2016 Civic Design Flaw

alternator

I am red/green color blind (as are about 8% percent of all US males).

Having to look down and to my right to see the Shift Lever Position Indicator display on the floor has for many years been an annoyance and a safety hazard for me.

After years of hoping for a return to the usual 1950's shift position displayed in the dash directly in front of me, I was so pleased to see such a display in my 2014 Honda Civic (P R N D S L). Hurrah!

Now, however, it seems Honda has stepped backwards. The drivers manual I have seen for the 2016 Civic shows a Shift Lever Position Indicator in the dash consisting of only one letter (either P,R,N,D,S or L). In a panic situation, that might cause me a split-second delay in choosing a different gear. Someone didn't think this through. I'm not happy about this.

Mr_Shiftright

Well this is sort of the situation with digital vs. analog clocks isn't it? You can't see where the hand of the clock, (or the pointer for the transmission) is headed. The readout is not in relation to anything else. Does this analogy make sense?

If so, I'm wondering if, in an actual car driven in real world conditions, you wouldn't get used to it, just by feel of the position of the gearshift.

isellhondas

If always made me chuckle about how some people would complain about something nobody else even gave the slightest thought to.

thecardoc3

isellhondas said:

If always made me chuckle about how some people would complain about something nobody else even gave the slightest thought to.

It would be funny except when they fill out the CSI cards and they negatively impact the technician's scores. There was no process to remove complaints, period. Meanwhile it's improbable to be able to fix something that isn't broke.

alternator

What I see as a flaw is so easily correctible, why would they regress? It will keep me from buying a new Civic without a doubt. If you don't have a color deficiency you probably can't understand my concerns.

isellhondas

Again, what is a "flaw" to one person can be of no comcern to the masses.

I understand your color blindness but even so, isn't this something you would quickly get used to?

BTW, I saw a beautiful new black 2016 Civic EX yesterday for the first time. I was knocked over and until I saw the Civic badge I honestly thought it was an Accord. WOW! did Honda do a great job on these!

isellhondas

thecardoc3 said:

isellhondas said:

If always made me chuckle about how some people would complain about something nobody else even gave the slightest thought to.

It would be funny except when they fill out the CSI cards and they negatively impact the technician's scores. There was no process to remove complaints, period. Meanwhile it's improbable to be able to fix something that isn't broke.

Oh, you're right! Some tiny "problem" that affects hardly anyone can generate a bad survey.

And, if Honda were to switch back to the old shift pattern there would be someone complaining about that too!

hondaretailer

I wouldn't call it a design flaw at all. I'd guess Honda looked at the 8% of the population and found that perhaps 1/1000th of the 8% that would buy a Civic would be affected and probably thought they wouldn't miss the new business or that the 320 could make due? Just a guess, but you can't build a mass-produced product for a small percentage of the population. Just like Honda can't build a Civic for the 3.9% of US males that are over 6'6".

stever

hondaretailer said:

you can't build a mass-produced product for a small percentage of the population.

OT, but they do build the Honda CR-Z.

isellhondas

I sued to get a kick out of some the comments I would hear.

" Oh, those tailights are UGLY"

" I love what they did with the tailights!"

Same with colors. Ever so often Honda would come out with a horrible color yet as much as we and our customers despised that color it would always appeal to just a few people.

As they say in the car business..." There's a "butt" for every seat"

Go figure?

isellhondas

stever said:

hondaretailer said:

you can't build a mass-produced product for a small percentage of the population.

OT, but they do build the Honda CR-Z.

Yeah they do but they don't sell very many of them.

alternator

I used to get empathy from this forum, not snotty remarks. That's sad.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, no, some of us are very interested in your perception of the problem. I'm trying to understand how the color blindness affects the gear shifting. Tell me more about that.

stever

Not your experience, but maybe in such a situation for most of us, it would be more automatic to look down at the console anyway, since if you wanted to quickly change gears, you'd have to go to the shifter anyway. I tend to rely on the shifter position myself instead of the indicator light, but I haven't had a car with a console shifter in decades.

The dash, with the gear indicator in red:



The console, with indicators in red (the active selection) and white (all the rest).

alternator

Under some lighting I can look down at the transmission tunnel and see what gear I'm in and where I want to shift to.

But with most lighting, I cannot make anything out on that display. I'd just like to see the same P R N D S L display that worked well for many, many years and which had made a comeback in the 2014 and other Civics.

isellhondas

Being snotty wasn't my goal. I was simply pointing out how something that most people don't care about can cost the sale of a car. I had that happen more often than you would think.

It just seems (to me anyway) that a person would quickly get used to the change.

If enough people complain they could change back to the old pattern. Honda does listen and I suspect they monitor
some of these forums.

alternator

Question for those without color deficiency: Would you like to look down at the transmission tunnel and see only a single letter? Really try to imagine that please.

isellhondas

OK, makes more sense now.

alternator

On the 2016 Honda Civic, yes.

stever

I was thinking I'd look down and see a missing gap among the white letters that would indicate what gear I was in. But I'm not color blind so who knows.

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe you're more adaptable then you give yourself credit for. For instance (this isn't a great analogy but it has some bearing), those of us who drive stick shift don't look down at the tunnel to know what gear we are in. We sense it from the position of the lever and also how the car sounds/behaves (and even from the tachometer, for that matter).

What kind of mistake are you afraid of making, specifically?

carboy21

What kind of mistake are you afraid of making, specifically?

D instead of R is the only significant mistake I can think of

alternator

I am posting my concern to American Honda tomorrow. Will let you know if I get a response. Further replies here will not be needed.

lyndean

I'm not saying I'm ancient or have more driving experience than anyone here, but I've been driving for over 25 years and can't remember the last time I had to change gears in a panic situation with an automatic transmission. I put myself in whatever gear I need at a full stop and then move. I'm very curious what you think you would need to do while driving that would be hampered by this complaint.

alternator

Is it so difficult to understand that any time I may need to make a sudden choice of gear, I like to see the gear I'm in and the choices available? And I'd like to see that display right in front of me. I doubt if I'm the only one in the world that feels that way. But in any case, thanks to all who showed an interest in this.

thecardoc3

alternator said:

Question for those without color deficiency: Would you like to look down at the transmission tunnel and see only a single letter? Really try to imagine that please.

It's a rare occasion that I look at the shift indicator. I rely on feeling the detent in the linkage 99% of the time. The one percent that I start looking is when something doesn't feel right, and then you usually can't trust the indicator anyway.

lyndean

alternator said:

Is it so difficult to understand that any time I may need to make a sudden choice of gear, I like to see the gear I'm in and the choices available? And I'd like to see that display right in front of me. I doubt if I'm the only one in the world that feels that way. But in any case, thanks to all who showed an interest in this.

And I ask again, with an automatic transmission, what sudden gear choice or you going to make? You're not going to shift from drive to reverse or vice versa while the car is moving, or put the car in park either.

andie_ny

I just test-drove the 2016 Honda EX CVT today, and I am NOT color blind, but I was a little distracted because I was conversing with the salesman in the car and when I looked at the dash (expecting to see P R N D, etc.), I couldn't tell what gear it was in and the salesmen had to point it out to me. It's just a matter of most of us getting used to it. However, I can see alternator's point since he is color blind and the letter shows up in red. I drive an automatic and I don't use the other high and low gears, so this would not be a concern for me. However, for someone who is color blind, I can definitely see it as an issue.

alternator

Thank you andi. I thought I had done all I could to explain why this was important to me. I can't help it if some believe I'm over-sensitive or whatever.

I'll just say that I've driven over 1.5 million miles, over a period of 70 years, without a chargeable traffic offense, and I've always been thankful for cars that have the gear choices prominently displayed on the instrument panel.

lyndean

One thing I didn't even think about when we argued about this earlier in the thread because I never paid attention, the only letters that show up in red on the dashboard are P for park and N for neutral. All the other letters show up as white, which I can't imagine would be a problem for someone who is color blind. If you can't tell if you are in park or neutral while the car is in motion, you have other issues.

alternator

Now it is certain who has "other issues"

I'm out of here

lyndean

I should have said one would have other issues. I didn't mean you in particular.

Let me put it another way. The car will never be in park while someone is driving. Every other gearing selection shows up on the dashboard as a white letter, except for neutral. So, if one is color blind and can't see a gear selection while the car is in motion, they are in neutral. Any other option would be seen, and the letters are much larger than the old P RNDL displays that used to show on the dash. In my opinion, it actually makes it easier to see what gear you're in than the old way.