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Jeep Liberty Diesel



  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    edited March 2011
    Thank you winter2,
    I had completely forgotten I had crankcase ventilation.
    I did nothing on the Jeep last year, it was in much better shape than I was :sick: :sick: :sick:
  • unclebob9unclebob9 Posts: 103
    Many have installed a Pro-vent to remove this oil and keep it out of the turbo as well.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801

    I do not have a trailer of any kind.

    As to the torque converters on the CRD, the tech at the dealer told that they are pretty okay but the failures that they suffered early on were related to a transmission programming issue (too much slippage, I think). When this one fails, I will replace it with a Suncoast converter and add a shift kit. I am also going to have the tech put a drainplug into the pan of the trans so I can drain the fluid every 10K miles and add fresh.

    As my CRD stands, it has 77,594 miles on it.
  • unclebob9unclebob9 Posts: 103
    The converters were replaced under a re-call, and they detuned the engines at the same time to put less stress on the T.C. Many reoport that their MPG dropped alot when this re-call was preformed.
    As far as I can tell they replaced the original T..C.'s with one about the same in most cases, just posponing the failure until the rigs are out of warrenty. If you tow much, yours will fail sooner. The Suncoast is one of the best, but it is pricey, $800-$1000 just for the part. the drain plug kit cost about $8 at Napa auto parts. It is an easy install. The Trans-go kit is also a pretty easy install, (Under $40) only a bit messy (I did both myself in my driveway). It makes your shifts more positive, but I think the computer compensates for the kit to a degree over time. A provent kit which is a simple filter system costs about $160+ but is well worth it. Another easy install, except you need to build a bracket to mount it. It removes most of the oil from the CCV system that has destroyed many peoples turbos. It keeps your CRD breathing clean, and will increase your MPG at the same time. The LostJeets forum has tons if info and every CRD owner should check it out and start reading. These jeeps are not for the normal person. Corners were cut and adaptions were made for the U.S. market to for smog reasons that you can fix now and save your engine. For between $200 and $300, you may save your $10,000 engine, which is basically a very good little engine.
    hope this helps: Bob
  • The heater pump was the first belt driven item top left when looking under hood and belt was the external belt. Pump made a rattleing sound.
  • I havent even recived the usual questionaire I used to get for normal maintence items.
  • This morning I decided to take the Liberty Jeep a few extra miles on the way to work just to make double sure things were ok. Low and behold on comes the check engine icon light immediately after exiting the highway. Took it straight to Jeep dealership was informed the Mass Air Flow Sensor was bad. 200.00 or so was the quote. The water pump , belt and heater just set me back over 2300.00 last month. I wonder if any service contract or extended warranty insurance company would cover this vehicle? Seems the only way out now.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Before you spend $200.00 on a new MAF, pull the one in the Jeep and clean it. The MAF is located just beyond the air cleaner housing and all you will need is a screwdriver to remove it. Clean with some MAF cleaner (I use the one from CRC and it comes in a silver can). Use MAF cleaner only. It has been suggested that you disconnet a battery terminal before doing this.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    I will be getting my Jeep back on May 5th from the Florida dealer barring any problems.

    However, I spoke to my local dealer who had recently replaced an engine in a CRD that had a serious oil consumption problem. It took the tech about four or five days to swap out the engines. They did open the old engine (pulled the head) and what do you think they found? Oval, misshaped cylinder bores/sleeves, especially #4 cylinder. They have no clue as to how or what caused the issue or how long it took the sleeves to get into that condition.

    So for those of you with CRDs that eat oil, this might be a place to look/consider.
  • unclebob9unclebob9 Posts: 103
    had to be either a manufacture defect or it got REALLY hot!
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    I heard from the dealer this afternoon and the news was pretty bad. The engine is now out of the car and the damage is worse than expected.

    1. There is a fist sized hole in the engine block that they had not seen before. It is in the one-third.
    2. It appears as if the connecting rod did let go and the damage it did was bad.
    3. The turbo charger is now trash as the oil line is full of metal filings.
    4. The front two injectors were trashed and the head badly damaged (number 1 and number 2 cylinders).

    The dealer told me that they have a call into Chrysler to see what they should do as they did not expect to find this extra damage.

    I am hoping Chrysler coughs up the rest of the money to fix this thing but I will not know until tomorrow afternoon.
  • unclebob9unclebob9 Posts: 103
    Sounds like there is nothing to fix, whole new engine time.
    There is a used one on EBAY for $4400.
    I sure hope the dealer can get Chrysler to cough up for a new one!
    Best of luck
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Hi winter2,
    Months pass and you still don't know what will happen to the vehicle...

    Today European diesel fuel costs 1.50 Euro per liter (~8 USD /Gal), VW-Audi injector-pump technology plus their particle filters are a source of unpredictable costs for repair and sudden immobilization of the beautiful German cars, lung cancer observers point towards finer particles going deeper into peoples' lungs, etc, etc!

    In fine, why push these little engines to their limit?
    This is a waist of time, energy and a threat for ones' savings. "Farout" called his CRD the 'Green Beast' and I thing he was right, in the present context :(
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    edited April 2011

    Yesterday, the dealer told me that a connecting rod had failed but he did not say which one. "The failure was catastrophic", using the words of the service writer. I am hoping for some positive news sometime this afternoon. He even suggested I call my insurance company to see if they will pay anything.

    As to more that can go wrong, I agree to a point. It all depends on how much effort was put into building the systems as simply and as rugged as possible. As to finer particulates, what do you think comes out of the exhaust of gassers? Why is there a black film on the inside of the exhaust pipe?

    Caribou, your question about pushing these engines to their limits, think cost. To build these properly would add about another 50 kilos to the weight of the engine. With heavier components to move inside the engine, you use more fuel and produce more emissions. That added 50 kilos would significantly increase costs, cut profits and make it harder to sell diesel power. I will bet your bottom Euro that the governments in the EU had much to do with eliminating those 50 kilos of reliability. Thus your term "motorcycle parts" fits.

    As to color, my Jeep has not been all that bad except for being blue instead of green.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Winter2: I am stunned at your news! How amny miles did you have on that engine? What brand and weight of oil were you using? Were you using B-1- fuel? These were some risks I read about sometime ago.

    I read that Jeep will again use the same basic CRD engines in the Wrangler, and the GC Jeep. Infact there are some places that look for the Chrysler 300 to get a CRD. I wonder what they are doing differently?
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Hi Farout,

    So you like the news? ;) The engine has 77,594 miles on it. I was using Lubro Moly 5W-40 synthetic (okay for this engine based on their website). I had been using that oil for about 15,000 miles before the engine let go. I had not used any bIodiesel for sometime (> 20,000 miles).

    I am a little surprised that Chrysler is going to use VM engines in their domestic offerings since Fiat makes diesels also. I would have expected a conversion to the Fiat diesels.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    edited April 2011
    Well, the news is becoming more interesting. I have spoken with the Florida dealer a few more times and they are finding more and more wrong. During my last conversation yesterday, I was told that the oil cooler will need replacement because it is full of metal shavings and will need replacement along with a glow plug that was sheared off. According to the service writer, the dealer called Chrysler to see what they could do and where extra monies would come from for the additional parts. It is Easter weekend and so no decision until next week early. Another comment that was made came from an engineer who said the failure was caused by either no oil, or oil diluted with fuel. The problem is (one) that they have not done an oil analysis, (two) the dealer did not do a proper assessment of what the repairs would come to before announcing what I would pay and they/Chrysler would pay. As I see it (three) they are going to try to milk more money from me and that is not going to happen.

    A call to Chrysler headquarters is in the offing for Monday. I have already booked the flight and the Jeep best be ready and in 100% working order when I get down there on 5 May.

    At this point I am becoming quite miffed.
  • My sympathy for your drawn out anguish and possible ultimate loss.

    Thanks for keeping everyone updated.
  • unclebob9unclebob9 Posts: 103
    If the cylinders were out of round, Of Course you got diesel into the oil! But diesel in the oil did not cause the problem, it was a result of it!
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Well, the news gets better. I spoke with the dealer yesterday and they said that Chrysler would not pickup the extra cost for the parts. The dealer told me that the extra cost would be $8711.00 for the turbo, two injectors, a glow plug and the oil cooler. As I understood it this was the cost of the parts only. I was at my purchasing dealer yesterday and got a quote from them of $5241.00 for the same parts, or about $3500 difference.

    I am going to call a few other dealers in Florida to see what they charge. I have a funny feeling I am being taken for a ride, but I am going to see that the train gets de-railed, pronto.

    In the meantime, I have called my insurance company to see what they can do.

    Wish me luck.
  • unclebob9unclebob9 Posts: 103
    I would look on the internet overseas for parts.
    or go with a used engine. I see them on EBAY occassionally for between $4,000 and $5,000. po5TH-22111609365.1d
    you can do a search on and put it our all over the USA and Canada that you are looking for an engine.
    Much cheaper to install a complete engine than to repair yours.
    Best of luck: Bob
  • crash227crash227 Posts: 45
    My CRD has 120k miles on it now and I want to change the timing belt this spring/summer. I do most of my own repairs & maintenance with alot of help from this forum. I did a search of the forum but I did not find everything I think I need. I would appreciate it if anyone who has done this work or is sure of how to do it would add their input to this post. The service manual refers to some "special tools" requried for this job. Any suggestions on that would be great too.

    Also, it would be great if I could get some recommendations about what other work should be done while I am doing this job. The water pump seems like a unanimous yes. I still have my original EGR valve and have been thinking about disabling the thing before it goes bad. Maybe this is the time to do that. The Pro-Vent kit I have read about in this forum seems like another good thing to add to this job. Since every CRD owner will need to replace a timing belt or two, this Post could be very popular reference if we put everything together.

    Thanks in advance!
  • unclebob9unclebob9 Posts: 103
    The lostjeeps forum is where you need to look.
    The tools you refer to many say are not necessary, what they do is lock the cam into position. some asy that nothing moeve anyway, others use drill bits to place into the alignment homes.
    Mine has 76k on it and I am going to wait until around 120k as you have to do the job.
    There is another gut on the lostjeeps forum who has the machinist tools hand has re-designed the thermostat. The thermostat is a sealed unit that is over $100, where the actual working part inside is about a $8 part.
    What he does is cuts it apart and machines it so that it is a simple job to replace the working part inside. He charges $100 and a $100 core charge which he refunds when you send him your old thermostat housing. From then on it is only a $10 job and a simple exposed 3 bolt installation as opposed to a couple of hours changing out the big housing.
    There is also alot about the provent system on there, the provent will cost anywhere from $160 to $200, ther are several guys who have made there own, for very little, I picked up one on Ebay for $160, mainly because I did not wnat to mess with something that might drip oil on my driveway.
    An in-tank fuel pump is another nice upgrade. The Jeep is already wired for it and the directions are on the Lostjeeps forum website. I bought one on EBAy from a 2005 Dodge diesel truck for $20 and it was not hard to install. it is the fuel level sending unit wiht the fuel pump built in. Only trick was I needed to add 2 wire connections that I took from the unit I removed from my jeep (my jeep had 2 and the new one required 4, although both plugs are 4 wire, the jeep had 2 blanks and the new one needed 4, so by removing 2 from my old unit i soldered them into the new one and all was fine.
    if you do this, drive your jeep until the tank is low on fuel to get rid of the weight (you have to lower the fuel tank.
    Best of luck: bob
  • Great if you can do this yourself you’ll save a boatload of money. Mine had to be replaced do to it getting soaked with engine coolant I was charged 209.00 for the belt alone. I think the dealer said they had to order a special tool to hold the engine in a tilted position so belt could be changed or was that for the engine heater or water pump? Can’t remember it all happed so fast, simultaneously, and at only 46,500 miles. Also at nearly 48k my engine light has come on. I Just paid 300+$ for a mass airflow sensor that was replaced apparently for no reason as after a few miles, while exiting highway off ramp light came back on. Still I like the diesel not because it’s a Jeep but because it’s a diesel. Cheers!
  • unclebob9unclebob9 Posts: 103
    You need to visit the lostjeeps forum and read about the simple maintenance that is overlooked and necessary to prolong your engines life.
    There are few decent mechanics for these diesels in the USA. So if you want to own the CRD you need to be up on what it needs or the mechanics will really take you for a ride and may do more harm than good!
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    This past Saturday I stopped at the dealer in Melbourne, Florida and got to see the engine. In one word, "UGLY". Let me describe what I saw in outline form.

    1. The front quarter of the lower block was blown away. The front of the block was intact but the lower one-quarter on both sides was gone as was the the first four inches of the bottom of the oil pan. The holes in the block were at least six inches in size.
    2. Number one connecting rod is gone. The part that goes around the crankshaft journal is present. The upper part of the connecting rod where the wrist pin goes through is also there plus one inch. Everything in between is gone save for a few shards of metal. The bearing surface of the wrist pin part is clean and shows no evidence of oil deprivation or discoloration. I was able to rotate the crankshaft by turning the flywheel. I was able to grasp the remainder of the connecting rod on the crankshaft journal but was unable to move it very much. I was told that the amount of free play between the connecting rod and crankshaft journal is quite limited.
    3. The inside of the oil pan was clean save for a thin layer of oil that has dried onto the surface. I reached up into the block through the larger hole and found no sludge of any kind.
    4. Every accessory mounting bracket was broken or gone. Even the mounting bracket for the CP3 pump was fractured at it's mounting points.
    5. Number one glow plug had two inches of the tip sheared off, the other three were fine.
    6. Number one injector: the tip was flattened a little bit. The other three looked fine.
    7. Turbocharger: looked okay. I could not see any metal fragments in the oil line as I had been told was the case. However, there was some free play (wiggle) in the shaft that supports the two fans. I was told that this was not suppose to be the case.
    8. I obtained the oil filter and a goodly amount of oil. I also took the fuel filter and that was full of diesel. I am going to have both analyzed, the oil for fuel contamination and breakdown and the fuel for any gasoline contamination. I also took the K&N air filter. It was in good order and not over oiled.
    9. The fragments of the block I saw were surprisingly thin, about one-half inch thick only. I expected thicker. What I could see of the crankshaft was in good order and clean.
    10. The head and valve cover had not been removed so I was unable to inspect the state of the combustion chambers or the inside of the head.
    11. The block was clean other wise with no evidence of oil leakage. The rear main seal was in good shape. The intake was clean save for a thin coating of oil/soot and the inside of the intercooler was likewise. The cold side of the turbo was clean as was the hot side. All of the blades I could see showed no sign of foreign body ingestion.
  • unclebob9unclebob9 Posts: 103
    sounds like you snapped the rod, once free from the piston it beat the hell out of everything it could reach. This hsppened in my old 66 GTO (many moons ago), went right through the block.
    I think you are wist to have the oil and fuel filter tested. Document everything with times and dates, just in case you find a responsibe cause.
    Gas in the diesel fuel could do it, and a defective or callapsed oil filter might also, but in this case the rods would most likely be frozen and the engine would not turn or turn with difficulty.
    Will be interesting to see what you discover.
  • Ok, engine light issue seems to have been repaired. The air intake from air cleaner to turbo was broken. Part was 55.00 and about the same for labor. Made several trips so if still defective should have come back on by now. :shades:
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    The oil filter which I now have is not collapsed or soft so that issue can be ruled out.

    As I said in my post the remaining part of the connecting rod that was on the crankshaft journal did move a little but with difficulty and I was told that the clearances are pretty tight.

    If the oil is responsible then LubroMoly will pay.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Took the parts I had retrieved in Florida to my local dealer to have them evaluated. Turns out that the K&N air filter was not the culprit, but again the tech told me that Chrysler will void the engine warranty if you use one or for that matter any air filter that provides freer air flow over stock. The tech evaluated the remainder of the connecting rod and feels that the way the small portion of the rod that remains was twisted and he thinks there was a hydro lock situation (bad injector?) that caused the failure.

    The service manager at my dealer feels that the Florida dealer, who still has my money, is obligated to go through with the repair. I am working on the letter to the CEO and that should go out this week. I am also going to file a complaint with the Florida State Government Consumer Affairs to see what they can do/suggest.
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