Suzuki Verona

libertycat

Wow! I'm so happy Suzuki finally has a mid-size sedan. I hope it has lots of pretty wood trim inside and a great value.

a_l_hubcaps

I heard they started production already, but we probably won't actually see them on the lots until late August or early September. Hopefully they have made an effort to get the quality up to par rather than rushing the launch. While I don't think Daewoos are as poor as some people say, their quality is not exactly proven yet.

I'm also interested to see how the straight-six engine is received. Most (all?) other cars in that class have either I4s or V6s.

-Andrew L

alpha01

I dont think its the engine configuration that matters so much as the fact that its a 2.5L V6 that will probably not achieve the fuel economy ratings of Accord/Camry/Galant/6/Altima, while simulatneously offering less max hp and similar torque as those 4s. It will probably serve well, but offer no competitive advantages.

~alpha

libertycat

and low price and lots of features. I for one couldn't care less about horsepower. Gas mileage is important to me but just so it isn't outrageously low, I'm fine with it.

alpha01

as the Camry/Accord, certainly not better looking than the Altima/6, and just like the Aerio (and every other unexceptional Suzuki product) wont make a dent in this market.

Maybe over the road it will be different. On paper, it seems like a loser to me.

~alpha

libertycat

If you think that, why are you wasting your time on this board? I LOVE the styling; it's way better than Accord/Camry/Century/Malibu/Legacy and equal to Altima/6/Taurus/Grand Prix/Passat/Stratus. It has a luxurious interior with nice-looking wood trim and leather all over.

bluewinds

Suzuki Verona(aka Daewoo Manus L6 2.5)

For me, it is pretty nice looking car and it has Real Italian design and German Engineering.

The inlie 6 Engine is pretty quiet & smooth. However, it doesn't have impressive power like Altima 3.5 but just enough one.

alpha01

FYI: I did state "maybe over the road it will be different" BUT since these boards are here for people to discuss products and express opinions, I stated that, on paper, to me, the Suzuki Verona seems like a loser.

bluewinds- "The inlie 6 Engine is pretty quiet & smooth. However, it doesn't have impressive power like Altima 3.5 but just enough one."

you've driven the Verona?

~alpha

zilamania

The entry-level Verona S is $16,999. The mid-level LX is $18,299, and the top-of-the-line EX with power leather seat is $19,999. These prices include a $500 destination cost.
Representatives from Suzuki and GM Daewoo Auto & Technology (GMDAT) officially certify that the new 2004 Suzuki Verona midsize sedan has passed the fifth and final stage of its progressive quality assurance process, designed to ensure the new model meets the high quality standards established by Suzuki for the North American market.
    Following their successful completion of the quality assurance process at GMDAT headquarters in Incheon, Korea, the first new Verona vehicles began their shipment to the U.S. to arrive in Suzuki showrooms by late August 2004.
    "Our standards aim to place Suzuki vehicles among the top three Japanese manufacturers in vehicle quality," explained Rick Suzuki, president of American Suzuki Motor Corp. (ASMC) of Brea, Calif. "The Verona not only meets but exceeds these quality standards."
    The first product from Suzuki's investment in GMDAT and the largest car ever sold by Suzuki, the Verona combines Italian styling; a roomy interior; and a standard 2.5-liter, 24-valve DOHC in-line six-cylinder engine with such standard features as fully adaptive automatic transmission, speed-sensitive power steering, air conditioning, and four-wheel disc brakes.
    ASMC used the occasion of the Verona's first shipment to the U.S. to announce an MSRP starting at just $16,499 without the $500 destination charge-- giving the new car a distinct value advantage over the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.
    The 2004 Suzuki Verona is the first of nine new models to be launched by Suzuki as the cornerstone of its plan to triple 2002 U.S. auto sales by 2007.

    Editor Note: Photos of the Suzuki Verona quality audit are available at www.media.suzuki.com

alpha01

Well now, thats a different story. Well equipped a long warranty, allegedly smooth powerplant.

A prettier picture has been painted.
What about quality control?

~alpha

libertycat

http://media.suzuki.com/auto/ has great info about the Forenza. I saw this a few months ago and noticed there was no link to it here.

alpha01

There is a separate Forenza board. (sounds a lot like the Olds Firenza to me.)

~alpha

libertycat

I am VERY active in that board too. I meant Verona. I've never heard of the Firenza. When was that made and what was it?

a_l_hubcaps

Olds Firenza was a 1980s J-Car variant (like the Cavalier, Sunbird, etc). There might have been previous models by that name, but the J-Car is the only one I'm familiar with.

-Andrew L

libertycat

bluewinds

Yep, I have driven it in Korea.

mdaffron

How hard will it be to get parts for this car? Will Daewoo be as slow to provide parts to Suzuki dealers as it has been to Daewoo dealers since the bankruptcy?

Meade

a_l_hubcaps

mdaffron-

As I understand it, the bottleneck in Daewoo parts distribution is Daewoo Motor America, not the factories in Korea. Since Suzuki will presumably be distributing the parts in North America, that should take care of that problem.

-Andrew L

jchan2

$19,999 for a car with an I6 and leather isn't bad. An Accord 4 cylinder starts at $20,000. (Just One dollar more!) Quality should be fine. It's got that killer warranty, remember?

jkobty

ITS HERE!!!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030802/168/4v9- gd.html

jchan2

Finally.

jkobty

I am not sure if you are all aware of this guys, but this car was really a 2000 model year Magnus sedan(Leganza successor) in Korea. It took so long to come here because of the Daewoo financial situation. 4 years later and this woo still looks better than any recent Japanese car I have ever seen. Just like its ancestor, my 99 Leganza CDX still looks better than any 2004 Japanese or American car, and has had zero problems to date.

arg11

Bluewinds, I'll bet you know the answer to there questions!

Does the V6 Magnus have a manual transmission option in Korea? Might be able to extract a bit more power from the engine. I'll also bet there are tuners in the home market with stiffer suspension kits, maybe even a supercharger. Bluewinds, got any info on that?

And, thanks. . .

iluvmysephia1

look better than anything coming from Japan(DUH-because IT'S KOREAN-BUILT-THAT'S WHY-RIGHT GUYS?) of late. My love is for Kia/Hyundai's but I'll be watching these GMDaewoo A&T cars sold here as Suzuki's pretty closely for reliability and performance issues with new American buyers. Remember, Chevy sells a GMDA&T car, too, the Aveo. Oh, what fun it is to watch, huh?

jchan2

looks like it'll give Mr. Hyundai Sonata and Mrs. Kia Optima a run for their bank account!

rcf8000

I love the Verona's styling. And it has a lot of features for the money. But the omission of side air bags is a big minus. The gas mileage won't help it sell, either.

corsicachevy

I like the Verona's styling as well - with two exceptions - the steering wheel and the giant Superman "S" on the grill.

What is the reason for putting a transverse inline 6 in this car? I love the smooth nature and mellow sound of an inline 6, but it seems that a 60 degree V6 may have been a better choice.

jchan2

to be unique. The Daewoo Leganza wasn't unique enough in the fact that it had a 2.2 4 cylinder when Accord had that 2.3. Now, they can brag and stress over that 2.5 Inline 6 advantage.

according2me

a rwd car, with a 5spd naturally.

jchan2

It would not make good sense to make a RWD car with a 5-Speed from scratch since Daewoo/GM won't dump any money to improve the car from its current standing. They just hope that price will bring buyers. that'll help, but it won't create lines to buy Veronas. Also, the majority of the people buy CamCords, equipped with 4-cylinder engines and automatics. Suzuki/Daewoo went the extra mile by giving away the inline 6 cylinder, which will bring in some buyers and scare away some who are more concerned with fuel economy than beating the CamCord in the next lane or being different than everyone else, so the 6 cylinder is standard idea may or may not work.

dkuhajda

The I6 was designed like a Mercedes design and specifically designed to be an extremely well balanced and quiet powerplant. More specifically they designed it to be similar in smooth easy power as the older I6 Mercedes engine.

After driving one (today)I can say it hit the mark on that one design goal. The engine is so quiet on start up it was hard to even tell it was running without the window down. The power delivery was very smooth throughout the power range. It never gave the impression of straining, but it also did not give neck wrenching acceleration. I could not even tell when the transmission shifted it was just that smooth.

The whole car was then designed to be as quiet and smooth as possible without much sacrifice in handling. It gives and almost old time Buick like feel with the ability to handle almost, if not quite, like a modern sporty sedan. I think the closest large production vehicle that handles close is the Mercury Sable, but the Verona is seems much quieter in the cabin.

jchan2

like a Mercury Sable?! You mean that it handles even worse than a Camry????!!!!

dkuhajda

You cannot have an ultra smooth ride and sports car handling in a mid-low priced sedan. You can have handling that leans towards one or the other, but not both.

Back to what the experts say about the Sable,Edmunds; "The Sable is a respectable performer when it comes to ride, handling... The suspension is compliant, making for a comfortable ride and easy long-distance drives."

One thing I can tell you for sure, I would rather be in a car designed to be a road cruiser on long trips rather than a Camry any day. There is such a thing as the comfort factor.

jchan2

I haven't driven a Sable lately. I've riden in the Taurus, and the ride was pretty smooth. The Camry, I've been in and it drives somewhere between Sport and Comfort, where I don't want it. I want something either more towards Sport (Accord, Passat) or something more towards Comfort. (Sonata, Optima, Verona, Sable).

chevymalibu19

Hey, guys, i seen one of these cars today, and i was truly impressed. I'm interested in getting one, I currently drive a 98 Malibu, but I'm interested in this car.

 The only 04 car that I've been able to compare the Verona with in comparison to price were Corollas, Civics, and Centres by Nissen. This Car is obviously the better buy. I went and looked at a Camry, and a Hyndai Sonata. It kinda seems like a no brainer when comparing them. The verona offers so much more, and a price in a completely different category. Anyway, the car is awesome, and if they can advertise it right, it will be a true knock-out.

jchan2

rebadged Gen 2 Daewoo Leganza. The old one wasn't great in crash testing; we'll see what happens to this one with the IIHS.

wonderwall

I saw some at the Suzuki dealer not far from where i live yesterday. I tend not to pay much attention to Suzuki, so I had no idea... It's a nice looking car, but I don't like the giant "S" in the middle of the grille. So let me get this straight; this is a Daewoo, built in South Korea and rebadged as a Suzuki? Does this car have the Australian made Holden/GM engine in it like the Leganza?

jchan2

yes, it is a rebadged gen 2 Leganza, now called the Daewoo Magnus. I don't know about the engine.

jchan2

at the 2002 North American International Auto Show in Detroit. They had a Rezzo too. All ready to launch until bam! two months later they're out of business. Also, daewoo was also going to bring the Korando mini-ute' for 2001. Never made it here either. Daewoo had three cars ready to save it self and then GM buys it and shuts it down. Right when we were getting to the Rezzo, ready for a July launch. (The Rezzo was a compact 5-seat hatch not unlike the upcoming Mazda 3)

jchan2

was a pretty nice car. Small crowd around it when I got to the Daewoo display too.

terryg4

The I6 has a 77mm bore and a 95mm stroke (from memory, but close). This means that compared to say a Honda big bore/short stroke engine, Suzuki can crowd 6 cylinders in very little more space than a 4. Also, these dimensions will give a much flatter torque curve adding to smoothness.

The real uniqueness about this engine is that it appears to be taking from its motorcycle technology by using oil as a significant part of engine cooling. The engine holds 7.5 quarts of oil and the cooling system is 8.5 quarts. I would bet that the horsepower numbers for this engine will increase >20% over the next few years.

ricsch

I was surprised to see only a rating of 155 hp in the Verona 6 whereas the competion's 4 cyl. engines have that or more! I can only imagine in a year or so they will boost the hp.

Has anyone purchased a Verona or did some dealing to see what kind of discounting is being done on these cars, as from what I've seen they'll only take off $500 from list price?

Will be interesting to see how these cars are received here in the states.

jchan2

looks very elegant with the darker colors- Garnet Red, Dark Blue, and Black. the Silver looks nice too. The Autumn Bronze looks pretty ugly. But still- for $19,999 you get a power sunroof, Automatic Climate Control, leather. A similar Accord EX-L 4Cylinder costs $2500 more!

corvette

Looks like the reviewer compared the rear legroom measurements of the Accord Coupe instead of the Accord Sedan.

ricsch

Is the in-line 6 made by Suzuki? My father, who is interested in the Verona said the salesman told him it was made by another auto manufacturer for them. Any info??

jchan2

Daewoo. But they never offered an inline 6 in the Leganza, it was a 2.2 4 cylinder in the Leganza. So, who knows? GM doesn't make an inline 6 that is 2.5 liters, so ask a Suzuki representative.

aveman

The first drive review of the Verona at edmunds seems very good.The only slight disappointment was comment about lack of midrange passing power.This makes another car with ties to GM, the other being the Malibu that has small engines mated 4 speed auto transmissions that get questiionable reviews. It is more understandable that the Verona doesn't offer a manual trans since it is imported and many dealers will not order cars with a manual transmission. But if they want to play no choice and deny a manual trans, they can at least use an engine and transmission package that doesn't come with exceptions to good performance. Some how I don't think the european market would be denied a flexable or manual transmission. I am sure the car drives alright but why create a hole in the performance that your competition could drive thru.

jchan2

I don't care much. As long as I can get to the office on time and save my wallet, I'm fine.

a_l_hubcaps

I have been a bit of a cheerleader for Daewoo during their troubled last few years, and even I was surprised by how positive that Edmunds review is. They can be a little flaky sometimes, so I'll wait for some more sources, but that sure seems very promising for the car.

-Andrew L

jchan2

Seems like it'll be a good CamCord alternative.

aveman

tThe review at autoweek was positive as well.I expect that the Verona may do well for suzuki. I just feel teased that the new cars arriving on the midsize scene,seem so well built and would be great drives if a manual trans were availible.Especiallly, since Hundai/Kia offer a manual transmission in their midsize Sonata/Optima.If the cars didn't seem so nice,I would not care so much that a manual shift is not available.I guess as is the case with the new Malibu, having folks drive around shifting gears would too much fun ta allow in this size car for the money.You have to go down in size and sophistication, or up in price.I just figured it out,it's me not them. I forgot ths is the age of the cell phone. Who has time to be shifting gears when you can be talking your mouth off.