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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ



  • I do not think they sell any MKZs or Milans in CA. I did not see new or previous MKZ on the road yet for a year since they introduced 2010 MKZ and only once Milan, while Fusions are everywhere and they are not rentals. They can surely upgrade interior so MKZ feels more like luxury car than version of Fusion. From exterior point of view they can hardly do anything meaningful. Sure they can change grill a little bit to make it look more organic but I think thats it. Regarding Milan - exterior looks different enough from Fusion so it is okay with me. What is wrong with Milan is that interior has exactly same mundane design as Fusion. Milan supposed to be more high style version of Fusion for urban dwellers and from interior point of view it is not. They also make grill smaller it is too big on Milan IMO.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I like the new Milan grill. And like it or not, this is not the time to make grills smaller, as the fashion is toward larger ones...even on tiny cars. And why not? In the 70s and 80s (and of course large grills were the rule long before that), we loved large grills. Wait awhile. It will change. Always does. :)

    The 2010 MKZ has been praised for the new interior. I have even seen reviewers who prefer it to the MKS interior. Anyway, there are more softer materials and smaller gaps than on the previous MKZ. I think the problem comes in where the MKZ drives like the Fusion...which isn't bad at all, but it should feel like a finer piece on the road to justify the bloated price. I have seen a couple 2010 Zs on the road, and I must say the new rear end (and grill) is much more distinctive than before. Still, why would anyone choose the MKZ over the Taurus at the same price point, except that (like me) they prefer a car that is less of a whale in size?

    Ford needs to keep scrambling. The new Hyundai Sonata and forthcoming Kia Optima are starting to be equipped like and look like near luxury cars of a couple seasons ago. And how is the MKZ better than the Buick Lacrosse (it is not), or the forthcoming Buick Regal (especially next year when the Regal gets a V6)? The new Chrysler 300 is almost here. Saab and Volvo both have new sedans coming out this year, and both companies are very, very hungry. It is all good for us consumers though.
  • Buick LaCross interior looks and feels more luxurious than MKZ. Even Taurus interior looks more upscale. Sonata ands Edge on photos at least look more luxurious than MKZ. And Of course Sonata will use a lot of cheap materials, but design, like gauges, steering wheel, dash, center armrest - all look as a upper scale car. MKZ interior also is not user friendly. Buttons are small and hollow. Buttons on steering wheel are not easy to use, turn signal stalk is cheep feeling and awkward. Even headlight switch is far away for driver to reach. Too much painted hollow black plastic on center console.
  • 2010 Lincoln MKZ-After driving thruway speeds for approx 6 hours,evaporator freezes up.Give it 30 min to thaw and it's back to normal til next 6 hour hiway run.Anyone had this prob. My dealer is talking to Ford engineering for solutions.
  • texasestexases Posts: 7,896
    I've had it on a different vehicle, turned out to be a plugged water drain. Worth a check.
  • mkzlovermkzlover Posts: 1
    I had this problem 8 months ago. It's an easy fix. All the dealer needs to do is to put in new codes into the computer, and the problem is solved.
  • I've had my 2010 MKZ for over 6 months now and my only complaint are the original equipment tires (Michelin MKV4 50R17). They seem to have very little grip on dry pavement, and on wet pavement I'm sliding all over the place. I wonder if anyone else has had the same experience and what all-season tires would be best as a replacement. For the first time in my life I plan on getting snow tires for later in the year ... worried now that the spring/summer grip has been so bad.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    That's not normal. Check the tire pressure.
  • can50turtlecan50turtle Posts: 11
    edited August 2010
    Thanks for the idea ... but I checked again, and the tire pressure is fine. I've since went to the Tire Rack site and these OEM tires are rated pretty low by customers. Maybe I'll consider a tire that gets a better rating on their site.

    Another potential issue ... the way the pavement is sloped on the exit from my job's parking lot, and the way the end of my driveway is curbed on my street, I am scraping the underside of my front end "often". I'm now getting used to coming to a complete stop at these two locations, then moving very slowly in/out so that the underside doesn't scrape the ground. But, entering/exiting with any momentum causes a hit to the ground. Do you think that this car can handle that? Or do you think I should get some kind of skid plate or something installed underneath?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    Something that isn't obvious about those MXV4 tires - they come in at least 4 different versions. Different load ratings, different tire compounds by different vehicle mfrs - they all spec the tire differently even though it has the same name. That's why it shows up multiple times in the Tirerack listing. Use the "see tires for my vehicle" to see the ones specifically for the Fusion. Of course the ratings don't differentiate. I do know someone who does tire testing and the ones that come OEM on the Accord are much worse than the ones that Ford uses.

    Other Fusion owners (including me) haven't noticed this problem. Did you have the tires checked? You may have a bad one.
  • wilcoxwilcox Posts: 583
    edited August 2010
    FWIW, we had a set of Michelin MXM4's as orig. equip. on our '06 Accord 3.0 V6. They weren't nothing to brag about. After 4 years and 25K miles we replaced them. Now have Continential Extreem Contacts and they make the car ride and handle much better, we like them.

    I'm torn between buying a '010 MKZ at current sale prices...or waiting for the '011 Hybrid to come out. Currently we have a Mariner Hybrid and I like it alot. Enough to consider replacing the Accord with a Hybrid. HYBRIDS? Prius, Crapery, Civic, Fusion, Milan (sad news), or the MKZ HYBRID?? They'r all tempting. I guess I want a CVT because it is satisfying transmission for wondering what gear you're in, ya know? Fun for older people IMO.

    I guess I need to find (if possible) a upscale Fusion (reg. or hybrid) to drive and then test the MKZ derivatives. But I'm sort of afraid of a 1st year edition of any new model...maybe prius, civic, or camry hybrids would be better choice.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    First year edition? First of all, that is not a problem anymore with almost any manufacturer, save some third world countries. Secondly, the MKZ Hybrid has been out for years under the name of Fusion/Milan. Nothing at all is different about this drivetrain. Buy it if you want a well-equipped hybrid.
  • Stock tires normally suck on most of cars. And Michelin is not particularly a good brand either. I would worry about winter too. For winter it is better to buy winter tires and then you are free to buy really good summer tires. I replaced mines after they worn out with Yoko Avid. they are unidirectional, inexpensive and very good at cornering and wet weather. But I live in CA so I did not try on the snow.
  • Hi wilcox, what are sale prices for 2010 MKZ? Does it justify it over TSX or A4?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    Michelin is not particularly a good brand either.

    You must be joking. Michelin makes great tires. They're expensive and they're certainly not perfect but for all around performance they're very hard to beat.

    As I pointed out - the MXV4 tires on the Accord and the ones on the Fusions are TOTALLY different tires.
  • wilcoxwilcox Posts: 583
    I DO NOT :( HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA. Sorry, savetheland..
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    I can't stand Michelin tires. They ride hard, are noisy and are close to useless in wet/snowy conditions. My Maxima came with Michelins and I junked them as soon as I could. My Zephyr also came with Michelins and I dumped them as quickly as I could. The Bridgestone Serenity, in my opinion is a much better tire in every way and it's cheaper. Other than Consumer Reports (what a joke), I don't know of any publication that highly rates Michelin. Check the customer online reviews. They are pretty much rated average at best and receive poor marks for value. I know dozens of people that bought Michelins because of crap like Consumers Reports only to be very disappointed and replaced them with another brand when it was time for new tires. We are all familiar with brand names that are overated. Michelin is one of them.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I respectfully don't agree. All the Michelins I have owned have been excellent tires.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    They ride hard, are noisy and are close to useless in wet/snowy conditions.

    I had a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on my Lincoln LS. They were the quietest, best riding tire I've ever had on any vehicle and they also stopped on a dime. Same for the Pilot LTX on my Edge.

    You can complain about the cost but not performance. Go look at test results and user surveys. They agree with us. You either had a bad tire, wrong pressure or some other problem.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    Let's agree to disagree. Anyway, it keeps the board lively.
    A more important topic - does anyone have sales figures for 2010 Lincoln? A few weeks back when Ford announced pulling the plug on Mercury, I read in the USA today that through June, Mercury had only sold 82,000 units. And I'm quoting here, "But Mercury is still outselling the struggling Lincoln brand." OMG! How bad is it? Lincoln is a good car but, apparently, the public is not interested. Can Ford renew interest in the Lincoln nameplate? The 2010 MKZ came out in June or July of 09, I've seen 3. The MKS has been out longer, I've seen 5. That ain't good!
    Look, I love my Zephyr but, there is no denying that Ford has a mountain to climb with Lincoln. I really have my doubts that the public will ever consider Lincoln a competitor to Lexus, Infiniti, BMW or even Cadillac. Maybe Ford should target the Buicks of the world. I think Lincoln is more suited to that role.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    I agree that nobody else agrees with you about Michelins. As for Lincoln - it's about where Ford wants Lincoln to be in 4 years, not where they are now. Ford has spent the last 3 years fixing Ford and basically ignoring Lincoln and Mercury. Now that Mercury is out of the way they can do a full court press on reviving Lincoln. Based on what they were able to do with Ford I think they'll do quite well with Lincoln and every new Lincoln will raise the bar a little higher. No reason they can't compete with Lexus, Cadillac, Audi, etc.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    It is not that easy, Allen. Ford knows more or less what the Ford brand is about, and has learned some hard lessons. The Five Hundred's styling was a really awful idea, and transforming it into the 08 Taurus just wasted more limited funds. Thankfully, they got right to work on the 2010 Taurus. They also screwed up with the Flex, in that they took the Fairlane concept that in production might have become a cult car, and stretched it into an ungainly looking thing. Never mind these recent misses...the Taurus, F150, Mustang, Fiesta, Fusion, and 2012 Focus will carry the day.

    But Ford doesn't know what Lincoln should be, and that is obvious from the MKS (they could have styled it any way they wanted, but for some unfathomable reason, they chose what they did). How difficult would it have been to put the MKS on the Flex wheelbase, or at least add a couple inches to the Taurus wheelbase? (Years ago, Ford always lengthened the big Mercury wheelbase off the Ford architecture.) Why didn't it occur to anyone that pretty cars tend to sell better?

    The MKT was a clean sheet design that went from provocative concept to a too-long station wagon look that doesn't fly in the marketplace...see what Cadillac did with the SRX to fix that. The MKX, which for 2011 now looks much better, is still is clearly a customized Edge.

    Four years from now, most lux brands will be far better than they are now, so somehow Lincoln not only has to catch up to where the best are now, but but somehow leap to the vast improvements the best will have four years from now, and then somehow leapfrog that. That is a really tall order for any company, and especially so for one that has no clear idea what desirable Lincoln DNA ought to be.

    That Lincoln sales are worse than Mercury sales, even after Mercury has been euthanized cannot be ignored. Raising the bar a little higher with each one will simply keep Lincoln's status as not even as good as an also-ran in place. Fortunately, Ford does not need Lincoln any more than Honda needs Acura (maybe not the best example, because Acura is also doing better than Lincoln).

    If Lincoln could first out-Buick the new Buick, that would really be a start and a base from which to build an even better brand. But right now the Buick Regal and Lacrosse and Enclave offer more than the MKZ and MKX for less money. That has to stop. I don't care if the MKS is "worth it." Cut the price, and get some buzz going about what a great value it is. Don't forget, Buick has plans for a Park Avenue model, which will have no problem outselling MKS, unless Lincoln starts offering a more desirable car for the same or less money real soon.

    I don't think having Mercury "out of the way" is going to allow a "full court press" on Lincoln. In the end, Mercury wasn't bleeding all that many company resources, especially given the sales Mercury had without even trying. What is needed is a Mulally personality for Lincoln (he has his hands full maintaining the Ford brand's success, and no one these days can take their eyes off the ball for a second).

    Heads should be rolling at Lincoln, if they haven't already. But maybe Lincoln's day is done. Lots of storied brands have died, and will continue to do so. There are always others jockeying to take their place. Who would have ever thought five years ago that Hyundai would bring a car like the Equus here? They may not succeed of course, but unlike the wonderful but unloved VW Phaeton, it will start at closer to $50K than $80K, and that could make all the difference.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    Getting rid of Mercury was also a way to accelerate the fixing of the bloated dealer network. But the big advantage isn't in cost savings or resource savings - those are there but they're not huge. The big advantage is they no longer have to neuter Fords in order to maintain a mid level brand. Look at Chevy - they won't get any really great cars because GM doesn't want Chevy competing with Buick and they don't want Buick competing with Cadillac - although that won't stop them from coming out with 4 clones of the same vehicle.

    The Flex and MKT weren't as successful as Ford would have liked, so now they're refreshing them along with the MKS. This will be the real test of whether Ford knows what they're doing or not.

    I don't understand why you continue to defend GM and question Ford. Cadillac has had more failures than successes (XLR, previous SRX, STS, DTS). The only advantage they have right now is a more modern large SUV and a good RWD sedan platform. At least Lincoln has a large crossover in the MKT - where is Caddy's?
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    Great post. But first, to address Kirby's comment about me being the only one that doesn't like Michelin. Apparently, he didn't read the posts by Wilcox and savetheland. Those posts got us started on Michelin. So, even on this board I am not the only one that dislikes Michelin. DUH!
    Anyway gregg, your post is right on. I said some time ago that Ford lost it's way with Lincoln. You can't essentially ignore the Lincoln brand for 2 decades, almost be completely run out of the market, then crank out a couple of new models (that appeal to very few) and believe you are back in the conversation. Not to pick on Kirby (although I need to admonish him from time to time about getting his facts straight, I rather enjoy going back & forth with him and he does make some valuable contributions), he seems to be fixated on what Lincoln is going to be in 3, 4 or 5 yrs. The new kid on the block (MKZ) has been out since 06 and it's sales are abysmal as are the sales of MKS and every other Lincoln. If this continues, Lincoln won't be around in 3 yrs. Ford has to do something with Lincoln now. They have to redo the styling, they need to do serious upgrades to the interiors. Get rid of all of that black plastic, black vinyl and black carpet. That's not what people expect in a luxury brand. To compete in this market segment Lincoln needs to look like a Luxury car, feel like a luxury car and act like a luxury car. For some time now, it hasn't done any of those things.
    I guess Lincoln may be trying but, the problem is they don't have the people in place that truly know what a luxury brand is supposed to be or what people want. I agree, there should be a complete house cleaning concerning the Lincoln brand. Otherwise, 4 yrs from now (if Lincoln is still around) we will be having the same conversation.
    I said in a previous post that Ford needs to cut the price of Lincolns and I was chastised by a few here. People simply aren't buying Lincolns and you have to start getting them on the road so they can be seen and at least begin to be talked about. You can't charge Lexus prices when the buying public doesn't even put Lincoln in the same conversation. Cut the price, sell some product, get your product noticed and then bring in some people to design a build a true Lexus/Cadillac/Infiniti competitor. Otherwise, just market Lincoln for what it has become - Ford's version of the Buick.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    If you go check the tire tests and user reviews on (a much bigger sample size than this forum) you'll see that Michelins get excellent marks in almost all categories. Some (like the MXV4 on the Accord which is not the same tire as the one on the Fusion) aren't great but by and large they're great tires. If you disagree then you're certainly in a small minority.

    As for Lincoln - right now Ford has chosen to sell as many vehicles as they can without cutting prices. They could sell more by cutting the price but that also cheapens the brand even more than it already is. Their plan seems to be to establish a standard, then build the new vehicles to the same price point with better design, materials and features.

    What I find amusing is that everyone who complains about Lincoln totally ignores the fact that Ford has not spent much money on Lincoln up until now. They said all along they were fixing Ford first, then Lincoln. They're just starting. The point is we haven't seen what Ford wants Lincoln to be yet, so is it asking too much to wait and see?

    As for Lincoln being on borrowed time - no way. Ford made $5B the first half with the current Lincoln lineup and they're committed to a multi-year plan to turn the brand around. If they aren't making money in 4 years then maybe they'll consider closing the brand but not now.

    It's like watching a pre-season football game with 2nd and 3rd string players and proclaiming the team will such all season.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I get your point, Allen, but not sure you get mine. Ford would likely have made even more $$ if it hadn't diverted any of their limited resources into shoring up a damaged brand. If Ford didn't sell any Lincolns, they would not be any worse for the wear (other than of course the not inconsiderable costs of winding the brand down).

    In the long run, it may turn out that Ford would have done better financially to make Mercury into a Buick competitor than to try to make the ruined Lincoln brand into a world class marque. Of course it is not asking too much to wait and see...after all, it is the only thing we can do. Waiting four years to close the brand down may give it (and us) a glimmer of hope. I will be the first to cheer when Lincoln actually has a model that gains both critical acclaim and sales.

    But it should be very clear to Ford by now that they cannot limp this brand along a few more years until such time as they can give it a full court press. The world is moving too fast, development is relentless, competition is more fierce than ever, and brand loyalty is not the big thing it used to be. There will be no time in which Ford can rest from their full court press to rebuild and sustain the gains of the Ford brand. Lincoln cannot survive with any less attention. Lincoln has fewer models than Ford, and that is the only reason Ford can invest less in Lincoln than the Ford brand. Putting out forgettable things like the MKS, MKZ, and MKT has proven worse than useless. Lincoln sales are lower than ever.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    We all know you can't sell a $75K Ford car. VW tried and failed miserably. That's why they need Lincoln just like GM needs Cadillac and Toyota needs Lexus. You need a separate brand to compete in the luxury market.

    Ford's plan all along was to take all of their vehicles upmarket including the Lincoln brand. Why? Because there is a lot of money to be made - much more than just with the Ford brand alone. And they're willing to invest the money - just like they announced when they announced they were killing Mercury. Did you miss that announcement or do you just think they're lying about giving Lincoln unique products with more exclusive luxury features?

    Obviously it remains to be seen how well they execute but I just don't understand how anybody can question their commitment at this point given that they've done everything they said they would do over the last 3 years - and done it well. I think if nothing else they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Excuse me, Allen, but that is where we differ. Ford has learned and applied good lessons for the Ford brand and it is paying off...for the Ford brand.

    I don't think anyone is lying. I also don't think anyone who is paying attention missed the announcements. I just don't see where anyone at Ford has any good idea of how to make Lincoln a player. The MKT is proof of the pudding. This weird station wagon thing was their response when they finally had all the reins. They could have made it unique and interesting by producing the concept. Instead, they installed a station wagon look on a concept that had been anything but.

    Luxury features these days have filtered down to most non-economy cars (and some of those as well). These days, lots of Fords sell for $40K plus. They have the latest toys. Lincoln offers nothing special by offering luxury features. Those features will be on Fords the very next year (or they should be). And we already have the strange situation where the Ford model actually offers more than the Lincoln. Lincoln has to either go away or offer greater value for the money. They have not figured this out yet. Lexus got a foothold in the world by doing the same thing as luxury brands for less. After sales soared, they hiked prices. A lot. And it worked. Hyundai has the same plan.

    Meanwhile, Lincoln prices its models according to what competitors are getting for the similar stuff. In a fair world, people would just buy Lincoln on preference, and we could all stop the debate. But Ford seems to forget...Lincoln is a damaged brand and almost no one would give a s**t if it went away. There was more support for Pontiac, and we all know that brand was well past toast. Load up the equipment, but cut the price, make it the new Lexus value (going back two decades), and Lincoln could rule. Acting as if Lincoln has any purchase in the present environment is just stupid.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    Here we go again. You say they can't do it and I'm saying they haven't been trying yet. Why do you think the Taurus gets more equipment than the MKS? Because they haven't taken the MKS where they want it to go yet.

    Could they sell a lot of vehicles if they cut prices? You bet. And what do you think that will do to resale values and how much harder will it be to increase prices later?

    You prefer the GM strategy of make as many cars as you can and give them away if necessary. Ford prefers profit over market share. I guess we'll see who's right in 2-3 years. Until then we'll just agree to disagree. Again.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    I chose my Zephyr over the Lexus ES for because I could get it w/o a moonroof (I'm 6'3"), it ran on regular gas and it offered great value. It's no longer the value it was and Lexus is retuning their product line to run on regular (the 2011 ES drops 4-6 HP but, recommends regular fuel). The gas thing was one advantage the MKZ had over it's competition but, now that is gone (CTS already uses regular, not sure who else but, soon they all will). This surely will not help Lincoln sales.
    I too think it was a mistake to dump Mercury. The foundation, name recognition, loyalty, etc were in place. All Ford needed to do was tweak the styling, move the current Lincoln interiors to the Mercury (where they're more appropriate) and pump 10-15 HP into the engines to further separate Mercury from Ford and viola - a Buick killer!
    Anyone who thinks Ford knows what to do with the Lincoln brand is in denial. Just go to the Lincoln website. They're already offering a $1000 cash back on the 2011 MKZ. What sense does this make? The car basically hasn't hit the showroom and it's already being discounted. Obviously, Ford realizes the car is overpriced. So, just reduce the base price and forget the rebate nonsense. A rebate on a 2011 in August of 2010? I've never heard of such marketing.
    I admire kirby's passion and loyalty to the Lincoln nameplate but, I don't think Ford has earned them. Ford hasn't shown much over the past 20 yrs that tells me they are truly serious about Lincoln. And please don't mention sales duds like the MKZ and MKS or that hideous MKT. Ford began to ignore Lincoln long before it ran into financial difficulty and it doesn't have qualified people in place now so, why should anyone believe Ford is REALLY ready to do some good things with Lincoln? Lincoln is in a different market segment than Ford. They might be trying to fix Lincoln with the same people that fixed Ford. I don't think that translates.
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