Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Sandman6472

Have watched Motorweek for years now, since 1981 when they first came on. An amazing show really. It's on our PBS station on Saturday afternoons at 2:30 and try to watch it if I can. Have to go to Best Buy later as my iPhone doesn't want to get out of dark mode. Tech tried on the telephone Thursday night but had no success. It's an XR but no longer under Apple Care since mid December. Not ready to replace it yet as I got it last year at the end of February. Bought it from a guy on OfferUp who had a few new XR's and got it for a decent price to. It's unlocked because I'm using it on the AT&T network but a friend put in his T-Mobile sim card and it also worked.
Gotta a question though. My wife has the same XR but she bought hers at Target. Mine has a sim card, a nano one, while hers has no sim card. How can it work with no sim card and why does mine need one? Curious as to why really?
Waiting till the 2020 iPhones come out to see the big changes. Think all the new ones will use the USB-C cords going forward as they seem to be the new standard in charging. y 2019 MacBook Air has the USB-C cord, no more lightning one so figure Apple is slowly switching over. Crazy thing is we have a lot of the lightning cords so they'll all be obsolete within a certain number of years I'd imagine.

Sandman6472

Drove all over yesterday but spent 90% of our time north of Broward County. Started in Hollywood and then went to Ft. Pierce. Then down to West Palm and back to Jupiter. Back up to Pt. St. Lucie and down to Jupiter again. Finished in Pompano Beach, near 99, our home base. Was an 11 and a half hour day so was tired when I got home. Slept in this morning as I'm working tomorrow again. So was a good thing that we were off on Thursday. Asked the lead driver if Thursdays were a thing of the past and he said not so fast, there's a good chance we'll still work a couple of them each month. No issue since I no longer schedule anything for a Thursday, use Monday for all those appointments.
Worked a lot these past four weeks and got two rather large paychecks for the month. Did the math and I'm a little ahead per hour wise since I moved jobs. My gas gauge didn't move this week as I only drove 41.5 miles the whole week. At this rate, I'll need to fill my tank maybe once a month.
Going for an oil change Monday at 10 and am having them check the brake pads and rotors also. The A3 brakes so much better even though it's got 10K less miles. Much quicker bite than mine and my pedal goes a bit lower when fully engaged. Since I'm keeping the Golf for a bit now, want this taken care of. Haven't test driven the new Seltos yet, or even the Venue either, but plan to wait a bit till deals can be made. Being so new to the market place, both are not budging from MSRP at this point so thinking within six months or so, things will calm down and asking prices will be more inline with reality. Especially if I need to put some $ into the Golf on new brakes, might as well keep it awhile longer. Already sent $ on new sneakers in 2019, so makes no sense to trade it at this juncture unless something major happens. But suspect things will go forward with no drama, so in the garage it'll stay for the time being.

corvette

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:

@ab348,
When you don't make the numbers, someone's head is going to roll.
CAP had their plant manager replaced recently, too.

At only 53 years of age he is far too young to "retire".

Speak for yourself!

stickguy

I am older than that. It would not have been too early to retire.

corvette

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/02/a-buyers-dismay-tesla-reportedly-removes-features-from-used-model-s/

Shady on the part of Tesla. Must be nice to have a product where you can treat your customers badly and still be popular.

stickguy

parked next to a new S60 today. Red over tan. Very sharp looking.

tjc78

stickguy said:

parked next to a new S60 today. Red over tan. Very sharp looking.

I’ll have to agree with you on that

qbrozen

corvette said:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/02/a-buyers-dismay-tesla-reportedly-removes-features-from-used-model-s/

Shady on the part of Tesla. Must be nice to have a product where you can treat your customers badly and still be popular.

this is a dangerous precedent. I hope lawmakers step in and put a stop to it. Some commenters compare to computer/phone software that you wipe clean before sale. However, I don't think that is comparable because 1) used Teslas aren't bought/sold with that defined and 2) the computer/phone software provider doesn't take it away from you; you can install it on another machine. If Tesla wants to travel this road, then, IMHO, they should have a monthly subscription to these features. If allowed to do what they are currently doing, then where does it end? Cars these days run off software, so what is to stop a manufacturer from disabling the entire vehicles until a ransom... I mean fee is paid?

corvette

fintail said:

AWD Tempo would be a nice mate with an AWD Camry and AWD Pontiac 6000 - adventurous times.

AWD Camry is actually coming back, with a real driveshaft and power transfer unit and not an electronic setup. Don't think the Tempo or 6000 will be back, though.

corvette

@qbrozen I agree completely. Had Tesla taken title to the lemon vehicle, wiped it clean, and did whatever else it wanted to the vehicle (changed the color of the interior, swapped wheels, etc.), and accurately marketed it as having the new features (whether greater or lesser) at auction, it would be different.

This is like a cell phone manufacturer equipping all phones with 1 TB of storage, but selling them at different price points based on the amount of storage that is unlocked and available, then telling someone who buys one used that they have to pay (again) to get the additional storage unlocked.

I wonder if the number of affected victims is enough to attract the class action lawyers.

omarman

My sister had a couple interesting cars back in the 80s. I mentioned that she bought a Fox body LTD LX which I liked more than I thought I would. But later she traded for a used Tempo AWD which didn't appeal to me at all. I'm trying to remember now if the AWD small car thing was a safety thing back then or what?

I was fascinated with Audi Quattro history being made back then.

But I had to click on that retro Motorweek video. Mercury actually sold a Topaz AWD version? No Merkur AWD?

corvette

I've seen the 1965 Ford Mustang prototype Ford produced with AWD at the Tampa Bay Auto Museum.

kyfdx

corvette said:

Cincinnati-area peeps, Chevy is also offering me Dayton Auto Show tickets (2/20-2/23) if anyone would like them. I don't plan to use them.

Dayton has an auto show? 🙄

laurasdada

Looked up my locak Kia dealer, thinking of testing a Stinger. Some of the worst, and most consistent Yelp reviews I've seen (and Yelp does to me seem overly negative). One practice consistently noted was that the salesdude/Manager would prepare a handwritten note saying that the client would buy the car today for a reasonable price and, in order to test drive, client had to sign the note.
For those here, who decided not to walk out immediately, could have fun with that note, an edit here and there...
Four squares, deposits to test drive and rampant ADM also noted. Which, I did see when GF and I stopped by to look at a Sportage for her, every single one had $5k ADM, green salesdude stutteringly noted it coverd the 200k miles warranty they offered. Ultimately, he agreed with me, "yeah, it's pure profit. I just work here, don't set the pricing..."

28firefighter

Just finished at the Philly auto Show. A shell of its former glory. Taycan was the highlight for me.

ab348

Turns out Joe Hinrichs stuck around the Ford corporate office long enough to write a 1000-word goodbye letter.

https://www.autonews.com/executives/hinrichs-goodbye-letter-ford-team-leadership-about-service

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/02/a-buyers-dismay-tesla-reportedly-removes-features-from-used-model-s/

Shady on the part of Tesla. Must be nice to have a product where you can treat your customers badly and still be popular.

Shady isn’t half of it. That’s outright theft unless the 2nd buyer was properly notified. That would be like buying an 8 cyl. sports car and having the manufacturer replace the engine with a 4 cyl. at the first oil change.

I read a lot of horror stories about people trying to buy used Teslas but that’s a new one.

oldfarmer50

laurasdada said:

Looked up my locak Kia dealer, thinking of testing a Stinger. Some of the worst, and most consistent Yelp reviews I've seen (and Yelp does to me seem overly negative). One practice consistently noted was that the salesdude/Manager would prepare a handwritten note saying that the client would buy the car today for a reasonable price and, in order to test drive, client had to sign the note.
For those here, who decided not to walk out immediately, could have fun with that note, an edit here and there...
Four squares, deposits to test drive and rampant ADM also noted. Which, I did see when GF and I stopped by to look at a Sportage for her, every single one had $5k ADM, green salesdude stutteringly noted it coverd the 200k miles warranty they offered. Ultimately, he agreed with me, "yeah, it's pure profit. I just work here, don't set the pricing..."

In light of a poster’s $17k off sticker purchase I’d say a $5,000 ADM is either an insult or a poor attempt at humor.

I don’t know how well Stingers are selling elsewhere but the local Kia dealer near me that had a dozen of them last year is now only listing two 2020s, both 4 cyl.

explorerx4

Here is a link to a Stingers at local dealer.
https://www.kiaofeasthartford.com/inventory?keyword=Stinger&submit=Submit&type=new&location=&sortBy=price asc

jmonroe

explorerx4 said:

Here is a link to a Stingers at local dealer.
https://www.kiaofeasthartford.com/inventory?keyword=Stinger&submit=Submit&type=new&location=&sortBy=price asc

It's nice to know that this dealer doesn't have a "doc fee" but I think their $699 "conveyance fee" is a skosh more than I'm willing to pay. I'll have to stick with the old fashioned doc fee which is $144 (I'm pretty sure) in PA this year.

jmonroe

corvette

oldfarmer50 said:

corvette said:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/02/a-buyers-dismay-tesla-reportedly-removes-features-from-used-model-s/

Shady on the part of Tesla. Must be nice to have a product where you can treat your customers badly and still be popular.

Shady isn’t half of it. That’s outright theft unless the 2nd buyer was properly notified. That would be like buying an 8 cyl. sports car and having the manufacturer replace the engine with a 4 cyl. at the first oil change.

I read a lot of horror stories about people trying to buy used Teslas but that’s a new one.

It sounds like their defense is basically “it was auctioned as a lemon, we made no guarantees, therefore, we can do whatever we want in terms of disabling features and making the new owner pay to have them re-enabled.”

The silver lining here is that, generally, the first company to market with a new product (Tesla with a viable electric car) is not the one who makes a mint with it.

explorerx4

jmonroe1,
Conveyance fee is it what it is. You must be a foreigner.

stickguy

28firefighter said:

Just finished at the Philly auto Show. A shell of its former glory. Taycan was the highlight for me.

I am going next Saturday. Last year BMW and Mini bailed. this year I think it is just Mercedes ditching. Odd because they used to have 1/2 of the side ballroom, split with Lexus, and a huge display.

but most everything I want to see will still be there I think. And of course, Oscars afterwards for lunch.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

28firefighter said:

Just finished at the Philly auto Show. A shell of its former glory. Taycan was the highlight for me.

I am going next Saturday. Last year BMW and Mini bailed. this year I think it is just Mercedes ditching. Odd because they used to have 1/2 of the side ballroom, split with Lexus, and a huge display.

but most everything I want to see will still be there I think. And of course, Oscars afterwards for lunch.

No BMW or Mini this year, either. We went to Reading Terminal after. Now the side MB filled (across from Lexus) has Volvo and Lincoln.

I’ll post more thoughts while I’m on the plane home.

cdnpinhead

Is it such that normal everyday people don't care all that much anymore about car shows or cars in general?

I certainly don't. Nothing that's been on offer for the past 15 years has done anything for me at all related to replacing what I was driving..

I realize that this is a sacrilege on this board, but. . .just sayin'.

stickguy

well, Philly still gets a ton of people through. Over 250,000 in a 9 day run. Not sure how that compares to the old days. of course, makers don't help by not showing up! And you definitely are an outlier, so get used to not liking much of what is available now.

28firefighter

We talked about meeting in Detroit or LA next year to hopefully see more of the concept cars and cutting edge stuff.

fintail

Car shows are fun to visit just to see what's new, even if not shopping. I suspect most attendees aren't actively shopping, many probably just like to keep up with what's on the market, even if they don't particularly want it.

stickguy

I know a lot of people just go to check everything out in one place, without having to go into a dealership.

Michaell

@breld, his missus and I met for lunch today. Even though the missus just got the new MB, we are still planning to hit up the Denver Auto Show (with @jpp75) in April to see what catches our fancy.

graphicguy

@laurasdada @oldfarmer50

I consider that a disgrace the way the KIA dealer treated you. I’d complain to ownership. If ownership condones those tactics, I’d remind them there are more KIA dealers around.


While my KIA dealer isn’t my Acura or BMW dealers’ level of service, they’re no worse than the local Chevy or Ford stores.

Stingers with the 6 cyl TT aren’t selling unless the dealers can get trunk money on them. ~$50K is a tough sale at a Kia dealership. The 4 cyl versions are about the price of a
Camry and a much easier sale.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

@breld, his missus and I met for lunch today. Even though the missus just got the new MB, we are still planning to hit up the Denver Auto Show (with @jpp75) in April to see what catches our fancy.

She’ll be overdue for a replacement by then

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Here is a link to a Stingers at local dealer.
https://www.kiaofeasthartford.com/inventory?keyword=Stinger&submit=Submit&type=new&location=&sortBy=price asc

The second local Kia dealer near me also only has two Stingers available. No ADMs that I could see.

What’s the difference between a conveyance and doc fee? I see similar fees at many dealers in CT.

Sandman6472

A big reason I plan to wait on getting anything new this year is I want them to be out in the marketplace for awhile so dealers will be more willing to negotiate a bit more from MSRP. And I've always preferred the last week of the year as a good time to purchase, folks are fixated on the gifts they just got while trying to figure out how to pay for it all. Auto showrooms are kinda dead so a good time to just take a longish test drive and see what deals there are to be had.
From what I can tell, the new version Golf won't be out till possibly early 2021 and just not sure buying the same vehicle again is the way to go. The amount of changes I saw in C & D made me want to wait but am getting a bit antsy to just get something newer and a bit smaller. Just hoping the Kia Seltos with the Bose audio system will peak my interest enough to consider getting one. Right now, it's #1 on my short lit followed by it's cousin, the Hyundai Venue Denim Edition.

venture

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

Here is a link to a Stingers at local dealer.
https://www.kiaofeasthartford.com/inventory?keyword=Stinger&submit=Submit&type=new&location=&sortBy=price asc

The second local Kia dealer near me also only has two Stingers available. No ADMs that I could see.

What’s the difference between a conveyance and doc fee? I see similar fees at many dealers in CT.

It's just a different way to spell profit.

venture

jmonroe said:

explorerx4 said:

Here is a link to a Stingers at local dealer.
https://www.kiaofeasthartford.com/inventory?keyword=Stinger&submit=Submit&type=new&location=&sortBy=price asc

It's nice to know that this dealer doesn't have a "doc fee" but I think their $699 "conveyance fee" is a skosh more than I'm willing to pay. I'll have to stick with the old fashioned doc fee which is $144 (I'm pretty sure) in PA this year.

jmonroe

The last time I read the PA law concerning doc fee I remember it said that a doc fee is negotiable and cannot be pre printed on the sale document. I don't feel like looking it up again.

Sandman6472

Tomorrow's a week since I filled up and still, the gauge hasn't moved a bit with 42 miles on this tank. Leaving for work soon but today, might put on about 10 miles, tops. Maybe dong 50 miles/week, so in reality, an electric vehicle would be almost perfect for me now. I have to go to my pain doc's office once a month to get my scripts, see him every 90 days, but that trip is around 40 miles round trip. Besides that and possibly a trip to Orlando every 3 months or so, am always around the house now that Enterprise is so close.
Think we put under 7500 on our insurance going forward but I might just have to adjust mine to around 5K. Even going just 50 miles/week only comes out to 2600 miles. So with everything else, 5K/year isn't that outrageous. But to be safe, 6.5K might just be a more correct amount. Just not sure as I don't drive as far anymore and we take the A3 most always when we go out.
Am still very pleased with the move I made in December and have not missed Hertz one bit. Definitely prefer the area north of our main office than going south. Always have hated driving in Miami and we've been there once since I started! This new gig is a much better fit for me and just hope the hours stay the same come summer. If only 3 days/week, I'll be quite happy.

graphicguy

I’m still a bit shocked how in this day and age @laurasdada was treated by his Kia dealership regarding a Stinger test drive.

One would think that asking for money to do a test drive from anyone, let alone those of us who (ahem) are obviously of similar ages as those of us who post in here are. Even if you’re young, that’s a ploy which is as can be. Very few, if any, car sales are made without a test drive. It stands to reason, fewer test drives, fewer sales.

We’ve all heard the reasoning behind all of this. Dealers use these tactics to quality buyers. Or, dealers are trying to see if you’re buying TODAY. Or, dealers are trying to eliminate joy riders.

Want to eliminate all of that? Treat your potential customers with respect. Treat them like a valued customer instead of an individual sale. Any successful car sales person will tell you, it’s a relationship business, not a transactional business. You’re not fostering a relationship by treating your potential customer like they’re stupid.

There’s a particular dealership group who runs a Ford and a Buick/GMC dealership a few miles from my Kia dealership. You can tell how they run their dealership. Salespeople all milling about outside, some smoking furiously, waiting to pounce as you pull into their driveway. I experienced them first hand when I took my former Cobra in for a service (because I had a coupon). I had the top down and couldn’t get my car parked before being accosted....”is this your trade?”.

As I mentioned before, my Kia dealer isn’t on the same level as my Acura or BMW dealers. But, the same dealer principal also owns a Mercedes dealer (in KY), another Kia dealership, a Chevy dealership (their tag line...”cars, like eggs, are cheaper in the country”), a Mazda dealership, Nissan, Cadillac and some other ones I’m probably missing.

Maybe the experiences of the other brands trickle down to their Kia stores. Or, maybe the start to a car sales career begins at Kia and you work your way up.

Sales relationships are the same, though...whether you’re buying a Kia or a Mercedes G Wagon. You’re not going to be too successful if you keep putting barriers up to make a potential customer, a customer.

corvette

Looks like the Dayton auto show has more luxury makes than Louisville, despite being a smaller city. I might head up there that weekend if I'm not doing anything else.

ab348

laurasdada said:

One practice consistently noted was that the salesdude/Manager would prepare a handwritten note saying that the client would buy the car today for a reasonable price and, in order to test drive, client had to sign the note.

Reminds me of when I last visited my local Honda dealer when I was very likely to buy a new car from them. This was back in 1990 when Hondas were red-hot sellers and dealers were on allocation. OK, I get that they are likely to not negotiate on sticker in that circumstance. I also didn't like that they loaded every new vehicle they got with Genuine Honda Accessories before offering it for sale - things like rubber wheel opening protectors (just a stick-on rubber strip on the inner lip of the wheel opening), mud flaps, floor mats, plus their own pinstripes, rustproofing, mop & glow, etc. But even that wasn't enough to make me walk. What did was that after test driving the car and saying I liked it, they would not tell me the price until I agreed that I was going to buy it. Say what? That's nuts. Sounds similar to the Kia place.

I walked, and have never set foot in the place since.

jmonroe

venture said:

jmonroe said:

explorerx4 said:

Here is a link to a Stingers at local dealer.
https://www.kiaofeasthartford.com/inventory?keyword=Stinger&submit=Submit&type=new&location=&sortBy=price asc

It's nice to know that this dealer doesn't have a "doc fee" but I think their $699 "conveyance fee" is a skosh more than I'm willing to pay. I'll have to stick with the old fashioned doc fee which is $144 (I'm pretty sure) in PA this year.

jmonroe

The last time I read the PA law concerning doc fee I remember it said that a doc fee is negotiable and cannot be pre printed on the sale document. I don't feel like looking it up again.

The $144 doc fee I mentioned is the MOST that a PA dealer can show on the bill of sale for a doc fee. A large dealership in the Burgh area has been advertising for a few years now on the radio, that the big print words you just heard does not include a doc fee of XXX, tax, title, etc. I give them credit for at least that much honesty. Of couse the savvy buyers like the guys in here take the doc fee amount into consideration when they are at the negotiating table. I don't think I've ever paid a doc fee, regardless of what is shown on the bill of sale.

jmonroe

jmonroe

corvette said:

Looks like the Dayton auto show has more luxury makes than Louisville, despite being a smaller city. I might head up there that weekend if I'm not doing anything else.

I'd still give those tickets away and wait for a car show to come to your companies parking lot.

jmonroe

28firefighter

Okay. So some thoughts on the Philly Auto Show.

Like I said yesterday, it is a shell of its former self. It is now down to one floor in the main exhibition hall of the convention center and then the room off the Marriott across the sky bridge. Notable absences included MB, BMW, and Mini. Even worse, of the brands there, there wasn’t much in the way of concept cars, future models etc.

My Dad’s lease on his Stelvio is up in July so he’s shopping for a replacement. He’s seriously considering one of the Tacoma cheap leases which I think would fit his needs perfectly. Unfortunately he tried to sit in one and the batteries were disconnected so he could not adjust the seats to see if he could get comfortable. Kind of silly.

I spent some time around the Hyundai Palisade which is really an impressive SUV. They’ve done an excellent job with fit and finish along with looks. If we needed an SUV it’d be a top contender for sure.

Spent some time in the Genesis G70 and Kia Stinger. Man, I really like these. They look great, are super comfortable, and obviously fast as all get out. If Kia can get their dealer experience under control and Genesis can generate a strong enough dealer network, I think they’ll be unstoppable. They’re just doing a lot more at a much lower price point.

Subaru had probably the best display - many different trim levels of multiple models, plus the ASPCA adoption event in the middle with lots of puppies to play with. About as on brand as possible. The staff was extremely knowledgeable to a shocking depth and also offered a $500 auto show coupon if you were looking. Another brand that just seems to be doing it “right.”

The highlight of the show for me was the Porsche Taycan. That is one extremely beautiful EV. Similar lines to Tesla but with that German Porsche flare. Really liked it. Of course was locked so didn’t see inside.

The big disappointment for me was the (1) overall lack of cutting edge cars and new models (VW ID, Tesla, etc) and (2) the absence of the new Mustang EV. I was really hoping that would make an appearance.

Overall, a dud, IMO. We decided next year we would try to go to the LA or Detroit Auto Show. Since I have to fly anyway, we thought those might be fun.

pensfan83

If you want to attend the Detroit auto show you are in luck if you can make the dates work. This year is the 1st year that they moved it to June. It's for almost 2 weeks.

pensfan83

Though MB, BMW, and Mini will be there I expect to report similar feedback on the PIT Auto Show, it's been scaled down as well.

28firefighter

I won’t be able to swing it this year, but will definitely plan for next year.

corvette

pensfan83 said:

If you want to attend the Detroit auto show you are in luck if you can make the dates work. This year is the 1st year that they moved it to June. It's for almost 2 weeks.

Wow. I may try to go in 2021. I stayed in a neat Airbnb when I was in Detroit last summer and would love to stay there again.

pensfan83

Yeah they moved it from January, seemingly to drum up more interest. It's going to have to wait for next year for me too, already doing plenty of travel this year.

laurasdada

Phlly auto show sounds smilar to Boston, put on by local dealers, not the manufacturers...
No Porsche in Boston (or Audi, BMW, Jag, MB, Mini), Mustang Mach E was there, but not a lot of information, nor from my observations, much of a crowd. Of course, the new Vette was the belle of the ball.

stickguy

BMW and mini dropped last year. MB joined them this year. Concepts were always hit or miss. At one point they overlapped Detroit, so I assume that had a lot to do with it. But, I am more interested usually in the new actual models you can sit in. Though in the past they had at least a couple pre-production models (if not pure concept cars).

For a number of years the only thing downstairs was stuff like the Dubs display. I don't bother to go down there.

After I go Saturday will report back with my take! At least this year we are actively shopping, so the wife will spend more time paying attention, at least to the stuff she wants to see.