Ford Freestar/Mercury Monterey
Am I the first one to open this discussion?...
So what do you say? Will the new Freestar be competitive or not? With no AWD offered, and just a 200 hp engine (or 201 upgraded) and 4-speed tranny, will it be a winner? Please post your opinion.
So what do you say? Will the new Freestar be competitive or not? With no AWD offered, and just a 200 hp engine (or 201 upgraded) and 4-speed tranny, will it be a winner? Please post your opinion.
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Comments
We will wait for the Freestar. We want the side curtain airbag and folding 3 row seat. The current 3.8/200hp is adequate for California freeways. The rest is old hat, but we know what to expect. I have had an '00, '02 and '03 Windstar as a company van and they are fine for our use.
Look for an increased version of the current 3.8L, which will be the 3.9L V6 making 200HP and probably around 240-245TQ. There WILL be an optional 4.2L (a bored out version of the 3.9L) making 201HP and 265TQ, most torque in it's class. This latter engine will be the sole standard engine for the Mercury twin, the Monterrey.
So far, Ford has stated it has concentrated on NVH and interior materials, so look for a very classy interior. Same designer J.Mays, is credited for the interior quality and design, which he was responsible for VW's interiors, which are deemed one of the finest in the industry.
Also, power liftgate, tumble and dissapear 3rd row seating, safety airbag canopy system protecting the sides in events of a rollover, will debut. Talk about safety overkill !!
So far from the pics Ford have shown, the interior is quite elegant, while the exterior seems a bit more refined and elegant overall. If you want to avoid the Freestar version, Mercury's clone will look equally elegant and most of the higher end options would be standard on the Mercury version.
Overall I do think it'll do well, even though there's increased competition from the new Sienna and Quest.
And just a 4-speed tranny while others have 5-speed?
And others have more room, too. Some, (Odyssey & Quest) offers independent suspension.
So we got to wait and see.
Surely, the engine upgrades give it a bit more power. But the vehicle WILL gain a bit of weight from the added improvements. So performance wise it'll be the same.
But this isn't a segment that most buyers will worry about performance. Most drivers will only notice the power, while passing a vehicle at most. So torque would be a priority, over HP. I agree power is important in any vehicle.
Most of consumers that will purchase this vehicle, have 2 brats strapped to the back seat, toys are flying everywhere, they are probably on a cell phone while driving... Do we REALLY want them to have that much power??
Ironically from the survey conducted "Customer clinics", performance was not on the top of the list that minivan owners described/asked for. It was comfort, 2nd place was "toys".
Sidenote: Fuel efficiency speaking. Some of those other engines you mentioned, require Preimium or Midgrade fuel, while the Freestar requires regular. So the EPA numbers might be 1 or 2 off here and there, it'll pretty much equal the same gas bill at the end of the year.
I dont believe EPA numbers much. From my experiences, I've been able to make a Civic drink 18MPG, while making a Mark8 drink 25MPG-28MPG Highway. Now with my LS, I should be lucky even hitting 12MPG CTY, 18MPG HWY. My bestfriend has an Oddysey, and she drives very much like I do. And when she's frustrated, she's been able to get 10-11MPG. So just depends on the persons foot. EPA numbers should be used as an example to compare, but not an exact science.
The reason Ford had to continue with this engine for the Freestar/Monterey, is mainly because the quantity and output needed, is readily available at the EEP-Essex Engine Plant. All other engine plants that produce the modular engines, are busy enough as it is, than to have Ford ask them to output 300,000 more engine units. So at this time, the proper plants are being upgraded to allow for great engine outputs. A slow phase-in, from one engine to another is what works best, with a graduate re-tool of the factor.
Example: Ford-"Hmm the new 2004 F-150 is too porky to continue using the 4.2L OHV V-6, what are we to do being there's 60,000 units of those engines being made"...."Hey!! lets make it an optional engine on the Freestar, standard on Monterey, and that way we can get rid of those units!!" That was the thinking.
And re-tooling a factory from one engine to another (at least in that engine) takes quite a bit of money. With the other engine families, such as the Duratec's and Modular V8's, their factories respectivly are able to switch from one displacement easily. So if they needed more output of the 5.4L, over the 4.6L, then it's easily done.
Personally (just my thinking here), I WOULD have preffered to see the 4.0L SOHC V-6 from the Explorer have been used. 210HP and 240TQ. is the closest power match available. But it's costlier to produce, and the retro-fit of that unit into a FWD transaxle would have cost more development money.
The 3.0L DOHC Duratec V6 wouldn't be sufficient for the load and weight of this vehicle, which is why the Mazda MPV does better with it.
So till the 3.5L Cyclone V-6 doesnt debut, (still a year and some away), the current Essex engines will continue to be used. But their time is coming up soon....
I personally would prefer the way Toyota & Honda are doing, which is a slanted dash (am I saying it right? English is my second language...) Just look in any of Toyota/Lexus - Honda/Acura model and you will understand. It makes everything much more reachable and gives you easier access to most controls. Neither of the Domestic companies make it this way.
I prefer driver oriented center consoles. I'm the driver, I'm in command. Front passengers play with anything on the dhasboard, I whack them. The information is for ME, not them. Back in the 90's, this was common in many vehicles for that same reason.... The driver is in control. One that I enjoyed the most was from a 98 Mark8 I had. It was one of the most driver canted center consoles I've seen. Probe was up there as well as the Aurora.
In comes late 90's, 2000. Navigation system are becoming more common. Some drivers prefer the passenger to enter all the information, and play with the Navi system, as they driver. Giving them a break. If a driver canted center console were implemented, it would be a bit harder for that passenger to utilize it comfortably.
Hence, you will be seeing many of those center canted type of consoles. Makes it much easier for either front seat occupant to deal with the controls. Now pertaining to the Oddysey and new Sienna consoles, I believe they are slanted a bit TOO upwards. I've already had a chance to play with both of their layout, and found it very uncomfortable. I'm one that rest my fingers at the bottom of the radio, while one finger goes thru all the stations. And having my arm held up there while searching thru all stations, is quite annoying as well as tiring.
J.Mays (former designer for VW/Audi) is designing many of the upcoming Ford interiors in that same way. It's very eelegantly neutral, fine touches thru-out, as well as a very symetrical type of button layout. Much more ergonomically correct. And the actions, and touch of the buttons will be a atep up from what we are currently used to with current Fords.
I read about Myers moving to Ford. It can only mean good things to the interiors for ford. They are not all that bad now. Lord knows they are way ahead of GM. The new F-150 has a really nice interior to it. But anyway, looking forward to seeing the Freestar.
Pretty soon we'll see even better interiors coming from Ford. A concentration of better materials, and more details will be implemented brandwise. Even I'm kinda shocked at the level of sophistication that will be implmented. This helps produce "perceived quality" which is helpful to any brand.
This NAV interior is awesome. Clients who ride with me are very impressed with it. It's like nothing else out there and is a huge improvement over the F-150 derived interior my last NAV had, and I think, a huge improvement over the Chevy truck interior in the Escalade. Not that the Escalade isn't nice, it is nice, but doesn't take your breath away like the inside of the NAV does. I do wish they would diversify the color choices just a little. The tan is a little too light, the gray is a little too black.....for my taste anyway. Something in the middle would be nice.
If Ford Interiors continue in that manner, and don't fall prey to the accounting dept., things should go well for them....
This NAV interior is awesome. Clients who ride with me are very impressed with it. It's like nothing else out there and is a huge improvement over the F-150 derived interior my last NAV had, and I think, a huge improvement over the Chevy truck interior in the Escalade. Not that the Escalade isn't nice, it is nice, but doesn't take your breath away like the inside of the NAV does. I do wish they would diversify the color choices just a little. The tan is a little too light, the gray is a little too black.....for my taste anyway. Something in the middle would be nice.
If Ford Interiors continue in that manner, and don't fall prey to the accounting dept., things should go well for them....
Ironically, it doesn't take much investment to improve the quality of interior materials. From survey's taken, the majority of those polled stated they would rather PAY more, for a better interior. A hundred dollars here and there, sure go a long way on a new interior.
Ford has admitted that their current Expy/Navi, and future F-150 will NOT much THAT much of a profit as they originally did, because there's more investment paid to interiors, and other engineering factors.
Ford, Toyota, DC, Nissan, Honda, GM. I have doubt anyone agrees with this. I hope the Freestar has more wood trim and nicer leather than the Windstar and has vinyl instead of cloth standard. I also hope it has all of the following:
fold-flat split 3rd row
power liftgate and doors
double sunshade
sideways moving second row
front and back moving second row
side power windows in second row
Yes.
No.
Not really.
Sort of.
No, MPV/Sienna only have that feature.
Cloth is standard, vinyl would be deemed inappropiate.
Vinyl is not favored because of it's ability to crack, unable to breathe like leather, and prone to ripping easily. Cloth is much easier to combat all these, as well as not burning your butt.
The Freestar will not have AWD, it's platform is not engineered for that. Next generation of Ford minivans, will have that. Try the Sienna, it has that and all the above.
What Fords have you been sitting in? I looked at a 2003 Windstar LX recently, and the interior quality was AWFUL. It was noticeably worse than that of our 1995 Windstar GL. The seat fabric was thin and poorly stitched, the carpet was a joke, and the plastics were cheap and badly assembled. The only part I liked was the steering wheel. I can't believe how much cost cutting they have done since 1995 -- our interior looks much better and has held up very well.
-Andrew L
That was quite slick there (reverting to a question you previously asked, thinking I would reveal details). (psych minor here) :-)
I'm not going to lie, or mislead someone to manipulate their deicision. I present the facts/news, and let the people make up their own mind. Or offer a different view (even though I might agree with theirs) but to make the person think on a broader spectrum.
You give me a list of needs (as you mentioned), I'll direct you to the item that fits it best, I'm just realistic about that, even if it pertains to other manufacturer's. I will give credit, where credit is due when it deals with vehicles outside Ford, just like I'll admit Ford's past errors, current errors, and future errors, make no mistake about it.
The thing with cloth these days is that so many manufacturers have switched to cheap, thin, vomit-colored beige stuff. I tested a bunch of new minivans recently when my parents were thinking about replacing our Windstar (they decided against it) and I'd say that my 1986 Pontiac has better cloth than all of them!
-Andrew L
I wish in my vehicle leather wouldn't have been standard. in Fl weather, aside from sticking to it, don't dare sit on it with shorts on. Hence, I bought car seat covers to avoid this issue.
Yeah recenly even hard plastic on some cars really look like leather untill you touch it. I agree modern cloth sucks.
We will be ordering a new Freestar or Monterey as soon as they will take our money and since our kids are still young (7, 7 & 3) cloth seats will be on the order.
Ford has some info for the Freestar and Monterey on their fleet site, www.fleet.ford.com. They are more forthcoming with info on the Monterey, you can even download a brochure.
I prefer cloth seats because they are much easier to clean up, you can even steam them if need be to get the grim and dirt out of it. And if crayons melt on it (as some parents use their vehicles as a traveling playpen) it's much easier to get off cloth over leather. And depending on the pattern of the cloth, it can hide any imperfections as well.
Now you want to talk about "Shoulds", well, in the family vans I would like to see a double radio tuner. All speakers on one tuner or turn on the second tuner and it goes just to the back where the convenient headphone jacks and controls "Should" be located for the kids, with Mom and Dad listening to the front speakers. We are not big fans of the car video systems; kids watch enough TV at home and we want ours to look out the window, which is a little better for their stomachs.
The other "should" that I would like to see is the return of the "self-leveling" air suspension that was an option on my '96 Windstar with the trailer package. No matter how much I piled into that box, it always righted itself to level. My '02 company Windstar has commercial springs installed and it rides too high when it is empty and occasionally gets blown around on the road.
My current job has me in and out of a Windstar about 3 days a week covering 800-1000 miles in that interval covering central Calif. Vinyl just heats up too much in our area. I would like to have a car with leather seats like my old '60 Lincoln Mk V, but it is not practical with kids. I once drove a Crown Bus with a perforated leather seat and it made you sweat as well. As far as you request for choices, I probably would go with leather first, cloth second and vinyl last. If I add kids to the equation, then the leather moves to the end of the line. Once my kids get past about 10, then I might reconsider leather. Right now, cloth is the overall choice at our house. I would have a real problem with leather seats if the kid's carseat wore a hole through the hide. Maybe in a few years......
http://media.ford.com/products/model.cfm?vehicle_id=939
For Monterey:
http://media.ford.com/products/model.cfm?vehicle_id=940
I see that the new 4.2L engine will have 202 hp (one more than estimated) and 265 lb-ft of torque (5 more than estimated).
The new engines will also be much quieter. Do you think Ford can match a Honda or Toyota engine in terms of quietness?