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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ



  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Allen, you said this back in 2006, speaking first of the coming MKS:

    "It's one model, folks - 50K units. In the meantime they're adding the 3.5L and AWD (not just FWD) to the Zeph...err...MKZ in addition to new interior and exterior styling and introducing a totally new vehicle in the MKX.

    Let's talk about timeframes from concept to production:

    Mustang - concept introduced at NAIAS in Jan. 2003, production version shown at NAIAS in Jan. 2004, production Sept. 2004.

    Ford GT - concept introduced at NAIAS in Jan. 2002, first production version June 2003, production April 2004.

    I'm not saying they don't need it now but 2 years is not totally out of line."
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Allen (from the MKS discussion):
    "If you define success as flash in the pan designs that are popular today and forgotten tomorrow, then yes they are successful. The [Chrysler] 300 will sell good at first then fall off as people tire of the in-your-face styling and they'll have to start over with something totally new. Meanwhile, the 500 will soldier on with steady sales for years to come with just a few tweaks. When they freshen up the front of the 500 and add the 3.5L V6 I bet it easily outsells the 300."
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    Hybrids are definitely profitable for Ford - they have been for several years. And the MKZ hybrid is in high demand and garnering a lot of conquest sales. And it won't be hard to add a plug-in hybrid.

    I've repeatedly listed all he things that make this turnaround effort different than past efforts. Mulally is the main difference, followed by a dedicated Lincoln staff of over 100 including Max Wolf and no other brands to be distracted by (Mercury, Jag, Aston-Martin or Land Rover). I don't know why you keep dismissing this since it's exactly what Cadillac did years ago. The fact that you keep bringing up the MKT and MKS tells me you don't get it.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Allen, in 2008 you predicted at least 40K yearly sales for the forthcoming MKT (you initially played with 100K, but didn't really ">mean it), saying at 40K and a shared platform, they could still make money.

    In 2010, Lincoln did manage to move 7400 of the suckers, but sales have been lower since.

    Now, Lincoln needs people like you...died in the wool supporters through thick and thin. I want you to start being right with your predictions. Let's do a review in another 2 years. :shades:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yep, I don't get it.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    I remember saying that about the Flex because that's what Ford said but not the MKT. But I'm not going back to check. If I said that I was delusional. The MKT and MKS did show that Lincoln had started to do unique sheetmetal and interiors rather than the rebadgine of the past.

    I agree we should just wait another year at least otherwise we'll just be rehashing the same thing over and over again.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I'm sorry to report you did actually say it. You started off speculating that:
    "If you consider that 16M vehicles will be sold this year and 100K is a good sales target - that means you only have to convince 6.25 people out of every 1000 buyers. And it probably means you can sell at a premium instead of bargain basement."

    Confronted by heyjoe, you responded:
    "I just used 100,000 as a round number - I don't think Ford has released its sales target yet. 40,000 wouldn't surprise me - with a shared platform and normal pricing they can make money at that volume. And that means they only need to convince 2 or 3 people per 1000 buyers."

    Now, all of us occasionally say things we regret. I certainly have. Let's give the new team two more years to simply start being a real player in this premium category. I've put November, 2015 in my calendar. Let's do another review then. Every premium brand of course gets two more years of development as well.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    Yep - delusional.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    edited November 2013
    Haha, are often grounded in reality more than most of us. But everything is a circle. Go too far in that reality direction, and the next marking on the dial is delusion.

    All of us here are speculating. Guessing. The group comes closest to reality when there are all points of views represented. This forum needs your input, because you represent those people who truly believe Lincoln can do it.

    I truly enjoy sparring with you. You also occasionally provide inside information that I do not yet, back to our corners.

    I agree that the MKZ is relatively salvageable. Some styling tweaks could work wonders. You know I don't normally say this about any vehicle. The Ford 500 was not salvageable with styling tweaks and the market proved that.for the MKZ, some drivetrain improvements, and some interior engineering to carve out a bit more back seat room, like Chevy has done with the Malibu in one year's time, could help a lot.

    so why not do like Honda did with the Civic in one year or Chevy is doing with the Malibu in one year? Why wait for a mid cycle refresh for the MKZ?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    I don't think they're waiting for a mid cycle refresh, I think they're waiting for black label and the 2.3L EB to be available which should be this time next year for the 2015 model. Not sure they can make any big styling tweaks without major changes underneath like they did with the MKC.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,042
    A few posts have been removed (akirby & gregg: not yours).

    Let's keep personal insults out of here. We're not that kind of forum.


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    Share your vehicle reviews

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    It's a civil forum and we'd like to keep it that way.
  • I have a 07 mkz transfercase seal is leaking,new seal and it still leaks.Think it may need to be replaced,just looking for some info .
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    If it's the AWD PTU, the latest seal replacement kit and instructions should solve it permanently. Some dealers don't install it correctly. I don't think you need to replace it yet.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Lincoln managed to increase sales over November, 2012, but that increase was on a monthly total of less than 6,000 units back then. Thank goodness for the MKZ. Its sales seem to have stabilized at around 2,800 units per month. Not what was hoped for, but nevertheless better than every other model Lincoln markets today by a long shot.

    Meanwhile, Cadillac's approach is slowly but surely paying dividends. Three new sedans in the last year, and all are doing fairly well. The new CTS (Car of the Year) is just beginning to build at 2,643 November units. The ATS is taking off at 3,443 units, and the XTS is a surprise to me at 3,417 units. That is beginning to approach the Ford Taurus 4,901 units and the XTS is a significantly more expensive car, even with discounts.

    The new Escalade is already getting good press and it won't go on sale until early next year. Lincoln badly needs a thorough Navigator update.

    So, the MKZ is a small bright spot. Everything else Lincoln needs a revamp, and of course the MKZ needs some drivetrain tweaks too.

    It will be a long road. 2013 will likely be another year of decreased Lincoln brand annual sales. It took Audi the better part of two decades to rebuild to its current status. Given the even more competitive market now, it may take Lincoln at least as long. More and more mainstream brands are introducing premium cars. The new Genesis looks fantastic, and will now offer AWD. Same with the new Kia K900. But competition makes everyone better, and will surely weed out the chaff.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437

    Awfully quiet here. I see MKZ has more or less sold 3K units a month since production was sorted out. MKC now due to arrive this summer. That should help a lot, since the small CUV category is so hot. I saw a rumor they plan to lightly refresh the MKS once more before replacing the current one. I hope that is not true. Was in a Lincoln show room to test drive the MKZ hybrid. The MKS sitting there looked too tall, too heavy and too bland. Another nose will not fix that, and the money would be put to better use bringing an entirely new one to market a couple months sooner.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040

    They just demoted Wolf - not a good sign. I hope the lack of info means they're doing more dramatic changes. I understand taking your time and staying within a budget but some hints would be nice.

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 6,851

    @gregg_vw said:
    I saw a rumor they plan to lightly refresh the MKS once more before replacing the current one. I hope that is not true. Was in a Lincoln show room to test drive the MKZ hybrid. The MKS sitting there looked too tall, too heavy and too bland. Another nose will not fix that, and the money would be put to better use bringing an entirely new one to market a couple months sooner.

    Being based on the porky Taurus/Five Hundred, there is little they can do to make it less bulky.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • steverstever Posts: 52,683

    If you own a 2013 or 2014 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid, a reporter would like to talk with you. Please email no later than Friday, June 13, 2014 with your daytime contact information.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040

    Gee - I wonder why? :)

  • steverstever Posts: 52,683

    Was that one of the "Ford" models that had the EPA mileage derated (I'm on the road and way behind on the news).

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040

    Yes - mpg was reduced from 45 to 38 or so due to an error in the "coastdown" simulation formula. Ford found the discrepancy in its internal testing and is correcting it. Good that they found it and self-reported but not good that it took over a year to find it or that it happened in the first place.

  • texasestexases Posts: 7,901

    I'm surprised it's all the way down to 38. I'm getting 37+ in my 2011, I'd expect the newer powertrain to show some improvement.

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    New front end styling and 400 hp coming next year. Good on Lincoln.
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