• cdnp5cdnp5 Member Posts: 163
    My last two trips through/in Colorado where November 03 and April 04. If it had tinted windows, Ontario plates, bike rack and snow tires it could have been me. I rarely drive over 80mph (limit +5 in good weather) as I find I can achieve the best speed for mpg over long trips. Its funny though as every trip I get a snow storm. On the November 03 trip, one day I went from Great Sand Dunes NP to Mesa Verde NP and went from driving in perfect sunshine into a pretty big snowfall through the last pass before Mesa Verde (can't remember its name). On the April 04 trip it was when we started approaching Denver from the east. My speed went from 80mph down to 70 down to 60 and so on. We just saw more and more trucks/cars in the ditches. Through the mountains things moved slow (and for good reason) Once we got to Vail the sun came back out and things were good again.
    Next time I will wave HI on the way by, lol.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "So could it be that a car makes less hp at higher altitudes which in return will give you better mileage? I've always wondered this."

    When the air gets thinner, the engine is also producing less vacuum. So some energy is saved.
  • billherrmannbillherrmann Member Posts: 111
    Is there a substantial difference [improvement] in low end torque when comparing 2.3 vs 2.0. I haven't had a test drive opportunity yet. Thanks.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    that's the main reason.

    & w/ auto, the 2.0's wider-ratio gearing will only make it more obvious.

    But the 2.3's balance shafts should waste up to about 6 hp of energy.
  • sschaffersschaffer Member Posts: 80
    Where did you get this about balance shafts wasting 6hp?

    They don't remove the balance shafts for the dyno test to determine hp anyway, moot point even if credible.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "Where did you get this about balance shafts wasting 6hp?

    They don't remove the balance shafts for the dyno test to determine hp anyway, moot point even if credible."

    Someone posted 6hp gain w/ balance shafts removed on a 2.5 Altima engine a while ago when dyno tested.

    So why not just upgrade to a 6-cyl engine & forget about the balance shafts? Well, just check out the nose heaviness of the V6 on the Mazda6. CR found its handling less agile than the 4-cyl model even w/ the harsher-riding 17"-wheel upgrade.

    Only a RWD car w/ the front axle located far forward such as the BMW 3-series can afford to.

    But even the RWD Miata's engine compartment is kept under 2.0 maybe just to remain balance-shaft free.
  • billherrmannbillherrmann Member Posts: 111
    I'm still confused. Creakid, are you saying that the 2.0 gives BETTER low end punch than the 2.3 ?????
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Kara --

    Where are you in Virginia? I'm in Richmond and wouldn't mind comparing notes on dealers.

  • petpadpetpad Member Posts: 153
    I wish I had done 30 push-ups and 15 sit-ups after every single post... I might feel better about the time spent on the PC! Like this guy slamming PC's said, "So little is happening, I sometimes think of it as voluntary quadriplegia: you are just looking at this two-dimensional screen, staring at it for however many hours. And what you could be doing instead...."

    Hmm let me think...
    ... waxing my 3?
    ... vaccuuming the house? .nope...
    ... work a little? ... nah...
    ... bike ride... ? .. later...
    ... check my 9 other email accounts and 12 other car forums I belong to?... Now here something worth doing...


  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "I'm still confused. Creakid, are you saying that the 2.0 gives BETTER low end punch than the 2.3 ?????"

    No, 2.0's weaker low end becomes more obvious when combined w/ the auto's taller gearing.

    When compare 3 of the gas engines -- 1.6, 2.0 & 2.3 -- available for the Mazda3, the 2.0 got the least low-end-torque-bias tuning.

    But since the energy-wasting balance shafts are needed for the larger & thus more-vibrating 2.3, its overall output above the 2.0's may not be as dramatic as someone might expected.
  • sschaffersschaffer Member Posts: 80
    There really isn't too much difference in hp rating between the 2.0 and 2.3--148 vs 160hp.

    The 3 is a heavy little car though, something close to 2800 lbs vs 2500 for the typical new Corolla or Civic. It shows in the solid feel of the car--mine is 100% rattle and buzz free in 6 weeks of ownership. 87 thru 91 Camrys weighed about the same, had 130 hp on the 4 cyl. models.

    Consumer Reports, not a performance oriented bunch, got the 148hp 2.0 sedan to do 0-60 in 8.0 seconds with a stick, Car and Driver's 2.3 hatch took 7.7, not a huge difference really and the hatch is not hugely heavier.

    But 0-60 times on a car that will hit 60 at redline in 2nd gear are accomplished with high rpm horsepower, not low end torque. The engine with only 12 more peak hp but a more generous low end torque curve will handle an automatic a lot better and with either transmission will be more tractable and accellerate noticeably better in less than all-out situations.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Also, unlike the 2.3 auto, the 2.0 auto revs lower in top gear, etc.
  • ndahindahi Member Posts: 7
    The shafts do not waste 6 hp. They waste 3 hp. We removed the shafts on our project Sentra Spec V and did a dyno run and the power only increased by 3 hp.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Does the Sentra use a Mazda engine now?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,475
    That's funny.
  • thunderbirdthunderbird Member Posts: 26
    I was going to buy a mazda 3 or 6 but after reading the reviews of how mazda treats its customers and quality issues, I wanted to ask current owners at public places such as gas stations etc., how do you like your new cars and how has mazda treated you? I can't find any. I live in orange county, southern calif. I drive the freeways everyday and I don't see any 3's anywhere. Are these cars actually selling. Mazda is offering no rebates, no low financing, and no dealer discounts. It rates low on the JD Power survey for dealer satisfaction. Why buy?
  • barich1barich1 Member Posts: 143
    That's because most Mazda owners, such as myself, have no issues with Mazda's customer service or product quality. There is a very small, yet vocal, minority that complain (some rightfully so. Every manufacturer has the occasional lemon.). Check out the Honda and Toyota topics. You'll find plenty of complaints about bad transmissions and squeaks and rattles in the Accord forum (and how badly Honda treats their customers) and many complaints about engine sludge in the Toyota forums (and how badly Toyota treats their customers. Yet it is generally agreed that Toyotas and Hondas are dependable cars. Mazda is the same way.

    And the reason why you don't see many Mazdas is because they're a relatively small manufacturer. The 3 is not a very high production car, plus it's nearly brand new. That said, they've had to increase production because, despite the lack of rebates and special financing, 3s are flying off lots as fast as Mazda can get them there. That could be because it's the best car in its class, or it could be because there are lots of stupid people that buy overpriced, unreliable cars from a company with poor customer service. Hmm, I wonder which it is.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "I can't find any. I live in orange county, southern calif."

    I live in S Cal & there's also hardly any Le Sabre or Thunderbird. Why? Maybe these superficial S Californians only go for the Honda/Acura Toyota/Lexus badges despite the Japanese-built Mazda's decent reliability.

    No, seriously, Mazda's tend to produce just a tad too much road/tire noise in the long & tedious drives on S California's noisy-surface concrete fwys. & all my local Mazda dealers kept disappearing since '90 -- Torrance, Hawthorne, Garden Grove, Carson... 1/2 of all dealers/service I experimented were excellent, the others sucked real bad.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    They're also going to be slightly more rare in CARB states, since they only make a certain number, and you can ONLY buy the CARB-compliant cars in CARB states. As bad as the shortage is, in CARB states like CA and NY, the 3 seems to be in even shorter supply. I don't know what the actual production mix is, however.
  • kmh2468kmh2468 Member Posts: 62
    Mazda3s are popping up everywhere in the Alamo City (San Antonio). I see at least 1-2 every day and most have new tags on them. But I seem to see more "i" models than the "s" versions and mostly sedans. But they're definitely getting more popular 'round here.
  • cooljwcooljw Member Posts: 47
    I live in San Diego and recently visited a Mazda dealer here. The Mazda 3 sedans are selling very well and going fast, but the hatchbacks are not as popular. Mazda started running a commercial for the 3, which should create more buzz and make the cars more popular as the 2005s start arriving at dealerships.
  • mibomanmiboman Member Posts: 13
    I also live in the SoCal area (live in San Bernadino Co and work in Orange Co) and you are correct about the numbers of 3's that you see. I see more Scions and Prius's than 3's, but the number of 3's is increasing. My own opinion is that Mazdas are slow to develop a critical mass here. It was a long time before I saw many of the Protege5 but now I see those quite regularly--not as often as a corollas or civics but still quite regularly.

    Still, the 3 is selling around here. I have been considering a new 3s hatchback to replace my '86 323 and have been casually watching the local inventory. It is not particularly large, so either the cars are selling quickly or not many cars are being shipped her. Within a 50 mile radius, there are only about 25 hatchbacks (down from about 70 in mid summer) in the current inventory of about 5 dealers. That isn't a large selection and given the number of cars on local roads, it takes a while to find them.

    However, when you see one, you do notice it. I had a 3 sedan come up behind me at a light this morning. I was so busy looking in the rear view mirror that I almost missed the change to green.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,475
    mainly because they are producing 3's in a single factory. The car sells okay here, but is much more popular in other countries.

    The U.S. isn't fueling the production increase.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    you say...

    "The U.S. isn't fueling the production increase"

    So your saying the MZ3 isnt exceeding US sales projections?
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    before this topic becomes a dreadful bore to the majority, the Protege required $2500-$3500 in rebates/incentives plus dealer incentives to sell....The MZ3 is selling without any incentives and still exceeding projections..Not to many car companies can say they are increasing production to sell a car without incentives, right now. Especially in every market the car is sold!

     Mazda also announced a 50% increase in production. If North America wasnt a big part, they wouldnt increase so let's not try to turn this into your typical slam of mazda.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    a) Let's not get personal

    b) Let's not turn this into yet another pointless recitation of sales statistics.

    We are here to talk about the car itself. Meeting sales goals - or lack of same - has nothing to do with how owners are getting along with their 3s, nor does that have much to do with potential buyers' interests.

    Unless people want to buy a vehicle that all of their neighbors and aunts and uncles own, that is. And for the most part, that sort of mentality does not describe the average TH member.

    Leave it be.
  • roger341roger341 Member Posts: 59
    I saw just part of a message going across bottom of tv screen about a Mz3 recall.

    Anyone know anything about this?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946

    Make : MAZDA Model : MAZDA3 Year : 2004
    NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 04V468000 Recall Date : SEP 23, 2004
    Potential Number Of Units Affected : 42000
  • fuzzboxerfuzzboxer Member Posts: 19
    Seems that recall applies to early production models.
  • cooljwcooljw Member Posts: 47
    I know this has been addressed here and there before. One more time for the masses please!

    I am considering the purchase of a 3i 5 speed primarily because it should get better gas mileage than the 3s. I am interested to hear what owners' experience has been regarding gas mileage on both models. Please post your mpg and tell everyone which car you drive and your driving habits, like this:

    S (Sedan/Hatchback) or i, 5-speed or Automatic, MPG, %City/%Highway

    For example:
    S Sedan, 5-speed, 29MPG, 15% City/85% Highway

    I'm sure many will find this feedback helpful.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    The car sells okay here, but is much more popular in other countries.
    The U.S. isn't fueling the production increase.


    At my local three brand huge California dealership the Mazda3 is the best selling vehicle, period!
    The salespeople are begging Mazda for more sedans. The inventory is so low, it's ridiculous.
    They had no sedans left in inventory, NONE, as recently as the last week.
    And the customers were still coming....
  • kmh2468kmh2468 Member Posts: 62
    S sedan, auto, 27 MPG, 80% city/ 20% hwy.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    S sedan, auto, 17 MPG, 80% city/ 20% hwy
  • justinjustin Member Posts: 1,918
    based on some of the spy pics of the new Jetta, i wonder if the 3i will kind of be the spiritual replacement of the base Jetta. same dimensions, same "look", and with the Gen IV Jetta going all bloated on us (based on limited previews), perhaps the 3 sedan will be the new "it" car under $20k? you know, the one that people buy just to have it, even though other cars get better MPGS, etc. in the beginning, VW couldn't keep enough of the 115hp Jettas in stock, hubcaps and manual windows and all, just because of the blue lights and cute look. seems like Mazda did the 3 much better than the 6, in my opinion.

    too bad they force you to buy needless options to get ABS/SAB on the 3i. the 3i is nicer to me, because you can get it in dark green with beige cloth. much classier than black/blue/red cloth. also, if they are going to offer leather, where is the heated seat option?

    i think once they get their option packages in check, and make ABS and airbags standard, they could have a runaway hit on their hands. and offer the S in dark green, and let beige be one of the interior colors on the S too! :)
  • bean3422bean3422 Member Posts: 183
    Pat, I know you recommended that we not pursue this topic, and I will try and word this with the utmost tact, and if you choose to remove this post, I understand. What I don't understand is why you feel the topic is not relevant, but you are the moderator, which I do understand. (-:


    I merely wanted to point out, in the interests of truth and fairness, that your link to the July 2004 Mazda3 sales was brilliant...a truth that yet still manages to hide the facts.

    The July and August 2004 Mazda3 sales were a low spot (by a little) for the Mazda3 since March. Every other month, including September, they have been higher than the Protege, sometimes by nearly 35%. Even though they only started selling in earnest in January, and started advertising in March, the total yearly sales is still up by almost 5000 units over the Protege.

    All that without rebates as another very astute poster pointed out.

    Once again I apologize to Pat, but that will be the last I have to say on that topic. If one cannot clearly look at the facts, then nothing I can post will change anything (it just helps me feel better!) (-;
  • bean3422bean3422 Member Posts: 183
    Anybody got a good feeling about the Mazdaspeed 6 2.3 liter turbo with nearly 260 HP and AWD?

    Any reason why that puppy can't easily be slid into the Mazdaspeed3 with the AWD bits?

    I am certainly salivating...if they will only hurry up and my Protege will last a few more years...
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,475
    I was answering that post. Worldwide demand is driving the increase in output. The Mazda3 is built in one factory.

    Allocation problems may be why some dealerships aren't getting the cars they want/need, but some areas of the country have plenty.

    More up to date...

    Another article..
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I don't see what they have to do with how any of you are getting along with your 3s. Nor do I see how they might matter to a potential buyer.

    What I DO see in various discussion is a certain poster using various sales figures to try to prove heaven knows what, over and over, to the point where the discussion becomes completely non-productive.

    That was my point.
  • fowler3fowler3 Member Posts: 1,919
    a hot-selling car with lower production units would be just fine with many buyers, it keeps the resale value up. Many on here have said they prefer it that way so they do not see their clone at every intersection.

    Do you want what everybody else is buying or do you want a unique ride everybody is looking at?

  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    For one thing, the Mazda3 is not using Focus II's own steering rack like the S40 does, but then the S40's lack of steering-feel details is most likely due to lack of the firm bushings found in the Mazda3.

    Read both #43 & #44:
    creakid1 "Ford Focus 2005 release date" Oct 6, 2004 5:01pm
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807

    Notice how the RX-8 is actually better in every area. This is surprising considering the RX-8 has no B-pillar. The rotary probably does give it a bigger crumple-zone in the front though which can explain that. I guess that's another advantage to the rotary besides ride comfort and handling.
  • zoomzoomzorrozoomzoomzorro Member Posts: 2
    I recently bought a 2004 3i and like it a lot. However, I now wish I had power windows and locks. Is it possible to have these added? What would be the cost?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    Aftermarket power locks are available, but I don't know if there's a kit for the Mazda3. As for aftermarket power windows, that sounds pretty invasive (and expensive) to me.
  • zoomzoomzorrozoomzoomzorro Member Posts: 2
    I recently bought a 2004 3i and like it a lot. However, I now wish I had power windows and locks. Is it possible to have these added? What would be the cost?
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I might be a little behind on this, sorry if its old news....but mazda has added a link on their homepage to download the zoom~ zoom ringtones for your cell phone. They also added the video of the 'cellphone' full line mazda commercial.

    I was waiting to check out at the store this morning and the girl in front of me got a call and it was ringing 'zoom~zoom' I asked her where she got it and told me mazdausa.
  • waygrabowwaygrabow Member Posts: 214
    With over 13,000 miles on my 3S MT the mileage continues to be great. Last four tankfulls have given 37mpg, 39mpg, 36mpg, and yesterday 36.4mpg (433.2 miles, 11.9 gallons). The increase in gas prices doesn't bother much when you are getting such good fuel efficiency.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    I look at the car ads every week and Wayne Mazda in Wayne, NJ is offering an 1,155 dollar dealer discount on the 3 sedan so is the car really that much in demand? I think Wayne Mazda is the largest Mazda dealer in NJ too. There is also a 1,600 dealer discount on the 3 hatch but most of 3 sales are with the sedan so thats expected. I think Mazda will adjust their demand if in fact the 3 sedan is in this much demand. The same thing happened with 04 Acura TL's w/ Navigation. Honda could not make them fast enough.

    Before the past few months the Mazda 3 was rolling of lots in NJ. When I was on my trip in June to Virgina I see more Mazda 3's than new Chrysler 300's. Mazda needs to keep production rolling of the 3. Its Mazda's bread and butter just like the Accord and 3 Series are Honda's and BMW's bread and butter. The 3 is Mazda's low budget 3 Series. I am still wondering about the dealer discount on the 3 Sedan though. I wonder how the 3 is doing on dealer lots in NJ.
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