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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+



  • rambo5rambo5 Posts: 37
    Does the sedan have a split rear seat or a pass through? Comes in handy for a pair of skis.
  • tmontytmonty Posts: 16

    Yes, you're right, I meant 'decrease' and not 'increase' gas mileage. Meant one thing, wrote another. Regarding the engine comparison, the XT engine is clearly more sophisticated in terms of the technology add-ons that it brings to bare. However, putting that aside, one cannot say that the turbo is like the cookie jar in the cupboard- you only pay the penalty around the waist line if and when you reach for it. The turbo is in-line with the exhaust and there'll be some base-line back pressure no matter how good the turbo implementation is. The apples-to-apples highway mpg comparison of the 2.5i vs 2.5T mpg bears it out (putting aside secondary contributing variances: tire selection, final drive ratio, etc).

    Regarding the comment about "slight premium for premium fuel"... I don't consider a 15% surcharge 'slight' - though I'll concede that the higher sticker price & insurance will trump any concern over fuel costs.

    All in all, the 250hp XT is a treat to drive but there are, IMHO, significant cost implications. If you're a new buyer, do the math, think about it, and if you're still ok with it - knock yourself out!

  • rob_mrob_m Somewhere North of BostonPosts: 813
    Sedan has a pass-through.

    Fold down seats would be a nice feature (hint, hint). My 99 GT sedan has 60/40 fold down seats, and I have used them on many occasions. Rob M.
  • Thanks, Tim. I forgot I had put the Hakkepillita snows on the XT a week after I got it. I'll check the mileage again in the spring. We have that crappy oxygenated fuel here in Wisconsin too.

    I love the car overall as well.

  • tmontytmonty Posts: 16
    Good stuff. I was surprised by Ford's ranking though. mmmmh. I would have thought that the GM products would have done better. My anecdotal information from people that I know who have Fords & Chrysler... stay away. GM products on the other hand...
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    look at those expensive europeon brands - VW, BMW& Merc-B. I would look stupid spending so much money & have worst possible reliability.
  • lumbarlumbar Posts: 421
    I'm not that familiar with how CR operates, but, reading the link, it appears that the top ranking is restricted only to model year 2004 vehicles. Is that correct?
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    Tongue in cheek: do you really believe this report? The same one that says the Sonata is the most reliable car in America?? I know Hyundai has made improvements but not that much.

    But as another poster noted in another thread, the 817K consumers polled represent about 1/3 of 1% of the 245 MILLION car owners in the US. Is this a big enough survey?
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    it is the most trusted source in america
  • CR will often publish extremely puzzling "facts." Frequently, they even contradict themselves from issue to issue. I take their publication with a large grain of salt!
    If I had the subwoofer installed, as I paid for it, should I have additional menu selections from the stereo? Like a separate volume adjustment?
    I normally wouldn't consider performance upgrades due to risk of damagin engine, etc., but some of the offerings are pretty enticing. Does anyone know anything about the Cobb ECU programming product which claims 45 increase in hp? Since the Legacy GT has basically the same engine as the STI, why not tap some extra power. After all, the new Lotus Elise achieves all its extra hp from its Toyota engine by simple tuning. Any thoughts?
  • sdufordsduford Posts: 577
    This ranking is only for the 2004 model year, which shows only initial quality (aka assembly quality). It has absolutely nothing to do with long term reliability, which is what is really important. Actually if you look at the stats for the 2003 model year, the number of problems has already nearly doubled.

  • I was trying to find more pics of outbacks and came upon the subaru's japan website.
    If you select the 3.0 LL Bean edition and check out the black, it appears to look a little different than what the US subaru website shows... the japan black is two tone... while the US black is monotone...

    does anyone know if this combination is really not available in n. america?... I like the two-tone black a lot more than the monotone black!... thanks in advance!
  • mcaspe1mcaspe1 Posts: 1
    Hello all,

    I test drove a ’05 Legacy GT yesterday and was totally impressed. I have a couple of concerns though.
    First is the turbo. I am concerned about the quality and durability of the turbo charger in the Subaru. Will it break down on me right after the warrantee expires? Will it hold up well with a person who beats on their car? If there is anyone who has owned a Legacy GT for a while out there I would appreciate their input.
    Second is the lack of stability control, does anyone have any input in that?
    I am seriously considering on buying this car. Any input is helpful.

  • ntk1ntk1 Posts: 57
    Info on Cobb - I have installed the Cobb tuning AcessPORT stage 1 map.
    This entails reprogramming the ECU with the device you purchase from Cobb, no other changes are necessary. This will give you appx 30 HP more than stock and (importantly for me) will get rid of that engine stuttering that a lot of owners experience. The AcessPORT costs $645 and they offer a 30 day money back guarantee. To my knowledge, no one has ever returned a unit. Since installing this upgrade my car is transformed, the engine is ten times smoother through the rev range and pulls like a freight train, this is how the engine should have been tuned from stock !! for more info look at legacygtdotcom in the turbo powertrain forum and check out cobbtuningdotcom for details of the accessport


  • hondafriekhondafriek Ottawa CanadaPosts: 2,969
    I hope realise that in doing this you
    have probably kissed your warranty goodbye.

    Cheers Pat.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    note that legacy had a 170hp turbo in early 90s which didn;t have any problem.

    shame on you asking the WRC three time winner that if turbo will fail (just kidding).

    see consumer reports 2005, the most reliable brand for 2004 is Subaru, yes ahead of honda/toyota.

    yes, stability control (VDC, subaru's is very effective) would be nice. it depends on how badly you need to buy. FOr e.g i am waiting till early next year to see if 2006 model will have it. we will know in NY auto show in apr 2005.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    how does it compare to Vishnu's ?

    what happened to your gas mileage ?

    i suppose i can do this once 3-yr warranty expires ?
  • dsattlerdsattler Posts: 135
    First, keep in mind that Subaru has been using turbos for a good long while, and the WRX and STi have been in this country, enduring American drivers, for a few years and have had no problems.

    I've had my Legacy GT Limited wagon since June (11,000 miles), through several snow storms and lots of rain and sleet, and never had a problem or wished for stability control. There were a number of times I drove up snowy hills past spinning, swerving SUVs.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Would be nice, and Subaru needs to address this, because it is easily the feature most asked for by prospective buyers.

    Having said that, S/C will maximize what traction is available, but only AWD or a LSD will actually increase the amount of traction available.

    Ideally you'd have both, but I'd pick AWD over S/C alone, any day.

  • krzysskrzyss Posts: 845
    car with proper tires above any mechanical devices (RWD, FWD, AWD, LSD , etc., etc.).

  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    sub AWD makes a difference. there have been days where there is upto 3 ft of snow, i never showel. i put my OB to test & it always works !!!

    my MPV with traction control & good winter tires won;t. i will still need to showel
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    True, but you control tire choice. It's a little harder to add AWD to an existing vehicle.

  • katwaykatway Posts: 19
    From their tract record, Subaru turbos appear to have reasonable reliability. Nevertheless, turbos are generally not as reliable as normally aspirated vehicles because they generate extreme amounts of heat and result in more engine wear. Thus, while the technology for turbo engines is much improved, they still wear a little harder than normally aspirated engines.

    With respect to stability control, I personally do not view it as something that is there to help you in everyday situations to gain traction in basic weather conditions. I view it as being there in an emergency to assist you in making the correct move to avoid disaster. My VDC's stability control has come into play on a couple occassions and I was thoroughly satisfied with its performance. It gives me peace of mind to know that it is there if/when I need it. The real benefit to stability control is the ability of the car to react to road conditions quicker than those conditions can be communicated to (or even recognized by) the driver. In those situations where you don't even realize the ice is there, etc. is where stability control really shines.
  • aptoscaaptosca Posts: 8
    I just got a letter from SOA that they want me to reflash my 2005 VDC. They say the new programming allows the ECU to override manual mode in cases where transmission damage would occur.
  • pklongpklong Posts: 1
    Ok, I am looking at getting a 2005 Outback XT and noticed that it says premium unleaded fuel. Obviously the car won't blow up if I put regular unleaded in it, but, will I notice the difference if I don't? I guess asking anyone for their thoughts on if premium HAS to be used or for the most part can you get away with regular unleaded. Looks like we will be getting to $3/gallon prices this summer for regular unleaded looking at the forecasts.
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    Assembly quality is important. Some people just have it etched in their brains that Hyundais will always be the worst car you can buy and will never improve to quality levels of Japanese brands.
    It is super annoying to have to go back to the dealer 5 times with a brand-new car that was sloppily put together at the factory. These first impressions can ruin your enjoyment of the car and make you say "If it's already falling apart after 2 weeks, what's going to happen in a year?"
    Don't discount "initial quality."
    One of the main reasons I'm not going to buy a Hyundai is because so many people want to refuse to believe they have improved and that perception will hurt the resale value down the road.
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,550
    Looks like we will be getting to $3/gallon prices this summer for regular unleaded looking at the forecasts.

    As gas prices increase, the premium for premium actually decreases. :-)

    $3.20 vs. $3.00 (6.7% premium) is better than $1.20 vs. $1.00 (20% premium)

  • tmontytmonty Posts: 16
    ...assuming the bump up is fixed at current levels. I wouldn't count on it.

  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Subaru has long been in the business for developing turbocharged cars. As already mentioned, the Legacys from the early 90s were turbocharged and were known for their reliability.
    The turbo in the Legacy GT (as well as the Outback XT and Forester XT) share the same block and internals as the 300HP WRX STi engine. The non-WRX STi turbo models simply have smaller turbos running lower boost to make less power. Given that the engine block was designed to run on a high peroformance vehicle such as the STi that is asking for hard driving, reliability should not be an issue with a lower boost 250HP tuning.

    Also, the WRX STi and Forester XT have been out for a couple years now. Despite the enthusiast crowd it has attracted (especially with the STi), there have not been reliability issues that I know of.

    FWIW, I have been driving my Legacy GT wagon for 9 months now with no problems.

    Stability control comes into play for emergency at the limit handling. I do feel it is one area Subaru does need to catch up in by offering this option to other vehicles. For most drivers, stability control probably has more emergency maneuver benefits than AWD. It does help to control the vehicle in ways that are not possible by driver intervention and skill alone.

    However, as being a LGT owner, I would not write off a vehicle simply because it does not have stability control. While stability control does help at the limit, it is not a fool proof system and not all stability control is created equal. I would rather have a well balanced chassis with AWD rather than a add-on stability control system to a poorly designed vehicle.

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