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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ



  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    akirby, do me a favor if you please. Also ask your inside source why MKZ only offers 7 exterior colors. I was set for dark blue with tan interior but, no blue is offered. It's kind of bizarre that at least 9 colors are offered on Fusion, Milan and MKS but, only 7 on the MKZ.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    My source is an engineer and wouldn't know about color choices - that's a marketing decision. They do that from time to time - drop a particular color. My guess is the dark blue didn't sell very well in the past.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    And to be fair, gas mileage is still better than the 2006 Zephyr and 2007 MKZ. I suspect the 1 mpg doesn't translate into much difference in the real world, and it is probably due to the retuning to make the previous pokey 0-60 time (for a 263 hp engine) competitive with the ES350 et al.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    A good review and about what I would expect to be said about it..though I disagree that the new tail lights are ugly. I think they are quite an improvement over the previous ones, and have moved a bit closer to what Lincoln tail lights will look like on future models. That said, I do wish Ford would take the Hyundai approach (it was also the Lexus approach years ago) of giving near-Lexus quality and feel at a significantly lower price, in order to build recognition and market share of this model (then raising the price later). Giving more standard equipment at the same price doesn't necessarily accomplish the same thing. What is going to happen once again--as it does with most Ford products--is the expectation of large discounts when buying new, which markedly depresses resale value...and overall perception of the vehicle. Bottom line is, the MKZ is now nipping at Lexus heels, not surpassing it. Charge Lexus prices when Lincoln has actually changed the general perception of the buying public that it is as good or better than a Lexus. And that takes time.
  • That seems like a reasonable and prudent approach.
  • bobgwtwbobgwtw Posts: 187
    Had an opportunity to drive the 10 MKZ this weekend. It's quiet & is actually enjoyable to drive on the curving, rolling secondary roads I had an opportunity to drive, as well as the interstate.The car had the sport suspension so it rode like they forgot to put the springs under it on anything but a smooth road. (I had just driven a Fusion Hybrid over the same route & it was as quiet or quieter than the Z. It handled as well & the ride was much, much better on the rough patches). Interior is nice & of decent quality, but a lot of the switchgear is placed so it's necessary to take your eyes off the road to operate it.

    My one real complaint about the car is price. I want adaptive headlights, BU camera & the blindspot/cross traffic system that, after using them, I consider worthwhile safety additions, The only way I can get them on the Z is to buy packages containing items I don't want or need; and they push the sticker price to well over $40,000. This not a $40,000 car. A comparable Fusion, minus the adaptive headlights, with a less upscale interior lists for $11,000 less! This one is off my short list.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    In a previous post, I mentioned that Ford was careless with the pricing of the 2010 MKZ. IMO they have bumped up the price too much. They'll need big rebates to sell the car and that's not good for a car attempting to establish itself in this market segment. Another poster stated that the increase was in large part due to some items being made standard. I get that but, it doesn't change the fact that the price has gone up quite a bit. I think it a bit foolhardy for Ford to think that they can price the Z at the ES price point at this time especially when the Z is still lacking some of those refined touches that define such a car.
    As far as the options go, I too was frustrated when I went through the Z site and found that to get certain things, I had to order packages that included things I didn't want. If I didn't want them in the first place, I surely don't want to have to pay for them. I know other companies do the same thing, doesn't make it right. Making these things standalone options would help sales of the Z, IMO.
    I test drove the 07 and 08 Z and didn't like the ride. I thought it was a bit stiff. I would have no interest in the sport suspension. Glad they made that an option.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    They'll need big rebates to sell the car

    And you know this how? Just because it seems overpriced to you doesn't mean other buyers feel the same.

    Besides - Hermosillo is limited to about 300,000 Fusions, Milans and MKZs per year - total and the new Fusion and Milan should be able to sell almost that many on their own. Sounds like they decided to make the MKZ lower volume but higher profit. You may not like it but given the circumstances it sounds like the right business decision. I guess only time will tell.

    If the Fulans can sell close to 300,000 units on their own then my guess would be that with the next redesign the MKZ will get all of the currently missing features plus 100% unique sheetmetal and possibly move to another plant. But that's probably 3 years out.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    My source says the gearing was changed for 2010 for better acceleration which dropped FE from 28 to 27 highway. As I said before 27 still matches the competition but acceleration is better than the 2009 model. Sounds like a decent tradeoff.
  • huskie13huskie13 Posts: 10
    I traded in my 2006 Zephyr for the 2010 MKZ ultimate sport, Black.
    It is a blast to drive, it is quite, fast, and drives like so much better than my Zephyr. my car is number 1196 if i am reading the vin right.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    I have a Zephyr and will be getting a 2010 "something." One complaint I have with my 06 is engine noise during acceleration - it can get rather raucous. It just doesn't have that refined sound. How is the engine sound with the 10? When you say the 10 drives so much better than the 06, how so? Ride comfort? Handling? I'm much more interested in a comfortable ride. I got rid of my Maxima because I could no longer take the stiff suspension and I didn't get a pre-10 MKZ because I thought the MKZ's ride was somewhere between the Maxima and my 06.
    Also, out of curiosity, what audio system did you get? I kicked off a few posts concerning CD changer vs the new THX so, I'm a little interested in what buyers are going for.
  • huskie13huskie13 Posts: 10
    Tiger, the 10's engine is very refined, that was also one of my dislikes, when I got my Zephyr, i also test drove a ES350. and after that i didn't like the Zephyr that much. this engine is much more refined, sounds good, and has no vibration at idle.

    As I got the sport version the ride is stiff, but after the zephyr, i wanted that way as I like a performance feeling car.

    I have the THX and it sounds better than the Zephyr, very clear, but does not seem as loud? With the option of burning CDs to the HD way would you need a changer?

    let me know if you have any other questions.
  • texasestexases Posts: 7,771
    Am I correct that the only way to get the THX is in the package with the sunroof? That won't work for me...
  • beradberad Posts: 26
    I agree rebates will be needed to sell this car. The local Lincoln dealer has been moving the current generation well over a year by advertising it at $26K. The 2010 will have to find its way into this territory to move as well. That being said, the MKZ in a sub $30K territory will be very attractive against the family sedan competition and should have really its eyes set on the Acura TSX. The MKZ north of $34K enters into the land of the TL, G35, 3 Series, GS, CTS where its not just as refined in overall dynamics to compete.

    All that being said, I would wait till the 09 inventory is gone before buying this car. The discounts will come as they always do. If the 2010 rolls down to $26K it becomes a very compelling buy.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    Just happened to drive by the dealership where I bought my Zephyr and parked right out front by the road was a 2010 MKZ in black and tan interior. I pulled in and my Z salesman was there and offered me a test drive so, I went for it. Here are my observations comparing to my Z and strictly IMO.
    Mechanical: More powerful and refined engine. Slightly better ride. Not quite as good as the ES but, better than my Z. Quieter. Again not quite the ES but, pretty quiet. Seemed to handle about the same.
    Exterior: The first thing I noticed was the really big grill. It appears overdone. It's not as nice as the MKS front end. The MKZ grill reminded me of a mouthfull of horse teeth. Maybe it's something I could get used to but, for now, it just seems too massive. An article I read stated that the old ugly tail lights were replaced with new ugly tail lights. I agree. In fact, I like the old better. The new tail lights gave me the impression of a work in progress as though the back end wasn't finished yet. It reminded me of days gone by when the neighborhood kids would try and customize a car. They couldn't afford to go all out on it so, they would just replace what was there with something non-descript and you could see that something just wasn't right. Other than the grill and tail lights the exterior appeared identical.
    Interior: This is what really disappointed me. I didn't like it. The dash has a better layout but, it's downhill from there. The first thing that jumps out at you is the immense amount of black (even with the tan interior). Two thirds of the dash is black, the console is black and one third of the door panels is black. Even the seat trim piping (which I detest) is black. The scant amount of interior wood is lost in all of that black and is barely noticeable. It created a very dark and somber feeling; not at all like the light, cheery feel of my Z. I even prefer the old steering wheel. While sitting in the car, at no time did I get the impression that I was sitting in a "luxury" car. It just doesn't seem to convey that kind of dynamic. It quite honestly, felt more like a Fusion. It needs more wood, way less black and a little more elegance and less pedestrain feel. Even without the piping, the seats don't look anywhere near as rich and inviting as the ES.
    The 2010 MKZ is the car that should have been introduced in 06. Then, I think a 2010 refreshening could have made this car competive with the ES, CTS, Infinti, etc. I think it's still behind. And what is really going to punish sales is the new price point. The only options on the car on the lot was the Nav/stereo and moonroof. With tax, it came to almost $41K!!!! THIS IS NOT A $41,000 CAR. I believe this car to be at least $5K over priced. I think for this car to sell, Ford needs to come out with rebates in the $3000 to $3500 range. Otherwise, it's going to get killed. How many people out there are going to buy the MKZ when they can get a pretty much comparably equipped ES or Acura for the same price? I don't think many.
    Ford could have done a much better job on the 2010. IMO, the MKZ presents itself better online than it does in person. I really wanted to like this car but, I just don't. Check it out.
    Again, IMO.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    Given the current success of the Fusion and Milan and the fact that Hermosillo can only build 300K or so CD3s including the MKZ - I suspect that Ford is willing to cut back on MKZ volume and go for higher transaction prices.

    And while it may not have as much wood, the new interior looks way better than the old one. I actually bought a Fusion back in 05 over the Zephyr because of the interior. The wood was nice but the angle and design was terrible.

    IMO of course.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    IMO, the new grill and tail lights are an improvement. The old grill was too pedestrian, too anonymous. The new tail lights are more like the Lincoln signature, going almost (but not quite...don't know why they didn't extend them all the way) across the back.

    Your complaint about the interior is mostly about color. Some people prefer black interiors, but I don't like them either. Too much black, but to each his or her own. The 2010 interior however does use better materials and has better cut lines. To me it looks more competitive.

    And the thing is quiet. That is a must for a luxury car. Ford should have cut the price while giving more equipment. That is working for other companies. Bottom line, the current MKZ no matte what they do will be an also-ran until the next generation gives Lincoln something unique from a loaded Fusion.
  • I’ll second gregg_vw, to a point and offer a counterpoint to tiger16. My wife and I drove a 2010 MKZ a few weeks ago – silver with black interior. We thought it was quiet, rode with a nice balance of smoothness and road feel, and the engine didn’t sound too thrashy. Maybe we have low standards.

    We liked the black interior, although we wouldn’t buy black just for the heat gain, and didn’t think it looked too somber. We did look at a couple with the parchment interior, and I thought the combination of tan and black looked good. I also thought the interior was a great improvement over the 2009 MKZ in terms of design, ergonomics, and apparent materials quality.

    As for the exterior styling, I think the taillights are a vast improvement and are what they should have been from the beginning. While the grill will obviously be polarizing, I liked it, too, although I like the 2002 Continental concept grill better. But, the split wing grill is very distinctive.

    Shortly after our test drive I saw a red 2010 MKZ on the road and thought “that’s one sharp looking car”.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    I agree the old grill was too pedestrian but, I think the new grill is overdone. They got it right on the MKS. And yes, while the interior needs to be more elegant, my biggest beef is with that extraordinary amount of black. It seems to suck the life out of the cabin. The lines are better but, greatly reducing the dull black throughout the cabin would be a huge improvement. And it really does need more wood, especially on the console.
    My Z has been the most dependable, trouble free car I have ever owned and I truly wanted to get the MKZ this coming December/January. But, I honestly don't like it. I believe you are right when you say the MKZ will be an also ran until the next generation. I'm afraid that by then, the MKZ will be defined by the buying public as just that - an also ran. If that's the case the MKZ will continue to struggle with sales. It was important for Ford to nail it with this revision and they simply didn't do it. It's an improvement but, after the 06, 07, 08 and 09, the 10 should have been better.
    More and more, it seems as though the consensus on this board is that the 2010 MKZ is over priced. No reason to think that the buying public will think anything different.
    I know this is the MKZ board but, does anyone know how sales are with the MKS? I'm on I-95 and the Baltimore beltway everyday and I have seen only one.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    I know this is the MKZ board but, does anyone know how sales are with the MKS?

    Through April, YTD sales of the MKS totaled 5,775 and the MKZ was 6,706.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    One reason for the black dash is to avoid windshield glare. Not saying it's the only reason, but it's one reason. This was a huge issue with 07 Edges.
  • More and more, it seems as though the consensus on this board is that the 2010 MKZ is over priced. No reason to think that the buying public will think anything different.

    My wife saw the MKZ sitting next to the Milan and wondered about the price difference, too. In her mind, the styling differences and badge weren't worth the extra dollars. I believe akirby has said the Z offers more sound deadening, thicker side glass, maybe some doodads its stable mates don't, and pointed that out to her. We probably should have driven the Milan or Fusion back to back with the MKZ in order to judge the ride, quiet, etc. But, point is, you may be right about what the buying public thinks. Lincoln has a tough road to travel to turn perceptions around.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    I had the same issue with the Edge and MKX. I've owned a LS and an Aviator and generally prefer the Lincoln versions. But after looking at the MKX I concluded the only difference that mattered to us were the cooled seats and that wasn't worth the $6K price difference. I actually preferred the Edge dash over the MKX.

    Given the 2010 MKZ was just a mid cycle refresh, I think Ford did a heck of a lot more than should be expected. Who puts out a brand new car and puts in new interiors, new front and rear clips and 4 new drivetrains after only 3.5 years (not 4)? Nobody.

    When the new models arrive in 3 years or so I think you'll see unique sheetmetal all the way around (like the MKS) and a more cohesive design along with more amenities and a new drivetrain. By then Ford will be over the hump on the new products (Fiesta, Explorer, Focus) and will have more resources to spare.
  • theman123theman123 Posts: 170
    Well here's another one. Automotive Addicts test drove the 2010 MKZ and came away very impressed.

    Your Thoughts :shades:
    Automotive Addicts review of the 2010 Lincoln MKZ
  • It won't matter how good is the write-up. There are too many around here who will always see it as a tarted up Ford.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Because it is a Fusion with some interior changes, and different front and rear clips. The Fusion is a good car, but $42K is a bit steep for a loaded one.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    Waiting in the mailbox Friday was a package from L-M. It contained a simple brochure on the entire Lincoln line with an offer of $750 back if I purchased, specifically, the new MKZ. I believed rebates/incentives would be coming but, I didn't think just 4 weeks after intro. Doesn't look good.
    I went back to the L-M dealership to have another look, in case I could be persuaded when the big rebates start. I liked the interior even less the second time. There's more black than I first thought: almost the whole dash, the console, 1/3 of the door panels, the carpet, door pillars, lower interior door wells and piping. Wow, might as well make everything black. I wonder if those of you that say you prefer the new interior are, in fact, focusing on the new dash and lines and not the entire package. The new lines are an improvement but, I actually prefer the old interior overall. To me, it has a more elegant look and feel about it. Reducing all of that black would really help. Here's a somewhat funny story that I swear is true. I had just gotten out if the new MKZ when a salesmann came over. He asked how I liked it. I said too much black inside for me. He said, well that's the charcoal interior. If you got the camel interior it wouldn't be so dark. I said, it is the camel interior. No, he said, this has the charcoal. I said, you better check. He walked over to the car, looked in the window and still refused to admit it was the tan until he looked at the invoice. Finally, he said, you're right, it is the tan. Said the car has been on the lot for 2 weeks and the whole time he thought it had the charcoal interior. I felt vidicated.
    Anyway, Ford has made a grave error in pricing this car at over $34K. The price point puts it right in the middle of some serious heavyweight competitors at the same time the buying public essentially considers the MKZ nothing more than a loaded Fusion. Therefore, they either get a loaded Fusion and pocket about $12K or they buy elsewhere. Perception is everything. This is set up to be a sales disaster.
    Here's my suggestions to Ford:
    1. Lower the base to just under $30K. For now, this is where this car should be.
    2. Get rid of the interior black overload. This will give it a more rich, elegant look.
    3. Offer an interior upgrade option. More wood on dash & doors.
    There are other improvements needed but, for 2010, they are not doable. The things I listed can be done quite easily. I think Ford really has to do something quick. Mechanically, I think the MKZ is competitive but, I don't think it has the look and feel the buying public has in mind at the current price point.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,019
    I prefer black dashes and I've owned several with tan dashes over the years. I did think the older model tan dash used good materials and looked nice but the design did nothing for me at all. I would like to see more wood available on both the MKZ, MKX and MKS.

    I think you're overestimating the sales targets for this vehicle. Since Hermosillo can only produce 300,000 vehicles (including Fusion, Milan and MKZ and including exports to South and Latin America) and the Fusion and Milan sales are expected to be quite high I think Ford will be happy with lower volume and higher profits on each one.

    The point is you can't look at the MKZ as a stand alone vehicle due to production capacity limitations.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    I actually do agree on the top of the dash being black. It's just the copious amount of black used everywhere else. Although I don't like an all black interior, I think you can get away with it. The problem here is the attempt to integrate the over use of black with another color. It just doesn't work.
    A few minutes ago I was at a traffic light behind a new black Avalon and that reminded me of something else I thought peculiar when I was at the L-M dealership on Saturday. Since they dropped the navy blue on the new MKZ, my next choice was black. However, it's not black - it's black metallic with a gazillion gold flecks. From a distance it looks black but, up close, it kind of grays out. And depending on the angle, it can really look "different." Next to the MKZ was an SUV of some sort and, like the Avalon, it was a true black. Deep and glossy, what black should be. The sticker didn't indicate a special paint so, I'm assuming you can't get true black exterior paint in the MKZ. That's really weird.
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