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Cadillac DTS



  • My EXPERIENCE with DTS versus T.C. is that my Town Car is a far more reliable vehicle than my DTS. If you read owners forums you will find that any brand of car can have vibration problems!!! The problem with Cadillac is that they don't get problems resolved as quickly or efficiently as they should, and that again from A DTS OWNER and not a lurking bystander. Cadillac has produced a more high tech car and sacrificed reliability in the process.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    In J. D. Powers most recent dependability survey, Lincoln did a bit better than Cadillac:

    However, the difference is not great compared to how well both are compared to the industry average. The Town Car was rated top for mid level luxury, while the Cadillac Eldorado was rated high in the premium luxury car segment.

    Bremertong's experience with one vehicle is all well and good, but a sample of one is not meaningful. Most of you with DTSs have not had a problem with vibrations, only robw64 is having this problem. Bremertong has had some problem with his electrical system, which he has had problems explaining in simple terms, I still don't know if the problem is the engine stalling or if the battery is weak :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    It is not Cadillac who fixes your problems, but your dealer's service department who is not working for Cadillac. Resolving problems that are intermittent, like your cruise control problem, can't be done easily, particularly if the dealer is never able to reproduce the problem. I have found my Cadillac dealer's service department to be good. This does not mean that other dealers have good service departments, and one should consider the service departments reputation before buying anything from a dealer.

    I did own a Cadillac Seville, which was for all practical purposes the same thing as the DTS - the same basic platform, which is the G-body, and my Seville was the third G-body I owned, so I do have some experience with G-bodies. I now own a Cadillac SRX, which is a different platform, but has been very reliable. I did have a dead battery one morning, but that has not repeated itself, and I think I ran the battery down playing with the power third row seat.
  • I have known many people who own Devilles who would not have a Seville and vice versa. The cars may be similar but THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!! Why anyone who AT ONE TIME OWNED A SIMILAR BUT NOT THE SAME MODEL of car would set them self up as an expert and have all the answers on a DTS is baffling if not amusing to me.
    If I should trade or sell my DTS in the future I will join the owners forum of the new vehicle, and not act as if to be an expert on a car that I no longer own unless I am bored and have nothing better to do with my time.
    To be fair I have found some of the information posted by the very few posters that this applies to a little helpful but a substantial amount of it
    is at the very least not helpful to me at all and in fact confuses issues and resolutions.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The basic facts of life are that the FWD Seville and DeVille have the same engine and transmission. Most of the features are the same for both cars. The biggest difference in the two cars is the size. The Seville is a somewhat smaller car, but since the 1992 model year is not much smaller that the Deville. I have not claimed to be the all knowing expert that you seem to think that you are.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    for your information, assuming that like bremertong you don't read anything else here, there is an entire forum devoted to vibrations in the Buick Lucerne forums. The Lucerne is the same basic car as the DTS. To summarize, there is some thought that Michelin tires help minimize tire vibrations, but this has not solved everyones problems either. On the other hand, my Seville had Michelin tires and they did not cause me any balance problems.

    If you like the Lincoln MKX, it is somewhat cheaper than the DTS new, so the difference to trade may not be that bad.
  • vic10vic10 Posts: 188
    Forgive me but I love whitewalls and to me a Caddy isn't a Caddy without them (the exception being the CTS). As I approach the purchase of my first one: Any experience with Vogue tires? Any other whitewall options out there?
  • I took the advice of a forum member and actually drove the two vehicles -one right after the other on the same route. I thought that the Performance would have a stiff ride like a Mercedes. It was great. It was very steady and felt similar to my old 2002 LeSabre Ltd. with the performance suspension. The Luxury II rode exactly like my 2003 base model DeVille. Blindfolded I wouldn't be able to tell any difference at all. If I was going to buy a non-Performance DTS I would simply not bother and keep my old one until a major body change. I noted that the dash is cluttered and the cockpit area feels more open in my 2003. The bottom line is that despite the hype over the "new" 2006 the cars ride and drive about the same as the 2000-2005's. No big deal. I will look for a Performance though in the spring -and will get a certified 2006 or 7.
  • I have never claimed to be an expert on anything much less cars. I always say the more you think you know the less you probably do. What I find interesting about your comments are that you are always ready to contradict what a person decides to do when in FACT YOU Don't OWN A DTS! You have the appearance of a shill for Cadillac in that most times when a person has problems with Cadillac or its' service you seem to take the part of Cadillac and blame the owner. And finally I want to thank you for all your advice in that when I have done THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU SO READILY ADVISE I HAVE COME OUT RIGHT A GREAT MAJORITY OF THE TIME. WHEN I HAVE GONE WITH YOUR ADVISE I HAVE COME OUT ON THE WRONG END A MAJORITY OF THE TIME. SIMPLY STATED YOU GIVE KNOW IT ALL ADVICE AND I DO THE OPPOSITE AND MOVE TOWARDS RESOLUTION. None the less I really could do with out your comments and would ask politely and publicly that you not respond to any of my posts in the future.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My, my, my :P
    The point I have been trying to get across is that your Cadillac dealer is working for themselves, not "Cadillac", and if their service department is not doing a good job, that is your dealer not "Cadillac". However, a dealer whose service department is deficient should lose their franchise.

    I did make a couple of suggestions with your old deVille's cruise control problems, one was replacing the steering wheel buttons, which did not change anything. In fact your dealer replaced the entire cruise control system so whatever the problem was, it was not the cruise control, but something else.

    The problems that you have had with your new DTS have been puzzling to me based on the description you gave for the problem. My suggestion is that when you have a problem that you describe it to your service department in simple language, and not try to seem more knowledgeable than you really are.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I have looked through some of the other forums and Buick owners have some problems with vibrations that were related to the tires and wheels. CTS owners are having problems too. I have not had a problems with this, so I am somewhat puzzled by this. I am quite sure that most do not have a problem, so this seems to be something that is related to something not quite right with either the tires or wheels. I kind of wonder if the wheels are mounted slightly off center - that the bolts holding them on are slightly off center? If the wheels were the problem, the tech doing the spin balance should notice, but who knows?
  • robw64robw64 Posts: 76
    Our experience with the DTS has come to an end. The latest problems to surface really put us over the edge....we just couldn't spend any more time going back and forth to fix the vehicle.

    One of the problems: The On Star connectivity started going out. The car could no longer communicate with remote vehicle diagnostics.

    The other problem: The remote door locks started locking & unlocking all by themselves. We could be driving or even sitting in the car waiting to pick someone up and the locks would activate.

    We traded the vehicle for an MKX last night. The best trade in value we could get was $25.2k, which is slightly above a 50% loss in value from it's $49.9k MSRP when new in July, 2006. Car Max would only offer $23.5k (they stated that 2006 DTS' are known to be troublesome), and another Lincoln dealer would only offer $23.7k.

    I thank you all for your insight, support, and assistance while we had the DTS......your feedback helped me get through the headache of owning a vehicle with problems.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I hope that the MKX proves to be less troublesome. Chances are good that it will, but...

    I would think that in July of 2006 you would not have paid list price for the DTS. When I bought my Seville I got it for about $10,000 below list, but then I did not want to buy it, and they wanted to sell...

    Looking at trade in values, $25000 is about right, depending on options, and, considering that your car has problems that seem to be unfixable, getting more than $20,000 is probably good. Of course the Lincoln dealer may think that they can fix it :P
  • Sorry to learn that you had to give up on your DTS but understand your decision completely. Welcome to the family of Lincoln owners! So far I have been very satisfied with my Town Car. If I continue to have problems with my DTS I may buy a second Ford product or a Japanese car, don't know which brand or model. Hope you will post about your MKZ in the forum for owners there. Best wishes and if you have comparisons of your experience with DTS and MKZ hope you will come back and share with us at this forum.
  • I'd really like to hear your impressions. These cars appear to be pretty different -the MKX is midsize and the DTS is lots bigger. Is there a difference in ride, handling, etc?
  • robw64robw64 Posts: 76
    Just to clarify: we did not buy the MKZ mid-size sedan, we purchased the MKX mid-size CUV (crossover utility vehicle).

    The MKX has less engine power (V6 versus V8), but I notice it gets to highway cruising speed very quickly and easily. Exterior sound volumes penetrating the cabin are comparable to the Cadillac.

    The volume of interior seating space seems to be quite similar, with the exception of rear seat toe room (the MKX wins on this one) and the rear seat recline feature in the MKX. It's also nice to have the sunroof, which was unavailable to me in the DTS due to lack of headroom. The driver seating position is different than in the only took a few days to get used to the elevated driving position and more reclined seat backs (the headrests are positioned in such a way that a very upright seat back would cause it to bump into the back of your head).

    The THX-certified sound system is excellent, definitely comparable to the Bose premium sound we had in the Cadillac. The in-dash navigation is very simple to operate, and can be updated by loading a new CD.

    Every auto maker has it's own "look & feel", and the Lincoln is significantly different than a Cadillac, but not in a bad way. The fit & finish is comparable, and I've only found one slightly misaligned trim piece on the steering wheel (our Cadillac had an errant strip of flashing in the chromed shifter bezel which always caught my eye).
  • I understand that a new DTS is planned in 2010 or 11. They might combine the STS and DTS. I hope that Cadillac won't reduce the size of the DTS. If I'm going to end up with a mid-size DTS when the model change happens then I'll go with an Avalon or Lexus for sure. There are a lot of mid-sized models to choose from but there are presently very few full size cars -essentially the DTS and the Town Car. The DTS is a big seller for Cadillac and if they lose their DTS buyer base by downsizing this car it will be a big mistake. Some people including most of us on this forum enjoy a big car that one can drive all day without back strain and one that holds 4 or 5 people comfortably and all their baggage..
  • I have a performance dts order , looking at the tires that coming on the car get such a bade write up on Tire Rack and another tire site , the bridgestone rated poor , i am thinking of putting on yokohama s 4 , but dealer says that change the tires could effect it so much as far as vibration and ride , s 4 have much better write up I am just looking for input if you changed especially to yokohama
  • I very much agree with you and in fact have put my ideas in to my car ownership with both a Town Car and DTS. The Lincoln has been my first and the DTS my third Deville. While STS is a nice car I have never been all that excited about it . There is no question that the DTS has more cutting edge technology than Town Car but they are both very nice with the Town Car the more attractive (in my opinion) of the two. The interesting thing about my Town Car is that while it is 400 pounds heavier than DTS but is about 15 % more fuel efficient than DTS. I would also be inclined to try a Toyota or other Japanese car should Cadillac do the merging of DTS & STS with the mid size result.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    What I have read here and there (various car magazines) is that the Deville(DTS) will be a RWD car. The RWD platform will probably be new, and the Lucerne will also use this platform. The platform will be similar to the Pontiac G8, but the North American production version will probably have a range of sizes so that the DTS should be a large version. I am not sure what the STS will be, but could be a shorter version of the DTS.

    While the Deville has been a long time big seller for Cadillac, the CTS now sells about as well. The DTS sales seem to be decreasing, while the new CTS is selling even better than the first generation model, which had a plasic interior. If you want really big vehicles the Buick Enclave is quite large. The Town Car will probably remain in production for a while too. Cadillac is said to be thinking about a true premium luxury model (something that might compare with the Mercedes S-class). I am not sure that Cadillac knows how to do premium luxury though, as the last true premium luxury Cadillac was the 90-series in the 1930's era. The Eldorado Brougham of the late 50's was not really a premium luxury model and failed in any case.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    I thought they tried to compete with MB when they came out with the Allante in the 1980s, which, if I recall, was priced over $50K and was an expensive boat anchor...

    Maybe I am the one snookered by advertising, but it just seems to me that Cadillac has tried for years to compete with the supposed quality and reputation of Mercedes, but has always fallen so far short that it is laughable...

    Maybe now, as manufacturing methods seem to be coming together, Caddy makes a better car and MB has had quality problems, possibly due to their (supposed) arrogance...

    But if/when MB gets its act together again, will Caddy even stand a chance, meaning can Caddy sell a $100K auto while S-Class autos now routinely surpass $100K sticker, and folks still buy it...

    Caddy may make a great car, but will never command the proces of MB, as most folks simply do not place them as real competitors...maybe CTS competes with C-Class, but does a DTS REALLY compare to an S-600???...I would doubt it...
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Cadillac shipped both the Allante and the Eldorado Brougham off to Italy to give them some sort of European flair to justify putting a very high price tag on what was otherwise basically a copy of a cheaper production model. The Eldorado Brougham was basically the Fleetwood Sixty body, while the Allante was the Eldorado with the rear seat removed with a shorter body. Both cars should have had bodies that were designed to be stronger than the lower end Cadillacs.

    However, beginning with the G-bodies (the 1995 Oldsmobile Aurora/Buick Riviera), GM has bodies that are comparable with the Mercedes E-class. The RWD sigma platform Cadillacs (CTS, STS and SRX) are probably even better than the FWD G-bodies. However, Mercedes has a long history of building high end vehicles, and Cadillac's history is one of building medium priced luxury cars, so Cadillac will not be able to demand the same price as a similar Mercedes.

    The DTS is as big as an S-class, but the S-class has an even stronger, stiffer, more vault like body than the E-class, while the DTS body is probably not quite an E-class for structure. The sigma bodies are probably closer to the E-class.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    You help make my point...why is it always that we can't make a chassis that is stronger and stiffer like the MB???

    While I am NOT a metallurgist, I simply will not believe that Caddy or any carmaker does not know that its chassis flexes too much or the suspension needs to be stiffened...

    Why can't every Chevy, Ford and caddy have the suspension of a BMW???...unless BMW makes it cars out of gold, their suspensions could be duplicated by GM for pennies...their shocks are no different, they either use control arms or struts, and we could reverse engineer anything BMW (or Honda or Toy) does, and make our cars much better on the road...

    Why don't we do it???...I am quite sure that BMW does not know any more about auto suspensions than we do, but they sure seem to implement it much better...we could do the same, and for less money, given our economies of scale...

  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    GM's G-body FWD cars were as good as BMW and Mercedes for chassis flex (or stiffness). Ride and handling are a combination of tire and suspension components. I think that Cadillac's sigma platform is as good as BMW or Mercedes. However, there are differences in tires as well as the suspensions. In the end, the customer has choices, and whether you like the Cadillac or the BMW better depends on personal choice. The sigma platform is expensive to build. I think the sigma suspension is a better design than BMW's. What Cadillac needs to do is not copy BMW, but design something better, which I think that they may have done. There is some question about whether the CTS should be compared to the 3-series, which is in the same price range; or is the CTS really a 5-series car since they are about the same size.

    The DTS owners in this forum like the big FWD G-body and seem unwilling to consider any RWD de Ville replacement that might be smaller or more like a sports sedan. They are probably not interested in paying something like $100,000 for a DTS that really compares with an S-class Mercedes much less a Maybach.
  • vic10vic10 Posts: 188
    "They are probably not interested in paying something like $100,000 for a DTS that really compares with an S-class Mercedes much less a Maybach. "

    Exactly--at least for me. Having become re-aquainted with RWD via my 300C, I wouldn't mind a RWD deVille as long as it's priced similar to today's DTS. But if it were to jump even to the XLR's price range I'd start looking at Buicks or another Chrysler.

    And I am totally in agreement with idea that Cadillac should chart its own course. Trying to create an American MB or BMW will not likely convince any current MB or BMW owners to switch. They're really not buying the mechanical or handling nature of their cars. They're buying the cache.
  • Just an FYI. There are numerous reports of vibration problems on 2000-2002 model years.
  • I agree completely, Dispenser. I own a 2006 Luxury ll DTS, and don't want Cadillac to downsize this to a mid size. I not only like the ride and room, but feel much safer in this full size sedan. I'm also hoping Cadillac will stick with the FWD DTS.
  • 04cad04cad Posts: 131
    Just got a 2007 DTS with 6,xxx miles. As nice as our 2005 Deville was, the 07 is that much better. Ride, power, handling, interior, fit and finish, etc., etc., etc! The price was right too.
  • What trim line did you get and what trim line was your 2005? I drove the '07 Lux II and it didn't drive a lot different than my 2003 base model. I was going to get a Performance when I look for one in March but am happier with the Lux II ride. It feels more familiar.
  • Good evening gentlemen. I have been following your discussion for a short period of time and can only add these few comments. If I get into an accident, I want metal ahead of me, not plastic, which the FWD offers considerably more of. I have test driven the CTS, SRX, ESCALADE, and all the rest and have found one thing true about the DeVille series. It provides the least road noise, windflow noises and eliminates the most exterior noises of any vehicle I have driven. I own a DTS and realize the only noise I can't eleminate is the 18 year old two or three cars behind me with their boom box blairing and vibrating every inch of the car including the windows.
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