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Mazda3

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Comments

  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    A 3 should be similar to any other small front wheel drive car in the snow. The most important thing is the tires. Put on 4 snows and the car is safer in the snow than an AWD without snows.
  • thomaspeterdubthomaspeterdub Member Posts: 20
    Thanks. I understand. The concern I have is that the hatchback has standard 17" M+S, which may render the car not quite snow efficient even though is is FWD. Yes, I could buy snow tires, but I wanted to avoid that for the 3-4 times we would take the car skiing. What is you opinion?
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Not sure I understand why 17 inch wheels / tires would have any impact on a cars ability to handle snow. Seems like the tread would be the main issue.

    The stock Goodyears on the Mazda3 do have a M&S rating - but they look like they would be very poor in the white stuff.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Well.. wide tires are worse in snow.. less weight per square inch.. The 17" on the S-model won't have the traction that the narrower stock tire on the I-model sedan would have..

    You are correct about the tread design... While not familiar with the tires on the S-model, most 17" performance oriented all-season tires do not have that great of snow traction.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Yes a skinny tire will have more traction per square inch - but a wider tire has MORE square inches.

    Even on a dry road a skinny tire will have more traction per square inch than a wide tire - so why don't drag racers use real skinny rear tires?

    The issue with wide VS skinny tires in the snow is not traction per square inch - the wider the tire the more snow it has to push - imagine how hard it would be for Fred Flintstone's car to drive in the snow.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Well.. ideally, a drag car's tires will "stick" to the pavement.. so, increased surface area helps.. Plus, they need to spin at the start to get the ideal launch, yada, yada, yada...

    It is the opposite for snow... You need increased weight for traction, because the tires won't stick.

    But, either way.... winter tires are best.. I'm sure there must be someone on here who has real-world experience this their Mazda S and snow..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    It only costs about $350 to $400 for a set of nice snow tires and 4 new steel rims. You will also save wear and tear on your summer tires.

    Nokian makes an all weather year round tire that is rated for severe snow service, if you don't want to change wheels.

    http://www.nokian.com/passengercars_product_en?product=610503&amp- ;amp- ;name=NOKIAN+WR

    Regarding tire width. On ice the trade off of more psi vs. more area is about even, although some tire makers claim that wider is actually slightly better. The charcteristics of the snow change as pressure is applied. Too light a load on the snow and it acts like lots of little ball bearings. Smash it down real good and it almost gets sticky. That along with less snow to push means narrower tires do better in the snow.

    When you go to extemes though (huge amounts of pressure, or huge amounts of area), pressure always wins. Which stops better on snow and ice, a tobaggen, or set of mountaineering crampons.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    "Which stops better on snow and ice, a tobaggen, or set of mountaineering crampons."

    Umm.. Is there going to be a test? lol

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  • everfebeverfeb Member Posts: 115
    Type "snow tires" into the SEARCH THIS DISCUSSION box at the top right of the screen and you'll find 3 pages of snow tire discussions.

    My 2 bits worth....I got my 3S-GT with 17" low profile Goodyear AS tires on Dec. 11/03. I live in NW Ontario where we get real winters. So I got to "drive"????? my 3 in lots of real world conditions last winter. Snow, ice, slush, slush on top of ice, hard packed snow covered highways.
    These tires were TERRIBLE. Thank goodness we don't have real hills around here. I am 57, have been driving for 40 years and have never put snow tires on any of my previous vehicles. Never felt the need to. Until these tires. I don't plan to drive my 3 much, if at all this winter but if I was I would absolutely be putting 16" steel wheels and snow tires on. Many on this and other forums have done so.

    For sure, I would not want to be driving on these tires on hilly snow packed roads. It's the tires...not the car.

    everfeb
  • waygrabowwaygrabow Member Posts: 214
    I vote for dedicated snow tires. We had Blizzaks on our A4 Quattro last winter and it was like driving on dry pavement. I could pass all those other slowly creeping cars confidently. The only problem was when the snow was so deep that I was plowing it; even then handling was okay. This year we have regular M&S tires on the A4; my wife already has noticed the difference- more sliding. As for our M3, when we have a storm, I drive the SUV. The M3 tire tread looks like a regular road tread to me, not well-suited to snow.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    "...narrower stock tire on the I-model..."?

    I thought the 16" tires on the 3I w/ power windows have the same width as the 17" tires on the 3S.
  • eklektikeklektik Member Posts: 12
    1010tires.com has a consumer tire rating system. The stock 17" goodyears are rated poorly in the snow and poor in general.

    Have just spent $950 on a set of four Nakayama Zoro10's accompanied by Hankook Ventus HRII 215/45/17 tires, the Hankook's are rated far superior to the stock Goodyears.

    The new wheel combination weighs about 39 lb.s, an 8lb weight saving per wheel. I am expecting, and hoping, to receive a noticeable increase in an already good handling car. The Hankook's are also supposed to be quieter than stock. Acceleration should also increase, but not by a large amount. We'll see when I receive them in two weeks.

    Also, I rented within the last six weeks, A Chevy Cavalier, Neon, and Corolla. The worst of the group was the Cavalier, with it's taxicab interior and land yacht handling. Next in line was the Neon, it had a noisy, unrefined engine,and an interior marginally better than the Cavalier. Out of the three the Corolla had the best interior and more refined driving experience, but it's engine was likewise noisy. And paying attention too detail, their stock radios were inferior to the 3's. The Corolla did handle better than both cars. All in all those three cars were not even close to the level of refinement of my 3S sedan, which I was most happy to return to.
    Finally, I accompanied a friend to look at a BMW 325ci softtop. I couldn't help but peek inside the 325 sedan parked next to it. The interior looked like cheap vinyl or whatever, my Maz had an interior that would make it blush! It was listed at 29K, way to go Mazda!
  • ikeedumikeedum Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the snow and tires info. I just will have to hope the stock 3s tires will do until I can scrape up some cash to buy better ones.
  • eklektikeklektik Member Posts: 12
    I turned in my 3s to take care of the recall item and mentioned to the service tech that my steering wheel groaned louder than usual the last week. They later called and said that they found a problem and when consulted, Mazda is going to have them replace the rack and pinion for the car. Has anyone experienced this problem?
    I got a 3i as a loaner, it came with 16" toyo tires, compared to the much maligned 17" Goodyears, the toyos are noisy,hard,and feel less stable when turning. Any observations?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...the Toyos are indeed noisier and harder than the Goodyears, though I doubt their handling is noticeably inferior [beyond the size difference, of course]. First thing I would do if I bought any 3 is replace the tires with something softer and quieter, but those are my priorities. The car's feeling of good handling and being light on its feet isn't going to be noticeably compromised by a more comfortable tire, but the bias these days is all the other way - everyone wants cornering power to make you eyes bug out, and I recognize my viewpoint is a minority one.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    but steering feel/pleasure matters even in everyday driving!

    The Bridgestone Turanza LS-H is the most incredible quiet comfy riding tire. But after I tried'em on, I found out that there goes my steering feel out the window. Fortunately my '90 Protege LX's steering feel was abundant to begin with, so what's left over is just barely sufficient.

    I doubt the Mazda3 w/ the electro-hydraulic steering assist & the subframe can afford to run on these tires w/o feeling numb.
  • waygrabowwaygrabow Member Posts: 214
    For those who are considering the M3 as well as other alternatives, I want to highly recommend this first year car. I have had my Mazda3S MT for a few weeks short of one year and have over 14,000 miles on it. My only complaint is the weak A/C, but where I live, it is a minor issue. The handling is great, in the city or on the road. The interior is convenient and comfortable. The gas mileage has been outstanding. Just filled it today; 35mpg (11.6 gallons, 408 miles). This is typical mileage; highway mileage is even better. Of course. a real testimonial would require a few years and over 50,000 miles, but I've had a great initial impression.
  • eklektikeklektik Member Posts: 12
    I concur, the MZ3s is a great car, especially for the money. I find myself making excuses to take it out of the garage, and when i get on the road and mingle with the traffic, I have a feeling that most of the other drivers have very little idea how composed and refined this car is! Half of them are just interested in a car as an appliance to go from A to B, I have to remind my friends, who drive a Matrix and Cavalier, that it's -how- you get there that's important!
  • obenoben Member Posts: 1
    I just traded in my brand new 05 Scion Tc for a 04 Mazda 3 and I could not be happier. I was initially impressed the the Tc's long list of standard features for a great price and it's really not that bad of a car(I did not test a M3 before I purchased the Tc). I would say that it's not a drivers' car. You just never really feel that connected to the road and the gas mileage is terrible. The M3 feels great and the gas that I will save will make up for the minimal amount I paid for the trade in about 2 years, the particular M3 I purchased also has more features than my Tc. This is my first Mazda and so far I'm impressed.
  • ronfcronfc Member Posts: 6
    i have also discoverd that the stock 17 inch goodyear tires that come with this car are terrible even in light snow, when you have to brake it is as if the car was fitted with runners.
    has anyone tried the michelin pilot sport a/s ?
    the 16 inch wheels that come with this car are the same ratio as the 17 arnt they?
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Did you take a financial beating by doing this?? I love the 3 and may still get one some day. The Tc is nice, I just didn't fit in it very well.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    My closest dealer is today advertising $2200 off every '04 Mazda3 in stock, thanks in part to a new (?) $1000 rebate for people who finance through Mazda Credit. I suppose you could line up other financing, sign the loan with MAC, and then pay it off early (as in immediately). I did that once with a car many years ago, to let the automaker "float me a loan" for 30 days until I sold my old car.
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    These are US specs. Don't know if there is a Canadian special edition coming out yet. The SP23 name comes from the Mazda Australia. That's their designation for the topline model. Apparently will be available in both sedan and sport bodystyles. Sounds like a very nice package.

     

    2005 MAZDA3 SP23 Special Edition

    4-Door and 5-Door

    Product Information Bulletin

    November 18, 2004

    The 2005 MAZDA3 is a compact car with the spirit of a luxurious sports sedan, and there is no doubt

    that consumers, like the automotive press, recognize it as a class-leader that can hold its own against

    any Japanese or European import – including many premium brands.

    Mazda is now proud to introduce the 2005 MAZDA3 SP23 Special Edition. The SP23 is based on 4-

    Door and 5-Door “s” models equipped with the 2.3L engine, 17” alloy wheels, side sills, and leather

    trimmed seats. The SP23 adds high-value features that are not commonly found in a compact car –

    features that exceed customer expectations in the segment. These features include:

    Exterior

    • 17" alloy wheels with high gloss finish

    • Automatic on/off headlights

    • Automatic rain-sensing (adjustable sensitivity) with 2-speed and fixed-intermittent front

    windshield wipers and washer

    • Special Edition "SP23" badges on each front door

    • LED rear combination taillights (5-Door only)

    • Exclusive exterior color: Carbon Gray Mica

    Interior

    • Leather trimmed seats and door panel inserts (Saddle Brown or Black)

    • Heated front seats (driver and passenger)

    • Pollen filter for air conditioning

    • Bose premium audio system with 7 speakers including subwoofer

    • In-dash 6-disc CD changer

    • Instrument panel trim insert - black (gloss-type finish)

    • Steering wheel trim inserts - black (gloss-type finish)

    • Standard floor mats, carpeted

    Overall, the additional SP23 equipment contains great value and is priced only $990 over the base “s”

    model with Sport Package (4-Door) and leather trimmed seats.

    SP23 options include a 4-speed Sport AT automatic transmission, power sliding-glass moonroof,

    navigation system, and the SP23 Security Package which contains:

    • Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) with Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD)

    • Dual Front Seat Mounted Side-Impact Air Bags (front coverage)

    • Side Air Curtains (front & rear coverage)

    • Xenon High-Intensity Discharge (HID) Headlights (Low-Beam, Manual-Leveling)

    • Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)

    • Theft-Deterrent Security System

    The SP23 is a limited production vehicle and will be offered in only one Special Edition exterior color:

    Carbon Gray Mica. The leather trimmed interior will be available in two colors: Saddle Brown leather

    (November 2004 thru May 2005 production); and Black leather (February 2005 thru May 2005

    production).
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    Can the pollen filter be retrofited in other 3's?

     

    Looks like this car, w/ enough leg room, is designed to compete w/ the TSX & the new Jetta V, but w/ the DSC missing.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    as the 3 2.3 was never available w/o a black interior.

     

    This is the 1st time a 3 w/ 6-disc changer can be equipped w/o the moonroof. & this is very important, 'cause I, being 5'11", need to raise the 3's driver seat all the way in order to stretch my legs comfortably, & the only the moonroof-less car can provide enough head room.

     

    We just bought an '04 RX-8 w/ Bose, which sounds better than the more powerful stereo in our '04 TSX & the even-more-powerful stereo w/ Sony speakers in my '05 Focus ST.

     

    & finally, the Carbon Gray Mica exterior w/ brown-leather interior should look really classy, as the only 3 so far w/ an impressive exterior is the Titanium Grey sedan w/ the sport package.

     

    If I'm in the market for a Mazda3, then this would be the one! Too bad, we already got more than enough cars at home, & our TSX is always the one nobody wanted to drive when their choices also include the '04 325i & the '04 RX-8. Otherwise, we'd have passed buying this grey TSX(@ a whopping $29800 out-the-door-price paid at sticker) & wait for this hot-looking 3!
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    After a bit of a software snafu last week, we'll try to get a harder count on how many of you are coming to the Philadelphia Auto Show on Feb 5th and 6th (that's the first weekend of the show) so we can figure out how many goodies we might need! So stop in at one of the chats this week and let us know!

     

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  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    new frontal offset crash test results are in...The Mazda3 has earned the IIHS "best pick" rating for being the best performer in the recent tests.

     

    According to the insurance institute for highway safety a best pick rating means the belted driver in a real world 40mph frontal crash most likely would walk away with only minor injuries.

     

    Some of the cars that scored poorly compared to the Mazda3 include...Focus, hyundai elantra, suzuki forenza, nissan sentra, saturn ion, dodge neon, kia spectra (poorest performer since 2001), chevy cavalier.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Can you please give us a link to that information? The IIHS hasn't posted it yet.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    No link yet...the official press release from IIHS goes out on 12/19/04 @ 9PM according to the letter I got today from Mazda.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Some of the cars that scored poorly compared to the Mazda3 include...Focus, hyundai elantra, suzuki forenza, nissan sentra, saturn ion, dodge neon, kia spectra (poorest performer since 2001), chevy cavalier.

     

    That is not quite accurate. Actually, the Elantra and Focus received a "Good" score from the IIHS, their top rating, but did not score quite high enough to be a "Best Pick." The Spectra and Cavalier, on the other hand, scored "Poor" on the test, so to say they scored poorly compared to the Mazda3 is certainly true. The others were Average to Marginal.

     

    Note that three cars scored higher than the Mazda3--would you say the Mazda3 scored "poorly" compared to them?
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    I saw the crash test on the "Dateline with Stone Philips" TV show last night. Kind of hard to see a Mazda3 going head first into a wall - but it was nice to see the Mazda rated so well.

     

    This was a frontal crash test only - from what I have read Mazda scores a 3 out of 5 on the side crash test - but they only tested a car without the side air bag option. Based on other cars that have been tested both with and without side air bags - it seems like cars with this option pick up 1 at least one additional point.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    "Note that three cars scored higher than the Mazda3--would you say the Mazda3 scored "poorly" compared to them?"

     

    yes I would...but according to the press release that I have from IIHS they don't have anyone scoring higher than the MZ3. The press release lists 18 models... From what I see is "G" is the highest score and the Mazda3 scored a "G" in all catagories recently tested..as did some others. It was nice to see that on all the shows humping the IIHS tests, they singled out the top results of the Mazda3
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Mazda3's results were excellent, but there are three cars that score better. Look at the list--it is not alphabetical. If you look at the details of the scores, you see that the three cars ahead of the Mazda3 had higher scores in one or more areas. Still, being 4th of all small cars tested is a great achievement.
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    I do not know for the life of me why any manufacturer would supply the government with a vehicle that is going to be subject to side impact testing when it is not equipped with side air bags.

     

    That's just crazy!

     

    As I understand it, manufacturers choose which vehicles they supply for these tests and some are too cheap to offer up vehicles equipped with side air bags. If this is true and not an urban myth then someone at Mazda needs their head examined.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Not 100% sure but I think the crash test is normally done on the vehicle with "standard equipment" - since the air bags are an option on the Mazda3 they would not be tested. The main reason given for testing standard equipment vehicles is - it will encourage manufactures to include more safety equipment as standard.
  • allen53flallen53fl Member Posts: 41
    I saw the Dateline segment also. I liked the part where the spokesman comments on the MZ3: "They did it right." A VERY positive comment.

     

    Here is the Dateline NBC link for the PR:

     

    http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2004/pr121904.htm

     

    Makes me feel much more confident, as I just purchased one over Thanksgiving weekend. VERY happy w/it btw.

     

    Allen
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Just a couple of shopping days left until Christmas... avoid the holiday crush and join us for an evening of automotive chat and good cheer!

     

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  • paramount13paramount13 Member Posts: 18
    You are correct. I will add from my study of the '04 side impact tests for mid-size sedans that IIHS will test a car with optional equipment also (i.e., SAB, SCAB) if the manufacturer pays for the car. This is how Toyota and Honda got their SCAB-equipped '04 Camrys and Accords tested in the IIHS side-impact test (SCAB is standard on the '05 Accord but was not in '04). It will be interesting to see whether Mazda supplies a SCAB-equipped 3 for the side impact test. As I have said in a couple of other forums, the only reason for a manufacturer NOT to supply a SCAB-equipped car is if the mfgr either suspects or knows that the car will not fare much better than the non-SCAB car. In the mid-size '04 tests, I noticed that Nissan and Mazda elected not to supply SCAB-equipped cars (Altima and M6). I hope Mazda shows some cojones with the 3 this year and gets a SAB/SCAB car tested.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The other thing Mazda needs to do IMO is make the ABS/SAB/SAC package standard on the Mazda3 by 2006, to better compete with the likes of Honda, which will have these features standard on all their cars (even the Civic and Fit) by then. Also, many small cars have at least SABs standard now, and some have SACs standard. By making the package standard, they can probably reduce the cost of adding thoses features through economies of scale and production efficiencies.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    This may seem minor - but I think it is a factor.

     

    Mazda wants to be listed in the "under $15,000" group - even though (I would guess) 98% of all Mazda3 cars sold are priced above $15K. If you take the i model and add SAB option the MSRP is over $15K ($15,025).

     

    Also - some people with complain that it should be an option - so they don't have to spend the extra $7-800 if they don't want to.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Most people like safe cars. And if these safety features are put on every car, the cost should be less than the current package price. The current car starts at $13k-something. Adding these features will NOT put the car over the $15k threshhold.
  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    They're doing it for the same reason Honda sells a DX model Civic with no bags, no ABS, and no A/C (in Texas and Arizona, no less). To provide a cheap price to advertise. "Real people" aren't supposed to actually be able to get a car without them. ;)
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Current car starts at $13,680 plus $800 for SAB plus $520 destination ($545 for 2005) for a total of $15,000. That would move the Mazda3 out of the UNDER $15K class. Making this standard would not save them much - and could (believe it or not) even cost them more on per unit basis.

     

    It is not always true that if the quantity goes up the price goes down (in the short run anyway). For example - maybe the supplier of this part is running close to capacity and they would need to get the additional parts from a higher cost secondary supplier -

     

    Some people (not me BTW) could not care less about safety features - so even if it saved $50 putting this on every car - so it was ONLY a $750 option Mazda could loose these sales.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Starting no later than 2006 that Civic DX will have standard ABS, SABs, and SACs. Honda seems to have found a supplier that can handle its needs, since it has promised to equip all of its cars this way by 2006. Even low-buck cars like the Forenza, Elantra, and Spectra offer SABs standard now. They don't seem to have problems getting parts either.

     

    I don't care about alloy wheels either, but Mazda makes me buy them in order to get a Mazda3 that has features I do want, like a height-adjustable seat and a power package (windows, locks, mirrors). And they make me get SABs and SACs even if all I want is ABS (or vice-versa).
  • rutger3rutger3 Member Posts: 361
    Every car in the U.S. should have these standard, and if you dont think so then wait a few years and see what happens. The same thing happened with front airbags. ABS use to be on BMW types only, now they are standard on mainline cars. It is a crime that it takes the auto mfgs so long to get it. The only reason they drag their feet is they make more money that way. If the Elantra and much less expensive cars can include them std, then no doubt so can Honda and Toyota and Mazda. Mazda is always behind the other foreign cars and it costs them in sales. Honda is brighter, saw this and now have them std on all accords. Also, the law of economics clearly states that as your purchases increase, the price decreases. Honda would not be making this decision if they were losing money. And for those that say they don't want to pay for these 'useless' things, then all i ask is that you sign away your rights to sue for pain and suffering if you are involved in a crash. BTW, you may not want these items, but your passenger might appreciate them.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Actually front air bags were legislated into the mainstream. As for ABS, IIRC GM starting including them a few years ago on even lowly Cavaliers. Sales plummeted - GM made them an option, dropped the price, and sales went up.

     

    I don't get it either.

     

    Also, the law of economics clearly states that as your purchases increase, the price decreases.

     

    Only in a perfect market and that assumes that additional equipment/capital/buildings/people to manufacturer the increased quantities are free and available. Luckily, Honda is in a position that it can foist additional items onto their loyal customers. That's not a bad thing.
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    Back in January 2003 I took the Honda Civic OFF my list of cars to consider for one reason. Even though SAB were listed as an option no cars could be found in Houston that had it, plus the SAC was not even an option. I had set these safety features as a must have.

     

    Maybe one of the economists on the board could explain - if increased purchases ALWAYS mean lower prices - why does the price of gas/crude oil GO UP when demand increases - seems like the more people buy the higher the price goes?

     

    Or if you want to stay on topic and talk about cars rather than oil - what will happen to the price of a Mazda3 if all the people that are shopping for Civics and Corollas decide that them MUST HAVE a Mazda3? Do you really think that with all of this INCREASED PURCHASING that most dealers will LOWER the price of the Mazda3? I have a hard time hearing the sales manager say - Gee I have 50 Mazda3 cars in stock and we have 1,000 people trying to buy them - maybe we should drop the price by a few hundred dollars - because it is an economic fact that if more of something is demanded the price must go down!
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I think you're confusing the word "purchases" in the original statement with "sales" in your scenarios re: oil and Mazda 3.

     

    What was meant in the original statement, I believe, was that if you buy in bulk from a supplier, other things being equal, your cost per unit purchased should be lower. For example, Honda has made SAB/SAC standard on the Accord this year. Purchasing a larger amount of those materials from its supplier(s) should enable Honda to achieve purchasing economies of scale (say, a a better contract price for that item due to a higher volume comittment) and have a lower purchase cost per unit.

     

    With respect to what you're saying about oil, or the Mazda 3 situation, your intuition is right. The law of supply and demand holds that given a constant supply, prices will increase when demand increases. Given a constant demand, prices will fall when supply increases, and rise when supply decreases.

     

    I hope this helps!

     

    Happy holidays!

    ~alpha

     

    PS- Where can I find MSRP and Invoice pricing on the MZ3s SE? Is it available here on edmunds yet?
  • z71billz71bill Member Posts: 1,986
    OK way off topic - but its a slow night.

     

    Maybe this is obvious - maybe not - A purchase by one company is a sale for another - so I don't see your point that I am looking at sales rather than purchasing. They are really just two sides of the same coin - the economic analysis will be the same for both. Think about it - if you could ALWAYS lower your unit cost by increasing the quantity purchased - just agree to buy more and more and more until the price is lowered to ZERO - then buy even more and the supplier would be paying you to take their product. Dumb right? But this simple (& stupid) example should prove that buying larger quantities does not always mean a lower price.

     

    I will agree that many times if a company wants to buy a larger amount it can get a better price. But that is not always true and in fact sometimes the opposite is true.

     

    You prove this in your post. You say "The law of supply and demand holds that given a constant supply, prices will increase when demand increases" So if Honda and Mazda and all the car companies decide that they want to put 8 air bags in ever vehicle that is produced that would increase DEMAND - which would (could) increase the price.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    just agree to buy more and more and more until the price is lowered to ZERO - then buy even more and the supplier would be paying you to take their product. Dumb right?

     

    Yes--dumb. Let's put aside the dumb arguments for a minute and look at the economics of the situation. Prices will seldom be zero (I have "bought" several "free after rebate" products, so price can be zero...), but they decrease as demand increases due to a number of factors, including 1) fixed costs being spread over a larger number of units, 2) variable costs reduced due to manufacturing efficiencies available due to more units produced (Toyota for one is great at doing this), and 3) greater demand bringing in more competitors, lowering profit margins.

     

    Take digital cameras for example. Five years ago, a basic 2 mp unit cost about $1000. Yesterday I saw a full-featured 3.2 mp unit on sale for $19.99. Demand has soared since 1999, but prices have plummeted as more suppliers entered the market and the technologies have matured.
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