Design your Ultimate Hatchback!

revka

to design your ultimate hatchback!

You can list a combination of features and options you've seen in other make/models..., or create a whole new list of your own.

Perhaps your ultimate hatch is already on the market, or even the one you're driving now! Tell us what the perfect hatch would be for you.... Who's game?

Thanks for your participation!

Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

hamproof

1. Offer it in 3 or 5 door configuration
2. All Wheel Drive
3. Xenon/HID
4. 6 speed/SMG
5. 240HP
6. "Premium" content (HomeLink/Lighted switches/soft touch plastic/moonroof/leather)
7. Side curtain and head airbags.
8. $22k (yeah, I'm wishing hard here)
9. Generally as reliable as "Honda"

VW Golf R32 comes close but some will say VW is not reliable. Any takers? Of course 17" rims and summer tires w/ 3 spoke steering wheel standard.

qbrozen

Alfa 147

npaladin2000

-3 or 5 door
-RWD w/traction and stability control
-6 speed SMG (BMW style with automatic modes, in case I don't feel like shifting)
-Full set of airbags
-front and rear sunroof (maybe SCION CCX style?)
-cabin-adjustable suspension (throw a switch to go from soft ride to sport handling)
-Interior like a VW Polo (the latest one HAS to have the best interior I've ever seen pics of, even if they aren't yet available in the US)
-MP3 player
-alarm system (kinda necessary)
-gauge cluser mounted ABOVE THE STEERING WHEEL!! (I hate center-stack pods)
-4 cyl engine for fuel efficiency, but force feed the sucker, or let BMW make it, or both (no 9000 RPM VVTI-L headache-inducers)
-Have it ACTUALLY ABLE TO CARRY CARGO!! After all, if the GTI, Civic Si, and MINI can do it....

No leather, no HomeLink, and the necessity of AWD is kinda iffy. Lighted switches would be nice, but not critical.

huntzinger

What I'd be happy with would be essentially a modernization of the pre-1990 Audi Coupe GT or VW Quantum Hatchback, with a few additional tweeks here or there. A modern equivalent would probably be the 2002 Audi S3 or BMW 325ti (Europe only hatchbacks), with the following elements of emphasis.

1. Add ~15" to the length. Europe may need stubby little urban cars, but for the USA, we need to make sure that the car has a solid amount of rear seat legroom (and roofline) to make its back seat actually usable by adults, as well as a healthy trunk. For the latter, I'd say making as deep as a VW Sirocco 2 (production years 1983-1988) and 20 cubic feet should be the target value...this will be roughly an 8-12" increase.

2. Make sure the engine's not an embarrassment. The horsepower level's not usually the problem, but the lack of low end torque was the mistake made by BMW with their 1995-98 318ti. Figure this to mean dropping in at least a 328i motor.

3. While we're working on the motor, let's check the compression so that it doesn't have to run on Premium. Afterall, a hatch is philosophically supposed to retain some level of day to day practicality. Similarly, it should be reasonably be expected to break 30mpg on the highway through the appropriate top gear selection.

4. For poor weather driving, AWD isn't an absolute necessity, so long as it has a posi-rear differential included in its standard equipment. Let me emphasise that electronic "Traction Control" is not a satisfactory alternative to a real differential.

5. All of the modern electronic gizmo's and basic luxury items - - but let's include dashboard override switches for the gizmo's too, for those occasions when we know that we're better off without them, or when Club Racing rules require them to not be used in competition.

6. Finally, hatchback practicality also include the pragmatics of value. So it needs to be delivered at a reasonable price. Based on a basic template of the MB C230K and BMW Ti, this car should retail out at around ~$30K and be easily recognized as having sufficient content to be worth that much.

-hh

npaladin2000

It would suck if it did. This is a place where we can really be creative about the cars we'd like to drive. And one never knows if a car company might be watching...

orangelebaron

This may be a multiple post after what I stated in Mazda 6 hatchback.
It should be the size of a Saab 9-3.
Must have all the Euro-standard safety features such as:
Folding side mirrors (heated of course)
Repeat turn signals for added lane change safety.
Real rear seat head rests.
Active front head restraints.
Super comfortable seats that will hold me in place
in 60 mph off ramps.
6 speed gearbox
High fuel economy with either a hybrid or diesel powerplant that also has a nice amount of torque.
Front passenger seat should fold flat for that maybe chance I will transport a ladder or shelves.
It should have sleek styling and come in a distinctive color such as copper, yellow gold or ice green
Lots of cubbies and arm rests made of vinyl...NOT cloth!
Lights on insides of doors
Full size spare
Sequential, fiber optic taillights
large roof panel that slides open
8 mph bumpers that have the color in them... so they don't scratch
OK... plastic body panels too
Reliable and and easy to fix
under $25000

I can dream... can't I?

big_guy

Mazda 6 MPS . . . in hatchback form.

2.3L, 4 cyl turbo charged engine
280 HP/ 266 lb-ft
All Wheel Drive
6-speed manual tranny
safety airbags all round
sweet looking

mikus

I will base my "ultimate" hatchback on Toyota Matrix, because it is the closest to my understanding of properly designed car.

1. Driver-oriented pilot-style dashboard with soft plastic (not just soft-look!) Take current BMW, SAAB or Volvo as an example. And do not say it is outdated.
2. No faux anything. Especially faux carbon, aluminum or crome. No real crome, too. I can take either anodized aluminum (real!) or titanium (absolutely unnecessary inside cabin). No flashy stuff. No shiny Pontiac-style gauges. Should be simple, classy and modest.
3. FWD and AWD versions.
4. Any engine with any gearbox and any trim level. No stupid compulsory plastic stuff all around only because it is sporty. No only auto because it is AWD.
5. Drop old-fashioned autobox. Either manual or CVT. If tight on money, then CVT only with manual mode (real one, so "3" means third gear only, not 1,2 or 3)
6. Easy to fold-flat trunk with durable plastic lining. See Matrix -- the best trunk ever. I want to change nothing. But I do not care much about separately opened rear window.
7. Full-size spare for those who would like one, or slim-size for city guys.
8. Availability of: black/gray non-painted scratch-resistant bumpers, non-painted door handles, mirrors. No crome outside. For _any_ trim. I want to be able to get the most powerful sporty version with big wheels and black bumpers. Why not?
9. Rear sprinkler is a must! Along with wiper.
10. Headlight adjusters (like in Europe) is a must.
11. Xenon option.
12. Side blinkers on fenders.
13. No ugly separate side markers (see Protege5 or even Impreza, ugh!)
14. Powerful inline 4. I do not live V engines, they are complex and heavy. So, 2.0 to 2.3 would be a nice range. Also, smaller displacement engine must have VTEC/VVTi version for fighter pilots with wider usable range, say from 5000 to 8500. Diesel also should be included. So far, 4 engines: 2.0 (maybe GDI) "economy", 2.0 (VTEC) "sportivo", 2.3 (long stroke) "torquey" and 2.x turbo diesel "ultra-frugal".
15. ABS probably should be a must, but Traction Control or ESP do not. All electronic helpers should be able to be turned off -- except ABS.
16. 5-door version is a must and should have all the amenities as 3-door. Ford SVT is a good example.
17. Should have at least (at least!!!) 30mpg in city and 35-38mpg on highway.
18. And the biggest thing: modern production site, so anyone can really build a car for his own taste, using the common parts bin. And more colors.
19. Ability to have wiring only for stereo, or wiring and speakers (without head unit).

revka

It's too soon to be archiving this discussion. ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

npaladin2000

Unfortunately, my heart isn't in it....seems like no one in Europe wants to import a decently priced hatch here, and the Japanese seem to be giving up on hatches here.

The fact that we're not going to be getting the true BMW 1-series cars or the new VW Golfs is a bit of a blow.

qbrozen

Not Mazda, apparently.

oh, yeah, and not Honda.

uh... and not Toyota...

what japanese manufacturers are we talking about?

npaladin2000

Honda. No standard Civic or Accord hatch..the only hatch they sell here is the Civic Si. It's EXTREMELY niche.

Toyota, no Camry hatch. THEIR only hatch is the torqueless Matrix, which is pushing wagon territory. If only Pontiac would shove an Ecotec down the throat of the Vibe version....

Nissan, no hatches whatsoever.

Mazda and Mitsubishi are the only ones coming with hatches (Mitsu's Lancer sportback and the Mazda line) so they're the only odd ducks (Suzuki's an odd duck too, but the Aerio is odd anyway...heh). Mazda's 6 series hatch has yet to appear though...besides, there isn't a Mazda dealer within 100 miles of me.

The Mitsu might be interesting...Lancer is a nice platform. But I'd like to have a hatch with the quality of a Honda or Nissan.

qbrozen

But Honda does have a hatch regardless. The only thing that really keeps it from being a big seller is the lack of automatic.

The Toyota I was actually referring to is the Prius hatch.

npaladin2000

In YOUR opinion the only thing that keeps it from being a big seller is the lack of an automatic. That certainly hurts it, but there's the other fact that it's one of the more expensive Civic models, and is intended only to fill their "hot hatch" niche, and not intended to be a big seller or a normal model at all. Remember, Honda wants hatch/wagon shoppers to go buy the CR-V.

I'll give ya the Prius, even though that's kind of a niche vehicle too. But at least they designed it as a hatch, and not a sedan. It's still a little expensive, but where I wouldn't even have bothered looking at the old Prius, the new one is somewhat interesting.

qbrozen

of course its my opinion and a total theory since it doesn't exist in that form.

Oh, so you're looking for a CHEAP hatch? There is always the Hyundai Accent.

npaladin2000

Well, I think under $20k is reasonable for a decent car. Problem is, most car companies don't seem to agree, not with all the "Great deal at only $30k!" commercials that have been on lately...heh.

Accent's getting replaced soon, from what I understand...next couple of years or so. My mother has one....it handles pretty nice, but the engine runs out of breath after about 45 MPH or so, it seems. A little more horsepower, and the power/weight ratio would be pretty good. That and the pitiful armrest were my only problems with it...it's not a bad design.

qbrozen

interesting to hear some positive comments on the Accent. I never drove one but just assumed it would be a powerless tin can. Nice to hear that $10K might still actually buy something livable these days.

of course, i'd go used market and only spend a few grand on one with low miles, but that's another story.

npaladin2000

Actually, that's why Hyundai resale value is so low...if you buy one used, you don't get that 100k powertrain warranty.

I still keep thinking an Accent with the 2.0 Beta engine would make a heck of a pocket rocket...assuming that engine would FIT under the hood. And some ABS would be nice, though it's not critical.

I was surprised myself...I had to drive it when my car was in the shop for a couple days. As far as handling goes, I was preasantly surprised. Handling seemed pretty tight, and it seemed to have enough low-end grunt (though I was in the car by myself, so who knows what happens when you put something else in the car). And if you'd like another little shock, I was driving one with a slushbox.

bullmand

Ladies and gentlemen,
I have created a petition that I intend to send to BMW of North America. I am attempting to get them to understand that there is a market for hatchback, 4 cylinder, and diesel BMWs here in North America. Please sign it if you would like to see a larger variety of BMW models available here. Please encourage friends and family to sign it also.
Thank you,
David Bullman

http://www.petitiononline.com/bull2003/petition.html

vocus

Cross the functionality and room of a Chrysler PT Cruiser with the power of a 1.8T Jetta, and the luxury and safety features of a Mercedes C230.

I don't ask for too much, eh?

mikus

Modern European diesels do not take american high-sulphur diesel fuel.

Put 2.0 into Matrix, and it will be the best "short hatchback" ever. Well, Mazda3 seems promising. Mazda6 will be the only "long hatchback" now, when Saab gave up hatchbacks. Mazda also has Miata (though aging) and RX8. Zoom-zoom

qbrozen

Saab has been showing a new 9-3 hatchback/wagon design and rumors are it will be built.

lawman1967

Well I really like the Mercedes C230 Sport Coupe, but that is out of my price range.

I just bought a 2003 Mazda Protege DX (base) sedan, and would definitely have bought a hatchback had one been available. Just as the Protege is two generations evolution of the 1990-1994 Protege and the 3 is another generation still, I would have loved a 1999-2003 323, improved along the same lines as the sedan.

The Mazda 3 is nice, but the hatchbacks are all loaded 5 doors with all the luxo-stuff and the big engine. What I would like is a two door hatchback version with the smaller 2.0 liter, big enough tires and a firm suspension, at a price of about $13000 with AC.

jchan2

I want.....
5 door configuration
leather seats
hybrid
Bluetooth/Smart Start/Navigation System/ Power Sunroof
Automatic Climate Control
Power Liftgate
Alloy Wheels
Decent Warranty
All for $26K (wishful)
The Toyota Prius comes close, but I want factory leather and that Power Liftgate. I'll compromise though and I'm thinking whether to line up at the dealer and give them my order.To keep prices affordable, maybe I'll need to not order a few items listed.

conall

How about the Lancia Delta Integrale!? Not exactly a great passenger car, but definitely one of the ultimate hatchbacks. Unfortunately not sold in the U.S. Last model was a '94. Rival to the Audi Quattro after '85, it owes its existence to the competition Audi brought to offroad rallye racing.

tom_slick

Something like a Scion xA (i.e. well-equipped, stylish, cheap), but with a 2.0 liter engine and about a foot longer (for a bigger trunk) would be about perfect. And oh yeah, cruise control.

Matrix would almost be it if the base model was equippped like the Scion, had a better engine than the 1.8, and got rid of the 'funky' dashboard/controls. Ew.

dhanley

If you could have made my old saab 900 turbo move like my 328i, you'd be doing pretty good.

Toss in bmw's 3.0L diesel and you're doing REALLY good. You could do donuts while burning soybean oil.

Of course, looking just now i spy the c320 sport coupe. It doesn't look too bad. The 20/26 mpg though, is not that great.

dave

drdarylj

My ulitmate hatch is as follows:

(whisper this just loudly enough so that Mike Mauer [spelling??] at Saab hears this). "I want a 3-door version of the Saab 9-3x SportHatch."

3-doors 'cause I'm big and need a long side door.
4-wheel drive.
Plenty of low end torque/high end pep.
Ergonomic interior to rival any Honda product.
Subwoofer standard....yes I'm an audiophile.
Soft-touch leather.
No shiny,plasticky dashboard.
Standard cooler in the back
6-speed stick
Sport suspension/wheels/all-season tyres.
Durable as can be.
Glance'n'go dash/instrument center stack.

In other words, a thoroughly modern Volvo P1800 with all the Swedish blessings mixed with the best Japan offers and sold to this American. I love to drive; I love to look good; and sometimes I have to haul stuff. And no, I don't want an SUV, pickup, or another minivan. 90% of my time in it would be commuting, 5% hauling, and 5% playing.

If anyone is up to the task, it's Saab.

But, that is just a pipe dream. But that's what this thread is, isn't it?? :-)))

Kindly,
Dr. Daryl

dhanley

The 9-3 sporthatch looks REALLY cool. 250hp, 260lb-ft. 15% better fuel economy. Glass roof, integrated bike carrier. I worry about the expense of all those bells and whistles i don't need ( like a DVD player, camcorder, and hydraulic rear gate ). But it looks good.

A mercedes sport copue with their diesel v6 wouldn't be bad either.

qbrozen

what is the 9-3 sporthatch? where can i read about this?

dhanley

go to

http://www2.saabusa.com/concepts/

and look at the lower right hand corner.

drdarylj

Sorry, I added an "x" inadvertantly. Although I like the 9-x, the 9-3x to me looks rather so-so even though the general idea of the vehicle is great.

I've admired the P-1800 for decades but am simply too tall to ever have a chance of fitting. I think Saab could be on to something successful w/ the SportHatch if they play the game right.

I also like the 3-door Hatch that is drawn in one of the recent European Car magazines. It's included in the article on the SportHatch for visual interest only but that little car could be pretty neat too. One glance and you know it's a Saab yet it's very elegant too.

Dr. Daryl

qbrozen

thanks for the link.

the x looks ok, but the sport hatch seems rather bland and just like a blending of other wagons that are already out there (lexus sportcross and the existing saab wagon) and ones on the way (new Legacy). the pics just don't excite me. but we'll see when it is available in person.

mad6owner

Hi new to edmunds but was interested in this discussion. Not to many people now about the mazda cosmo. Rare and very fast. It did come in a hatchback and was made in mid to late 70's. came with a rotary engine that redlined a 8 thousand rpm's. but could not blow. (my dad said he tried). but anyways, a 76 mazda cosmo with complete side to side airbags complete carbon fiber interior 18 inch spinners complete sniper body kit with wide body included. house of color paint with ghost flames. I think this would be the perfect hatchback even though it isnt the newer style of car. look into this car but dont expect to find one like i said very rare. and dont let the year of make fool you this car will smoke the piss out of your normal v6 turbo. but dont take it from me do your own research. please reply if anyone else has heard of this car

gandrigo

I thought the cosmo came as a 2 door coupe, and if memory serves I don't think it had much more than 120hp. if you have links to any pics or info, i'd like to see it.

conall

There is some info on the '68 Cosmo at the following link. This particular year, the sport model produced 130hp.: http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=94600

creakid1

I've only seen the '70's Cosmo coupe.

muffin_man

There are already too many overloaded hatchbacks out there. Make this hatchback light - in the spirit of the 89-94 Suzuki Swift GT or even the original Mini. By the way, it has to be a 3-door.

This needs to be a cheap car, light and great handling, no leather, no dual climate controls, heck, toss the power windows.

The weight goal should be 2200 pounds, with a horsepower goal of about 140. The engine should be small and lightweight to keep the car balanced, and improve fuel economy.

There must be a modern version of the Swift GT's 1.3 liter (g13b) engine out there. I'm sure Suzuki could make a car like this overnight, if they don't have one in Japan already.

I would like to see a k-car class in America. (650cc cars)

jchan2

make a hatchback version of today's Saab 9-3, toss in a light pressure turbocharged version of the Malibu's 3.5L, retune it for 255 horsepower, price it at $35,000 well equipped with two rows of seats and a very small third row. There we go. My hatchback.

conall

Fit the 2.4l turbo from the Mazdaspeed 6 into the Mazda 3 hatchback, give it four-wheel drive (like the Mazdaspeed 6) and maybe the 6-speed manual gearbox, also. Or is Mazda already considering that for the future, anyway?!

muffin_man

That sounds more like a big wagon than a hatchback - three rows of seats? I like the Saab idea, but I would rather bring back the 900 as an entry level Saab - skip the fancy amenities, and sell it for $20-25k. Make it as a coupe or convertible only, lightweight, great handling. Make it a _real_ Saab, and have it compete with the RSX.

I would choose to emulate the early 80s 900, maybe 1982.

That would be cool.

jojojo

remember when the difference between a hatchback and a wagon was that the hatchback had a lip like a trunk? i havent actually looked at any recent model hatchbacks but it seems that the mfg's have wisely gotten rid of the lip.

my ideal hatchback / mini wagon would be the return of the honda civic wagon. it was the best car ever conceived. i am simply disgusted with honda for making only large cars. i had hoped that the crv or the element would be the replacement for the civic wagon oh but not so. this would be an entry level car, 3 door, fast, reliable, all the features of the civic wagon.. seats that fold flat. durable.

saaboy

That's a GREAT idea. I own a 1986 900s myself... If only SAAB had more people like jchan2 working for them.

tiger10

i can show you a hatchback if you follow these directions:
1:Go to Hyundai.com
2:choose the country India
3:you will be in website of the Indian Hyundai and now select the car called Santro.
4:it might be the hatchback for some people.

aeroluvr

Bring back one very similar to Nissan 240SX..about 1993 version, perhaps a bit more power in the engine and a few added "newer" technologies and you'd have the perfect hatchback...at least I would LOL.

jchan2

I'm a finance guy though. But I wouldn't mind working for Saab.

Neither would my thirteen year old son.

The idea of a stripper base model 900 sounds interesting.

Why not call it the 9-2 though?

kurtamaxxxguy

Audi A3 3.2 Quattro, but with:

1. V6 engine with direct fuel injection
2. Touring, not sports, suspension
3. Higher profile tires to handle bad roads
4. Forged aluminum wheels (17" is just fine)
5. Narrower interior center console for more leg room
6. Longer service hours from Audi dealers

Maybe I've described a Toyota '06 RAVE4 here?

chrisducati

Sounds like everyone has a different idea!
I want something stylish, yet practical, room for 4 adults. European details and options. Go to their sites and many of them offer huge range of options and ways to make the cars personal. I hate the US way of selling cars. no choice other than color and maybe just maybe you can chose between two different color interiors. you want that one option, well you have to get the whole package to get that. sorry i digress. Power would be a 150 hp/300 ft/lb diesel that got 40 mpg. It would look something like this styling wise.

tsgeisel

I've got a Hyundai Elantra hatchback. The similarities in styling to the 9-3 are striking.

So is the price difference.

cjshow

The closest I've seen to my ultimate hatchback is the Nissan Moco, available overseas and made by Suzuki. It is very tiny four door that comes is great colors inside and out. In a couple reviews I've read that mentioned it (through a global nissan party of sorts) the reviewers (men) said it was a chick's car and completely ingnored it. Hello, women are 50% of the buying population! Ah, well. They were biased because the test car was pink, I bet.

My ultimate hatchback will have:
*Sub- to compact exterior
*Mid-sized interior
*Plush seats that are comfy on long trips and don't make your bum numb.
*Heated folding power mirrors with turn signal
*Oversized rearview mirror and/or excellent rear visibility
*Fold flat seats (including passenger) and level load floor
*wide, low loading opening with scratch guards
*Under seat storage
*easy to read guages and stereo controls
*a Manual that's not written for dummies who can't buckle their seat belt properly nor for tuners who already know where to put the fluids but for someone in between (aka me)
*Latch system (might have kids one of these days)
*powerful a/c and heat
*stain-resistant carpeting and seat cloth
*snazzy colors for exterior (keep black, white, silver and red, but add more interesting choices like turquoise, sage green, butter yellow, and metallic pearl options).
*heat-resistant interior materials and colors (ban black interiors! Bring on the beige!) Moco is available in either teal or apricot interior.
*tight turning circle
*great gas milage, of course (like 40-50 mpg) or biodiesel
*self-cleaning every time it rains, instead of looking dirtier (how is it possible, anyway?)
*Occasional seating for 6 would be nice

Search for pics of the Moco on the web. I know it looks like a toy car, but that's part of the appeal, mind you! If I got one I'd like it to be 50-75% bigger but still retain the cute factor.