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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • Farout,

    If I were in your shoes, I would accept the buyback...even if they charge you .10 a mile, that is only $2900, and if they will buy it back at sticker minus $2900, that is a great deal compared to the depreciation hit you'd take trading it in later. As cars age, the problems usually increase...considering the issues you've had so far, I'd take this opportunity while it's available. As I've stated before, I've had no problems with mine to speak of so far, but if I'd been through what you've been through, I'd take the opportunity to unload it in a heartbeat. If you like the Liberty, consider getting another gas one....or, the new Dodge Nitro (built on the same platform), is a great looking vehicle and a little bigger too...at least you'd be driving something that should be more reliable. Just my two cents....

    Best of luck to you, and please keep us posted....more of us may be in your shoes someday.
    Twocycle2
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Farout You have a Liberty gas and it is not the same, also there are not a single vehicle out there that have the power of the CRD with the malage that your are getting.
    As far as i know the problem that you are getting is mainly body issue, the engine, tranny and else is not giving you that much of a problem we all have the normal issue with the CRD. If i were you i will get another CRD with less mileage and with all the issue work out. After all you have been very happy with it.

    Nescosmo.
  • I agree with nescosmo on this one. But if your not a diesel fan now is the time to get out. I became a diesel fan after buying this liberty, I never had a car before that I enjoy driving like I do now. I also have a Ford Ranger and when I drive it I drive like a madman dashing here dashing there as if I'm in a race to get there, but when I drive the liberty I love to just putter around. If I ever wreck it I'll try and put the engine in something else. Maybe a wrangler.

    Do you think you could get some weather stripping of some sort and see if this will help reduce the noise? My Feb. 06 model makes a little more noise than it should at highway speeds and blows hard in a strong crosswind.

    What are your unresolved problems? My only unresovled problem is the sunroof leaks water into the cargo area when my jeep is parked pointing uphill in the rain.
  • budsjpbudsjp Posts: 25
    To me, this is simply a financial issue - you will never get a better "trade-in" price than this and with 29k on the vehicle, additional normal(e.g., tires and expensive oil changes) and probably abnormal repairs (with the experience you've had) are going to happen. You've had bad luck with your CRD, much worse than most of the rest of us. If you can find a replacement vehicle within your financial ability (i.e.,I presume you could add funds to the trade-in money - assuming you could do that) that meets your needs, take the money and run! Are you restricted to vehicles on the dealer's lot?
  • To add to this two step dance, because we have not serviced our Liberty's differentials every 12,000 miles our warranty on these may not be warranted by DCX

    Farout:
    In response to this I have suggestion. How close are you to a military base? If I remember right. About every base has an Auto Crafts shop that Military and Retired can use. I have looked into Amsoil as have added a trailer hookups to the jeep. By looking At the scheduled maintenance the book has schedule A and B. In my book it don't mention a single word on changing the differential oil, but because I do tow a trailer the book seems to go into panic mode and wants me to change it too much. I am going to replace it with an amsoil lube gear oil on my next service. The gear oil is good for at least 50,000 miles. What I gather if any product fails due to oil they cover it under some warrantee or product liability as long as you take an oil sample. Change the oil yourself with the specified lube on post and drive it.....by then.......................................................... Who knows, I bet you don't want to let the jeep go yet.
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    amsoil good choice
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    ucanfarm: It is almost impossible for ANYONE to qualify for Schedule A Maintenance, so B is what MUST be the schedule we use. Under either the 05 or 06 Owners Manual these differentials MUST be drained and fluid replaced, NO MATTER WHAT brand of fluid, as per DCX rep. This is a trap! This requirement makes this CRD outrageously expensive to keep up the required maintenance. I am not physically able to do this. The fact DCX is looking for a buyer, and they want to show they have a good warranty record. If you has a 3.7 gas you can go longer,ONLY the CRD requires this excivessive fluid changes. I am not happy either way I go, buy back is maybe the best for like trade in value, but there are always added unexpeded items. Keeping the "Green Beast" is more what we want, but...... there are several problems that the dealer has had 5 times to toss pars at the problems and still has no idea what to do next. So we are to get the results of the area rep by Friday. Honestly we do not look forward to this. It is easy to get real worn out with this, I think this is part of the plan.

    farout
  • vtdogvtdog Posts: 163
    FO:

    I don't know you, but have followed your problems for some time now on this forum. My advice (and you know what they say about advice:"everybodys got it, like an ahole" is that you get your $$ from DC and walk away from the car. Clearly, whether your really "like" the CRD or not it is not giving you good service and you should take the $$ and run. It seems they are giving you a "fair" deal and that is about all anyone could hope for.

    It is clearly not worth all the angst to keep the CRD. As one of my good friends says: "life is too short to dance with the ugly girls". So, chalk it up to experience and get something else.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Farout: why do you think we should be concerned by Schedule B instead of A? The CRD is a rugged diesel rig and before we can make it suffer, it will be hard to keep up with the rhythm for ourselves.
    If differential maintenance is your unknown source of problems, you can always put a "button" temperature logger against the rear banjo and evaluate how hot you run and how long. Do you really think Dana transmission elements need more care when used on a Jeep?
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    caribou1: The service manager is now saying that I did not follow the required maintenance schedule, one example is the differentials show no history of service in 29,000 miles. My point is I am notexperiencing any drive line problems. I think this is a sideline issue they can bring up to show it was not properly maintained. I however have kept records that show they have checked the differentials every time it has been in for an oil change.
    Are you sure these are Dana differenentials? Is there a drain plug for these or do you have to remove the plate? The front holds 1.3 L and the back 1.7 L. The dealer said that ONLY Mopar should be used, which I am not is the only brand that is good. What do you use?
    I have brought to the service managers attention that the gas engine on schedule B does not ever state that you MUST change the fluid unless it's used as the points listed with crosse's stacked on each other. None of the things listed do we experience. So they are checking as to why is the deisel different than the gas requirements? I was told they would find out as this is a good question.
    The buy back will be effected by this problem so I am told. My wife said if that is the case what good is a Service Contract? We are supposed to hear on Friday waht all this means and if we will accept the buy back, it's still our choice at this point. Time will tell.

    Farout
  • E85, doesnt make much sense, Check out this proto, now that is the car I want!!

    The Opel ECO Speedster (sponsored by Mobile 1)
    Opel Powertrain GMBH
    112 Horse Power inline diesel powerplant
    0-60mph in 3.6 seconds
    155mph top speed (250kph)
    113-145 Miles per gallon !!

    24 Hour test run covering 2500 miles, running on 100% biodiesel, averaging 140mph, and yielding 113mpg overall.

    Check it out
    http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/future-car/future-car.html

    I'm sure some of you have heard this before, here are the facts that determine which is better for the long haul:

    1 gallon of E-85 (fuel containing 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) has an energy content of 80,000 Btu — compared with about 118,000 Btu for a gallon of gas....... Here we loose over 30% of the potential energy just by deluting it with 85% of natural products, and we are still stuck using unreplaceable fuels.

    A gallon of Petrol Diesel yields 139,000 BTU versus 132,000 from 100% grown from the sun Biodiesel, not just 85% natural products.....
    Here we have a loss of 6% in power and we are using a 100% natural solution that provides much better gas mileage than unleaded due to the amount of torque it can provide in a really large gear, making the engine work much less. Biodiesel is much easier to make, you can do it yourself in your backyard using a vegetable press machine.

    One last thing, if you ever need to go get an emission test done on your diesel, and you have already taken off you catalytic converter, go buy a couple of gallons of vegetable oil from the grocery store and put it in on an empty tank and they will find ZERO emmissions when they put it on the machine, and on your way there you may notice it runs quieter, smells better, and has a bit more power only because there is 87% less heat and friction on the engine.

    Seems obvious to me which way it should be going....
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    Farout, If you are unsure contact a lawyer and spend $150.00 to review the buy back before you accept it. You will be surprised how much the Service Manager is shading the truth about maintenance requirements of your CRD. Good Luck with whatever you do.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Goodcrd, I agree with you for contacting a lawyer. But depending on where you live, there is something here we call 'reputation'. It takes ages to build and three phone calls to destroy :sick:
    People in the automobile business know each other in an area of 100 miles. They are usually of the same age for a given size of dealership, will parade saying they 'got' a customer from competion and quietly put you down on a black list when you cause prejudice to their image.
    I, for example, am concerned with a ball joint recall: I didn't get any mail information from Jeep! I was just lucky (or well inspired) to be curious if not vicious during my wheel rotations and drivetrain inspections I religiously do every 5,000 miles. I phoned the dealership to have the ball joints replaced and discovered I had been selected for the F23 recall that you had in mid 2006. It's time for DC to use emails with their overseas agencies. :mad:
    Have you ever driven a vehicle expecting it's front end to dive into the asphalt? Seems unreal while driving in heavy trafic every day :sick:
  • bullheadbullhead Posts: 125
    "Biodiesel is much easier to make (than ethanol), you can do it yourself in your backyard using a vegetable press machine."

    When I entered this forum a year-and-a-half ago, I always tried to instill extreme wariness in folks about the product uniformity of biodiesel, because the cheap stuff is made from waste veg oil that is inherently highly non-uniform, batch-to-batch.

    Aside from the possible rapid degradation of engine seals from even the best biodiesel or biodiesel blends- and the potential for warranty problems- I have little complaint about some zeal for the stuff. But, I'm still very reserved about folks with financial interests in it slinging it like snake oil. Apologies to those who aren't. :blush: Impeachment to those who are ! :lemon:
  • Farout,

    You might want to source a slightly used '06 CRD Limited and swap them. If I remember correctly, you have a sport. Make the service center you trust the most do a complete run through an the '06. You are VERY aware of what troubles to look for. Make them transfer your warranty plan.

    Do this:
    1.) Makes DCX take the depreciation hit
    2.) Eliminates sales tax
    3.) Gives you the vehicle you "hopefully" enjoy
    4.) Keeps them a VERY loyal customer.
    5.) Gives you stability control and slightly plusher rig (you'll have to find an '05 if you want Trac-Loc)

    To me, this is VERY fair and probably overly so. Regarding Caribou's concern over lawyers, nobody said you had to tell them consulted legal resources. You've just done your due diligence. To think that DCX has not done their due diligence before talking to you our now no-handshake, litigious society would be a little naive.

    Doesn't matter what I do in these situations, my wife always thinks I should be "meaner." Sometimes I threaten them with having to deal with her instead of me :)
    One time, on an insurance claim, it worked. :surprise:

    My $.02 & good luck being Farout
    Boiler
  • I second this sound advice, if anything to keep you on this forum as a CRD customer/poster!! :)
  • Bullhead, Until you actually have the experience and personal research of using WVO or SVO I wouldnt expect anyone to understand why most types of Plant Oil has the same effect on a diesel engine. Allow me to explain that a diesel engine was CREATED to run on Plant Oil, in the day Rudolf Diesel put the idea together, Peanut Oil was the easiest to come by. Every Oil I have used in both my 01 Jetta TDI and 05 CRD have provided the same experience once correctly heated. My racor fuel filter sometimes gets chicken bones stuck in it, on occasion the oil I harvest for free is green, sometimes red, sometime black, or golden, with no descernable differences in power or smoke, and I believe the only smoke I have seen while operating on these oils were caused by the previous unused petrol diesel coating various mechanical parts. Some of those oils I have tried turn solid quicker than others in my fuel filter while sitting in the parking lot and I have experienced more than once that it must be melted using an antigelling additive you can get from Napa before it will flow like we need it. I am a computer guy, I work on email systems, so its not like I support anything or anyone specifically here, I just try to eliminate email spam, spam to me is like a gasoline engine, very little productive use. I just like to do research and the more I read about this stuff the more I dont understand why we dont take different turns with engine technology.

    One of the biggest challenges to auto makers today is how to make a diesel engine run on anything other than what it was evented to run on "plant oil". Using the waste from the unleaded gasoline refinement process creates extra soot in a diesel engine because this waste does not meet the flash point required for gasoline engines and is full of free radicals or broken/incomplete chemical structures, but it can still provide a sufficient pressure explosion in a diesel engine and they dont have to worry about disposing of that waste, why not just sell it to the public for their diesel engines? :confuse:

    :) Here is the one part that many not aware of. What is relatively constant with most WVO, or SVO, is that there is more lubricity in these fuels (causing engine seals to last longer than petrol diesel) because they have not been processed by today's common biodiesel manufacturing process of removing the fatty acids that cause gelling. Instead of removing the fatty acids that provide the extra lubricity you can have a kit that heats it up before being used so you dont need to mix Lye and Water in order to strip large polypeptides and fatty acid chains that cause a community thickening effect as the outside temp lowers. These chemical structures provide the extra lubricity to allow your engine less friction, heat, and allows all the engine seals to last twice as long than the engine manufacture predicts with petrol diesel.

    This is the same effect of using Propane in your diesel engine, yes it provides a big boost in power or even huge mpg increases of up to 10mpg but each valve rotation that receives a propane burst forces a bigger percentage, closer to 99% of the fuel in the chamber to explode including the extra lubricity on the cylinder walls that Diesel affords over a gas car thereby limiting the life of a diesel engine down to that of a gasoline engine. If you add additional thick fatty accid chains to the fuel you create an even thicker formula on the cylinder walls that only strengthen the seals and drastically cut the heat generated in the process because there is less explosion/friction directly on the metal surfaces.

    Engineering a design to suite these fuels is much simplier than engineering a Hyrdo engine, or even an electric engine, simply put that many consumers without any experience could create their own heating system that prevents problems with this fuel in lower temps and it doesnt require a PHD. :shades:

    Biodiesel manufacturing isnt the greatest thing discovered yet, but I support it because it uses 100% renewable sources. The problem is it still prevents consumers from having to be responsible for how and when they use these fuels, so in a sense it is a necessary evil. Take Ethanol, a very expensive much more complicated manufacturing process that uses close to 50% more crop to create the same amount of fuel. We should just get rid of the Gas engine that will never last as long as diesel because of the way it uses the fuel and the fuel it requires is obviously outdated.

    Someone please take this soap box away before it gets my into trouble... Thanks for reading, Mike
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    We have a couple of other soapboxes around here too. :-)

    Biodiesel vehicles

    How much does biodiesel lessen pollution?
  • Farout,
    Wow this is good news! Take the buy out and run, an offer like this rare and you should grab it. I'm in the same boat but the dealer has offered 50% of what I paid 10 months ago, I paid list no rebates. The dealer has given up in trying to repair my vehicle and stated if I want more to contact DC direct. Thats why I want out, no support and the whole experience has been frustrating. So the dealer calls to get me into something else, what really do they have, nothing I want from C, so they own the BMW dealership and I'll take an X3, they can work a deal, but loosing 50% in 10 months is retarded. They have a vehicle that can not be repaired but still try to take advantage when a guy's at the end of his rope and they know it, a greasy dealership that makes me sick. I countered I won't accept a ridicolus offer like this, I'll keep it but they have to repair the outstanding issues, he looks at me and says, I'll get back to you with something better. The CRD scares them. How and who do I call to get some external pressure put on this situation? Any advice from you will help. Thanks.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    twocycle2: Call customer EVERY time you go in for service! Make then aware that is not what you bought it for to be in the shop, and they can't work it out. I called every time we had a reflash or recall. If you document everything then they (customer care) has first hand evidence of what you say is true.
    Now after going over the Schedule B which NO ONE can say they are a Schedule A, the cost if taken to a DCX dealer it would cost $1200. in the first 25,000 miles. This is plane outrageous! Not to mention we have been to the dealer 23 times and only two times ago did a service writer mention that our drive line warranty was void because= we are not keeping up proper upkeep.
    Our service manager said DCX is really asking for service history on many vehicles. If the dealer can't prove the schedule was adhered to then they don't pay. This is in my opinion because DCX is experiencing a change in how things are done. Heck we have a Max Care 5 year 100,00 mile warranty Service Contract that means not much unless you spend bucks that seem to me as over due stuff.
    I think we are considering a Patroit or a Compass AWD. We really feel drained and worn out with this. We are holding tough and will agree to nothing less than we come out for the better or even, or they must repair it 100%. Good luck.

    Farout.
  • last thursday i went to lunch and the crd ran fine..i got in after we ate to return back to work...the crd would not do no more then 20mph...i made it to the dealer..about 2 miles away..left it..they called me the next morning and said it was running fine..what in the world..it just would not make rpms it is a 06 with 20k on it...to me it felt like a converter plugged or a egr valve stuck open..no codes were tripped..thanks
  • I used to have that problem when I first got my Jetta. On some diesels if you try to start it before the glow plugs have done their thing it wont run right, you just have to stop turn it off, pull key out and put it back in and turn it and wait for the glow plug light to go out and then start it. Should return to normal, sounds like it was in Limp home mode.
  • Mine did that and I don't know why. I pulled over into a grocery store parking lot. Shut it off, waited a minute, restarted and it ran fine. No codes. Never did it again.

    Glow plug suggestion sounds reasonable.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Is there a drain plug for these or do you have to remove the plate?

    Farout, there is a drain plug on the front differential. On the rear the plate needs to be removed or a suction device needs to be used to suck out the old oil through the filler hole. The best way is to remove the plate to make sure it is clean and inspect the internal parts. I use any reasonably priced synthetic gear oil.

    The first differential oil change should be done fairly early. After that, if the differential is broken in properly, no water gets in the oil and the oil hasn't been extremely hot it's pretty much the shelf life of the oil without heavy use.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    siberia: Thanks for the information. The engine jerking continues to come more often, We are still waiting to get the area rep. to respond, seems the dealer can't even reach him either. We are going to start driving our 1996 Dodge Neon (with 193,000 miles) at least it runs smoother and we are tired of fooling with the Green Beast for a while.

    Farout
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Farout.... I am sorry that you do not have a family help.
    The green beast has been good to you but the jerking can be air in the fuel or water in the filter, somebody can help you to do that; I wish that i could, well without you and the inmeasureable help that you have provide us life will be hard around here hope you stop sometime and talk to us like tire old dave, wish you that everything come well for your.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Farout, I'm going to my dealership thursday morning to have my ball joints changed. Drop me an email and give me a few details so I can ask them for advise. Perhaps this could help.
  • stbstb Posts: 31
    I have code p1256. Does any one know what it is? My list of codes does nt include 1200 -1299.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    This is a link I had laying around. Don't know if it applies. Your can check it out.

    http://www.troublecodes.net/OBD2/Pcodes.shtml

    P1252 Pedal Correlation PDS1 and LPDS High
    P1253 Pedal Correlation PDS1 and LPDS Low
    P1254 Pedal Correlation PDS2 and LPDS High
    P1255 Pedal Correlation PDS2 and LPDS Low
    P1256 Pedal Correlation PDS1 and HPDS
    P1257 Pedal Correlation PDS2 and HPDS
    P1258 Pedal Correlation PDS1 and PDS2
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Have a look here:
    http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/assets/public/implementation/air/ms/IM/OBD%20final%2- 0report.TCEQ_0196_12.pdf

    P1256 seems to be specific to diesel systems.
    Pedal Correlation PDS1 and HPDS is meaningless in all languages I came across.
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