Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

xwesx

Michaell said:

xwesx said:

I love the look and layout of the new Expeditions. That price tag is a tough pill to swallow, though... for sure!

While I don't remember the sticker price on the '99 Expedition XLT 4x4 we leased, I remember the payment being $465/mo.

For a '99?! That would still be a stiff bill each month way back then!

xwesx

qbrozen said:

"clean title" and "nice original paint"
Anyone else looking at these pics find those statements suspect?
C70 in FL

Wow. That's just blatantly, horrendously bad. I doubt he's lying through his teeth, though.... he probably doesn't have any (they were all knocked out by hitting objects because his eyesight is so poor!).

mjfloyd1

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

the weird dynamics of monthly payment is what I love about leasing. The thrill of finding out what nice cars can be had for less money than boring ones!

MEH! For me, leasing is the equivalent of the TIMESHARE industry. Too many reoccurring access points for scammers to scam and swindle you for more money, and you have no leverage to stop it. I prefer AirBNB, owning, selling, and hotels/motels.

leasing is just an alternative method of financing a car.

I could agree with that if there wasn't disposition fees, subjective "excess wear and tear" type fees, and essentially what amounts to prepayment penalties. Also, financing isn't "guaranteed" at the end of the lease. With a "balloon" payment mortgage, for example, what I recall is that all the financing was guaranteed and defined at the end of "balloon popping" period. I might be wrong on that.

All the fees are just rolled into the price. And if you buy a car, there are also wear and tear penalties if you go to sell it (that is, you get less for it). Especially if it has a wreck with major repairs needed.

If you Buy a car with a loan and after 3 years sell it, your cost is basically payments and depreciation. No different than on a lease. The biggest difference being, on a lease, you are guaranteed a residual. On your purchase, it’s worth what someone decides to offer you.

And very often, there are significant lease incentives which offset the up front and disposition costs. But still, the bottom line is comparing your total cost to own to determine which method is more cost effective.

Amen!

To me the greatest advantage of leasing is that if you have a wreck, you just get it fixed and turn it in. You don’t worry about decreased value like you would trading a car in that has a dirty carfax.

au1994

mjfloyd1 said:

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

the weird dynamics of monthly payment is what I love about leasing. The thrill of finding out what nice cars can be had for less money than boring ones!

MEH! For me, leasing is the equivalent of the TIMESHARE industry. Too many reoccurring access points for scammers to scam and swindle you for more money, and you have no leverage to stop it. I prefer AirBNB, owning, selling, and hotels/motels.

leasing is just an alternative method of financing a car.

I could agree with that if there wasn't disposition fees, subjective "excess wear and tear" type fees, and essentially what amounts to prepayment penalties. Also, financing isn't "guaranteed" at the end of the lease. With a "balloon" payment mortgage, for example, what I recall is that all the financing was guaranteed and defined at the end of "balloon popping" period. I might be wrong on that.

All the fees are just rolled into the price. And if you buy a car, there are also wear and tear penalties if you go to sell it (that is, you get less for it). Especially if it has a wreck with major repairs needed.

If you Buy a car with a loan and after 3 years sell it, your cost is basically payments and depreciation. No different than on a lease. The biggest difference being, on a lease, you are guaranteed a residual. On your purchase, it’s worth what someone decides to offer you.

And very often, there are significant lease incentives which offset the up front and disposition costs. But still, the bottom line is comparing your total cost to own to determine which method is more cost effective.

Amen!

To me the greatest advantage of leasing is that if you have a wreck, you just get it fixed and turn it in. You don’t worry about decreased value like you would trading a car in that has a dirty carfax.

Yep and I’ll add on to that: complimentary maintenance during the life of the lease (sometimes), always under mfg warranty and if its a short enough lease with your driving patterns you won’t even buy tires. I think Ive done the latter once when we had our X6. It was a 3 year lease but it was the family truckster so we ran it close to the 36k miles in the term.

explorerx4

I had a 2000 Expedition XLT with a few options. It listed for 37K-38K.

kyfdx

I had a '95 Pathfinder. MSRP around $30K.

$416/mo for a 36/15 lease, with $2500 due at signing.

To keep it in perspective, you could earn about 8% on a CD back then. Most money factors were equivalent to 6%-8% APR.

tifighter

explorerx4 said:

I had a 2000 Expedition XLT with a few options. It listed for 37K-38K.

$38K in 2000 is about $58K in 2020 dollars.

mjfloyd1

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

the weird dynamics of monthly payment is what I love about leasing. The thrill of finding out what nice cars can be had for less money than boring ones!

MEH! For me, leasing is the equivalent of the TIMESHARE industry. Too many reoccurring access points for scammers to scam and swindle you for more money, and you have no leverage to stop it. I prefer AirBNB, owning, selling, and hotels/motels.

leasing is just an alternative method of financing a car.

I could agree with that if there wasn't disposition fees, subjective "excess wear and tear" type fees, and essentially what amounts to prepayment penalties. Also, financing isn't "guaranteed" at the end of the lease. With a "balloon" payment mortgage, for example, what I recall is that all the financing was guaranteed and defined at the end of "balloon popping" period. I might be wrong on that.

What kind of alternative universe do you live in? A lease is financing FOR THE TERM OF THE LEASE. Of course financing isn't guaranteed after the lease ends.

28firefighter

Then leasing (and car rental in general) isn't for you.

Balloon payments do not always guarantee financing at the end.

au1994

explorerx4 said:

I had a 2000 Expedition XLT with a few options. It listed for 37K-38K.

Makes sense. I leased a 99 Explorer XLT for 365 on about a 31k MSRP.

nyccarguy

mjfloyd1 said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

the weird dynamics of monthly payment is what I love about leasing. The thrill of finding out what nice cars can be had for less money than boring ones!

MEH! For me, leasing is the equivalent of the TIMESHARE industry. Too many reoccurring access points for scammers to scam and swindle you for more money, and you have no leverage to stop it. I prefer AirBNB, owning, selling, and hotels/motels.

leasing is just an alternative method of financing a car.

I could agree with that if there wasn't disposition fees, subjective "excess wear and tear" type fees, and essentially what amounts to prepayment penalties. Also, financing isn't "guaranteed" at the end of the lease. With a "balloon" payment mortgage, for example, what I recall is that all the financing was guaranteed and defined at the end of "balloon popping" period. I might be wrong on that.

What kind of alternative universe do you live in? A lease is financing FOR THE TERM OF THE LEASE. Of course financing isn't guaranteed after the lease ends.

California

Michaell

au1994 said:

explorerx4 said:

I had a 2000 Expedition XLT with a few options. It listed for 37K-38K.

Makes sense. I leased a 99 Explorer XLT for 365 on about a 31k MSRP.

Interesting. The wife originally wanted an Explorer, but the dealer told us that the Expeditions were leasing better.

We were young an naive, so we signed up. Was a good car for us, at the time. Just didn't like having to pull out the third row when we didn't need it.

The '02 Explorer that replaced it had the third row fold into the floor - it was MAGIC!

roadburner

stickguy said:

just had to post this for Michael.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK49fizlT4U

I wish there was a flag for "Moron on Video"

explorerx4

My 02 Explorer Eddie Bauer was one of my favorite vehicles.
Had it for almost 13 years.
Lots of good memories for the whole family.
A few bumps along the way, too.

Michaell

explorerx4 said:

My 02 Explorer Eddie Bauer was one of my favorite vehicles.
Had it for almost 13 years.
Lots of good memories for the whole family.
A few bumps along the way, too.

Ours was an XLT, after we discovered the EB trim was out of our budget.

The XLT did have leather, however.

Was pretty reliable, other than the rear window shattered on Easter Sunday at my sister-in-laws house.

explorerx4

The plastic panel below the rear window cracked twice.
Ours had the V8 and my girls drove it in high school.
The boys were jealous because most of them drove hand me down 4 banger sedans.

stickguy

someone in my neighborhood has an explorer of that generation. might be prior? It looks to me like the 2nd generation when they rounded off the edges. A bit ratty, but still runs it seems. They also have a mid-90s BMW 5 series that functions. Even a 5 speed!

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I haven’t been shopping, but it seems that recently lease prices overall are up quite a bit. And the killer bargain $200 deals are not really out there any more.

This jive with what the experts are seeing every day?

Not sure if I’ll lease again next year or not. If I do, hopefully the market stabilizes by then!

According to internet sources (and we know they’re never wrong) you’d be crazy to buy or lease now. The conventional wisdom is that prices will crash around December.

If I was looking for a toy, I’d wait. I suppose there might be a killer deal out there somewhere but I would be suspicious of anything that seemed to good to be true.

I know at work we’ve basically sold so many cars that there is a shortage for the rental offices. We are now down to putting back into service cars that were pulled last week. Our holding lots are just starting to get new unit and are still pretty empty.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

"clean title" and "nice original paint"
Anyone else looking at these pics find those statements suspect?
C70 in FL

The front clip looks a different shade but that’s otherwise a nice low mile car.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Most of the large SUV's I see are rentals.

My guess is that most late model cars on dealer lots are rentals. Our company has been selling them hand over fist. The wholesale prices are too high not to.

Sandman6472

OF, similar situation down here in South Florida. Cars are hard to get for our offices and the new ones are coming in very very slowly. Lately, we've gotten in Toyota's and Kia's and not much else. Business travel is still a bit down and definitely see that in the return lines at PBI.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

stickguy said:

just had to post this for Michael.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK49fizlT4U

I wish there was a flag for "Moron on Video"

So what, Scotty borrowed money from you and didn’t pay it back?

Sandman6472

Golf was fixed today and was a bit expensive. Said the brakes are fine and the rest of what he could see looked pretty good. Hopefully the last repair for a long while. Had to use Lyft both ways as the wife was at her office today but, it worked out fine.
Did notice what I thought was a stone in the tread of the read drivers side tire. To my chagrin, it's a nail so I'll need to take it back to Goodyear to have it patched if possible. Have the road hazard on all four tires so if unfixable, I'll either get a new tire or a pro-rated one. I'll worry about that on Monday morning and go back to the store I bought them at. Think I'll get treated the best there. It's my n/s day and the wife and middle child will be out of town, so I'll have the house to myself. It's a Goodyear Eagle Sport tire and I really like them.

stickguy

Wheels for Michael! In CO, and no reserve. I like this one even in the color combo.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pA8zPje/2005-bmw-330i-zhp-sedan

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

The front clip looks a different shade ....

Oh, is that all? lol.
Hood and passenger front fender is what I see. And the hood looks pretty bad, but no closeup so it is tough to tell. The fact that no color matching or blending was done tells me what I need to know about the repair, personally.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Wheels for Michael! In CO, and no reserve. I like this one even in the color combo.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pA8zPje/2005-bmw-330i-zhp-sedan

That's nice. Wonder what it will sell for? @28firefighter? @kyfdx?

stickguy

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Wheels for Michael! In CO, and no reserve. I like this one even in the color combo.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pA8zPje/2005-bmw-330i-zhp-sedan

That's nice. Wonder what it will sell for? @28firefighter? @kyfdx?

whatever you bid, as long as you are the last one!

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

The front clip looks a different shade ....

Oh, is that all? lol.
Hood and passenger front fender is what I see. And the hood looks pretty bad, but no closeup so it is tough to tell. The fact that no color matching or blending was done tells me what I need to know about the repair, personally.

You have to remember that I’m a hooptie buyer so the fact that the fender is still there is a plus to me. You’re right though, no close ups make it difficult to access if it’s a bad paint job or bad photography. When I said front clip I meant the whole front of the car.

Only way to tell for sure is to inspect in person. When I was looking for my convertible I went to look at one that seemed pretty nice in the photos. Then I looked at the driver’s fender (which had been photo neglected in the ad) and found it all crumpled and caved in. Seems the seller’s brother had run the farm tractor into it. Also had lifter tick on startup... Bye!

If you feel that the seller was misrepresenting the car then he/she is probably going to lie about everything.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Wheels for Michael! In CO, and no reserve. I like this one even in the color combo.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pA8zPje/2005-bmw-330i-zhp-sedan

But...but...a ZHP with only 2 pedals... ugh.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

Wheels for Michael! In CO, and no reserve. I like this one even in the color combo.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3pA8zPje/2005-bmw-330i-zhp-sedan

But...but...a ZHP with only 2 pedals... ugh.

My sister had one with an automatic. I don't judge...

stickguy

oops. I did not even look at that. I just assumed that every ZHP was a stick. If you want a slushbox, might as well get a normal version and save the ZHP $ premium.

stickguy

watched an interesting video earlier about cars and bids. Some other Youtuber decided to try it out and blogged the process. He listed and sold a modded JDM MR2. Pretty interesting behind the scenes play by play of going through the steps and how long it took (about 3 weeks from first submitting for consideration, until the auction started, so 4 weeks until it was sold).

stickguy

starting to be some first look reports dropping on the upcoming MDX redesign. Haven't watched this one yet, but Redline seemed to really like it. Acura should have another hit with it I think. With the people that want something that big!

they really, really need a compact/sporty CUV to slot below the RDX. I still think the rumored ILX replacement ("compact car" I think they call it) is going to be one, or even better, a sedan and CUV version of the platform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AdxoiIB4wA

cdnpinhead

Michaell said:

I don't judge..

Excellent! I'll bet there are two or three others on here who could join you.

28firefighter

Auto with north of 100k miles? Probably $7500 or so.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

The front clip looks a different shade ....

Oh, is that all? lol.
Hood and passenger front fender is what I see. And the hood looks pretty bad, but no closeup so it is tough to tell. The fact that no color matching or blending was done tells me what I need to know about the repair, personally.

I felt like the rear bumper looked to be an off color from the rest of the car, too. Seemed like there were all sorts of hits and errors on that thing.

au1994

Michaell said:

explorerx4 said:

My 02 Explorer Eddie Bauer was one of my favorite vehicles.
Had it for almost 13 years.
Lots of good memories for the whole family.
A few bumps along the way, too.

Ours was an XLT, after we discovered the EB trim was out of our budget.

The XLT did have leather, however.

Was pretty reliable, other than the rear window shattered on Easter Sunday at my sister-in-laws house.

I loved it. It was nice looking too, medium wedge wood blue over beige leather. Comfortable highway cruiser too. Zero problems while I had it. It did have the dreaded Firestones. I was a little too proactive and replaced them on my own dime.

Michaell

au1994 said:

Michaell said:

explorerx4 said:

My 02 Explorer Eddie Bauer was one of my favorite vehicles.
Had it for almost 13 years.
Lots of good memories for the whole family.
A few bumps along the way, too.

Ours was an XLT, after we discovered the EB trim was out of our budget.

The XLT did have leather, however.

Was pretty reliable, other than the rear window shattered on Easter Sunday at my sister-in-laws house.

I loved it. It was nice looking too, medium wedge wood blue over beige leather. Comfortable highway cruiser too. Zero problems while I had it. It did have the dreaded Firestones. I was a little too proactive and replaced them on my own dime.

Ours was green over beige. The 4.0 was a little coarse, but it was a truck, after all...

au1994

Michaell said:

au1994 said:

Michaell said:

explorerx4 said:

My 02 Explorer Eddie Bauer was one of my favorite vehicles.
Had it for almost 13 years.
Lots of good memories for the whole family.
A few bumps along the way, too.

Ours was an XLT, after we discovered the EB trim was out of our budget.

The XLT did have leather, however.

Was pretty reliable, other than the rear window shattered on Easter Sunday at my sister-in-laws house.

I loved it. It was nice looking too, medium wedge wood blue over beige leather. Comfortable highway cruiser too. Zero problems while I had it. It did have the dreaded Firestones. I was a little too proactive and replaced them on my own dime.

Ours was green over beige. The 4.0 was a little coarse, but it was a truck, after all...

Yeah but I was coming from a 95 Tacoma so this was serious luxury for me!

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

the weird dynamics of monthly payment is what I love about leasing. The thrill of finding out what nice cars can be had for less money than boring ones!

MEH! For me, leasing is the equivalent of the TIMESHARE industry. Too many reoccurring access points for scammers to scam and swindle you for more money, and you have no leverage to stop it. I prefer AirBNB, owning, selling, and hotels/motels.

leasing is just an alternative method of financing a car.

I could agree with that if there wasn't disposition fees, subjective "excess wear and tear" type fees, and essentially what amounts to prepayment penalties. Also, financing isn't "guaranteed" at the end of the lease. With a "balloon" payment mortgage, for example, what I recall is that all the financing was guaranteed and defined at the end of "balloon popping" period. I might be wrong on that.

All the fees are just rolled into the price. And if you buy a car, there are also wear and tear penalties if you go to sell it (that is, you get less for it). Especially if it has a wreck with major repairs needed.

If you Buy a car with a loan and after 3 years sell it, your cost is basically payments and depreciation. No different than on a lease. The biggest difference being, on a lease, you are guaranteed a residual. On your purchase, it’s worth what someone decides to offer you.

And very often, there are significant lease incentives which offset the up front and disposition costs. But still, the bottom line is comparing your total cost to own to determine which method is more cost effective.

Amen!

To me the greatest advantage of leasing is that if you have a wreck, you just get it fixed and turn it in. You don’t worry about decreased value like you would trading a car in that has a dirty carfax.

I agree, that is the best advantage of leasing.

So you mean you don't enjoy, gain pleasure, and have fun going to battle with the INSURANCE CABAL over diminished value?

The biggest disadvantage is you are usually stuck for the full lease term as residuals are inflated more often than not.
I think I recall calculating that it was cheaper for me to park the Kia in Tijuana, Mexico for a year unattended, and then return it, rather than return it a year early.

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:

the weird dynamics of monthly payment is what I love about leasing. The thrill of finding out what nice cars can be had for less money than boring ones!

MEH! For me, leasing is the equivalent of the TIMESHARE industry. Too many reoccurring access points for scammers to scam and swindle you for more money, and you have no leverage to stop it. I prefer AirBNB, owning, selling, and hotels/motels.

leasing is just an alternative method of financing a car.

I could agree with that if there wasn't disposition fees, subjective "excess wear and tear" type fees, and essentially what amounts to prepayment penalties. Also, financing isn't "guaranteed" at the end of the lease. With a "balloon" payment mortgage, for example, what I recall is that all the financing was guaranteed and defined at the end of "balloon popping" period. I might be wrong on that.

What kind of alternative universe do you live in? A lease is financing FOR THE TERM OF THE LEASE. Of course financing isn't guaranteed after the lease ends.

Contractually, maybe it should be. Would be easy to put a "buyout" finance amount based on the residual and a pre-determined interest rate.

stickguy

The only variable is how many years and what current interest rate is. The important part, the price, is known. No company is going to lock an interest rate 3 years in advance. Plus, very few people buy out their lease.

mjfloyd1

Those are the terms of the contract. If you don’t like the terms then don’t sign the contract.

Your option after the lease is to buy it out and finance it at the prevailing rate.

If you break the terms of the lease that you agreed to when you signed the lease contract then you suffer a financial impact. Again, this should be common sense- it certainly is here in the Midwest.

I don’t understand your not agreeing to excess wear and tear. I’m sure you would not like it if you loaned your car to someone who brought it back with bald tires and dents larger than a credit card on each body panel. The lease companies need to protect the value of their asset.

I’m sure that sure that parking a car in Tijuana would probably not work out well. Probably no missing parts or new dents after sitting there for a year.

Leasing didn’t work out for you. It does work well for others

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

Those are the terms of the contract. If you don’t like the terms then don’t sign the contract.

Your option after the lease is to buy it out and finance it at the prevailing rate.

If you break the terms of the lease that you agreed to when you signed the lease contract then you suffer a financial impact. Again, this should be common sense- it certainly is here in the Midwest.

I don’t understand your not agreeing to excess wear and tear. I’m sure you would not like it if you loaned your car to someone who brought it back with bald tires and dents larger than a credit card on each body panel. The lease companies need to protect the value of their asset.

I’m sure that sure that parking a car in Tijuana would probably not work out well. Probably no missing parts or new dents after sitting there for a year.

Leasing didn’t work out for you. It does work well for others

The problem is that none of the terms of my lease agreement were broken or breached. The car was returned without any damage, with all parts and pieces as delivered when new, and 4 brand new tires precisely to avoid a somewhat subjective argument on "excess wear and tear." There is simply an alleged "loss of 2nd Key FOB" by Kia Finance and the Kia Dealership by virtue of their FUNDAMENTALLY flawed system of vehicle return. There is no credible proof the 2nd Key FOB was never returned. They merely state it as their opinion based on paperwork taken at the pre-inspection which was over 45 days prior to the vehicle return date. A lot can happen in 45 days. I could have lost a Key FOB, or bought 50 Key FOB's in 45 days.

I agree that the car should be returned in acceptable condition, the problem is you don't know which appraiser the bank will hire and what their level of subjectivity is until after it happens. I'm glad that was not an issue on my lease. I credit that in large part to my taking the trouble to have a pre-inspect done prior to the return of the vehicle. I've had worse experiences with landlords at Apartments stealing deposits; particularly in college towns (that's a racket too).

If the car was stolen in Tijuana that would be ideal, as gap insurance covers any upside down amount, and I don't think the insurance agents would ask for a 2nd key FOB to be proven stolen before shortchanging my payout by $350.

P.S. Don't give the Insurance companies any ideas now!

mjfloyd1

You keep changing what you are talking about. I would like to say that I am surprised but I am not. All I get is a rambling word salad

Unfortunately you have no receipt or photo showing the 2 key fobs

Your beef is with the dealership that you returned the key fobs to. Or if you are even more paranoid then Kia Finance is out to get you. Seriously??

It’s not worth trying to reason with you. Nothing is your fault. You get a speeding ticket and it is APRs fault or some other convoluted story.

It is time to realize that sh&t happens, man up and move on

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

You keep changing what you are talking about. I would like to say that I am surprised but I am not. All I get is a rambling word salad

Unfortunately you have no receipt or photo showing the 2 key fobs

Your beef is with the dealership that you returned the key fobs to. Or if you are even more paranoid then Kia Finance is out to get you. Seriously??

It’s not worth trying to reason with you. Nothing is your fault. You get a speeding ticket and it is APRs fault or some other convoluted story.

It is time to realize that sh&t happens, man up and move on

I don't understand why you use such weak arguments to defend filthy human scum that makes "sh&T" happen. Bankers and Insurance employees seem to routinely do this. Kia Finance acted in bad faith from the very start of the dispute so I have no other experience with them to go by. Is the dealership filthy and scummy too? Probably.

I've never blamed APR for a speeding ticket, but I do see a strong correlation between bankers and insurance workers and "Sh&T" happening.

I just can't find the strong correlation coincidental.

mjfloyd1

The world is out to get you. Every single time something happens.

I’m not making any argument other than pointing out that you are an extremely paranoid person.

I’m not defending the Kia dealership or Kia Finance. I’m merely pointing out that you have as much evidence as they do -None. No one can protect your interests other than you. If you think car dealerships and finance companies are filthy and scummy then you need to ask for a receipt for the two key fobs or take a picture showing the two key fobs were returned.

You do in fact blame everything on someone else. “Other bad drivers” comes to mind.

You did get a speeding ticket and say that it was due to the APR tune. It surely wasn’t because you pushed the gas pedal down too far.

You think that Police give tickets to Audi drivers because they target Audi drivers. I got a ticket in my RS7 because I was speeding. Nothing more and nothing less.

sda

Peace pipe guys

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

The world is out to get you. Every single time something happens.

I’m not making any argument other than pointing out that you are an extremely paranoid person.

I’m not defending the Kia dealership or Kia Finance. I’m merely pointing out that you have as much evidence as they do -None. No one can protect your interests other than you. If you think car dealerships and finance companies are filthy and scummy then you need to ask for a receipt for the two key fobs or take a picture showing the two key fobs were returned.

You do in fact blame everything on someone else. “Other bad drivers” comes to mind.

You did get a speeding ticket and say that it was due to the APR tune. It surely wasn’t because you pushed the gas pedal down too far.

You think that Police give tickets to Audi drivers because they target Audi drivers. I got a ticket in my RS7 because I was speeding. Nothing more and nothing less.

There are many "other bad drivers." Saying "other bad drivers" doesn't mean I'm a bad driver. I suppose things that are written can be interpreted in different ways. Another way to say it is that there are many bad drivers on the roadway mingling with the good drivers.

Following some car groups on social media has confirmed this. I am always amazed at how frequently you see posts of someone getting their car wrecked, either in a minor parking lot hit and run, or in a more major 2-moving car collision.

I never said Police target Audi drivers. I never said a speeding ticket was due to an APR tune. I might have stated that the tune contributed to my speed, but make no mistake, living in CA where the max speed is 65 and the 85th percentile might very well be 20 above that, the law could find me guilty at any time of speeding. With or without APR I'm exceeding 65; so if I was to blame APR, it might only be for a small % of the fine amount which is increased in CA for every MPH over the speed limit you go up to 25 MPH I think. After 25+ you hit the "max speed" fine range, with 100+ being another fine category too (separate VC).

I'm stating it here for the record, APR is not to blame for my speeding ticket, that last high speed ticket was in the Alltrack, which is no speed demon. I don't think Police target particular models or car colors actually. I didn't get more tickets when I drove a bright red S4 vs. a White Kia Optima.

I do think Police target roads and zones known to be particularly exaggeratedly under-posted as to the speed limit. Areas where the politicians decided to ignore or coerced the Traffic Engineers to ignore the objective 85th percentile method, and come up with their own lower speed limit for no discernible reason whatsoever that makes any sense. Higher accident area? Nope, checked that, 1/6th the average for one, 1/8th the average for another. So it seems, these extra low speed limit posted roads were some of the safest around to me.

I15 where the speed limit drops from 70 to 65 MPH about 5 miles north of Escondido (coming South) is another one that comes to mind. I think the argument would be it's a "city" Interstate and therefore congested with more traffic, but the problem with that is I was cited during a low congestion low traffic condition.

I know not all cops ARE BAD. But there's enough "chicken sh&&" cops out there to ruin it for everyone. I should knock on wood, I feel like my on the job training and ranting has made a dent with the CHP's methods and focus. I feel like I've contributed my part to a higher prevailing average speed, bringing average speeds up, and also got more of the CHP to focus more on the 100+ super speeders so they can let the rest drive freely. There seems to be a happy median peace treaty/cease fire going, but knocking on wood again, I might just be saying that because I haven't got a ticket since that Alltrack incident.

mjfloyd1

I am left with more questions than answers.