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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • hamchamphamchamp Posts: 33
    farout. Well I think we are on our way. We have spoken to the District Manager, who wanted a VIN number or a VON number. We were at the dealership at this time. We picked out a Dakota, Quad, however this dealership doesn't have this one, but found one 45 miles away. I assume that is the VIN number that was given. Then the Impartial Service Group called and asked us to fax our title and a copy of the contract. Also she was aware of the $$$ that we will have to pay the dealer for the Dakota. This $$$ is very agreeable to us and very fair, which includes tax, and tags, etc. When I called the dealership to get the VIN number, he stated that the truck isn't going to be brought down to their dealership until they get the $$$ from the Impartial Service Group. So my concern is that it could be sold. ISG said this could take 10-30 business days. We had a Tow pkgs. on the Jeep, and want one on the Dakota. We don't want it dealership installed, because at the factory they beef up the tow pkg. Anyway that is where we are now. I had written to the State Attorney office of NC, they have a form to fill out, and they are watching and waiting to see how things progress. I think this was a very good thing to do, and I had read this on this forums. It seemed to get everyones attention. Good luck! to you :confuse: also. HamChamp.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    hamchamp: How many miles did you have on your CRD? What year was it? How much per mile did you wind up paying?
    We have faxed all the things ISG wanted, and ISG sent all the paper work to the dealer. The dealer felt we could finish it up next week, the Jeep Compass is a 150 miles away and the dealers have worked with each other several times before. We got have our own financing, but IGS or DCX is the one paying off the loan on the CRD. I sure hope it does not take much longer with this. How are you doing without a vehicle for 10 to 30 days? In our case ISG pays off City Financial Auto, and that's who is financing the Compass as well. ISG has transferred our Chrysler Service Contract to the Compass. The warranty has 70,000 miles left so that what DCX has agreed to extend our Max Care $0 ded. 70,000 or 5 year to the Compass. We can have the Tax and plates as well. I was really amazed at how DCX resolved the problems. We are wondering if the dealer which we bought our CRD from, and is handling all this paper work, if he will charge us his $75. DOC fee? It might be the case as we are not using Chrysler Financial.
    We were given the option to order exactally what we wanted but even with being put next in line at the factory it would take 8 to 10 week, and that just was not for us. The Compass has had about $300. increase from when they first started making them.

    Farout
  • hamchamphamchamp Posts: 33
    Farout, We have 22K on the 2005 Jeep. We purchased in 7/11/05. We have a clear title, so no payoff is involved. We don't have an extra warranty so we have no extra car to replace the Jeep. We are running around with my wifes Montana, which has 150,000 miles on it. Our grandkids live 3 hours from our house, which means that spring break we will be making the trip to bring the two little boys back with us. We got the Jeep, like everyone else, so we would have a reliable car. They never said anything about the mileage. just what we would owe on the Dakota that we picked out. IF they don't save us the Dakota, with the Tow Pkg. I guess we can spend the next 1/2 of the year waiting for a Dakota that we would order. We certainly don't want to do that. We are both senior citizens and would really like to enjoy the summer. 56 days and counting. That is this time. We had 4 other times in the shop since October 06. Yes, we have every piece of paper for each calimity. Stay in touch. HamChamp
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    hamchamp: We have a good number of things in common. We too are retired, and senior citizens. We bought the CRD because our 2005 Liberty Limited was lucky to get 14 to 17mpg. The limited had all the bells and whistles, and the heated seats were nice in the winter. But at the time when we traded our 05 Limited in on the CRD, diesel fuel was .25 cents than gasoline. WE did the math and it should have saved some money. But, we know that after Sep. 05 diesel fuel has remained a good bit higher than gasoline. So there was no real significant difference to save anything, but it cost us more in the scheme of things. Then add 25 trips for repair, and they still could not fix the main problems.... defective vehicle.
    We had a 02 Dakota quad Cab, and drove it for almost 94,000 miles. Only problem was Ball Joints, 4 times they were replaced under warranty. The Dakota got between 16 to 28 mpg, it was a 4x4 as well with the 4.7 V-8, it was an outstanding engine, and it had adequate power, I was glad we did not get the 3.7 V-6 that was offered as it would have been rather underpowered.

    Farout
  • bullheadbullhead Posts: 125
    Gosh !

    I hope you mean synthetic oils. Be clear. There was good agreement in this forum that a synthetic oil brings resistence to problems related to coking of oil on hot turbo-charger bearings.
  • h2odogh2odog Posts: 1
    My CRD has 48K miles, and has been in the shop 10 times in last 2 years for engine and driveline issues. Since last Friday, it's been in the shop for a leaking transfer case; last December, it was an engine light plus new torque converter plus ball joints (with no alignment & toe-in check?; be sure to check yours after they're done).

    I called Customer Care at 800-992-1997; they investigated, including a call to my dealer. After about 30 minutes, they concluded that there is no Buy Back after expiration of 3 yr/36K mile warrantee (7/70 doesn't count), and referred me to my manual's complaint procedures and my state attorney general.

    Anyone thinking of Buy Back, be aware of 3/36! That's apparently the DCX line in the sand...

    H2ODog
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    h2odog:"IF" you can prove that the serious issues began before the 36/36,000 point, you can file a lemon law in some states. I suggest you read back over this forum, might just help.

    farout
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    I was running an errand this evening and shortly after I left home, my CRD lost power, was bucking like mad and the trans shifted badly. No lights appeared on the dashboard. I limped the CRD home.

    I opened the hood and pulled off the engine cover and what did I find? The hose had popped off of the tube where it attached to the intake manifold. I promptly checked the other clamps and they were in good order. I cleaned the hose of oil, the clamp of oil and it took several attempts to make sure the hose stayed put. I have put a screw driver in the CRD just in case this happens again. I will call the dealer in the A.M. and order up new parts. If they say no, then I will try an old tried and true friend, Indian Head Gasket Shellac. That should do the trick. I just need to be careful that none of that stuff gets onto the exposed butterfly valve.

    To those of you with bucking issues, power loss, or misbehaving trans, check out those hose connections and make sure they are snug.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    This is kinda weird. Way back when you first talked about repositioning clamps and tightening hoses I followed your lead. A few days ago I checked the CAC hoses and 2 of the clamps were no longer tight and the other 2 still were tight. I tightened the 2 loose clamps and remember thinking that much looser and one of them might have popped off. Remarkably similar dissolution of assembly status, no?
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    I limped the CRD home.

    You're braver than I am! I would have attempted to fix the problem on the spot or have the CRD towed. Things can go from bad to extreme in very short order.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • If I am butting in, please say so and even though still look at this site while at edmunds, I will post no more. Did you get new design hoses for both sides? I believe caribou1 warned about overtightening the clamps and deformation of the plastic stub tubes (guilty here)of the intercooler as well as hose integrity issues by overtightening. Cleaned the hoses and butterfly with simple green twice but never had one pop off.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    I will post no more.

    You're always welcome! :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • kathekathe Posts: 2
    Have been reading about the fuel line and shuddering messages as my Liberty CRD has been having all that and more. I had the transmission problem before the recall and now the shuddering, air noise at windows, stalling, brakes, and fuel problems for the two years I have owned it. It is in the shop for the fuel again; this is the third time in 3 months. I love my CRD, really, but am seriously thinking of trading. Since the problems have been different I can't get it replaced, I don't think. When I read all the messages, I called the mechanic at the dealership and asked if he had heard of the fixes I read about and of course he said they would check that. Thanks for listening.
    :cry:
  • hamchamphamchamp Posts: 33
    Keep all your paperwork. It is better to have every thing in order if you ever need it. Look up your states Lemon Laws then you will be informed. Just a suggestion. PS we have a '05 Jeep in a heap at the dealership. :sick: 60 days today.

    DCX is involved, however, it appears that there is always another issue, and this isn't resolved yet.*60 days and 60 nights* Hamchamps'wife.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Nice to hear from you Dave.

    I stopped at the dealer yesterday on the way home from work as the same hose had popped off again from the flange on the intake manifold. I spoke with the diesel tech and he stated that the hoses are becoming problematic as they age. They become porous and spongy with time and exposure to heat and the oil vapors and thus must be replaced from time to time. I made an appointment to have them replaced (both) this coming Thursday. If anyone is curious, they are around $100 each! When I made the appointment, the service writer told me that they are seeing more turbo failures too. They are not sure if it is a design issue or a bad materials issue. I will be keeping the old hoses and will try to have some custom made from braided stainless steel to take care of the hose issue once and for all.

    Today I cleaned the business end of the hose that keeps popping off along with the metal flange on the intake manifold. I applied some "Aviation Form-a-Gasket cement" on both the inside of the hose and around the flange, let them setup for three minutes, and then reassembled. the whole thing. Testing comes later today or tomorrow.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Suggest that "IF" you have less than 36000 miles you just might be able to get a buy back from DCX. Ask the 1800 992 1997 customer care line to help you if they can. Again you must have positive proof of what you state. We had 25 trips to the dealer in 17 months and 29,000. We had door leaking so much air that it made our 1996 Dodge Neon look real quiet. The engine bucked, shuddered, or jerked, what ever you call it anyway. The speed control kicked out when we went into a dip in the road, and the fuel gauge was so inaccurate. They replaced the sending unit in the tank 4 times and each time was no better than the one before. The front passenger seat belt locked up twice and was replaced each time. After the F-37 recall we lost power really noticeable.
    DCX bought ours back, and we are to pick up our Jeep Compass 4x4 on april 2, this Monday. I will say they have been really very nice in resolving our problem with the CRD. I am sure we are in the minority with such problems. We are retired and this was a real nightmare, but DCX is making things right.

    Good luck.

    farout
  • crdnotcrdnot Posts: 3
    Dear CRD Owners,
    My purpose of posting this correspondence to to share my experiences thus far with my 05 CRD and the response I received (or not received) from DC. Maybe it will help and maybe it won;t but I know I will feel better. I welcome your comments

    CRDNOT

    January 2, 2007

    DaimlerChrysler Corporation

    Re: Customer Satisfaction Notification F37

    Dear DaimlerChrysler:

    It is obvious by the content of your recall notice F37 that the torque converter situation is not the problem but is a symptom of the real problem. Your desire to reprogram the engine and transmission control modules to reduce the torque is an obvious admission of your failure to properly engineer a match between the 2.8L turbo diesel and your transmission. Your recall notice appears to have been written by your Marketing and Accounting departments as opposed to Engineering as you have not identified the problem with the transmission.

    My decision to purchase the CRD was driven by the need for the published 5000lb towing capacity and the power/fuel economy and longevity of a diesel engine. Reducing the power of the engine I purchased as a solution to your mismatching the driveline is totally unacceptable. In effect, through tampering with the computer settings you will actually change the product I purchased after the fact. I will not give you permission to change my product.

    If DaimlerChrysler is truly interested in customer satisfaction you will take the following steps relative to repairs on my vehicle.

    1. You do not have my permission to change the engine I purchased through tampering with the engine management system.
    2. The torque converter and transmission is to be replaced in its entirety as a unit shipped from DaimlerChrysler. Your recall notice suggests that the transmission may be damaged which would require an additional hour of service repair time. It is clear that this will be left entirely to the discretion of a service technician who has been allocated 1 hour to complete repairs on transmission damage. If I now have proof that my confidence in DaimlerChrysler to correctly engineer this vehicle was misplaced, I certainly will not trust “bench work” for a quick fix on my transmission. You have offered and I have purchased a vehicle with a driveline capable of lasting 300-400,000 miles. Yet your transmission now must be replaced at 30,000 miles.
    3. The only legitimate position for DaimlerChrysler at this point will be to replace the transmission and to warrant their performance for the life of the engine. This is a reasonable expectation for anyone purchasing a vehicle. Anything less is shoddy engineering.
    4. If for some reason you fail to see the benefit to both DaimlerChrysler and their customers by handling this matter in the above fashion I would expect you to take back my vehicle and refund my purchase price.

    I also want to mention that I called your Michigan based customer service number last week on two occasions to discuss this recall and to discuss the use of Bio Diesel fuel in my CRD. Regarding the Bio Diesel, I was told I couldn’t use any Bio Diesel fuel in my vehicle. When I asked the person to confirm their data they reconfirmed that Bio Diesel was not approved for my CRD. I found this quite interesting since DaimlerChrysler touted in several media markets the CRD introduction with a tank of B5. Maybe your customer service staff should research your announcements on the web?

    With regard to my conversation about the recall I asked specifically for answers on what caused this recall action, what exactly was the anticipated damage to my transmission, what would the end result of the repairs do to the torque, and towing capacity vs. what was sold to me. I was told my inquiry was to be directed by me to the local service manager, as my questions were too technical. I asked for a supervisor or a technician as I felt my questions were not too technical for my understanding! I was again referred to my local dealer service manager. I also specifically asked for a new transmission as well as a new torque converter. I was told to take this up with my local dealer service manager. I called my local dealer to inquire on the above and I was told I would have to contact DaimlerChrysler. Who should I call KIA?

    I expect an immediate reply to my communication. I will not give my local dealer permission to proceed with any repairs until I have had your positive response to this.

    I am extremely disappointed in the way DaimlerChrysler has handled this recall thus far. I suggest you check what is being said on the blogs about the CRD and this recall. . . what a shame.

    Your failure to properly engineer the driveline has already diminished the value of my purchase. Your quality is best measured by the long-term value of your products. This is your opportunity to make a statement to those owners who have trusted you and to the automotive industry that DaimlerChrysler is credible and deserving of the business.

    March 16, 2007

    DaimlerChrysler Corporation

    Customer Satisfaction Notice F37

    This letter represents the second written attempt and the sixth correspondence regarding my request for satisfaction regarding the recall on my 2005 JEEP Liberty CRD. After making two phone calls I received a call back from your customer service (technical support) dept to discuss my previous written correspondence.

    At the core of my problem is the reluctance of DaimlerChrysler to fully disclose the nature of the engineering problems relative to the driveline for the diesel as well as, engineering specifics relative to the true effect of the changes made, not only to the transmission but of greater concern to the engine management system.

    Your recall notice F37 indicates a potential problem for the torque converter/transmission, but states that DaimlerChrysler technicians will make a change in the engine management system resulting in a loss of power to provide a longer service life to the transmission. By all reason of logic it is evident that by suggesting this fix you are obviously indicating that the transmission was not properly matched to the performance characteristics of the CRD engine. This vehicle was purchased in confidence based on four primary factors:
    1. The belief that DaimlerChrysler had enough experience to properly engineer a diesel driveline.
    2. The fuel economy of a diesel engine relevant to gasoline.
    3. Longevity of diesel drivelines.
    4. Your stated 295 ft lbs of torque, which would translate into a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs.

    On February 6, 2007 I spoke with you directly, the following is a transcript of that conversation.

    Q. Why tamper with the engine management system if the transmission may have problems.
    A. As the recall states to extend the service life of the transmission.

    Q. So if nothing is done the transmission could fail prematurely.
    A. The recall is for the torque
  • crdnotcrdnot Posts: 3
    Continued...
    On February 6, 2007 I spoke with you directly, the following is a transcript of that conversation.

    Q. Why tamper with the engine management system if the transmission may have problems.
    A. As the recall states to extend the service life of the transmission.

    Q. So if nothing is done the transmission could fail prematurely.
    A. The recall is for the torque converter; the transmission will be inspected for damage upon removal.

    Q. What is the specific power and torque loss based on the engine remapping?
    A. Engine performance would not change.

    Q. How can you say engine performance will not change when you have reduced the load on the transmission by altering the engine mapping? The engineers must have some basis for the change of the settings and the effect of those changes. Again, what are the revised horsepower and torque measurements after the changes?
    A. Engineers state you will not notice any difference in torque or performance with the changes.

    Q. You have not answered my questions. Am I to assume that the engineering department has not tested and measured the effects of the change that they are requiring all dealers to do on these vehicles? That would be as ludicrous as a new product launch with a turbo diesel engine vehicle and not properly testing the balance of the driveline that is mated to that engine?
    A. The engineers have indicated a 20 ft lb of torque drop at wide-open throttle.

    Q. Why did you tell me earlier that engine performance would not change? Based on all that has been said I am formally requesting that you have engineering provide to me graphs of the horsepower and torque curves across the entire RPM range, both before and after the required changes.
    A. We cannot provide that as it is information proprietary to DaimlerChrysler.

    Response:
    Your marketing department did not think it was proprietary when they sold me the benefit of 295 ft lbs of torque and 5,000 lbs of towing capacity.

    Q. So what will the new towing capacity be?
    A. I do not have that information.

    Q. Would you indicate in your file reference that I requested documentation of the results from engineering regarding the horsepower, torque, and revised towing capacity of the CRD JEEP Liberty?
    A. Yes I will.

    Response:
    I do not think we have anything further to discuss at this point. Please forward the requested information – thank you.

    A. You are welcome.

    Based on the preceding exchange and the entire correspondence record it is obvious that DaimlerChrysler is not interested in fully disclosing the nature of this problem or the result of their “fix”. They are interested in diminishing the performance of the vehicle I purchased in good faith, to place a low cost fix on a significant problem with the mismatch of the engine with the balance of the driveline.

    Since this discussion on February 6, 2007 the entire differential assembly had to be replaced in an emergency repair as it failed within the course of 150 miles.

    In my previous correspondence I suggested a fair and reasonable solution, which included an extended warranty on the driveline.

    Given the lack of response and cooperation from DaimlerChrysler, the five plus weeks I have waited to receive your follow up information, correspondence or any acknowledgement in writing as requested of my concerns; I request the immediate repurchase of my vehicle for the full price I paid.

    I expect your response within a reasonable timeframe and I expect it in written form as well as verbal acknowledgement of receipt of this letter.

    I am still waiting their response.
  • crdnotcrdnot Posts: 3
    CONTINUED...

    Q. So if nothing is done the transmission could fail prematurely.
    A. The recall is for the torque converter; the transmission will be inspected for damage upon removal.

    Q. What is the specific power and torque loss based on the engine remapping?
    A. Engine performance would not change.

    Q. How can you say engine performance will not change when you have reduced the load on the transmission by altering the engine mapping? The engineers must have some basis for the change of the settings and the effect of those changes. Again, what are the revised horsepower and torque measurements after the changes?
    A. Engineers state you will not notice any difference in torque or performance with the changes.

    Q. You have not answered my questions. Am I to assume that the engineering department has not tested and measured the effects of the change that they are requiring all dealers to do on these vehicles? That would be as ludicrous as a new product launch with a turbo diesel engine vehicle and not properly testing the balance of the driveline that is mated to that engine?
    A. The engineers have indicated a 20 ft lb of torque drop at wide-open throttle.

    Q. Why did you tell me earlier that engine performance would not change? Based on all that has been said I am formally requesting that you have engineering provide to me graphs of the horsepower and torque curves across the entire RPM range, both before and after the required changes.
    A. We cannot provide that as it is information proprietary to DaimlerChrysler.

    Response:
    Your marketing department did not think it was proprietary when they sold me the benefit of 295 ft lbs of torque and 5,000 lbs of towing capacity.

    Q. So what will the new towing capacity be?
    A. I do not have that information.

    Q. Would you indicate in your file reference that I requested documentation of the results from engineering regarding the horsepower, torque, and revised towing capacity of the CRD JEEP Liberty?
    A. Yes I will.

    Response:
    I do not think we have anything further to discuss at this point. Please forward the requested information – thank you.

    A. You are welcome.

    Based on the preceding exchange and the entire correspondence record it is obvious that DaimlerChrysler is not interested in fully disclosing the nature of this problem or the result of their “fix”. They are interested in diminishing the performance of the vehicle I purchased in good faith, to place a low cost fix on a significant problem with the mismatch of the engine with the balance of the driveline.

    Since this discussion on February 6, 2007 the entire differential assembly had to be replaced in an emergency repair as it failed within the course of 150 miles.

    In my previous correspondence I suggested a fair and reasonable solution, which included an extended warranty on the driveline.

    Given the lack of response and cooperation from DaimlerChrysler, the five plus weeks I have waited to receive your follow up information, correspondence or any acknowledgement in writing as requested of my concerns; I request the immediate repurchase of my vehicle for the full price I paid.

    I expect your response within a reasonable timeframe and I expect it in written form as well as verbal acknowledgement of receipt of this letter.

    I am still waiting their response.
  • I used to have some Indian Head from the 50's/60's and was going to mention it. There are the new design hoses, I thought you got them or was it rfcrd at lost. I still remember your posts long long ago about your Isuzu diesel and your enlightenment for us newbies about thin oil being passed thru the turbo (and the ccv). While the vgt is good in theory, when soot and cokable oil mix, its' disassembly and cleaning might become part of the ?k miles maintenance schedule. I was hoping (and may have been working) that redline diesel additive and poe oil would act as a liquid cleaner to self-clean the turbo(even thought about MMO - naptha and wintergreen oil?). Are the bearings failing from thin oil and/or lack of cool down.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Hi winter2,
    - The hose going to the intake manifold is ~4" shorter on the models equipped with EGR airflow control valve. This makes the hose stiffer.
    - Your engine is now mounted on 'hydraulic' vibration dampers if I remember. Damping is made smoother by allowing more movement.
    When you put all this together, you get more movement for the engine and a shorter hose. This is a miss match ;)
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Hi winter2,
    - The hose going to the intake manifold is ~4" shorter on the models equipped with EGR airflow control valve. This makes the hose stiffer.
    - Your engine is now mounted on 'hydraulic' vibration dampers if I remember. Damping is made smoother by allowing more movement.
    When you put all this together, you get more movement for the engine and a shorter hose. This is a miss match ;)
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    They become porous and spongy with time and exposure to heat and the oil vapors...

    This explains why clamps are loosening over time. The hoses are giving in to the pressure of the clamp. We need to find an after market solution or more reasonably priced OEM hoses. :sick:
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    I would settle for a set of these:
    http://www.siliconhoses.com/gallery.asp

    The 'HUMP hose' is even better to connect onto the EGR airflow control valve:
    http://www.boostcontroller.com/index.php?category=34
  • hamchamphamchamp Posts: 33
    Well said and well written. I can't agree more. They use the term "engineers" loosely :mad: :mad: Hamchamp
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Posts: 55
    Crdnot,

    Thank you for sharing the correspondence...DCX's response sounds like the typical "prepared statement" political response. It brings me to this observation, though.....my 2006 is not on the list for the F37. So, one of the two must be true: 1) There is actually a mechanical/design "fix" that was implemented on later units. If so, then DCX has simply taken the cheaper way out with the F37 recall instead of actually replacing the transmissions. OR 2) Mine had already been "reprogrammed" and left the dealer providing less power/torque than stated in the marketing material. If I'm not mistaken, didn't Ford get sued over that same thing with the Cobra not providing the advertised HP ratings a few years ago?

    Any thoughts on this?
    Twocycle2
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Posts: 55
    Caribou1,

    I know this has been discussed before, but what automatic tranny is used in the European models? Is it the same as the US version? If not, who makes the tranny and how is it holding up?

    It just seems like almost all of the problems the US versions have deal with the parts that were "adapted" for use in the US.....obviously, not enough testing took place.

    Twocycle2
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Posts: 55
    This will be my final post this evening, I promise.....what does everyone think about future resale of our CRD's? Reason I ask, right now, a CRD actually carries a small premium in price over a gas liberty....but what about in the future? If this board is any indication of the problem rate, and the media or consumer reports gets a hold of these problems, one negative news story could kill our resale value (consumer reports, like them or hate them, does have a large impact on the success or failure of products). I'm trying to decide if I should sell it now and take a modest hit, or keep it another year and risk taking a major hit. I still really like my CRD, but I grow more and more concerned about it's future every day.

    Thx for the input!
    Twocycle2
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