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Toyota Prius



  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,694
    Yes its very lonely over there. Which is strange for me because when I owned my VW Beetle (1974) it was a very popular car and it was easy to find other people interested in them. Generally I find if someone owns an ECHO they cant say enough good things about it! At least the Yaris seems to be selling pretty well however.
    The FZ-1 gets about 38-40 mpg riding it to work and 45 mpg if you take it on a trip. My BMW F650 (fuel injected) would rack up 75 mpg if you rode it 45 mpg on back roads. It would still manage 60 mpg on trips. Too bad its FI system didnt work properly and the dealer couldnt fix it.
    At $7500, the FZ-1 is a space ship for cheap. It will out accelerate a Dodge Viper. I try to take it in small doses. Unfortunately it doesnt have an aerodynamic fairing so it becomes hard to control over 100 mph.(although it gets there in well under ten seconds if you want) Often overlooked are the brakes which stop the bike faster than the engine can accelerate it.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Once a week you make this same arguement and it fits for you. Enjoy your Echo. I've sold many and ridden in hundreds, they are just not my cup of tea. But that's what so great about this country everyone can fit into it differently.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,086
    I know it gets a little lonely over there in the ECHO discussion

    Maybe that is because they are trouble free. Many of us hang out here at the Prius discussion to see who comes in with a broken Prius. Of course you guys scare off most people with problems on the Prius. Totally in disbelief until Toyota reluctantly admits they screwed up. I left the Passat TDI thread because they just go and go and go without any problems. How boring a thread is that? The last post was in April. That said, a lot of the people that post on this thread are not Prius owners. Just skeptics like me.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,694
    Its just so obvious to me that the answer to our energy/enconomy problems is smaller cars like the ECHO. (they could be smaller than that too) If we dont start reducing our demand for energy NOW Im afraid the cost of energy is going to do serious dammage. The Prius is a remarkably built vehicle that works well mechanically. Im suprised it has been relatively reliable. No one else builds a hybrid as well. Which makes me doubly glad I have a car made by Toyota! I just cant shut up about it.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Its just so obvious to me that the answer to our energy/economy problems is smaller cars like the ECHO.

    Heck, all people have to do to use less gas is to simply obey the speed limit. Many simply don't care. So expecting them to switch to a tiny vehicle with far less power is totally unrealistic.

    Of course, Echo MPG is poor in stop & slow traffic (the daily commute for many) compared to a "full" hybrid. Echo is significantly dirtier too.

    So the "small car" suggestion isn't actually a solution... especially when you consider how the automakers complain about the low profit they provide. That sure sounds like it will end up hurting the economy, not helping.

    Lastly, why do you think an Echo debate will finally win now? For the last 6 years, no compelling facts have revealed it as the better choice.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Many of us hang out here at the Prius discussion to see who comes in with a broken Prius.

    Yes, well... I guess we all get our jollies in different ways.

    If you want to read about the Passat TDI problems, maybe you are looking in the wrong discussion. There's quite a few Passat TDI problems covered in the Passat Problems & Solutions discussion.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,694
    The ECHO is history but the Yaris is selling pretty well from what I hear. Im optimistic that people considering a Yaris are reading the ECHO forum. If so they are finding out how happy ECHO owners are and how reliable it is. They also know the ECHO/yaris is a slam dunk bottom line compared to the Prius.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,086
    If you want to read about the Passat TDI problems

    It seems that both Toyota and VW have ironed out the problems in the Prius and Passat TDI. I kind of miss the Passat. I like having the $29k back in the bank better. It was an experiment and it went as planned.

    I am surprised that you never bit the bullet and bought a Prius. You have been one of the gungho advocates since the beginning. Actually you will probably have a lower 5 year TCO than if you had bought Prius over the Elantra.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Except I was looking at a minimum 7-year TCO and it was heavily in favor of the Elantra, with a $9000 differential in up-front purchase price. Still, I really wanted that Prius I ordered and would have it now had it arrived when the dealer said it would, before the lease on my van expired.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,086
    I think more Americans look at car purchasing the way you do than John does. That Prius Premium keeps getting bigger. Toyota made statements that it would be less with time. That was 3 years ago and a Prius costs far more today than 3 years ago. If you buy one in San Diego with a Pkg 8 the TMV price is $31,119. With TTL you are pushing $35k. that is a lot of money for most Americans. It is also $5k over a fully loaded VW Jetta TDI, that is capable of equal MPG as the Prius. If you are looking at TCO for 7 years. I believe a GMC PU truck will have a lower TCO than a Prius.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Every person has to look at TCO based on his/her own requirements. With the few miles I drive, it's hard to make TCO come out in favor of the Prius. But with more miles driven, and for someone who would not consider a low-bucks car like an Elantra as an alternative to the Prius, the TCO equation can be a lot different. For example, when I did the TCO comparison between the Prius and the Matrix, there was little difference.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,086
    See my response in most bang for the buck...
  • glen4glen4 Posts: 9
    Being a proud owner of a 2004 Prius with now 35k mile of trouble free performance I am most interested in the Add Batteries package. I am pretty handy and not unfamiliar with Ohms Law ,etc. Where can I discuss this matter of buying this stuff ?
  • canccanc Posts: 715
    I agree with you partly on that one--the Echo/Yaris is definitely a part of the solution, but I think hybrids have also their share of the pie. As others have mentioned, the Prius is cleaner and is more efficient in stop-and-go driving. Hybrids and small cars are definitely the way of the future--buying an SUV just because of the looks or the illusion that they're safer isn't.

    The Echo is a great car for many, but for tall people like me who do a lot of highway mileage, it isn't the best car. The Prius, in this respect, is more comfortable, and the interio space is better than the Echo or Yaris. I test drove both, and prefer the Prius for its roominess and comfort on the highway.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Not very many out of 250,000 or so on the road here now.

    You last point is the most relevant
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Its just so obvious to me that the answer to our energy/enconomy problems is smaller cars like the ECHO. (they could be smaller than that too) If we dont start reducing our demand for energy NOW Im afraid the cost of energy is going to do serious dammage.

    Thats a very utopian pov but too idealistic and too rigid to be imposed on such a varied country as ours. Everyone can't be put into the same little brown box. Given this reality what are the solutions?

    The best is to give each their own choice of vehicles but just make them all more Echo-like or Prius-like or TDI-like. With anyother solution you are just screaming at the wind to stop blowing.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Again you are wrong and miss that the largest part of the driving public will never ever consider a Yaris or an Echo or a Fit or Versa.

    Yes there will be buyers but a huge success for the Yaris would be 50,000 units ( or about half the Prius sales ). Why do you want to take people out of larger more comfortable, safer, better-equipped vehicles that also get 25% better FE and put them into a tiny stripped out box?

    Do you really think that's realistic?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,086
    Do you really think that's realistic?

    I have to agree. I would not buy a Yaris to get only 37 MPG combined. Not worth the risk. About half of what I would want to take that risk.

    I was getting my first oil change on my GMC Hybrid Sierra today. I walked across the street to Poway Toyota. They had a FJ Cruiser sitting unlocked on the ramp. I got in adjusted the front seat. Got out and opened the back door and got in to check it out. Very dark and not much leg room. Head room was OK. I liked the inclinometer on the dash. No NAV and it was just under $31k. I got in a new Avalon and it was nice. Then strolled through the lot. Counted 3 Highlander Hybrids offered at just over invoice. Did not see any Prius or TCH. I was never asked if I needed help. Toyota is getting lazy and can and will fall.

    At Greiner GMC/Buick/Pontiac I had not gotten the front door open before a salesman was there to help. If buying a sedan today I would buy the Buick Lucernce over the Toyota Avalon. I wish my wife's 1990 LS400 was not in such great shape. It is still nicer looking than 99% of the new cars.

    I would not buy any small car for sale in the USA today. Not worth the added safety risk. Maybe with a 70 MPG diesel engine.

    They had a little Yaris right on the street. It is smaller than my sandal. I would need two one for each foot.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,694
    Of course people dont have to buy just an ECHO. They could buy any similiar car. They may not like doing that. It all depends on what the price of gas does. If it goes up to $10 a gallon, I cant understand how driving a 25 mpg car is a viable option. If we dont curb our increasing demand for oil, who knows how high the price of oil will go? It might be a luxury to drive even an enclosed car of 500 pounds in weight and 7 horsepower. Most of us will be on mopeds!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Why any similar car?

    Why not a nicer safer larger vehicle that is even more efficient? This can be had now? Why waste resources on an Echo or Fit or Rio that 'only' gets 35 mpg combined when there are vehicles out there today that can save 30% more fuel than these econoboxes?

    If your goal is to save resources, why not a Lexus that burns biofuel needing no dino fuel and has a hybrid 'multiplier' added for ultra efficiency?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,694
    Which vehicles are those? How much are they?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Prius and HCH ( and probably the Fit hybrid )... Price is of no concern since your main consideration from your post is getting off the addiction to oil.

    Which is it? Is vehicle price more important or is using less fuel more important?

    People choose the Prius because it is bigger, more comfortable, quicker, safer and more feature-laden than an Echo/Yaris.... plus it gets 30% better fuel economy.
    Yaris/Echo = abt 2.85 gpc ( 35 mpg )
    Prius II = currently I am at 1.96 gpc ( 51+ mpg )

    The price difference is simply because the Prius has more to it than it's two smaller siblings.... and it gets better fuel economy. That's a nice combination.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,086
    If it goes up to $10 a gallon, I cant understand how driving a 25 mpg car is a viable option

    I think we may have lost perspective. Even at $10 per gallon it is less of my disposable income than it was in 1961 when I went into the job market. Gas was 35 cents a gallon and I made $1.25 per hour. Now gas is $3 per gallon and my package when I retired in April was over $50 per hour. So gas could go to $15 per gallon and not be as big of a burden as it was in 1961. Plus my cars back then were lucky to get 10 MPG. At least my PU is about 15 MPG. I also commuted 21 miles to work in 1961. I would not give up the safety and comfort for so little gain as the Echo/Yaris sized vehicle offers. Give me a little electric car to run my errands and leave plugged into the wall and I will consider buying one.

    I agree with kdhspyder that comfort is more important to most people than fuel economy. With the TCH or even the Prius you can have both.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,694
    No my posts about the ECHO and the Prius have always been about the false economy of the Prius. My posts are about having your cake and eating it too. With the Prius you can have your cake but its going to cost you a lot more.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The Prius does cost more than the Echo/Yaris because it's more car. That's pretty obvious. A Lexus ES350 is more car yet.

    You say false economy??? The Prius gets better FE than either the old Echo or new Yaris. How is that false?

    Your arguments seem to flip from saving fuel ( the Prius and HCH are certainly better ) to buying at a lower price ( the Echo and Yaris fit that bill ). Both are obvious.

    So which do you prefer? Save resources? Spend less to own transportation? From your posts you seem to prefer to spend less to own transportation, yet spend more in fuel in order to purchase other means of transportation - the motorcycle - for fun. That's a good choice.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,694
    Gotta save fuel. Gotta be cheap too.
  • yellowmanyellowman Posts: 209
    Hi all,

    My mom just ordered a 2006 Prius. Amazingly, we got a Package 7 for a near-MSRP price of $28,221. According to, that's just $186 over MSRP, whereas most dealerships we visited wanted anywhere from $2,000 to $4,500 over MSRP.

    Anyway, now that the thing is ordered, I was wondering if there's a way to track it as it's built and shipped to the dealer. I did this with my Jeep Wrangler and it was great fun watching the progress. Please let me (and other new Prius buyers) know!

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,694
    I just bought an electric scooter which is cheaper still.I understand the $3000 rebate ends after , what, 60,000 cars are sold. (per manufacturer, is that right?) I didnt get any rebate on the scooter though. :cry:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905

    You see, taxpayers may claim the full amount of the allowable credit up to the end of the first calendar quarter after the quarter in which a car manufacturer records its sale of the 60,000th qualifying vehicle. Once a manufacturer sells 60,000 qualifying vehicles, the tax credit begins to phase out; first to 50 percent, then to 25 percent, and finally -- no credit is allowed after the fifth quarter following the quarter in which the 60,000th vehicle is sold. ... Toyota and Lexus hybrid purchasers at the least will be able to claim the full credit until the end of the third calendar quarter, September 30, 2006.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,694
    Good for them. They will need it!
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