Unrepairable Foul Emission Oder In New Camry

john353john353 Member Posts: 3
edited March 2014 in Toyota
After extensive research, we purchased a new 2002 loaded Camry XLE in Oct. 2001 thinking it was a solid buy. From the beginning, we began to experience a foul intermittent "rotten egg" smell entering the cabin. The smell can be so intense that the windows must be opened. We have talked to the dealer repeatedly and the district service manager finally even inspected the vehicle. Their response is that the emissions settings are correct and that there is no solution. They maintain that it is likely caused by variation in gasoline quality. (We only use Amoco or Shell but this has made no difference.) My wife and I have finally figured out that when the smell starts (which seems to be at least once every outing now) we need to switch to inside air to stop it immediately. The problem is the windows then begin to fog up quickly. Our disappointment and frustration with Toyota is obviously great. Ironically,I had previously been a great Toyota fan having studied their manufacturing methods. We are desperate at this point and must decide whether to get rid of it. Has anybody else heard of this problem or know why Toyota will refuses to remedity it? Any suggstions would be very greatly appreciated. Thanks.

PS: We have also experienced several other so far less serious but surprising defects.+

Comments

  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    engine management system problem, not a fuel problem.

    Although i don't see this very often with Camrys, I see this frequently in other vehicle like Subarus and Fords (somewhat similar systems).

    Contact an attorney if they won't repair the problem, but even though it bugs you, take my advice and don't be too dramatic. I deal with issues like this every day and the drama factor will really hurt your chances of recovery.
  • behhppbehhpp Member Posts: 51
    I have found the same odor in our new Corolla. I get the same runaround from Toyota, that the problem is with the gas, and that the odor is a "a sign the catalytic converter is working properly."

    I have read that US gas is very high in sulfur levels as compared to gas sold in Japan. This is especially true with 87 octane. The 89 octane has a lower level of sulfur. (see message 2588 on the "Toyota Corolla" topic. Toyota maybe has just not designed their system to accomadate high sulfer levels of the US gas.

    I am going to try the 89 octane and see if it helps, but had I known I was going to have this problem I would have never bought the car. I have been driving around the same way as you, windows up and the inside air recirculation running all the time.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    calibration. Take it back in, be nice, but don't take any excuses, either.
  • john353john353 Member Posts: 3
    Thank you for your recommendations. What are the PCM/ECM and are they difficult to repair/adjust? Why do you think Toyota would be so reluctant to address? They have repaired an array of other issues very willingly. Thanks!
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    some use an Engine Control Module (ECM) and some use both and then some other controls.

    The PCM/ECM can be programmed, to a certain extent and at times when these modules aren't adjusting themselves like they should, they need to be overridden and reprogrammed. Many techs call this "flashing" a PCM since they kill the memory and reinstall what the module should be thinking.

    Most poor idle, transmission shifting and foul smell conditions are caused by poor PCM calibration.
  • dcmikedcmike Member Posts: 53
    I too purchased a 2002 V6 XLE and that smell drives me crazy. In my car it seems to happen each time I have to increase my speed to pass or merge. Pretty disappointing as this is my first time straying away from Honda. Also getting tired of the various squeaks and rattles present in the cabin.
  • behhppbehhpp Member Posts: 51
    Thanks for the info Zues. I have had two different dealers tell me that southeast Toyota is telling them that the problem is the gas, but I think I will try again and tell them what you have suggested.
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    They even put out a TSB. Its a common discussion topic between Saab owners.

    The concensus is that it is caused by high sulfur content in gasoline. This is especially noticeable in winter and in the midwest where fuel formulations change as cold weather arrives.

    If a PCM adjustment can fix the problem, great. But every Saab owner I know of just lives with the issue. Saab's emissions control system is the same worldwide and is very sophisticated but obviously is not customized for the US market.

    Changing octane won't help. Sometimes changing brands does help. Reformulating gas helps also. And sometimes there's nothing you can do about it.

    I wonder how an attorney can help prevent sulfur smells from an emission system?
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    after all, it's the way the sensors are reading the fuel and exhaust samples, but like Bret said, octane isn't the answer.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    seriously, and I mean that sincerely, insert your own punch line here.

    but in fact, folks, they have a special way of 'splainin to the dealers that they need to look at their procedures book and dust off the four-pager on how to flash memory using new parameters they get from the automaker's support web site.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    all it takes is a flash, usually.
  • behhppbehhpp Member Posts: 51
    The site I refered to above is slow to download, but it has a link to an article that is written by some Toyota enginneers studying the effects of high sulfur levels on piston ring wear. They note that US premium gas has a lower sulfur level than does the regular grade. Octane change by itself won't cure the sulfur odor problem, but I am hoping that if indeed there is less sulfur in the premium grade that the odor will lessen. I bet the SAAB owners have already tried changing gas though.

    I am not sure it will help, and really don't like the extra expense of premium gas even if it does help.

    In any event, I will see if my dealer's mechanics can fix it when I show them the information you guys have provided. Thanks.
  • behhppbehhpp Member Posts: 51
    The site I referred to above is slow to down load, but it has a link to an article that is written by some Toyota engineers studying the effects of high sulfur levels on piston ring wear. They note that US premium gas has a lower sulfur level than does the regular grade. Octane change by itself won't cure the sulfur odor problem, but I am hoping that if indeed there is less sulfur in the premium grade that the odor will lessen. I bet the SAAB owners have already tried changing gas though.

    I am not sure it will help, and really don't like the extra expense of premium gas even if it does help.

    In any event, I will see if my dealer's mechanics can fix it when I show them the information you guys have provided. Thanks.
  • astorey1astorey1 Member Posts: 41
    on three separate occasions smelled a "rotten egg" odor. I came to the board tonight and saw this post and thought I would comment on it as well. I have driven the car quite a bit since Wednesday and today was the first time that the smell appeared. I did notice that every time I smelled it the heater was on low. I would then turn it off and would not smell it again. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    which depending on the way the wind is blowing is not the end of the world. standing in traffic, you're always sniffing everybody else's tailpipe.

    a brand-new automobile (have fun with it!) will also be burning paint, dressing wax, little critters that hid in the car during shipping, etc. as the engine and exhaust system heats up. it will take a couple weeks to burn off all the protectants and stuff that weren't detailed away by the brushless car wash at the dealer prep department. that can be a fooler as well.

    if you can cup your hand around the exhaust stream with the car idling and parking brake on, bring it up to your nose, and not keel over from the smell of rotten egg, it might not be from combustion, but from other new-car sources. a real issue with the engine computer letting gas into the catalytic will knock down bystanders at the bus benches. it's hard to miss the bad cases.

    some unrepentant techs may point out that putting an emissions wand in the tailpipe and punching the standard EPA idle test will find excess H2S emissions real fast, as well as unburned HC. but since nobody appears to want to fix the stinkers, bet they don't volunteer to sniff the tailpipe for you, either.
  • kst8wctkst8wct Member Posts: 1
    I bought a loaded '02 xlev6 last feb. After a couple days I noticed the stench upon acceleration. The dealer...Anderson Toyota of Rockford, said that it was just new car smell, burning the shipping coatings, etc.
    The next time I went in, with 6,000 miles, still stinking. They said to try premium gas. They said it's the sophisticated catalytic converter. I mentioned that the mfr. recommends regular gas and now saying that premium is required to eliminate the rotten egg smell would be considered bait and switch by some.
    I'm glad I found this msg board and this problem. The dealer made it sound like I was the only person who ever reported the problem.
    Now to see what they can do. I will ask them to sniff the exhaust...and videotape their reactions :)
    I wonder why the car magazines haven't reported the stink? You'd think it would crop up since they tend to put the car through its paces during testing. Something Toyota is holding out on us? Wouldn't surprise me considering the horror stories I've read about their customer service.
    I guess that's the double edged sword...buy a reliable car and deal with jerks on the few problems it has or buy a detroit car and spend your time asking for rides while it's in the shop.
  • astorey1astorey1 Member Posts: 41
    Well, thankfully I have not smelled it since last Saturday and that was the only time that I have(3 times that day) and I have used the heater since then. Hopefully, whatever it is will not return that horrible odor to my car!
  • xonxon Member Posts: 9
    I've had my 6 cyl '02 Camry LE for 9 months, and I've had that persistant rotten egg smell when accelerating from day one. I have 18,500 miles, and it still stinks when I accelerate. It has not gone away, and I've tried various brands of gasoline: Shell, Exxon, Chevron. . etc. and different octane levels and NOTHING works. My dealer also says they haven't had any complaints, and act like I'm the only one with the problem. The smell is driving me crazy, too. I hope it isn't harmful.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    it's an engine management issue that wanna-be technicians can't figure out - they need to reprogram your PCM.
  • john353john353 Member Posts: 3
    I am going in to discuss with my dealer in about an hour for the last time.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Look at Honda, and Nissan - also many complaints about sulfur smell.
  • eth_regeth_reg Member Posts: 2
    I purchased a loaded 2002 XLE V6 Camry January 2002. I started noticing the foul smell soon after. When I took it to the dealer, they ran an emission check and told me everything checked out fine. I still had the problem. The dealer informed me that it is a gas problem and instructed me to switch brands. I did for the next several months. The dealer checked & there were no bulletins on it. I am going to the dealer this Thursday (again) to discuss it with a regional rep. I will take the suggestion of the PCM flash and reprogram with me. I like the camry, just not the smell...It is sickening. If I had known about this smell, I wouldn't have purchased the car.
  • eth_regeth_reg Member Posts: 2
    Well, I spoke with Toyota's District F Services & Parts Mgr regarding the odor and he had the following to say:
    -> It is based upon the larger catalytic converter size (redesign by Toyota engineers to support better emissions) and upon the makeup of US fuel.
    -> There is no known repair for it.
    -> It is not considered by Toyota to be a defect.
    -> The sulfur smell is not dangerous.
    When I raised the suggested PCM/ECM calibration ("flashing"), he stated that it has nothing to do with it... and they weren't even going to try it.
    He just apologized and said there was nothing he could do. I informed him that I was dissatisfied with this response. He gave me Toyota's National Customer Service Assistance number, 1-800-331-4331. He said they weren't going to throw parts at the car to try to fix it, because it is not a problem to them.
    There are some things I can live with, but this smell is unbearable. With the small fortune I put into the camry, I expected better. I was thinking about purchasing another Toyota vehicle in the near future; however, I have decided against it in light of this experience. I'm going to call the number and inform them of the problem although I'm not holding my breath that a solution will be found.
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    and get all your stinky buddies to join you.
  • h109h109 Member Posts: 36
    have suggested. It seems to be working for some. BP is supposed to have the lowest sulphur levels in the US.

    And, I don't think anyone else (owners, dealers, mfr) have suggested any real solutions for this problem.

    Good luck to all.
  • behhppbehhpp Member Posts: 51
    I had the same response from my dealer. He hooked my car up to their computer, said it was functioning within "normal parameters," and that there was no reason to reset the computer if it was functioning properly.

    I have just tried premium gas, and it does take care of the problem, at least so far. Phillips 66 was what I tried, but I suspect other brands are lower in sulfur in the premium grades. Yes it is more bucks, but as you say, the smell makes the car unbearable.
  • chionechione Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I am so close to purchasing a used 2002 Camry. Now, I am very hesitant after seeing all the postings here on the foul smell. Are all of you driving automatic trasmissions? Do you know if the same smell applies to a manual transmission?
    Help!@!@!@$#$ ???
    Thanks again!!
  • h109h109 Member Posts: 36
    from my limited knowledge, I believe that this smell has nothing to do with transmission as it is a by-product of the burning fuel and the Cat.

    I can understand your predicament as I am also thinking of buying a used MPV. @!@!@$#$
    Just when I thought I found the right vehicle... :-(
  • jandk98jandk98 Member Posts: 20
    zueslewis (and others): I am planning on buying a new LE 4-cyl shortly, but now you've got me thinking... Two questions:

    1. You mention that a PCM/ECM re-program does the trick to get rid of the stink. Do you have any proof? Is there anyone reading this list who has had success with this method?

    2. How soon in the life of the car does the stink happen? Is it variable? Could I possibly detect it while test driving at the dealer?

    OK, overall there's more than 2 questions above, but I'd really like input from others on the topic. Thanks!
  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    Does this just apply to the 6 cylinder only? I have not heard complaints on the 4. I own a 2002 4cyl and can not figure out why anyone would want the 6. The 4 is a new design that is as quick/powerfull as my old Ford's 6. It gets better gas milage and allows you to use 87 octane. Plus...IT DOES NOT STINK! Also note that a NEW 6 is coming out soon. If it were me I'd wait for the new 6 or try the 4....there must be some status of owning a 6 I guess but who need that stink...go on Ebay and by some Camry Badging...stick the 6 badge on your 4....your friends will never know the difference!
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    I look at these cases every day. I can't cite specific case information due to current litigation, appeals, privacy, many reasons. Sorry.
  • friendly_jacekfriendly_jacek Member Posts: 96
    Where do you look at these cases everyday? Do you work at Toyota headquarters?
    For everybody else:
    Camry is not the only car with this problem. Check Corolla forums to see many people pissed also. Toyota will do nothing about it. Other brands are also affected occasionally (mostly imports but not only).
    Hopefully, the amount of sulfur in gas will gradually decrease in the next several years.
    One word of caution, the severe smell is sometimes associated with poor fuel efficiency and signifies rich fuel mixtures. So if it is very bad, get your car checked.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    I look at cases from every manufacturer. Lemon law, breach of warranty and dealer fraud cases.
  • behhppbehhpp Member Posts: 51
    Do you have a contact number or email address for NHSTA?
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    It's http://www.nhtsa.org

    Couldn't find that yourself??
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    on the occasion when fumbleheads like me forget to put web links in a place like this, or when the links are broken by software limiters and don't work, your friend is www.google.com. type in what you're looking for, and usually one of the top 10 entries will get you there. in this case, www.nhtsa.dot.gov was the top entry for a search on "nhtsa". do it in another window or another tab of your browser, and feel Godlike in your control of the world!

    well, at least feel happy you haven't lost your place in the original endeavor...
  • behhppbehhpp Member Posts: 51
    Made the mistake of typing in NHSTA into my search engine when I tried to find it a few days ago. Sorry to inconvenience you both.

    At any rate, my concern was entered, and hope to hear from them soon.
  • astorey1astorey1 Member Posts: 41
    So is there absolutely nothing that can be done about this? When I got my Camry on January 1st it did it produced this smell a few times in the first two weeks. It then stopped and hasn't done it again until this past weekend. Since Friday night it smelled like a rotten egg on three separate occasions. I've been paying attention to this thread but everyone that takes it to the dealership is told that there is nothing actually wrong with the car. So, my questions is so we just have to live with it?
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    by mounting a roof sign holder to the top, "Toyota makes illegally stinky cars and they don't fix them."

    more sociable at this point to try premium or any of the 2005-legal reduced sulfur gasolines that are in your area. if anybody has 'em, they're advertising it in some fashion like, "Clear Air Gas... the government demands it in 2005. Spilco has it now! Because our town's worth it."
  • astorey1astorey1 Member Posts: 41
    For those of you who have taken your car in to be looked at exactly what have they told you to do about it? My car had that smell a few times after I got it on January 1st and hasn't happened again until this past Friday night and it has done it 6 times since then. It grosses me out and I'm really aggrevated about it now. Why does Toyota say that it's not their fault and they can't fix it?
  • astorey1astorey1 Member Posts: 41
    One more thing...has anyone actually filed a complaint with the NHSTA? I went to their website and searched their complaints on the '03 Camry and there were not any regarding this.
  • behhppbehhpp Member Posts: 51
    I filed a complaint on my Corolla with the same smell. I have not heard anything from this complaint. I saw one other complaint on the Corolla when I searched complaints. What has Toyota said to me to do about it?? -- Drive it as is. Everything functioning as normal.
This discussion has been closed.