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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • You confirm that I made the right decision Friday by putting a deposit down on '07 A6 3.2. I had already made a decision to lease the M35X and was a day away from ordering it when I heard about the owner loyalty. I just happened to drive a friend out to NJ to pick up his A8 and his dealer told me or I'd be waiting for my M now. I'm excited about it but wish Audi had more power and M nav system. Everything is a compromise!
    BTW ordered the 18" wheels with all seasons. Are they UHP?
    I enjoy your posts and find them most informative.
    Keep it up!
  • Thanks for the information. If my local guy can't read, I'll try a different dealer. Good luck and enjoy your new Audi.
  • The tires are Grand Touring HP.

    You will be underwhelmed by them.

    I replaced mine with UHP Pirelli PZero Nero M+S and inflated the front to 39 the rear to 36.

    Nice upgrade.
  • acuratacurat SoCalPosts: 75
    Before you cut a fat check for a Lexus, I'd recommend you try the Acura RL. Smooth and serene yet not floaty, with a seriously powerful V6. Super-handling all wheel drive is incredibly secure; this car goes where you point it. Real-time NavTraffic is a huge advantage in any major metro area. The interior is beautiful and well-designed, the cabin is quiet, the sound system rocks. Acura has done an incredible integration of the technology. Best of all, you won't see yourself coming and going.

    If you are focused on bang for the buck, no one can touch this car. There are no options. None. Every feature is standard--an exemplar for the nickel-and-diming competition. (Are you listening, Toyota and BMW?)

    Check out the review at for more.
  • Thanks, I will look at the Acura. My wife used to have a TL and loved it. So far I feel that the Volvo S80 has the closest feel to my Audi A6. Actually, I was impressed with the Volvo feel. Feels much "tighter" than older models used to.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    If you are focused on bang for the buck, no one can touch this car. There are no options. None.

    Well, except for the Technology package. Thats an option. And it would be nice if there were some options, say a seat upgrade, for example. An '05 or '06 for $32-35K is a pretty good deal. As a new car... eh. I'd rather have the GS.
  • I don't understand why mediocre OEM tires like the Goodyear RS=4's or the Michelin MXM4's are so expensive. I was looking to replace the RS-4's that come with the M with Bridgestone Potenza 960's which seen to be rated #1 in everything according to Tire Rack for less money than the others. I wonder if tire dealers will swap when the tires are brand new?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I don't understand why mediocre OEM tires like the Goodyear RS=4's or the Michelin MXM4's are so expensive.

    Very good question. The MXM4s aren't really any cheaper than either the Pilot Exalto or Pilot Sport M+S, which are both way better tires.
  • tamparltamparl Posts: 42
    I generally am a fan of Michelins. I have done very well with wear and durability of them. In some applications, I have found them louder on some road surfaces, as with my 06 RL. I have considered replacing them (stock rims), but there are so few options unless I change the rims (which I do not expect to do). I think the MXM4s are OK, but I suspect there is a quieter tire out there, if I can find them in the RLs stock size. My TL has the MXM4s also, but they lower profile, and still better than the BS EL42 Turanzas I have experienced on some loaner TLs. Yet I find the RL quieter than most of the competitors I drove (subject to my local road conditions...crap). And still the RL felt responsive more than some of the cushier rides. For me it was the right balance.

    I think if you can get an new RL under 45K it is an amazing vehicle. Head north of 45K and I think there are serious alternatives which appeal to us each differently. We all have attributes that appeal to us in different combinations...price, ride, performace, engine, drivetrain, features, reputation, etc, etc. It can be tiresome, especially with the availability of information and opinions we have today. It can be helpful, but it can also be distracting us from what pleases us personally. Listen to opinions in your decision process, but decide based on what appeals to YOU.

    I enjoy the process, and cannot get near shiny metal things without drooling. A whiff of the new car smell and my knees buckle. BUT, always it comes down to MY dollar and deciding upon what MY dollar can get for what appeals to ME.

    Somewhere I saw a thread about what people name their cars... I simply replied "MINE"! :P

    I respect all the rides mentioned throughout this thread. i respect what each has proclaimed as best (for them), but each time I look at, drive one or campare to what I got in my RL, I know I made the right choice. :)
  • Thanks J--

    My dealer "found" the bulletin for the A6 owner loyalty program and said the .00027 MF would be no problem. So, applied the $2500 OL as cap reduction, added Audi Care to up the residual,(which was new information to my salesman) ...paid the tax and first month and I get my new A6 tomorrow. Oh, and they "tossed in" winter mats.

    It probably would not have happened without your posting the program information. Again, my thanks for sharing the information. I hope I can return, or pass on the favor in the future.

  • All of the Audis my wife and I have had since that first 1978 Audi 5000 in 1977 have been purchased from the same dealer. Most of them, by far, from the same salesman (who is not in management at the dealership.)

    The dealership, owned by ONE GUY, was sold to a billion dollar company several years ago. The dealership built a new 7 million dollar dealership. They sell about 600 new Audis per year -- but they are growing, apparently, with their new location and super high glitz facility.

    Good for them, good for the customers -- or so I thought.

    For the first 25 or 26 Audis we always dealt directly with the owner, who was always there.

    Came to the current two car purchases we made in March and June of 2005 and boy oh boy things sure had changed.

    I ended up kissing Audi good-bye and placed an order for an Infiniti M35X. My wife after 3 TT's in a row and a desire to buy a new A4 3.2, also gave up and ordered a new $47K BMW X3 that was "hundreds" cheaper per month on a lease for 36 month than a $44K A4.

    The Infiniti deal for me was nearly $200 less per month than the "similar" A6 3.2.

    I so wanted the Audi, but, as I have said, these cars are more alike than they are different and the mo pay and "styling" are key differentiators. I guess if I thought the Infiniti was butt ugly or something like that I couldn't have made the decision I initially made.

    What the heck, I had purchased so many cars from ONE GUY, I wrote him a "thanks for the memories" letter, cc'd the sales manager (no longer the owner, who is never there, apparently) and also cc'd the Vice president of Audi of America.

    Note: when you order an Infiniti it takes about 120 days -- orders are only placed one time per month (in 2005 at least) and the lead time is a minimum of 90+ days after that.

    I sent the letters I mentioned.

    I figured I would be happy with the Infiniti, I had driven the car several times and found it to be quite close to the feel I had enjoyed from Audi and had felt when I tested BMW's. About 75 days passed and then, one day, I received a phone call from the sales rep, who said, "come home Shane, come home."

    The net of it was there were "loyalty deals, special cents off coupons and lower money factors and even the cancelling of a couple of months of a lease on my not yet at term 2003 allroad, the negating of a sec dep and free bottled water and car washes for life."

    All I had to do was "unhook" the M35X deal -- the Infiniti dealers had $1500 of my money.

    A phone call to the Infiniti dealer was soooo easy. He was looking for inbound inventory. My car, apparently on a boat, was able to be sold either to me or to someone else despite my somewhat unorthodox color scheme, silver with bourbon leather and journey and technology package with ground effects and a wing on the butt.

    My wife said the deal Audi coughed up was a ONCE in a lifetime deal for they literally dropped the price on a 36 mo lease $200 per month and let me out of my lease on the allroad without penalty.

    I hope she is wrong.

    I also somewhat hate the fact that I had to say good-bye to get the deal. Of course, as they say, "if you are willing to walk and they know it, you will get the best deal du jour."

    After years of dealing directly with the owner, I had come to enjoy a no negotiation approach and a sense that I always got the best deal in exchange for my repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat patronage.

    Hey, now I'm dealing with a billion dollar dealership group. I met the owner once, I am confident he knows me not and in fact he's never there, so it's really a moot point anyway.

    Today, I am mostly convinced these cars ARE NOT unique (within their class). The Lexus is at one, Infiniti and perhaps Cadillac are in the middle and the Germans are at the other end of a continuum of plush/poshness and sportiness. They are all great apples, so to speak, but they are different kind of apples -- but apples nevertheless.

    Some like red deeeeelish, some granny smith and some gala.

    The car companies must know this too, for there certainly can be a great deal of movement with respect to the "rental" agreements offered by the various financing arms. Audi Financial, apparently, made this happen as did BMW financial for my wife with her new Bimmer.

    Fear not -- and also don't assume the dealer knows everything or is somehow attempting to be a crook. While they certainly might be, it is more likely that these multi multi million dollar (or billion dollar, in my case) auto dealerships you are dealing with are being run by professional "managers."

    Rarely, at least in these parts, will you deal with someone in an equity position. The guy who didn't know about the "deal" quite possibly didn't know about the deal -- why? It really makes little difference to him/her.

    My long term sales rep says he makes about the same amount on an A3 as he does on an A8 -- his motivation therefore is, well -- you figure it out. :surprise:
  • N

    I'm delighted that I was of help to you. The very best of luck with the new car. Please advise how you like it.
    With all the luxury AWD cars available this was the toughest auto decision I ever had. Initially, I was sure I'd get my 3rd Audi until I heard the monthly price. Then I was convinced I'd get the M35X until I drove the GS350 which is fast but numb. Was finally about to lease the M on Friday when I heard about the owner loyalty on Thursday. Everything is timing! My current lease doesn't end until March so I'll be counting the days until I get mine although I love my 2.7T and am not in a hurry to say goodbye yet. Enjoy the new car! :)
  • Hi,

    I recently bought a 2006 A6. Everything about this car is just the way I would have imagined except the brakes. When applying the parking brakes I can hear a distinct hum from the rear end of the car. I have driven a couple of loaners and they dint sound anything when applying the parking brake. The service agent says this is normal for the A6's. Secondly when I apply brakes, the car smoothly decelerates and then stops abruptly(I want to say with a jerk). Again the dealer says this is what happens with the brake assist feature when it chips in to anticipate any corrective braking that might be required.

    Am I being paranoid or is the Audi dealer just giving me some stock answers to problems they cant fix?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I would assume on 08' CTS content alone the next CTS-V would be a true LPS wouldn't it ????? It should be right at the top in performance because the next "V" or as some call it Super-V is getting the new supercharged Corvette SS engine with 600 horses. 0-60 in a "blink of a eye" :blush:

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "It's normal for them to do that" is the easiest "shut up and go away" answer for a dealer to give about pretty much any problem. The "it's the brake assist" answer is particularly troubling because that's just a flat out lie. Brake assist is only supposed to activate in panic situations if the driver hasn't hit the pedal hard enough for maximum braking. All of my cars have had BA for the last several years, and none of them act like that. Take it to another dealer.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    No, the next CTS-V will not be a LPS. Neither will the M3, RS4, C63, IS-F, or S60R. It doesn't matter how big the engine gets or how fast it goes. The Ariel Atom will outrun pretty much any car including a 600hp CTS to 60. That doesn't make it a LPS. Cadillac's LPS continues to be the STS.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Remember that the parking brake of the new A6 is an electronic unit. Not many other manufacturers use that type of brake. The hum you're hearing is the motor activating the brake.

    With the "jerky" braking, it's probably either the Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD) or the transmission downshifting into first gear. It's probably the downshift. I believe I've read from other A6 owners that their cars sometimes jerk when downshifting. Pay attention to the brake pedal the next time you're coming to a stop. If you feel a slight pulse up on the pedal, it's the EBD kicking in. What that does is send a little more braking force to the rear brakes. It only kicks in for panic stops and below a certain speed. For nearly all cars (except BMWs) 85+% of the braking is done by the front brakes. This is why the front brake systems are larger than the rear and also why the front brakes have more brake dust and wear out sooner than the rears.
  • upuautupuaut Posts: 14
    For nearly all cars (except BMWs) 85+% of the braking is done by the front brakes.

    Why not BMW's, are they exempt from the rules of physics?
  • The HUM you hear is, IME, normal. It is an electronic motor activating the parking brake. I hear it, it is faint and it lets me know the brake is applied.

    The other jerking you feel is NOT normal and is no way associated with Brake Assist.

    The answer is lazy.

    The culprit COULD be the transmission especially if you are in S mode which forces a HARD shift to first gear.

    There are adjustments and parts that can be made and replaced if this is a true out of spec condition, which I think it sounds like.

    Don't take the lazy answer.

    My brakes are great.
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    Given the weight transfer, I can't understand why most of the braking wouldn't be done by the front wheels in all cars (except maybe a huge SUV with gold bullion in the wayback). However, my experience with a 2002 Passat is that the rear brakes wear out at about twice the rate of the front. It's a mystery.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,298
    For nearly all cars (except BMWs) 85+% of the braking is done by the front brakes.

    Why not BMW's, are they exempt from the rules of physics?

    It could have to do with "anti-dive" suspension geometry. My car has it, and BMW's may also. If the rear of the car doesn't lift & transfer a huge proportion of the downward force (weight) of the car to the front wheels during braking, the rears take a more nearly equal fraction. When I hit my brakes really hard, the car just squats down, applying plenty of weight to the rear.

    Look around -- many cars that have ventilated front discs (most/all in this board) may or may not have ventilated rears. Cars with a sufficiently sophisticated suspension will have 4 ventilated discs. For all I know, all these do, but I doubt it. The Germans almost certainly do, given that they're designed to run at 100 mph or so continuously. The Asians will be efficient -- if they don't need ventilated rears, they won't fit them.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    What category does it fit in ???

  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    I'm a bit late to the game, but such is my life. :)

    Having driven the servotronic on a VW/Audi vehicle and Active Steering from BMW, I can say I prefer the Active Steering.

    The VW/Audi setup is very nice, but in MY case, I just don't feel the road very well. It responds immediately and has a good feel/connection to the wheels at all speeds and it IS effortless, but transmitting the feel back to the driver just isn't there FOR ME.

    The Active Steering lets the road feel through to me. Maybe it is the tire choice, but the A/S feels right. The ratio change has never been an issue and it responds just as fast or faster than the Servo in the VW/Audis.

    I'm wondering if VW/Audi's audience is more for L and S vs the P. I wouldn't go so far to say it has a Lexus like ride to it, but it is defintely more 'posh' than the A/S equipped BMW's. The BMW's seem to focus on the P and S vs the L.

    I'd take either one in a heartbeat as they are better (again, TO ME) than a large percentage of the cars out there today.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 91,994
    BMW also has Servotronic steering... completely separate from the Active Steering (which may incorporate Servo, I don't know).

    It is a $250 option on the X3...


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    Understood. I'm referring to specifically the Active Steering though.

    I really like the feel on the A/S setup, at any speed.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Entry lux\performance, just like the last one.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Why not BMW's, are they exempt from the rules of physics?

    They aren't exempt. Cdnpinhead said it correctly. Ever notice how BMWs just squat when the brakes are applied whereas almost all other cars want to plant their noses in the asphalt? BMWs have 50/50 or near 50/50 weight distribution along with the anti-dive suspension setup that allows them to use equal brake proportioning front to rear. Most other cars whether they be FWD, AWD, or RWD have most of their weight on the nose which makes the nosedive even more pronounced which requires more braking force in the front since that's where most of the traction has been shifted during braking.

    I assure you, the laws of physics are in full effect on BMWs as well. They just do a better job of working with them and not against them.
  • aflcaflc Posts: 8
    So, yesterday I decided to send a letter to Audi about their marketing tactics. (We all know they lack any structured marketing department at all.)

    And what do I see as soon as I send it out. Their mea culpa... and a new plan to get the word out, finally...
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,298
    Just as I suspected.

    My Lincoln LS gets less than zero respect from the masses, but the suspension was very well thought out. Selling (or leasing) the damn thing to the blue-haired masses turned out to be a losing proposition, particularly when Ford was in the process of self-destruction (helped along by the Exploder tires).

    Thanks for verifying what I thought was true. This sort of thing costs money, which is part of why BMW is generally more expensive than Infiniti (& others). Whether anyone appreciates it, or is willing to pay for it is an entirely different question.

  • bargamonbargamon Posts: 302
    Hey mark,

    Allroad is gone a few months now and Im about to take delivery in a few weeks down in Spartenburg a 530i I ordered with MT, comfort seats, premium, etc. Monaco blue with Auburn interior!

    MSRP is 55k and with nothing but first payment and some BS fees my 36mo with 15k miles is only $630 per mo. with Taxes.

    I never even test drove it. Ok, I drove a friends a few months back. My Audi dealer changed owners and have really become a joke. I never even gave them a chance as they never even made any effort to keep me. No incentives, no invitations, no call from dealer, no effort at all. They treated me not like an existing customer. I really did not care as the one prerequisite must be made for me. That is I don't want to feel stupid. And paying over $100 more per month for an Audi that Stickers for 7 grand less with putting $2500 down really does not make me feel any better about the deal. The other thing is I gotta like the car.

    The Audi A6 is a great car and very special. As is the 530i BMW. The lack of MT was huge, but I could have overcome this with the right deal.

    I had a great Audi experience and hope to get back into one some day. The Q7 deal was tempting but its just not the right vehicle for me. The X3 was very tempting as well and a hell of a deal. I really would like to put my wife in one in a few years when our Minivan days are over.

    Mark, I have enjoyed your posts over the years and Im sure I'll come across you some other time.
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