• mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    The P5s are holding their value more than the Proteges of the same year. I've seen this in other places too, not just Carmax. I have a feeling if you do the research, you'll find it's true. The difference in VALUE now between a Protege5 and a Protege ES of the same year is greater than when they were new. The Protege5 is holding its VALUE better.

    (Otherwise Carmax would've been asking more for the Protege, no?)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 202,975
    I agree.. and said exactly that.. I just don't think its $5K different. I wish I had bought one last year.... I could have that plasma TV right now.


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  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    we can't keep used P5's in stock. They do very well for us. I don't have any concrete stats but at our store they are holding value quite a bit better than Protege's.....there is a better pipeline of used Protege sedans, so that plays a role....I expect the MZ3 H/B to hold value better than the sedan for similar reasons.

    The P5 is one of my favorite Mazda's. Great car.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Yeah, VERY nice car. I had a P5 as a rental the first time my 3 went in (my MP3 player had finally arrived, and part of the purchase agreement was an install under a "we owe" with a rental provided).

    Likely the P5's higher value has 2 factors contributing to it: The fact that it was the highest-line model is one, and the fact that it's much more rare than the sedan versions is the other.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    Just for the record, I complained on this board about the AC issue having no idea that the A/C issue was already being discussed here and in the Problems board.

    I proposed a plan earlier to settle the dispute, whereby two owners (one with the problem and one without) get together for a testdrive. That way, the complainer could confirm "Wow, your AC works great!" and the other could admit "Geez, your AC is awful!"
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    No offence to anyone who may have a real and serious problem, but I wonder how much of this is differences in expectations as much as anything else.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    There is going to be a Special Edition version of the Mazda3s and 5door for 2005 called the performance enhancements but some really great features not available on the MZ3....I will post the details in the next few days.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Isn't SP23 the name of one of the Austrailian trims?
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Like the American "Focus SE SE" -- SE Sony Edition, SE Street Edition, and the SE xenon/stereo Mach(or Mark) Edition. It sure gets us "kids" excited.

    But it's the new ST that's tuned right, 'cause the Street Edition, which has Euro-spec suspension but American-spec steering, I test drove rode a little too firm while the steering is too light for the 16"s.

    The '05 ST comes w/ a newer-tuned steering & the SVT shocks/swaybars but w/ std model's springs.

    It's still too noisy for today's standard. You might as well check out this...
    creakid1 "Ford Focus 2005 release date" Sep 4, 2004 4:48am
    but can only dream, 'cause it's not coming to America!
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    The special Edition MZ3 will be in production from Dec-May and will be known as the SP23. Available in the 's' sedan and 5 door.

    It starts with a car with the Sport Pkg and Leather....then you add the SP23 features

    1. 17'' alloys with high gloss finish
    2. auto on/off headlights
    3. Rain sensing front wipers
    4. SP23 badging
    5. Carbon Gray Mica (only avail color)
    6. LED rear combo taillights (5 door only)
    7. Leather seats and door panels.(saddle brown or black)
    8. heated front seats
    9. pollen filter for a/c
    10. Bose 5000 series dig amp w/5 channels 7spkrs
    11. In dash 6 disc changer
    12. sirius compatible radio
    13. inst panel trim inserts
    14. steering wheel trim inserts

    Option pkgs...
    SP23 security pkg...
    --ABS w/ EBD
    --Dual seat mounted side airbags
    --side air curtains
    --Theft deterrent

    stand alone options

    Auto trans

    I only have draft/prelim pricing so I wont get into that yet....but it will be interesteing to see what y'all would pay for the SP23 pkg.

  • sschaffersschaffer Member Posts: 80
    Blose is enough to keep me away.

    Seriously, looks like a nice package but I won't be too sad to have missed it since it appears there's nothing in there that's gonna make it any faster or handle or brake any better than my regular S.

    Wonder if the LED taillights will swap out for the bulb type?
  • fowler3fowler3 Member Posts: 1,919
    I wouldn't pay extra for it. That charcoal color sounds like it will be as bad a black and the leather choices are too dark.

    What I really want is a HB with a good beige trim and 16" alloys.

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,124
    My wife and I recently bought a Tribute ES. I happened to comment on how I like the looks of the new 3's. The salesperson said they could not keep these on the lot. Inventories for the Mazda 3 moved very "quickly"... They would order and sometimes presell 3's. I don't know if this was all salesmen talk.. But then you have to ask why would he say this when I wasn't even buying a Mazda 3?.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    In the Twin Cities, two of the biggest Mazda dealers are advertising lots of 3's in stock--220+ for one, almost 200 for the other. So maybe it's a regional thing--or a low-volume dealer?
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    certain parts of the country sell alot more Mazda's than others. Just two of Mazda's regions (northeast and pacific) sell almost 70% of all mazda's sold in the US. Those two regions have the biggest shortage problem.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    Since those regions are where the bulk of the U.S. population is, wouldn't the same be true for most/all cars? Maybe these dealers in the Midwest should order fewer cars, balance supply and demand. Then Mazda could ship more cars to the states with the biggest demand.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    There are three states that control a big chunk of US auto sales. Calif, Texas and Florida. The amount of lost revenue related to the auto industry in FLA after the two hurricanes is stagering and will impact the entire economy. If NY stopped selling cars for a few weeks it would not have anywhere near the impact of Florida. Remember in many big urban areas a large number of people don't own cars NYC is a great example of this. The bulk of the best selling vehicles in the country (pick up trucks) are sold in the heart of america.
    P/U trucks don't sell as well in CT as in Iowa.

    you ask.....Maybe these dealers in the Midwest should order fewer cars, balance supply and demand. Then Mazda could ship more cars to the states with the biggest demand....

    Great theory but...How would you like to tell the dealer in Lincoln nebraska who just spent $4 million to get a Mazda franchise that he can't get what he earned because the dealers in CT have more demand for the product? If all the dealership were owned by the factory your idea may be possible...
  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,863
    Don't forget that in places like NY, MA, CT, and CA, "import" brands garner more than 50% of the sales.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Great point...I forgot about that. In CT it passed the 50% mark a few years ago.
  • ak_mazda3ak_mazda3 Member Posts: 1
    Got a new Mazda3 s, 5 spd, and really enjoying driving it. But my question is that when it's in neutral and at a stop, I can feel a slight "vibration" from the motor. It's slight but enough to be aware of it. I guess I didn't notice it as much on the test drive.

    Is that common with other 3's?
  • birdman579birdman579 Member Posts: 151
    I have the same car (s, 5-speed) and feel the same vibration. I assume its normal.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    My '90 3, I meant 323 Protege LX, got it, too, along w/ the supportive center stack that let's you brace your right knee/calve while cornering. & that's what Mazda's all about. ;-)
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    It's a good thing...lets you know the car is actually running. If the engine is too smooth, how do you know it's on? ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    I thought that's one of the uses for a tach.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    One of them true. The slight vibration is a backup, and for those who never look at the dash to find out how fast they're going. ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    At neutral and at at stop, you would be going, let's see... zero, is that right? ;-)

    I feel slighted now that my cars don't have this useful backup feature. I gotta get a Mazda3!
  • sschaffersschaffer Member Posts: 80
    Vibrates at idle less than any other 4 cyl car I've owned. I do get an occasional very slight almost imperceptible miss at idle, like one cylinder didn't fire one time, but only when it's cold or during warmup--first mile and a half or so, along with a tiny bit of lean surge under the same conditions. Once it's gone into closed-loop it seems to go away.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Gotta have a little life in a car. Don't want it to be to numb and clinical. No need to throw another mattress over the pea - enjoy the very slight hum of your engine. : ^ )
  • sschaffersschaffer Member Posts: 80
    I honestly don't see anything to be concerned about. My MZ3 at idle is so smooth and quiet it's just perceptible enough to let me know instinctively that it's running without having to look at the tach to make sure.

    Interesting related fact:

    As you probably know, on a hybrid the gas engine almost always quits when sitting at a stoplight, and initial takeoff is electric only. There is no engine noise or vibration at all while sitting at the light--dead silence.

    Toyota found in developing the Prius that this would often cause new, uninitiated drivers to reach down and turn the key to restart the car.

    As you know in the stoplight scenario there is no real reason for the electric motor to run, either.

    Toyota's solution to the problem of people reaching down to start the car because the engine died at the light was to build in artificial transmission creep. So if you're stopped at a light in a Prius and ease off the brake, the car creeps forward just like a normal car stopped in D.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    can be disabled by the driver in the next Mercedes S-class.
  • rinebirdrinebird Member Posts: 83
    Expectations no. I had my NEW Mazda 3 in for a warranty brake repair. I was given the same Mazda (different built date) as a loaner. MY car was built 3/04(poor AC) loaner 6/04 BETTER AC.
    not an expectation
  • sschaffersschaffer Member Posts: 80
    Ok, I've had my car a month now and have noticed one thing that's been touched on before regarding the AC.

    Some have reported that the outlet vent temp when using outside air and leaving the compressor off is significantly higher than the ambient outside air temperature.

    On my previous car, an 01 Nissan Sentra SE, I noticed this to be the case--at ambient temps in the mid 60s the air coming out of the vents with compressor off and fan on was about 10-15 degrees warmer.

    Having encountered this on Toyotas and fixed it by adjusting the heat damper door cable, I tried the same thing with the Sentra and it didn't change anything.

    In the last week or so our overnight temps have dropped to the point that it's in the mid-60s when I make my drive to work. Although I haven't actually stuck a thermometer in the vents I have noticed that the vent outlet temp on my Mazda 3 with compressor off is not nearly as warm as it was on the Sentra.

    This would lead me to think that there is something different about my car vs those who are reporting significant warming of outside air at mid-60s ambient temps, and that it could be as simple as adjustment of the heat damper door cable. I don't know how difficult it is to access this cable at whichever end the adjustment is possible or even if it's made in such a way that any adjustment is possible in the first place. My dash area is totally rattle free and I'm not about to start disassembly to try and find this since I don't need it anyway, so maybe someone ought to mention this to a dealer as a possible thing to look at and see if they can get them to at least check it.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    by observing the A/C's performance before the engine warms up!
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    After living with this major defect - that Mazda will not fix - for about 7 months I have lost all respect for the Mazda company.

    For whatever it is worth this is what I think.

    First the system is just plain weak - compared to every other car I have ever owned this is the worst AC.

    But I think the reason I seem to have a bigger issue than some is because I spend a fair amount of time stuck in stop and go (more stop sometimes than go) traffic.
    When at idle the vent temp goes up to 68 degrees, so when I am stuck in Houston traffic on a 90 degree day the inside of the car just becomes unbearable.

    I know that all auto AC systems have a performance drop while at idle - but 68 degrees is just plain not cold enough to do any good.

    My other vehicles - by comparison blow air at idle that is around 55-58 degrees. They also have a stronger fan - so they really pump out the air flow.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Sorry to hear this - but I can relate. I have an old Volvo that won't blow cold air when going in San Francisco that's a good portion of the time and we don't have near the heat Houston does.

    It's a bummer Mazda hasn't responded to this issue, there seem to be plenty of people across the various Mazda discussions that are experiencing this. Mazda had been developing a good reputation the past few years. It's a shame they are allowing something like this to linger.
  • barry42barry42 Member Posts: 64
    I have a Mazda3 HB for about 6 months now down here in Guatemala and you can imagine that an AC is important !! We never use outside air because it is so polluted !! We have no complaint with the AC -- not at a stop light, not going up a hill nor caught up in traffic !! The car is made to European standards and has a 1.6 L engine with an auto Tranny !!
  • barry42barry42 Member Posts: 64
    I forgot to mention -- I like the car so much that i am negotiating for a 3 sedan for my wife !!
  • kara15kara15 Member Posts: 1
    I have seen so many postings about the A/C in the 3 being weak. My car has a build date of 05/04. I live in Virginia where the days are often hot & humid, driving comfortably without A/C is not an option. I have not had a single problem with mine. In fact I have never turned the A/C past "2" on the setting dial. There have even been times when it gets quite chilly in the car even when it is set on "1". I occasionally have to turn it off to warm up a little. Did Mazda fix the problem or should I just consider myself lucky?
  • waygrabowwaygrabow Member Posts: 214
    My wife and I went for a trip last week. I filled the gas tank the day before leaving; got 33mpg around town. Then we drove to Durango. The trip was mainly on two-lane state highways twisting through the mountains with a couple 11,000 foot mountain passes thrown in. After staying in Durango for a few days, we had rolled up 427 miles so I refilled the car before leaving: 11.6 gallons; that is almost 37mpg. Max A/C was on 80% of the time, but it doesn't take much power for the limited cooling it produces. Coming back (different route) we only accumulated 365 miles; so I still have about a third of the gas tank full. The handling of this car is incredible for a mainstream compact; the "zoom zoom" is obvious. Big cars would pass us on the straight stretches going 85mph (in a 65 zone); then we would reach a twisty stretch of road through the mountains. Using the smooth, short-throw five-speed to keep the rpms up and the solid, flat-handling suspension to keep speed through the corners (with a touch of braking when needed), we ended up reeling in and passing most everything else in sight. With all the mountain curves and river canyons, we only had short stretches to do our passing, but the car is confidence-inspiring. The whole package worked together amazingly well for a $16K car. It would be a real thrill to do the same thing in an RX8, but the mileage wouldn't be nearly as good.
  • barry42barry42 Member Posts: 64
    I know how you feel !! I've had many similarly pleasant trips with my HB !! Now I will buy a sedan for my wife's daily driver !!Happy Trails !!

  • waygrabowwaygrabow Member Posts: 214
    We got back from our trip to Durango with the gas tank still 1/3 full, so I kept driving. Today, with 456 miles on the current tankfull, I decided to refill our Mazda 3S even though the gas tank didn't read empty yet. Continuing to add gas after the initial shutoff, I was able to put in 11.6 gallons. That is 39.3 mpg! So why was our milage better on the return trip from Durango? I didn't mention that on the trip out to Durango we got stopped by highway construction at Wolf Creek Pass and spent an hour waiting for our turn and then idling slowly through the one-lane construction bypass. We certainly didn't baby the car on our alternate route home, so better mileage is still possible.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Very good mpg for an S. Must be the manual transmission.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Did you have a tailwind??
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    And were you going downhill???
  • cdnp5cdnp5 Member Posts: 163
    On my last trip to Colorado I got my best mileage when I was starting to come home leaving from Fruita CO and heading east on I70. I found this strange as I thought it was all climbing up into the mountain passes until you get to Denver. Plus when going through the passes I would have to often downshift to keep the speed up as there were some quite steep sections. The good thing was I was never holding up traffic and hardly anybody was passing me so I felt the P5 did great at 9-11,000+feet even if it was a little winded with the lack of air. I'd imagine the Mz3 would perform a bit better with its extra hp/tq.

    So could it be that a car makes less hp at higher altitudes which in return will give you better mileage? I've always wondered this.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    The computer will lean out the fuel mixture at higher altitudes (reduce the gas delivered to the engine) to adjust for less Oxygen. It typically do this by reducing either the duration or stroke of the fuel injectors. This should result in about the same mileage at any altitude, but it's possible that there's a "sweet spot" at some altitude or under certain conditions. I would think that since the car was likely engineering at low altitude, this is where the best results would be, but you never know.
  • kmh2468kmh2468 Member Posts: 62
    Best I ever got was ~27 MPG but I do run with an auto. transmission.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    I got 30 on my auto tranny. I think the engine just does better when it's pushed hard.
  • waygrabowwaygrabow Member Posts: 214
    I also wonder what to attribute the good mileage too. It was a roundtrip at altitudes between 6,000 and 11,000 feet. I do think that manual transmissions are a better choice for smaller cars. Most of our speeds were between 40mph to 70mph. My wife drove part of the distance; some of her passing was more thrilling than mine. The WORST mileage we have had was 30mpg (first tank full). One occurance that made me initially look at buying a Mazda was when we were passed by a P5 last winter on I-70 in the mountains between Denver and Vail. I was driving our Audi A4 Quattro but elected not to try to keep up with its high speed. Was that you, cdnP5?
  • sschaffersschaffer Member Posts: 80
    Mine is definitely getting better mpg since I quit the "egg on the pedal" routine. The car just likes to go zoom-zoom, I guess.

    Seriously, I've driven a number of cars with instantaneous mpg readouts on their trip computers, most high end Toyotas have this and I work in a Toyota dealer shop and test drive a lot of them after working on them.

    The mpg dips to horrendously low numbers under acceleration, whether it's gentle or not so gentle, and goes way up during cruise. I think slow acceleration increases the amount of time the car's getting really poor mpg before levelling out at cruise whereas quicker speed up, short of out and out flooring it, gets one up to high mpg cruise sooner and wastes less gas.
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