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Comments
-16 inch alloy wheels---205/55/R16 tires
-Power windows with driver's side one touch down feature
-body color dual power remote door mirrors (folding type)
-Power door locks
-remote keyless entry
-lever type driver's seat lifter & manually adjustable lumbar support
-Cruise control with illuminated steering wheel mounted controls
-6 speaker sound system
"How much does the ABS/SAB/SAC package cost? And is it available WITHOUT a moonroof?"
I don't know how much it costs, but you DON'T need a moonroof to get it.
"Any info on whether chrome interior door handles are included with the beige interior? Do "i" trim models get chrome interior door handles or body-colored?"
It says all models get "silver colored" interior door handles.
So I took out my camera and in less than a minute of taking pics ... I got caught. A guy was coming towards me and used the keyless to unlock the car. I politely asked if my picture taking was ok and he said sure.
He did even more than that, he opened the car up, showed it off for me and even let me start it up, all while I was taking pictures. We chatted for about 15min, and then he had to go. But since we were in a non-public underground, I asked if he could drive me back up to where I parked my car. So, I got into the passenger seat and got a 2min ride in the Mazda3. It was manual, or else I would have asked if I could drive it myself.
This is the first time I've seen this vehicle in real life (and obviously the first time I rode in one), so here's my impressions:
Looks:
- looks great in person (better than the pics). It looks compact and very coupe-like on the outside, but there's TONS of room inside (including the back) and in the trunk. It also clearly has that 'athletic tension' that all new-gen Mazda's have.
- seats felt amazing, very supportive yet very soft and comfortable (I have an internal Mazda graph that compares the Mazda3 seats to the Golf and BMW 3-series in terms of 'support', 'ride', 'holding' and 'softness feel'. Being a Mazda graph, of course the Mazda3 seats beats them both, but now that I've sat in it I can confirm that they're very nice). But I have to say this caveat, I'm a small & thin person, and I could see the seats maybe being too small for very large folks.
- the steering-wheel feels awesome, not a surprise given that it's taken directly from the RX-8
- seating position is high (so great view of the road), but there's still good headroom and I was very impressed with the amount of room in the backseat
- like the other new-gen Mazdas, the center display says 'Hello' when you start up the car
- the radio is very, very cool. When you turn the volume up or down, the horizontal led-like lights around the buttons light-up in the direction you turn the volume knob. The documentation I have says that Mazda did this so it seems like the car interacts with you. Also, even though we were in an underground, the radio reception was perfect, and it sounded pretty good too (it sounded as good as the standard radio in the RSX I was in today, but I'm not an audiophile).
- the glove compartment is HUGE. Plus, it's dampered, very upscale.
Ride:
- the vehicle had the 16-inch alloys, and as we rode up from the underground, it was very smooth. He also took some corners somewhat fast and there is like NO body-roll. Overall, the ride is very, very refined, very smooth but this car can clearly perform as well
- the 2.0l engine started up very smooth and is very quiet. At idle, the 2.0l had less vibration than the RSX I was in today
The guy confirmed that the vehicle (and I'm pretty sure all the vehicles from those Vancouver pics), was euro-spec. They are using them as test mules (e.g. checking out the specs, testing it on our roads, squeak & rattle testing, etc...). The red sedan I was in was the only one on site - he wouldn't tell me where the others were.
The guy said that the Mazda3 would reach Canada around mid-November, which further confirms my info.
And of course you want pics right? Well I took a good amount of them (though I wish I had more time before the guy came), and I'd be happy to share with you the better ones (all my pics had a particular focus, I had seen enough profile shots from the Mazda official pics so I didn't do many of those). So Bruno, you wanna host my pics?
305 Milner is an office building and I saw no parking lot. Could it be on the side street towards the 401?
I drove twice past it to see any parking lots, but it looked like a regular building. Do I have the right address?
Dinu
16" alloys, 6 speakers, body-colored mirrors, SAC WITHOUT a moonroof, remote keyless entry. MazdaUSA did the impossible and included everything I wanted and I'll have the beige interior to go along with it. This is unbelieveable!
"It says all models get "silver colored" interior door handles."
That'll work. That's much better than body-colored door handles.
Thanks newcar31!!
Dinu
To quote Bob Hall, father of the Miata, "If you can't go fast with 90hp, 900hp won't help you"
To quote a proverb, "It is more fun to drive slow car fast than a fast car slow."
How different is the seats in the Mazda3 compared to the Mazda6? Also you said they're similar to the RX-8, after actually sitting in the Mazda3 seats does that still hold true? I haven't sat in a RX-8 so I'm still unsure of seat comfort in that, but as you know the Mazda6 seats were very uncomfortable for me. Obviously uncomfortable seats is an automatic deal breaker for me and I won't be able to get the car. So how do those seats compare to the Mazda6? Completely different or similar?
Also I posted how reviews stated that the dash looked nice but felt hard and cheap. How did the dash compare to other cars?
Black w/red: BP6
Black w/blue: BP5
Oh, oh, we get the cheesier pattern, sort of like the 1st Focus SVT. At least your buttock won't be sitting on the burning black patch.
Good thing the black taillights come in either sport or non-sport. Does the Sports Package offer the choice of w/ or w/o the rear spoiler, like the Mazda6?
I haven't decided which grill really looks better. I wonder if the non-sport grill is looking too much like a Mazda MPV. Heck, even the frontal view of my '90 loaded Protege looks like the old RWD Mazda MPV from a distance!
The cloth felt like it would last a long time but much, much softer than the cloth on the Mazda6. If I remember correctly, the Protege black cloth is suede-like - the Mazda3 cloth was not like this.
The seats themselves felt a bit softer than the Mazda6 but with equal support.
I haven't sat in the RX-8 yet (though I may this weekend), so I can't compare with the RX-8.
And yes, even the lowest trim Mazda3 has an engine immobilizer (in Canada anyways).
Well it's official, I definetly won't be getting the 2.3 "s" trim. I'll wave at you guys when you fly by me in your 2.3 Mazda3. ********
If the taillights are a big issue, I'm sure you could always find someone with an 'i' to switch taillights. I'm sure there will be plenty of i-ppl who want the s lights. Just check clubmazda3 or mazda3online or whatever the club will be called once the car rolls out.
On another note, I wonder if the 3 will end up in rental lots like the Protege. That's actually not entirely a bad thing. Since I travel a lot, it's kind of a pleasant surprise when I end up with a Protege rental.
thanks
All the reviews so far were done in France, & they all feel the 3 is way better than the 323. If this newer version of Mazda has its handling deteriorated, then they would have pointed it out.
"Boring? you're speaking from a point of ignorance, obviously, as the TSX is anything but boring. It's a loaded 325i killer for 10k less."
The TSX's softer bushings has completely wiped out the limited steering feedback found in Euro Accord. No matter how high the handling limit the car ITSELF can achieve, it still feels boring, or even scary(as complained from our TSX's main driver!), from the driver's hands.
As far as being a BMW killer? Reliability or clutch/shifter wise, the TSX is better. But this Japanese design, even w/ the ride comfort sacrificed w/ taut springs, just can't achieve the comfy-riding std 3-series's handling/steering-feel.
creakid1 "Acura TSX vs BMW 325i" Sep 23, 2003 12:11pm
& see #573 & #574.
Wanna see a BMW killer in terms of handling/steering? Check out Mazda3's ancestor - the Focus SVT in May 2003 C&D:
p84(Focus SVT) "The thick steering wheel is tight, telegraphic link with the front wheels. Pick the pebble you want to fling from the white line, and the Focus will point you there."
pp56-58(BMW M5)"...the recirculating-ball steering had a bit too much power assist for optimal feel." "Lows: Numb steering..."
Interesting, when BMW's not trying hard enough (i.e., w/o rack & pinion steering)... They did promise bringing back the more driver-oriented 1-series & the next E90 3-series, both from the same platform.
April '03 Automobile also pointed out that the Focus SVT is "almost M3-like" in important/expensive areas and absorbs road bumps "like a 3-series".
So, I've yet to see how the TSX, other than having better sound insulation, beats the Mazda 3S, which rides on the Focus-II suspension, in terms of ride/handling/steering-feel compromise.
I've just read an article of Car and Driver(october 2003) and it said that the 2.3 motor will produce 170 HP... Could it be possible !!!
Does anyone know if traction control will be part of the option ?
- Ali
Is your exterior color choice going to be based on what can be had with the blue interior? The blue does look better than the red. That blue one with the ridges looks the best of all the black interiors. The complete black leather interior looks kind of gloomy, one of the reasons I don't like black interiors too much.
To quote a proverb, "It is more fun to drive slow car fast than a fast car slow."
The miata is rwd, pro is fwd. 'nuff said.
The TSX's softer bushings has completely wiped out the limited steering feedback found in Euro Accord. No matter how high the handling limit the car ITSELF can achieve, it still feels boring, or even scary(as complained from our TSX's main driver!), from the driver's hands.
TSX's main driver? Drive one yourself. Until that time you're speaking from a position of ignorance.
As far as being a BMW killer? Reliability or clutch/shifter wise, the TSX is better. But this Japanese design, even w/ the ride comfort sacrificed w/ taut springs, just can't achieve the comfy-riding std 3-series's handling/steering-feel.
As a 3 series owner and as someone who has driven all the variations of the e46 (save for the ///M3) I'd have to say this is total bull. The 325i with the sport package doesn't have some magically smooth ride. And it's certainly not any better ride-wise than a TSX. Furthermore, the freer-revving 2.4 inline 4 is far more spirited, peppy, torque and engaging than the anemic 2.5 liter inline 6 of the 325i. The 325i outhandles a TSX but at a significant cost penalty. Essentially, the 325i is a major rip-off.
p84(Focus SVT)
Done reading right there. The SVT is a joke. It's a 3 door hatch with a choppy ride, obnoxious engine and it's not worthy of talking about.
Interesting, when BMW's not trying hard enough (i.e., w/o rack & pinion steering)... They did promise bringing back the more driver-oriented 1-series & the next E90 3-series, both from the same platform.
Oh you lose. The 1 and e90 3 will only share 40% of the same components. The platform will not be one of them.
So, I've yet to see how the TSX, other than having better sound insulation, beats the Mazda 3S, which rides on the Focus-II suspension, in terms of ride/handling/steering-feel compromise.
Review after review blasts the Mada3 for not being as nimble as the current Pro ES. If that's so, and the Pro can't hold a candle to a TSX as any one with experience driving both will tell you, then by logical extension...
Drive a TSX 6 speed. Otherwise, you're just making stuff up.
BTW, I could pull useless quotes from so-called experts like Edmunds, R&T, MT, etc based on how the TSX gives 325i fun for a bargain price, but I I don't think a single magazine in the end is worth anything compared to actual experience.
When the 3 hits, I'll drive the top end model and if it's a better car than the TSX I'll gladly admit it. But I do know this, buying even a moderately loaded 325i (say 33k msrp, 30k actual price) became foolish to me the moment I drove a 6 speed tsx. I hate honda but the TSX impressed me in ways no 325i ever could. The TSX was almost as much car in handling, far better in build quality and lightyears beyond BMW in engine/tranny performance. The 325i, imho, is more for badge hounds or people willing to mod it.
The other advantage is I want a beige interior so that gives me more incentive to go with the 2.0 "i" trim. Better fuel mileage and better insurance rates (hopefully) will be a nice plus as well. As I said as long as I stay out of a 2.3 Mazda3 I won't know what I'm missing. And if I'm lucky I may be able to convince myself the 2.0 is a better engine than the 2.3. lol
Todd: I have a website about Mazda3 http://groups.msn.com/BrunoLuong/ustrimsandprices.msnw, if you can past the US packaging informations along (by Fax), I'll post them in my website and save you for answering many the questions.
Cheers,
Bruno
Correct me if I'm wrong, IIRC there is an earlier post here saying this won't happen with the Mazda3. A good thing is the resale value won't hurt.
No, the North America MZR 2.3L can't produce more than 160 hp (because lower compression ratio to cope with lowe quality fuel in US, also the Mazda3 has single exhaust) It's not a big deal though, having a long stroke (same bore as the 2.0L) and S-VT, the 2.3L still have plenty of torque across the entire range (more important than hp) and smooth like silk (2.3L has a balancer shaft that rotates at twice the crankshaft speed to cancel noise and vibration). Unlike the European spec (on Mazda6 for 2.3L), both NA engines can take regular fuel.
Does anyone know if traction control will be part of the option ?
No, DSC Electronic Stability and TSC traction control won't come to North America, at least not now.
Bruno
Yes, I drove the auto version since April & we bought one. I didn't get scared when cornering, but could not sense the tire adhesion from the steering. The main driver is the one that paid for this car, & he's the one that got scared trying to go significantly above the speed limit over a high speed fwy ramp. The reason he wanted me to announce it on this board is because he didn't get scared doing the same cornering from his European car - the C220. My point is that it's too bad, despite a much higher handling limit than the C220, the TSX ended up making this average driver going SLOWER! & we didn't even make the rear wheels airborne like you did. & I'm sure a comfy std(non-sport) 325i w/ a more communicative steering than the TSX will make this average Joe drive faster w/o being scared. Of course, w/ enough adrenaline pumping, drivers like you may not worry about the amount of steering feedback & can push the TSX further than the std 325i w/ 16"s. Maybe the roads you got in San Diego county are smooth enough, but I corner over bumps, & I enjoy drifting more than maximum lateral g-force, even in the rain. That's why I can't stand the TSX due to lack of telegraphic steering.
& the TSX's taut ride isn't so pampering. It's even worse that I get to ride in the back seat most of the time. I just envy the 325i w/o sport suspension. It's the European cars' repair problems that scared us away.
I'm hoping the 3S will be a fun & communicative European handler like the Focus SVT but w/ better powerplant, refinement &, of course, reliability. Otherwise, I might pick the new Volvo S40/V50 for better ride & quietness than the 3S.
Exactly, the interior is priority since I'm the one inside the car. Looks like white, silver, or titanium are my choices. Too bad none of them has any real color. & I don't like dark colors.
The 2.3 version is so precious it's not even available in Europe. So I can't afford to pass.
& if those "wimpy-engine" Protege ES & Focus SVT are already too sporty to allow light interior colors, then let alone the "155-lb-ft torque @ 4000 rpm" 2.3 3. Mazda will insist on black or "Focus SVT-like" black/blue(or red) interior for a while.
But I might just wait for a year so the ESP will be available.
Black
Shimmering sand metallic
Strato Blue
Nordic Green
Starlight Green
Rally white
Bruno--
I wish I could, but I can't.
-Hmmm!!!
Dinu
Don't worry about the thumbnails, I can't make it work correctly.
Why don't you meet up in the Acura TSX vs. BMW 325i discussion? You're posting in the wrong place!
So what you're saying is FWD cars need more HP than RWD cars?
I don't know the context of your conversation, but your dealer could have said that it's coming in Jan just so you get a Pro/Pro5.
Being in Vancouver, judging from the recent RX-8 launch, you'll see it on dealer lots before us in Toronto (but only by a week or so).
So after the first pics, the specs, now the pics, next the brochure and test drive, then wait for 6-8mths...
Dinu
Thanks for all the info and pics from your drive!
Just out of curiosity, did you notice if there are levers in the trunk to fold the rear seats down (I couldn't tell in the pics)? The 6 has these and they are such a great idea.
I didn't notice levers in the trunk, which makes sense because my docs say that the split/fold rear seats are lockable (which wouldn't be logical if there were levers in the trunk).
My main worry and complaint is this. Again how many Mazda3 "i" trims will you see on the lot without the power package? Not to mention a lot of people will want a moonroof and that requires the power package so you'll see I assume most Mazda3 "i" trims sold with the power package and A/C. Maybe the cosmetic differences between the two (red taillights vs. smoked/black) will be enough for Americans to simply take the 2.0 anyway, but a lot will realize for little or no money they can upgrade to the 2.3 and get the better engine all the while keeping all the equipment of the 2.0 version. Plus they'll get a few extra goodies like leather-wrapped steering wheel/shifter and foglights and possibly some other stuff.
My opinion is if they're paying this much for a car I would think most people would simply ante up a little money and take the 2.3. Maybe Mazda assumes people are like me and the cosmetic differences is enough to keep people buying the 2.0. Either way I think my calculations somewhere are wrong and MazdaUSA won't have them so close to each other. A spread of $500 is reasonable, but if they're priced within $200-$300 of each other that might be too close.
And I've changed my mind because Mazda is giving me everything I wanted. Seeing the 15" alloys as an option still worries me though, and that they might bundle 15" alloys with the power package instead of 16". If not what's the point of 15" alloys? Virtually every Mazda3 will have A/C, the next logical step up is the power package and you automatically get 16" alloys so what's the point of 15" alloys? If someone is going to have manual windows I'm not so sure they'll be willing to pay money for alloys, I would think they would be happy with steel wheels and pocket the extra money they save without having to buy additional options. Also a good way to seperate the "i" trim from the sporty "s" trim is for the 2.3 to have bigger wheels. I'm glad they're bundling 16" alloys with the power package but that surprises me.
Also upgrading from 15" steel wheels to 16" alloys and tires will be more extra money added to the power package. Some people might just want power windows and don't want to pay all the extra money for 16" alloys. Anyway I'm just shocked they're doing it this way, and it's actually the exact way I hoped they would do it, but it seems strange to me for them to do it this way. Having 15" alloys and possibly noticeable weaker 4 speaker stereo compared to an "s" trim with almost the same price with both 6 speakers and 16" alloys and 2.3 seems like a no brainer. Why take the 2.0, smaller alloys, and weaker stereo for a small difference of money?
To sum all this up, I'm still skeptical that 16" alloys will be bundled with the power package when you have 15" alloys as an option that is basically irrelevant. The only possible way you can get 15" alloys is to have a stripper 2.0 with A/C. And again if someone is giving up power windows and the other stuff, how much of a demand will there be for 15" alloys for a customer like that? And only having two-tone black on the 2.3 and making it out to be the more sporty version, why let almost all 2.0 versions have 16" alloys which will happen if it's bundled with the power package? It seems logical that they would bundle 15" alloys with it and not 16", to further make the "s" trim more sporty. I'm not complaining though, as I said I want 16" alloys and if all this info is true then they're giving me exactly what I want.
Even if the prices are similar I can overlook that since MazdaUSA is giving me exactly what I want, no sacrifices are being made except the 2.3 but since I'm getting everything else I can't complain too much.
Anyway sorry for the long post. Yes I'm jumping the gun with my complaints but as I told wongpres I'm sure these prices aren't being pulled out of thin air. When you add up A/C and power package the prices seem to be very similar. I would assume MazdaUSA will find a way to seperate the prices better, but if not I don't see the point in the 2.0 at all. Since the prices aren't set in stone I guess they'll trim a little off the 2.0 price to seperate them better or my calculations are way off.
I have a question. Assuming my gripes turn out to be true would it matter to you if I complained then when all the info is official? I'm not sure if you're bothered more by my complaining alone or because I'm doing it before official info. I see people complaining on lots of different topics, including the Mazda6. Personally I like hearing people complain about option packages or whatever because I like hearing what other people think. But if my complaining is too much in here I'll be happy to stop. I figured the ones that didn't care would skip over my posts. I'm not here to annoy or bother anyone, I'm here to gather info, hear other people's opinions, and complaining just comes along with it. Anyway if you want me to stop talking about alloys and prices I will.
By the way I read the Volvo S40 would offer an aqua ice interior option so you can see the mechanical "guts" of the climate and audio systems. I've never heard of something like that offered on a car before. I think they replace the carbon-trim silver stuff and put the aqua ice stuff in it's place and you're able to see through it. Sounds kind of interesting.
For example, the Beige two-tone seats may NOT be mostly Beige with Black as the accent color; they may very well be like the BP6 trim, mostly Black with Beige the square-dot-pattern for contrast on the seat inserts. The dash and door panels are black, having true beige trim like the Protegé sounds unlikely. On Protegés, the beige seats contrast with the taupe dash, steering wheel, and door panels.
I would think Mazda is holding to an all-black dash, steering wheel, shifter handle, and door panel trim, making it illogical (or unlikely) beige/taupe will be added as an alternate full-cabin trim on the 2.0l models.
fowler3
Does anybody have the EPA volume for the 3?
If you still can't access to my site to see the picture, there is a tiny thumbnail in Mazda3/Gallery on http://www.mazdausa.com.
Bruno
Not exactly EPA volume, but here are numbers from Mazda press release in Europe.
http://groups.msn.com/BrunoLuong/dimensions.msnw
They better not lock like the seats in our Civic! The only way to fold those PITA's down is to crawl into the back seat (coupe) and use the ignition key to unlock them. Forget about doing it while the engine is running.
Since the 3 is a four door (which is what we want this time around) I guess it won't be quite as bad. I still don't see the need for the lock though.
Yet these same people might be concerned enough about the exterior of their car to get alloy wheels. After all, the exterior is what 99% of people see anyway.
Makes sense to me...but I don't know if it allays your concerns any.
And as Bruno said, there's a picture of the beige interior on the MazdaUSA site. It looks like whoever posted the most recent pictures in the gallery forgot to add the bigger versions because I can't get them to load.