Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

benjaminh

It's a good thing you are entertained by thinking about the nearly infinite permutations of vehicle types, options, brands, leasing vs. financing, etc.

Hope you're not torturing yourself over this.

The Frontier Pro 4X has heavy duty metal plates underneath for serious off road driving. It also has large ground clearance and a special lifted suspension. Big V-6 engine. Poor mpg. Do you really want to drive a thing like that? Are you sure you're not being lured by a good deal into driving/diving off into the automotive deep end?

benjaminh

From the youtube videos the rear seat room of the Maverick actually looks significantly more comfortable than the rear seat room of the Frontier.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

oh, one more crazy thing from the lease deal on the Nissan. Which helps explain the good price. on a 24/10 lease, MSRP of about 45K, residual just about 40K. So roughly an 88-89% residual.

That's a bizarre residual.

stickguy

I don't ride in the back seat, so who cares about them! Gas mileage is nice of course, but when you only drive 100 miles a week or so, not a huge difference.

The functionality does make a difference. Which is why I wouldn't buy one without giving it a try first. Most likely it wouldn't be quite what we are looking for, but don't know until you try!

qbrozen

mjfloyd1 said:

Are you other 4xe people getting “ducked”. I’ve had two rubber duckys left on my Jeep so far. It’s a Jeep way of saying “I like your wrangler””

um, no. Do I have to call a carpet cleaning company afterwards?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjQWXDp3Vww

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Vehicles I never even saw in person but put into my fleet:
Coronet (never even drove one)
Charger (I did test drive a Charger R/T of similar vintage)
ML63 (never drove one)
Camaro LT1 (never drove one)
Wrangler (never drove one after 2004)

Oh, and my 350z I did see but didn't drive, although I drove another of same year/trim.

318ti Club Sport(Ordered sight unseen, but I had driven a base 318ti)
Mazdaspeed3(had test driven another)
2002(bought off eBay; had driven several '02s decades ago)

roadburner

My wife and I saw a new Frontier Pro 4X tonight; she said that she really liked the looks of it. So...
Flip the Wrangler for a Frontier?
or
Flip the 2er for an M2 Comp or a G42 M240i?
It would be nice if I could afford to do both

28firefighter

Wondering what the VPP deal is on the frontier. Assuming $2k to invoice and that’s what VPP is, you’re sub 400 all in…

My wife said if we did that I’d have to give her the Jeep. I am not really aligned with that.

corvette

@roadburner - I thought your Wrangler was a "lifer?"

Michaell

stickguy said:

oh, one more crazy thing from the lease deal on the Nissan. Which helps explain the good price. on a 24/10 lease, MSRP of about 45K, residual just about 40K. So roughly an 88-89% residual.

I thought we covered this ground - 24/10 residual is 90%.

MF is .00228, however

stickguy

yeah, MF was high but in the end, all that matters is the payment. I don't care how they get there.

that residual though, seems nuts. I guess it guarantees they are getting a lot of 2 YO trucks back!

roadburner

corvette said:

@roadburner - I thought your Wrangler was a "lifer?"

Probably. I'd like to get it under roof, however.

tjc78

We both had sat in an XC90 but neither of us had driven one before we bought it.

Everything else I’ve owned I drove either the one I bought or a similar equipped model.

au1994

28firefighter said:

Nope - but I've been hearing about it.

Same here

au1994

stickguy said:

yeah, MF was high but in the end, all that matters is the payment. I don't care how they get there.

that residual though, seems nuts. I guess it guarantees they are getting a lot of 2 YO trucks back!

Drive it. Like it? Still able to get a good deal?

Get it. Its only a 2 year lease and life is short.

If not the Maverick is a great consolation prize.

qbrozen

Shoot, @28firefighter reminded me about the Stelvio. I did drive a friend’s, but his had the base seats. Leased my Ti sight unseen.

There were some others long long ago but too far back to remember much. I know I didn’t drive my first car (CJ7) because I didn’t have my license yet nor knew how to drive stick. My father drove for me. Then there was the stray Zephyr he brought home for me after I totaled the Jeep.

benjaminh

A 20-minute off-road test of the Nissan Frontier Pro 4X.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwFpMwkhtBM

au1994

qbrozen said:

Shoot, @28firefighter reminded me about the Stelvio. I did drive a friend’s, but his had the base seats. Leased my Ti sight unseen.

There were some others long long ago but too far back to remember much. I know I didn’t drive my first car (CJ7) because I didn’t have my license yet nor knew how to drive stick. My father drove for me. Then there was the stray Zephyr he brought home for me after I totaled the Jeep.

If the Alfa dealer was closer, I’d really like to get a Stelvio for my wife. Lease of course. Long term ownership of an Alfa still gives me cold sweats.

sda

qbrozen said:

Shoot, @28firefighter reminded me about the Stelvio. I did drive a friend’s, but his had the base seats. Leased my Ti sight unseen.

There were some others long long ago but too far back to remember much. I know I didn’t drive my first car (CJ7) because I didn’t have my license yet nor knew how to drive stick. My father drove for me. Then there was the stray Zephyr he brought home for me after I totaled the Jeep.

“stray Zephyr “, lol. What a let down but you did have a car. When one of my sisters wrecked the Toyota she was driving dad told her to share the Pontiac my other sister was driving. Two unhappy girls.

oldfarmer50

benjaminh said:

Payments on your Maverick as a purchase over 5 years should be similar. I realize you rarely keep a vehicle that long, but currently Ford is offering 1.9% over 5 years, which as you know is a very good rate. Of course, I realize that rate might not be offered when your Maverick actually arrives at the dealer.

He should be able to get that same rate at a credit union even if Ford doesn’t offer it. My own CU is offering below that rate currently.

I understand the new Frontier is improved over the bare bones previous model but I’m guessing it still rides like a truck (which is what it is). I’m not a big fan of modern trucks that are more luxury than truck so for me it would be ok but I’m not sure stick would be happy with it.

Good luck finding a used pick up these days. Your best bet there is to make friends with some 90 yo and wait until he gives up driving.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:

Vehicles I never even saw in person but put into my fleet:
Coronet (never even drove one)
Charger (I did test drive a Charger R/T of similar vintage)
ML63 (never drove one)
Camaro LT1 (never drove one)
Wrangler (never drove one after 2004)

Oh, and my 350z I did see but didn't drive, although I drove another of same year/trim.

318ti Club Sport(Ordered sight unseen, but I had driven a base 318ti)
Mazdaspeed3(had test driven another)
2002(bought off eBay; had driven several '02s decades ago)

Only car I ever bought without a test drive was the cargo van and I kind of knew what to expect there.

oldfarmer50

Here’s one for stickguy as a 2 year place holder. Better jump on this fast as I noticed the seller bumped the price since he first listed it.

https://vermont.craigslist.org/cto/d/bomoseen-1986-ford-ranger/7374532193.html

stickguy

Little pricy. And I am skeptical about the no rust claim out of Vermont. V6, 4 speed? That’s ok!

au1994

oldfarmer50 said:

Here’s one for stickguy as a 2 year place holder. Better jump on this fast as I noticed the seller bumped the price since he first listed it.

https://vermont.craigslist.org/cto/d/bomoseen-1986-ford-ranger/7374532193.html

As John McEnroe once said “You cannot be serious!!”

stickguy

These days, if it really isn’t rusted out and runs ok with no serious needs, that probably is a good (or at least realistic) price.

kyfdx

@stickguy

2022 Ford Maverick Lease Deals and Prices

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

These days, if it really isn’t rusted out and runs ok with no serious needs, that probably is a good (or at least realistic) price.

As I said he bumped the price about $150 since it was first posted so somebody must have been whispering in his ear. Only way to know for sure is take a weekend leaf peeping trip to Lake Bomoseen. In today’s market everybody with a wheelbarrow wants a million.

That’s nice country, if you don’t find the truck of your dreams maybe you’ll stumble on the home of your dreams.

stickguy

We really liked Vermont. I spent time there as a kid too, since my grandparents lived there until I was about 12.

ab348

Another Hyundai recall for engine woes, this time 2017 Tucsons and Sonata Hybrids, about 95,000 in total. Some will be getting new engines.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-tucson-sonata-hybrid-recall-fire-engine-stall

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Another Hyundai recall for engine woes, this time 2017 Tucsons and Sonata Hybrids, about 95,000 in total. Some will be getting new engines.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-tucson-sonata-hybrid-recall-fire-engine-stall

Oh, oh. That’s the engine in my Soul I think.

One thing that doesn’t make sense in that article. It said:

“ Owners will begin receiving letters notifying them of the recall on Nov. 12. They won't pay for any repairs necessary if a new engine's required.”

If you need a new engine they won’t pay for it? I don’t get it.

andres3

abacomike said:

@breld said:

On the subject of loans, I’ve tried to work directly with my bank or credit union, but I’ve yet to use them. The dealerships are so much more efficient at securing loans, and usually with better rates.

I am in total agreement with you, Breld!

My last two car loans were arranged at dealerships:

2020 MB E450 financed at 0% for 36 months

2021 Genesis G90 financed at 1.9% for 60 months.

No bank or credit union came close on either loan.

A lot of times to get those great low rates you are forgoing a lot of money on the table. Most rebates are an either/or with the good financing.

laurasdada

Similar:
'13 Jag XF 60 mos @1.84%
'21 A7e 60 mos @ Blutarsky GPA.

au1994

laurasdada said:

Similar:
'13 Jag XF 60 mos @1.84%
'21 A7e 60 mos @ Blutarsky GPA.

Ha! That took me a minute!

andres3

roadburner said:

More confirmation that I should not buy a Supra- from a Supra forum, where a lot of owners are learning the hard way that many Toyota service departments do not have a handle on BMW technology:

Went to the dealership. Found out in addition to bricking the ECU they fried a bunch of ancillary electrical components, such as the camera system, etc. Pulled my contract...will have right of first refusal if they ever fix everything. The search continues... it was nice "owning" a Supra for 7 days.

Apparently some dealers are attempting to update ECUs without connecting the vehicle to a battery tender, the result being that the ECU immediately becomes a large paperweight.

The Toyota could handle being struck by lightning directly onto the ECU motherboard and it would still run 300,000 miles without an oil change.

explorerx4

When I bought my Explorer, there was an either/or incentive option. $500 or 0% for 6 years. Also a separate $2,750 cash rebate.

stickguy

same with our current RDX. Either take the .9% for 60 months, or market rate (5.4% I think) with an extra $1,500 discount incentive. I did the math, and needed to pay off the loan in something like 1.5 years or I would come out behind taking the case.

I did check a couple sources but the refi rate was somewhere in the middle, and IIRC not low enough to change the decision. So I took the cheap money, and put extra cash into paying down the mortgage instead.

kyfdx

0%/72 mo. on the X3. If you didn’t take the financing, you lost a $1000 rebate.

I kid you not. 25 payments left

stickguy

I should have ordered up a bright red offroad beast when I had the chance.

corvette

I think this is the first photo I took with my new phone.

fintail

Read this on a MB forum - looks like more reason to buy out the wagon at the end of March:

Just spoke to my dealer and here is what he told me regarding leasing a 2022 E Class:

Due to the chip shortage orders placed now he expects to be delivered before April - between 4 and 6 months.
The residuals have been dramatically reduced: For 36 months, 10K miles per year the residual on the E350 will be 53%; for the E450 54%. The residual on my 2019 E450, 36 months, 10K per year is 59%.
There will be discounts but nothing like in the past: the car I configured had a MSRP of $69,800 and a selling price of $68,650 a discount of 1.65%. On my 2019 which I ordered in September, 2018 for delivery in December 2018 was discounted 12%.
The monthly payment, with zero down and NYS sales tax put into the lease came to $1,195 per month. The monthly payment on my 2019 E450, zero down, NYS sales tax in the lease (apples to apples) is $896. That is an increase of 33 1/3%!
The MSRP on my 2019 E450 was $71,095, $1295 more than the 2022 E450:
The residual on my car is $41,946 which represents 59% of the MSRP.
The dealer has for sale only one used 2019 E300 with 27,500 miles for a price of $47,500. My car is an E450, $5000 more than the E300, with only 20,600 miles, 7,000 miles less, yet the dealer is trying to tell me that I have "no equity" in my lease and my car is worth only $42,000.

I think my residual was something like 61, which at the time might have been accurate, but in this weird world makes for a good deal.

stickguy

I imagine there will be a lot more people buying out leases for a while. If I still had my TLX coming due in December, I definitely would. That of course further suppresses the supply of used cars, though at least cuts down on the demand for new ones!

fintail

I finally timed something right, never had made big money in real estate, but I timed a car well. I feel like one of those lucky people who bought a new car in 1941.

Michaell

stickguy said:

I imagine there will be a lot more people buying out leases for a while. If I still had my TLX coming due in December, I definitely would. That of course further suppresses the supply of used cars, though at least cuts down on the demand for new ones!

Which will continue to hurt used car supply.

stickguy

well, at some point all the bought out leases will start getting traded in. Probably.

could be a long time before the car market finally starts working more normally again.

Michaell

@stickguy said:
well, at some point all the bought out leases will start getting traded in. Probably.

could be a long time before the car market finally starts working more normally again.

I think once production returns to normal levels, we will see improvements.

Just don't know when that will be.

boomchek

So I went to a Ford dealer today to check out the full size Bronco, and surprisingly they had a couple 4 doors available in stock available for immediate delivery with no msrp markup.

Wife and I decided to get a 2nd newish car to complement our Audi A7. The A7 has been our main family car for the past year and a half and her drive to part time work car as I mainly just bought cheap trade ins every 6 or so months we got at work to use for my 10-15 minute commutes (I had a couple W204 Mercedes C classes, Lexus IS, Audi A4 wagon, older X5, older Civics in the past 2 years).

Now the cheaper stuff is harder to come by due to car shortage and our dealership keeping almost everything for retail sale, so we decided to maybe get a 2nd car that's newer and nicer than my older commuters.

I was originally really excited for the Bronco, even aiming to get the base 2 door soft top unit to use as a inexpensive commuter and fun summer or winter runner. But apart from a couple 4 doors in stock, the 2 doors have about a year wait list.

The 4 door base model (4 cylinder, automatic, soft top) we test drove was a bit disappointing, and for the near $50k price I think I'd be better off finding something else. Maybe we got a bit spoiled driving mostly luxury cars the past few years but my wife wasn't impressed with all the plastics inside and outside, and I didn't care for the narrow looking base steel wheels, and the puny 4 cylinder engine sound that did not match the bulkiness and toughness of the overall Bronco look. The trick soft top that could be flipped up opening the front passenger compartment was neat, but how often would I be using it. I'd probably get more tired of the noise of constant rain hitting the soft top for the 6 months out of the year here in BC. And the rear cargo area access is only through a bottom half door, while the soft top upper half is fixed and not unzippable making cargo loading a bit of a chore. I'm sure in the summer the removable soft top and the frameless doors would give it an open airy feeling but that, and the "new model" look of it is the only appealing thing about it to me.

We also looked at a higher model, Big Bend I think, and although it looked a bit nicer outside (glossy grille vs flat black plastic grill on the base model, alloy wheels, and couple other things) I'm not sure it made an impact on me.

While it may be a cool novelty car, and maybe the 2 door would be better for me due to its cheaper price tag, I think I'll cross it off the list.

Other vehicles we are considering:

New Impreza WRX, relatively cheap 2-3 year leases due to strong residuals. $199 bi weekly $0 down taxes in. That's Honda Civic price territory for something a bit more fun, but base WRX is manual only and wife wouldn't be able to drive it. Plus I'm not crazy about its looks. Cheap payment, AWD, and fun factor is the only appealing thing here.

New Subaru Crosstrek. Once again super cheap leases ($155-$200bw for 2-3 years), and decent amount of car for the money but I think I would get bored of it fairly quickly too.

New Golf Comfortline or Highline. Fairly well equipped and fun to drive with cheap leases available as well but I have a feeling I'd get bored of it within a few days so having one for 2-4 years might feel like a chore.

New Genesis GV70. Decent looking SUV with relative cheap lease payments ($250-$300bw). There's also a wait of a few months for these. It would be my wife's main driver while I'd be daily driving our A7.

Maybe a used late model Mercedes GLC or a BMW 4 series convertible. A BMW convertible right now is most appealing as it's a folding hard top and has awd which is great for all seasons, 4 seats so we can drive kids to school, and would make a fun summer car for our family.

So we're all over the map right now but the the search continues....

benjaminh

Here's yet another financi

stickguy said:

I should have ordered up a bright red offroad beast when I had the chance.

Those were good lease payments for that Nissan Frontier Pro 4X because of the crazy high residual, but is going off road in a big way something you're actually going to do? If not, that machine with the high suspension and the steel plates underneath is overkill if it'll just be used for sometimes moving stuff. And since it would be a lease you wouldn't want to even scratch it much by going off road anyway, because they'll just bill you for that at the end.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but even for you stickguy that Frontier Pro 4X seems like an unusual automotive fixation.

For a similar payment per month you can actually be buying your Maverick and building equity.

What you ordered seems like just about the perfect Maverick. And by ordering the 2.0T and skipping the luxury package it seems like your combination of car and truck might be in your hands in just a couple of more months. You'll be one of the first in the country with this hot vehicle, while others are still waiting months to get theirs.

A Ford Maverick as you've configured it is I think going to have good resale value. And so if in a couple of years if you decide you don't need even a small truck, you'll be able to roll that equity into something else.

If Ford still has the 0.9% financing over 4 years when your Maverick Lariat arrives, after two years you'd own half of the vehicle, rather than having nothing after a two year lease on that Nissan.

qbrozen

Yesterday, the wife saw something on the road that piqued her interest. A full-sized conversion van. Yeah, I kid you not. Her thinking is that we might like something bigger than the T&C for traveling with the kids and dogs and luggage. She started researching prices on them. HOLY COW! I honestly would have thought those things depreciate like stale bread. Not that asking prices should dictate the market but I have not seen any late model used one for under $60k that doesn’t have round-trip-to-the-moon mileage on it.

I may tell her to check out a used Metris. Lacks in many creature comforts, but I see a couple of used ones with leather and a couple other options for $30k with 30k miles. Maybe I could add aftermarket comforts.

corvette

I think Hoovie has a couple of those conversion vans in his fleet (one of them is a late model), perhaps he'd be willing to part with one?

ab348

qbrozen said:

I may tell her to check out a used Metris. Lacks in many creature comforts, but I see a couple of used ones with leather and a couple other options for $30k with 30k miles. Maybe I could add aftermarket comforts.

DeMuro hates it.

https://youtu.be/sa8kHgmZIiQ