Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





If you experience loading issues with the login/register form, please completely disable ad blocker or use an incognito or in-private window to log in.

Jeep Liberty Diesel

1291292294296297373

Comments

  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    I don't think you are wrong, Synlubes. I think the oil temperature data that I posted from my CRD proves that you are probably correct with that perspective on the CRD as well. I took the temperature readings out of curiosity and shared them with the forum. Beyond that, I have no agenda.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    The differential temperature should be proportional to the effort and time.

    The data seems to indicate that the differential temperature is proportional to effort and ambient temperature in this instance. Time is more important when the effort exceeds the ability of the housing to dissipate heat.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Here again, for the rear differential, the IR emissivity (ability to collect and absorb heat without any other means of contact besides ambient air) plays it's role. The cast iron differential is designed for that, as long as it is kept clean and people don't chrome plate it for looks. I once polished my motorcycle engine, and the result was disastrous!
    Usually, if you can't keep your hand near a differential (or gearbox) after a few hours of 'normal' running, you need to revisit the viscosity approach: either the oil film covering the gear teeth contact surfaces allows metal to metal friction or the lubricant is too thick (high viscosity). Our new high contact pressure multi grade synthetic oils make wonders here as long as you don't need the full effect of the differential locking mechanism when you have one. High contact pressure oil will fight against the mechanical parts needing to match under a fixed spring pressure.
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    you are right again chrome oil filters on motorcycles run about three degrees hotter
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Yes! You are right again, about diversionary information that has nothing to do with a simple man leisurely cruising a CRD down the highway on a beautiful spring day who stopped to smell the dandy lions and take a few simple temperature measurements.

    Here is a puzzler for you Caribou1 or anyone else:

    Initial tire pressures in all 4 tires were equal as possible without parallax. At the first stop, the tire temperatures were: RR=80, LR=85, LF=95 and RF=90 - rounded a bit. :surprise: Took multiple readings around the tires to eliminate surface variation which was minimal.

    I have an answer, you first.
  • jimhemijimhemi Posts: 223
    :lemon: Add me to the list.
    After all of this time by little CRD is letting me down. I love the little guy but it's now in the shop for the second time in 30 days.
    The first time it was in for two weeks as they replaced the ball joints and waited on parts to completely rebuild the trans.
    After driving it for a few weeks I have gotten a wicked shudder that many in here have complained about. Now I know what you were all talking about. With only 15,700 on an 2006 I never thought I would have these kind of issues, after all this was my first new vehicle ever purchased.
    The engine is strong, love the torque and fuel economy, but what they did with the transmissions and butting everything up leaves some to the imagination.
    So I get to thinking and seeing what so many in here have gone through considering we are only a small few who post here. What will this truck be like in 3 years without a warranty? So I called Chrysler yesterday to be on record. I have the Lemon Law sheet for my state printed out so all I really need to do is fill it out should this problem re occur. I just figured I would vent just a bit as this is one of the few groups of people that actually share in the passion of a little diesel.
  • anomiousanomious Posts: 170
    Hi! After getting the recalls, ball joints and TC, I had a horrible shudder and stalling... I found that the transmission was very low on fluid...After filling it, everything is great!

    I'm still having CCV problems. My hose from the turbo to the CAC is oily on the outside... Some food for thought! My XJ has a tiny orfice in the CCV system for blow-by gassed to pass through, I am thinking that the diesel has way too much flow and that the flow is pulling the oil through before it can settle out. Comments ??? :)

    Thanks! LK
  • jimhemijimhemi Posts: 223
    I wish I knew what all of that was, I have yet to take the plastic cover off the top of my engine. I'm the only maniac in here that changes his oil(Mobile One 5W-40) every 3,000+ miles according to the severe service requirements in the book.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    I have an answer, you first.

    My first guess is that the front tires carry a heavier load and you made more right turns than left. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Siberia,
    I think free open minded discussions can help understanding. Have you experienced professional "brain storming"? Participants often discover new fields of interest, during their paid working hours. This gives them time to listen, like this forum in a certain way.

    Here are my thoughts about your question:
    I logged my tire wear during 35,000 miles to understand how the BFGs would behave. Every 5,000 miles I rotated the five wheels and identified them on a spreadsheet. The same applies for brake wear; it only takes a few minutes once the wheel is off.

    What did I notice?
    - My LR always had more wear than the 3 others that were in use. This makes me think the left side of the truck could slightly be out of balance due to the weight of the driver.

    When the roads are slippery, in 2WD my truck mainly spins on itself in the counter clockwise direction. The RR wheel should thus be more relaxed than the LR that's initiating the CCW twist. This could also be an explanation to more wear and heat on the LR wheel. This also occurs in right hand curves at 50 mph and more. The truck behaves like a crab on rainy days ;)

    The front wheels stand by the heat of the engine compartment. In addition to that, the engine and driver shift the center of gravity to the front. On a normal road in 2WD at stable speed, friction driven front wheels should accumulate more heat than the rear wheels that have better contact with the pavement.

    Usually air pressure will increase due to the amplitude of tire deformation / load being too important. If I remember correctly the specs, we should have 60% of the weight up front. This could also explain your situation.

    My tires have a load index of 107 (min value). I've not been able to detect different pressures, but they do ride harder than the original.
  • boilermaker2boilermaker2 Posts: 131
    Left side is hotter than the right and the front is hotter than the rear. The left side is 5 deg hotter than the right and the front is 10 degrees warmer than the rear (from the same side). My guess was that you drove in one direction, predominantly for a long (relative) period of time so that the left is 5 degrees hotter than the right due to the sun. For instance, you took a trip northward in the afternoon. The front is hotter than then rear due to the weight they are carrying.

    Simple problem, simple answer, from one simple guy to another.

    How'd I do?
    Boiler
  • boilermaker2boilermaker2 Posts: 131
    Same thing happened to me. According to my tech, most DCX vehicle have their tranny fluid level checked with the vehicle hot, running and the transmission in Drive. OUR liberty is checked with the vehicle hot, running and the transmission in Park.

    Anyway, it would shudder when the engine was cold(relative)and would shake and sometimes stall when approaching a stop...I wrote about this some time ago.

    Well, the tranny fluid had not heated and expanded when cold so the it would suck air, literally, in this slow down mode and mess things up. When the jeep was hot, the problem was still there but the expanded fluid masks the problem.

    After 12k miles, it started doing it again w/i the last two week. I checked and the tranny was a full quart low. I will repost if it still shudders.

    Boiler
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    you may be on to something i went to synthetic fluid and never had any moor shudder
  • anomiousanomious Posts: 170
    I'm confused... :confuse:
    Isn't all ATF+4 synthetic??

    I bought Valvoline, it says "shudder protection"
    right on the bottle!!

    LK
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    no very few transmission oils are synthetic but they are going to them specs are getting tougher all the time within two to three years they will al be synthetic
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Good morning boiler,
    Simple problem, simple answer, from one simple guy to another.
    I just found this 'simple' study explaining the effects of aerodynamic coupling of a vehicle to the road (for those who can read french):
    http://www.cnam.fr/maths/Membres/wilk/Giens95/6pagespourcongres.htm

    This document describes how the weight of a vehicle is distributed on it's 4 wheels, and explains the reaction of suspensions using a spring and a standard shock absorber.

    Assuming we drive on the right hand side of the road, the time needed to reach an even weight repartition on the 4 wheels is about 15 seconds after a change of direction. During this stabilization period, the left wheels carry more weight than the right wheels. This is the result of the shock absorbers doing their job. During this time the left wheels also increase their temperature.

    It would be interesting to have the input from a foreign poster driving on the other side of the road. UK perhaps?
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    most of my friends drive on your side of the road after we have a few beers i will have to ask someone else have a nice day
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Synlubes, I always make the effort to drive on the right side of the road. The police stands too often in the middle :P
  • jimhemijimhemi Posts: 223
    I had my 71 Charger Trans rebuilt years ago. When the engine/trans was cold it would slip and "neutral drop" the tires all of the time. I kept going back to the trans place that did the work and they thought I was nuts because by the time I got there the car had heat in her.
    Same as this, warm the fluids had expanded and went through the pump and converter no problem, but cold was a whole diff animal. Turned out the trans dipstick was broken and she was over a qt. low. New dipstick and the right amount of fluid fixed it.
    I hope this is the simple problem although I have my doubts with regards to all of the posts in here :sick:
    Just worried more about the long term use of this little beast.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Good answers all. I guess that sometimes what makes a puzzle a puzzle is the details that are left out or not thought of. I don’t intend for the following to sound presumptuous because there is no reason to believe that I know “a priori” the only correct answer.

    My first guess is that the front tires carry a heavier load and you made more right turns than left.

    Tidester, I thought of the front tires carrying a heavier load but I did not think about the turns leaving the interstate. I made three right hand turns and three left hand turns before stopping. I also made three downhill gentle stops – all turns (not so gentle) and stops close together. I believe that the heavier load on the front, the energy absorbed making 6 turns and the 3 stops (assuming more braking on the front) explain the generally warmer front tires. I give Tidester high marks for thinking about turns and myself low marks for not thinking about turns. I am not sure if the braking argument deserves much credit.

    My guess was that you drove in one direction, predominantly for a long (relative) period of time so that the left is 5 degrees hotter than the right due to the sun.

    I always check my tire pressures before a long trip to make sure the pressures are equal and proper. One day I backed out of the garage before loading gear and the vehicle sat in the sun for about an hour before I checked the tire pressure. The tires on the sunny side were 2 pounds higher and the sunny side tires were quite warm to the touch. I did in fact drive predominantly for a long period of time with the sun on the left. So, high marks Boilermaker2 for bringing in the variable that I believe explains the generally warmer tires on the left as you describe the exact circumstance. A strong predominant wind from the right side could have loaded the left, but that was not the case.

    The front wheels stand by the heat of the engine compartment. In addition to that, the engine and driver shift the center of gravity to the front. On a normal road in 2WD at stable speed, friction driven front wheels should accumulate more heat than the rear wheels that have better contact with the pavement.

    Once again, Caribou1, I give myself low marks for not thinking about the heat of the engine (or the exhaust) and you high marks for same. This could, in fact, be part of the solution to the puzzle along with more weight on the front as previously mentioned. The front differential is quite close to the engine and heat could be conduced through the front axles to the front wheels and maybe created a little by the front axles. Warm air is coming off the radiator, charged air cooler and air conditioning condenser going downward and maybe being squished outward by the bottom shield - contributing to generally warmer front tires.

    In a nutshell, my answer was sun on the left, more weight on the front and braking. I think this forum can brainstorm! ;)
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    I think free open minded discussions can help understanding. Have you experienced professional "brain storming"? Participants often discover new fields of interest, during their paid working hours.

    Yes, I have. And, it is with some restraint that I do not respond beyond :P, said laughing.

    Unfortunately, I cannot read French. I submit that the following is the salient CRD equation:

    Happiness = Reality – Expectations :)
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Siberia,
    Initially I imagined you would have had a "simple" emissions control system in the US, similar to the one I have on my engine. This forum showed me how you guys have to struggle and worry to keep your investment on the road.

    The MY 2003 of the CRD is well beyond my expectations of a diesel powered vehicle, and I've had diesels for ~25 years.

    I would have said:
    Happiness = CRD Reality compared to Experience :blush:
    I lost my expectations 3 minutes after I shifted the CRD demo truck into "Drive".

    Today I have no answer for an equivalent replacement vehicle, I'm bluffed.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    I understand what you mean and I agree completely. My CRD reality has equaled or exceeded my expectations in every category except the EGR valve - the good still far outweighs the bad. I just finished another maintenance interval and I plan on removing and cleaning the EGR valve prior to the next oil change to maybe avoid a failure or at least satisfy some curiosity.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Oil on the outside of the hose from the turbo to the aftercooler is as sign that you need to replace that hose in the very near future. While you are at it, replace the hose from the aftercooler to the intake too. If you do not replace it, there is a good chance it will either rupture or keep popping off making a big mess, covering everything with oil.

    According to the technician I use, this is becoming an issue with our CRD's. The hoses become saturated from the inside out and there is nothing one can do except replace the hoses under warranty. Caribou mentioned a company or two that makes hoses that are supposedly immune to this problem. I may have some hoses made from braided stainless steel with custom connectors and do away with the problem altogether.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    When you clean the EGR system, check for the little motor that drives the mixing flap of the Airflow Control Valve. I'm almost certain the problem lies here. The plastic housing that carries the contacts and position sensor may deform due to heat and penetration of oil fumes.
    Several forums mention the simplicity of the exhaust valve mechanism. All I can say is I left mine aside and haven't had a single hiccup since. :blush:
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    after reading about these hoses I just had to drop a line, ok? Right off from the first the cooler hose was dripping oil all over the bottom of the hose. They replaced it, but the thec said the hose he put in was a different hose that had something inside that prevented blowout oil and would last. Well it lasted for more than 27,000 miles.
    Last week we took our Compass infor the 3,000 mile oil change, we were told that DCX has bought back a number of the CRD's. I don't blame the engine for our problems, I blame the programs that DCX has running all the other computers. We had so many re-flashes to re-flash a re-flash that did not do as they thought it should. Follow me????LOL.
    We did see the second CRD the other day. What is really odd, the week after we bought our CRD the price of diesel sky rocketed. The week after we had our bought back from DCX the diesel fuel dropped below gasoline! Rather odd.
    I saw a CRD on E-BAY MOTORS that said it got 33 to 35 mpg! I had to tell him he was over stating the mpg. I am not sure if he got the $25,000 he was asking.

    farout
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Nice to hear from you farout.

    My CRD will be turning 20K miles old soon and I still remain quite pleased with it. Fuel economy continues to improve and my daily commute to work in metro D.C. traffic consistently yields 22 to 24 MPG. The CRD, at least mine, remains satisfyingly reliable. The dealer was gracious enough to give me the hoses, which I installed myself. I returned the old ones and my work was inspected by a tech at the dealer who found it to be correctly done. When I had the hoses done the first time, the original ones were replaced by an upgraded version and that did not work to well either.

    I have only had three computer flashes done, one very early on and two associated with the F37 recall.

    DCX did test the market with us. I believe though that the test was a success for them. In some ways I see the failure of your CRD as a failure of the dealer and the technician. They just did not go far enough to resolve the problems you were having. The CRD tech at the dealer I use told me that they see the CRD's less than the gasser Libertys and they have had fewer over issues with the CRD than the gasser. They sold about forty or fifty of them over the two years it was available. None of them have been re-purchased by DCX.

    At present I am enjoying the relatively lower price of diesel fuel versus regular unleaded, about a twenty cent difference at some stations.

    I hope you are enjoying your Compass.
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    my crd been about the same as yours egr vave about ten thousand miles torque converter and pump at eighteen thousand miles no problem sense just turned thirty thousand miles and like you diesel finly under gas about twenty cents mobil distributor thinks diesel will stay down under gas was to high to start with trying to recover cost for low sulphur hope farout has good luck with his compass
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    What is really odd, the week after we bought our CRD the price of diesel sky rocketed. The week after we had our bought back from DCX the diesel fuel dropped below gasoline! Rather odd.

    Farout, I always thought you were the one. :D Good luck with the Compass.
  • steve05steve05 Posts: 52
    Also I might say "Good to hear from you Farout!" Hope the new set of wheels has as much personality as the CRD - well, maybe not. I just had EGR #3 put in, and THEN the dealer discover the "EGR flow control valve" was also NFG. I talked to the service manager and the tech and asked them why the EGRs continue to fail. I said to them I couldn't believe that DCX had a bad "Batch" of EGR valves 2 years after production. I then stated that simply replacing the EGR time after time was like curing a sinus infection with a kleenex - the symptom goes away for a spell, but the problem hasn't been addressed. They actually gave me a nervous look, and muttered something about lack of support from the factory, then changed the subject immediatley. The upside is my mileage - which had dropped to about 15 on the highway - improved radically. I turned 15K that week, and the day after getting the jeep back, I drove from MI to TX. Mileage at 64 mph was an astonishing 28 mpg. I then proceeded to get 27.7, 29.6, and 28.3 over the next several days of driving thru TX and into NM. I'm pretty happy about that. New problems? Of course - I felt the "shudder" now at least a dozen times on this trip. Seems to be under very light load around 50 - 55 mph. Lovely. Just lovely. ::sigh::
    Oh well, have a good day all!
Sign In or Register to comment.