Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

benjaminh

In terms of mpg and adequate acceleration I'm sure the hybrid Maverick will be fine. But I think it would be nice to be able to have fun, as well as feel more confident when driving in the snow.

stickguy

Not sure any model will really be “fun” on road. But the FWD still has good ground clearance and tires so should be better than most FWD cars in snow.

mjfloyd1

@andres3 said:
2 DOORS are in fact, lighter than 4 doors, no matter how big the 2 doors are, 4 doors will be heavier because they are never twice as heavy.

Wouldn’t it depend on what the doors were made of? Carbon fiber over aluminum 4 doors vs steel 2 door for instance. We are painting with a broad brush.

qbrozen

ronsteve said:

SUV vs CUV seems pedantic to me. And why would marketers like me? It was definitely NOT a good thing when the Outback stopped being a wagon. When I got the RDX I was settling, as wagons at my preferred age/mileage/price point were near impossible to find.

The Venza most closely resembles Edge/Murano/Outback.

I said they'd like you because they want you to call them SUVs. Wagons are taboo to them. You can obviously call it whatever you want. But that means I can, too. As I said, it is close in height to a wagon. Even if by cargo space, the Venza as 55 cu ft. The V60 has 51 and the Murano 65-67. So I exercise my right to classify it as a wagon.

ronsteve

qbrozen said:

I said they'd like you because they want you to call them SUVs. Wagons are taboo to them. You can obviously call it whatever you want. But that means I can, too. As I said, it is close in height to a wagon. Even if by cargo space, the Venza as 55 cu ft. The V60 has 51 and the Murano 65-67. So I exercise my right to classify it as a wagon.

The Brits refer to a wagon as an estate or a longroof. Emphasis on long roof.

So the marketers are happy that I call it a SUV even though I'd rather NOT buy their vehicle?

In my mind it's the aspect ratio of the cargo area that makes the difference.

ronsteve

stickguy said:

IMO the outback, Audi all road and Volvo V60CC are all just jacked up AWD station wagons.

V60 (be it CC or not) and allroad are wagons, as well as the MB E-class wagon and the now defunct TourX and Alltrack. Outback and Venza are decidedly taller and have less rear overhang, in line with the SUV crowd.

Michaell

ronsteve said:

stickguy said:

IMO the outback, Audi all road and Volvo V60CC are all just jacked up AWD station wagons.

V60 (be it CC or not) and allroad are wagons, as well as the MB E-class wagon and the now defunct TourX and Alltrack. Outback and Venza are decidedly taller and have less rear overhang, in line with the SUV crowd.

Funny, when we traded in the CX-7 for the Outback, the wife specifically wanted a "wagon". At the time, the only choices were the Outback and the XC90 (which was about $15K more expensive).

The test drive of the Outback, to me, didn't reveal a lot of difference between the Mazda and the Subaru, in terms of ride height and visibility.

28firefighter

So to get OEM Mopar replacement is $700 including tax installed. Definitely not worth going through insurance given my $500 deductible. To go with Gorilla Glass is $1000 installed and insurance won't reimburse for that. Thoughts?

ronsteve

Michaell said:

ronsteve said:

stickguy said:

IMO the outback, Audi all road and Volvo V60CC are all just jacked up AWD station wagons.

V60 (be it CC or not) and allroad are wagons, as well as the MB E-class wagon and the now defunct TourX and Alltrack. Outback and Venza are decidedly taller and have less rear overhang, in line with the SUV crowd.

Funny, when we traded in the CX-7 for the Outback, the wife specifically wanted a "wagon". At the time, the only choices were the Outback and the XC90 (which was about $15K more expensive).

The test drive of the Outback, to me, didn't reveal a lot of difference between the Mazda and the Subaru, in terms of ride height and visibility.

And the XC90 is definitely a SUV... standard 3-row, even!

Unless you mean the V90 CC, which is a legit big wagon.

breld

ronsteve said:

Michaell said:

ronsteve said:

stickguy said:

IMO the outback, Audi all road and Volvo V60CC are all just jacked up AWD station wagons.

V60 (be it CC or not) and allroad are wagons, as well as the MB E-class wagon and the now defunct TourX and Alltrack. Outback and Venza are decidedly taller and have less rear overhang, in line with the SUV crowd.

Funny, when we traded in the CX-7 for the Outback, the wife specifically wanted a "wagon". At the time, the only choices were the Outback and the XC90 (which was about $15K more expensive).

The test drive of the Outback, to me, didn't reveal a lot of difference between the Mazda and the Subaru, in terms of ride height and visibility.

And the XC90 is definitely a SUV... standard 3-row, even!

I'm pretty sure @michael meant to say XC70, fwiw.

stickguy

Is gorilla glass really that much better? If so, $300 seems like a reasonable up charge.

breld

Got a call from the Volvo dealership this morning to let me know there was an error in the sales tax collected.

When I traded the Leaf, they were up-front that was no sales tax credit for the trade since it was leased. I was aware of that and did notice a credit had been applied to the city sales tax (but not the other taxes). I didn't say anything, since I figured it was all done by their system.

But it was rejected by the DMV for title processing due to the tax collection error, and the finance manager had to call me and give me the unfortunate news that I owed another $851 in taxes. That didn't surprise me in the least, so I think he was pleased at my reaction and prompt payment.

Makes me wonder though...I have definitely received the sales tax credit for a trade that was leased in the past...most recently with the V90 we traded last year. It must be the dealership is processing the trade in a different manner and hopes to not get audited?

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

So to get OEM Mopar replacement is $700 including tax installed. Definitely not worth going through insurance given my $500 deductible. To go with Gorilla Glass is $1000 installed and insurance won't reimburse for that. Thoughts?

My go to would be a used windshield but your vehicle is too new for that.

stickguy

breld said:

ronsteve said:

Michaell said:

ronsteve said:

stickguy said:

IMO the outback, Audi all road and Volvo V60CC are all just jacked up AWD station wagons.

V60 (be it CC or not) and allroad are wagons, as well as the MB E-class wagon and the now defunct TourX and Alltrack. Outback and Venza are decidedly taller and have less rear overhang, in line with the SUV crowd.

Funny, when we traded in the CX-7 for the Outback, the wife specifically wanted a "wagon". At the time, the only choices were the Outback and the XC90 (which was about $15K more expensive).

The test drive of the Outback, to me, didn't reveal a lot of difference between the Mazda and the Subaru, in terms of ride height and visibility.

And the XC90 is definitely a SUV... standard 3-row, even!

I'm pretty sure @michael meant to say XC70, fwiw.

That makes way more sense. Also just a lifted station wagon same as an OB.

tjc78

@28firefighter said:
So to get OEM Mopar replacement is $700 including tax installed. Definitely not worth going through insurance given my $500 deductible. To go with Gorilla Glass is $1000 installed and insurance won't reimburse for that. Thoughts?

It’s a lease. Go with the standard windshield.

Volvo replacement is $1100. I went through insurance but only have a $50 deductible for glass. They are coming tomorrow to do it.

Just to be sure the $700 includes the calibration? That was almost $400 of the $1100 on the quote

stickguy

I doubt a wrangler has much calibration. Doesn’t the windshield still fold down?

tjc78

I just assumed it had safety systems like most new cars.

stickguy

It does but I don’t think anything like eyesite that has a fancy electronics box mounted on the windshield. But as always, I could be wrong!

mjfloyd1

Well, @28firefighter , it depends on how lucky you feel. A rock cracked the first windshield in a couple of months and you are paying out of pocket. If it happens again it will be another $700 OOP. An extra $300 seems like cheap insurance to me…

28firefighter

So, I spoke to another shop and he says his supplier has an OEM Mopar Gorilla Glass windshield that he can do for $450 installed based on my VIN. That seems low but he his calling them and verifying his schedule this week and will call me back EOD.

FWIW, I did not get advanced safety package on mine (adaptive cruise, etc.) and means I have no calibration.

mjfloyd1

@28firefighter said:
So, I spoke to another shop and he says his supplier has an OEM Mopar Gorilla Glass windshield that he can do for $450 installed based on my VIN. That seems low but he his calling them and verifying his schedule this week and will call me back EOD.

FWIW, I did not get advanced safety package on mine (adaptive cruise, etc.) and means I have no calibration.

I hope that works out. That would be great

sda

I haven't heard of Gorilla glass for vehicles. Is that something recent? I have had Gorilla glass protectors on my daughter's I-phone.

qbrozen

ronsteve said:

The Brits refer to a wagon as an estate or a longroof. Emphasis on long roof.

So the marketers are happy that I call it a SUV even though I'd rather NOT buy their vehicle?

In my mind it's the aspect ratio of the cargo area that makes the difference.

well now I'm curious. What is the aspect ratio you are referring to?

And, yes, they want everyone to call it an SUV.

stickguy

I’m guessing height vs length?

Use Sube. Outback is a wagon. Cargo area is long but relatively low. Forester is a CUV. sorter but taller cargo area.

mjfloyd1

@sda said:
I haven't heard of Gorilla glass for vehicles. Is that something recent? I have had Gorilla glass protectors on my daughter's I-phone.

Just recently started offering it on Jeep wranglers. It caused a delay if you ordered it with gorilla glass.

I believe it is a protective layer over the regular glass just like phones - that was my take looking at the Corning gorilla glass website

28firefighter

mjfloyd1 said:

@sda said:

I haven't heard of Gorilla glass for vehicles. Is that something recent? I have had Gorilla glass protectors on my daughter's I-phone.

Just recently started offering it on Jeep wranglers. It caused a delay if you ordered it with gorilla glass.

I believe it is a protective layer over the regular glass just like phones - that was my take looking at the Corning gorilla glass website

One nuance -I believe there is a layer under the front glass - part of the acoustic interlayer - where the gorilla glass liner goes. Supposedly stops chips from turning into cracks. Can't imagine why they'd be concerned with that...

mjfloyd1

Since it is near vertical and seems to attract stones and rocks perhaps

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

Is gorilla glass really that much better? If so, $300 seems like a reasonable up charge.

If I’m reading this right Jeep can install better glass but wants more money to do it. It’s pretty damn bad when an owner can’t expect their windshield to last the life of their cars. They did back in my earlier days. Maybe with all this higher horsepower that today’s cars have, bigger rocks are being hurled around.

Hold on folks, if this is a profit center for Jeep the other manufacturers are sure to follow.

That’s not an old person talking…that’s an experienced person talking. GEEZE.

jmonroe

stickguy

Windshields have always been getting cracked. That’s nothing new.

mjfloyd1

Gorilla glass is only $99 more from factory

Jeep wranglers seem worse with the near vertical windshields vs an angled windshield causing chips and cracks

Michaell

breld said:

ronsteve said:

Michaell said:

ronsteve said:

stickguy said:

IMO the outback, Audi all road and Volvo V60CC are all just jacked up AWD station wagons.

V60 (be it CC or not) and allroad are wagons, as well as the MB E-class wagon and the now defunct TourX and Alltrack. Outback and Venza are decidedly taller and have less rear overhang, in line with the SUV crowd.

Funny, when we traded in the CX-7 for the Outback, the wife specifically wanted a "wagon". At the time, the only choices were the Outback and the XC90 (which was about $15K more expensive).

The test drive of the Outback, to me, didn't reveal a lot of difference between the Mazda and the Subaru, in terms of ride height and visibility.

And the XC90 is definitely a SUV... standard 3-row, even!

I'm pretty sure @michael meant to say XC70, fwiw.

Yeah, that’s it. XC70 at the time.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

Windshields have always been getting cracked. That’s nothing new.

Sure, they’ve always cracked but it’s with greater regularity now.

jmonroe

ronsteve

breld said:

I'm pretty sure @michael meant to say XC70, fwiw.

This makes a lot more sense... a legit wagon, even if it is lifted in the spirit of the 2009 and earlier Outbacks.

ronsteve

stickguy said:

I’m guessing height vs length?

Use Sube. Outback is a wagon. Cargo area is long but relatively low. Forester is a CUV. sorter but taller cargo area.

Yes height vs length...

Outback reduced length slightly with the 2010 redesign, but grew substantially taller.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

I’m guessing height vs length?

Use Sube. Outback is a wagon. Cargo area is long but relatively low. Forester is a CUV. sorter but taller cargo area.

we'll see what the answer is, but I can guarantee you it is not cut and dry. By ratio only, a Suburban would be more wagon-like than a CTS "saloon," for example.

roadburner

mjfloyd1 said:

Since it is near vertical and seems to attract stones and rocks perhaps

I've had one chip on my Wrangler in the 19 years I've owned it. Insurance covered the resin fix for free.

roadburner

I found a Mineral Gray M4 manual with 47k miles on it; sadly it is not a Competition...

mjfloyd1

@roadburner said:
I've had one chip on my Wrangler in the 19 years I've owned it. Insurance covered the resin fix for free.

I assume glass is thinner now for weight savings???

explorerx4

Back when we had a couple of VW Thing's, the windshield on one got a crack.
My dad when to a local glass shop and they made one for about a third of the price of the auto glass place.

qbrozen

I had previously mentioned the Jeep’s lack of hybrid feel and recapture ability. Turns out there is a button for that. Acts more like an electric car with the one-pedal driving.

Sandman6472

I had my college roommate take out all four of mine also. He was at the U. of Miami doing his last year to become an oral surgeon so he had me come down to the clinic and pulled all four out. I got sick from the pain meds but once he changed those, I was feeling much better. Took off a week and only ate mashed potatoes for every meal as I couldn't chew. My mother-in-law stayed with us to take care of me and made sure I ate those mashed potatoes.
Didn't cost us a dime as the work was done in their clinic and I was practice for him. He was/is extremely intelligent so knew I'd be in great hands! Wasn't a good couple of weeks and I lost a good 10 pounds but by week two, was feeling well enough to go back to work. Soft foods only for almost a month though.

28firefighter

I just wish I could "latch" the regen setting - I literally use it all the time.

mjfloyd1

@28firefighter - this link shows the gorilla glass as having a two year warranty

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/windows/68401325aa-mopar-gorilla-glass-windshield?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6s2IBhCnARIsAP8RfAhZPMeWuWMtrM3QGSof98xmJcpnTIk8xcelPuZWl3-NkELGdZdOGiYaAmNnEALw_wcB

28firefighter

Also makes me wonder on what planet this could be $450 installed...

explorerx4

Maybe they meant...
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gorilla-1-88-in-x-9-yds-Crystal-Clear-Tape-60270/204593167?mtc=Shopping-B-F_D24-B-D24-024_005_TAPE-Multi-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Sundries_LIA&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D24-B-D24-024_005_TAPE-Multi-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Sundries_LIA-71700000076017927-58700006488652140-92700058625376813&gclid=0bf42697a277195aa6cd4783ff9b613e&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=0bf42697a277195aa6cd4783ff9b613e

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

@andres3 said:

2 DOORS are in fact, lighter than 4 doors, no matter how big the 2 doors are, 4 doors will be heavier because they are never twice as heavy.

Wouldn’t it depend on what the doors were made of? Carbon fiber over aluminum 4 doors vs steel 2 door for instance. We are painting with a broad brush.

Do you know of any car with steel front doors and carbon fiber or aluminum rear doors? If anything it would be the other way around; you'd want the front doors to be lighter.

mjfloyd1

All 4 doors carbon fiber over aluminum. Why mix and match? The total weight of those 4 doors vs the total weight of a different car with 2 steel doors

No one said it had to be a production car…

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

All 4 doors carbon fiber over aluminum. Why mix and match? The total weight of those 4 doors vs the total weight of a different car with 2 steel doors

No one said it had to be a production car…

Well that's comparing apples and oranges. Production cars make sense because they are available to be driven.

If 4 aluminum doors are lighter than 4 steel doors, it stands that 2 doors made of aluminum (apples to apples) will still be lighter than 4 doors of aluminum.

This reminds me of the person that said driving faster doesn't get you from A to B faster because of bathroom breaks and eating breaks on road trips. Why the person driving the speed limit gets to eat less and go to the bathroom less I'll never understand.

mjfloyd1

Yes I’m comparing apples and oranges. I don’t recall it being stated that it had to be apples to apples.

What do breaks have to do with doors? Apples and pears

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

Yes I’m comparing apples and oranges. I don’t recall it being stated that it had to be apples to apples.

What do breaks have to do with doors? Apples and pears

I was reminded of the Pears by a person that didn't like the simple math required to calculate time saved driving X more miles per hour faster over Y amount of time. Pretty simple math. But the person seemed more interested in making it seem like going faster saved no time, so they altered the math to include cherries by introducing bathroom and eating breaks, but for some reason the slower driving equation didn't have those cherries.