Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

benjaminh

andres3 said:

Finding an engine is doable. Finding an engine that's got less than 50K miles seems to be impossible. Finding a seller that stands behind what they're selling is a tall order too.

Vendors range from "as-is, to 30 days, to 60 days, to 90 days, to 6 months, to the typical 1 year 12k repair warranty, but those suppliers are fresh out of 3.0T Audi motors.

New motor order = 4-weeks from Germany assuming the boat doesn't get lost in the Bermuda triangle or stuck at the Port waiting in line.

Tough situation.

From my pov I'm not sure I'd pour more money into that car, but I realize the loses are big.

Just my 2 cents, but I might get a new car of a different brand.

In any case, hang in there. At least it's just a material thing.

corvette

qbrozen said:

I hope anyone still considering an Audi has learned a lesson here.

28firefighter

@breld said:
Well, on that note, my wife officially decided to not go with the A4 Allroad on order.

After driving that MINI and 3-series back to back Monday evening, it was clear she liked what the 3-series has to offer. After looking at incoming inventory, she decided on a 2022 Mineral Gray 330i (xdrive) with black sensatec interior, M Sport, extended Shadowline, Premium package, Driver Assistance and power tailgate.

The attractive thing is, since it’s an early 2022, she’s still getting some features that are now being deleted on new builds, like the head-up display, parking assistance and SiriusXM.

They discounted the BMW $3,000 and gave us $60k for the Tesla. She’s really excited for the swap - she’s scheduled to get it on Saturday.

I guess offering you $50k for the Tesla won’t get it done. Hahahaha.

explorerx4

Has Tesla started using GAAP accounting?

benjaminh

I was probably always too practical to own an Audi, but like Mercedes and BMW it was one of the brands I admired for their designs. But hearing about an Audi engine destroying itself at 43,000 miles is a shock. I'm still wondering where the engineering flaw and/or manufacturing defect might have been. ICE engines are so complicated these days that I suppose it's amazing that most of them work as well as they do.

qbrozen

@breld said:
Well, on that note, my wife officially decided to not go with the A4 Allroad on order.

After driving that MINI and 3-series back to back Monday evening, it was clear she liked what the 3-series has to offer. After looking at incoming inventory, she decided on a 2022 Mineral Gray 330i (xdrive) with black sensatec interior, M Sport, extended Shadowline, Premium package, Driver Assistance and power tailgate.

The attractive thing is, since it’s an early 2022, she’s still getting some features that are now being deleted on new builds, like the head-up display, parking assistance and SiriusXM.

They discounted the BMW $3,000 and gave us $60k for the Tesla. She’s really excited for the swap - she’s scheduled to get it on Saturday.

Too soon to count out the Allroad. She’ll tire of the sedan long before it arrives. Unfortunately, you’ll likely take a hit on the bimmer when you trade it so soon.

stickguy

my son loves him. But it is a lease. and while he has mentioned a few times maybe buying it out at the end (still in that early infatuation stage) I will strongly push him to consider a different option at lease end.

stickguy

qbrozen said:

@breld said:

Well, on that note, my wife officially decided to not go with the A4 Allroad on order.

After driving that MINI and 3-series back to back Monday evening, it was clear she liked what the 3-series has to offer. After looking at incoming inventory, she decided on a 2022 Mineral Gray 330i (xdrive) with black sensatec interior, M Sport, extended Shadowline, Premium package, Driver Assistance and power tailgate.

The attractive thing is, since it’s an early 2022, she’s still getting some features that are now being deleted on new builds, like the head-up display, parking assistance and SiriusXM.

They discounted the BMW $3,000 and gave us $60k for the Tesla. She’s really excited for the swap - she’s scheduled to get it on Saturday.

Too soon to count out the Allroad. She’ll tire of the sedan long before it arrives. Unfortunately, you’ll likely take a hit on the bimmer when you trade it so soon.

I'll give him $40k for it.

Michaell

stickguy said:

qbrozen said:

@breld said:

Well, on that note, my wife officially decided to not go with the A4 Allroad on order.

After driving that MINI and 3-series back to back Monday evening, it was clear she liked what the 3-series has to offer. After looking at incoming inventory, she decided on a 2022 Mineral Gray 330i (xdrive) with black sensatec interior, M Sport, extended Shadowline, Premium package, Driver Assistance and power tailgate.

The attractive thing is, since it’s an early 2022, she’s still getting some features that are now being deleted on new builds, like the head-up display, parking assistance and SiriusXM.

They discounted the BMW $3,000 and gave us $60k for the Tesla. She’s really excited for the swap - she’s scheduled to get it on Saturday.

Too soon to count out the Allroad. She’ll tire of the sedan long before it arrives. Unfortunately, you’ll likely take a hit on the bimmer when you trade it so soon.

I'll give him $40k for it.

Nah, it’ll be worth more as it will have options on it that you can’t get on a new one..

benjaminh

In this recent video this mechanic disassembles a failed Audi 3.0 engine. The video has some annoying music/effects/zooms, but starting at 6:15 he explains what he believes is the cause, which was a failed catalytic converter. He says this is a common problem with these engines. Once things aren't flowing through the engine, if I'm understanding correctly, the high pressure backup causes a cascade effect that can suddenly destroy a lot of stuff in the engine.

In two other videos I've seen of teardowns of failed 2.0 Audi engines the weak point was the breakage of the timing chain tensioner, which has also been identified as a common problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK8Jq9ksCfM&t=449s

Here are a few of the comments on the video....

"This is the very first time I've heard of a stuck catalytic convertor fail on these engines yet I'm sure you said it was a common issue? Can you confirm? Also a first seeing one of these engines fail, not a pretty sight!

VAG Technic
1 month ago
Yes , everyone is putting dedicated pipes on Ideal have a look at the footage , unfortunately the lambda is placed in the middle

Shane H
1 month ago (edited)
Cat failures are common due to the heat produced.. most people usually install Test Pipes before this happens as they tune them, or like in the vid, gut the cats and reweld them as they sound terrible with no cats, and pop some cats near the resonators....

It's very common, as evidenced by any forum/group related to the 3.0t engine. Even HJS cats have failed in this location. Downstream relocation or complete cat delete is the only legit answer.

Wes Hinchcliffe
1 month ago
@VAG Technic What is it about the o2 sensor's location that you think is making the cats fail? The theory that seems to get the most support is simply EGTs in that location are beyond what they can handle. Even aftermarket HJS converters have failed when installed in that location. It's great for getting them up to temp quickly, but it's just too close to the engine for frequent hard driving and aggressive pulley ratios, etc."

stickguy

Much easier to pull and check the cats than the engine at least.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

I hope anyone still considering an Audi has learned a lesson here.

I've always been skeptical of Audi/VW products. I know there are a lot of people "out there" who buy, drive, & love them. I just know way too many stories in my circle to ever justify owning one. @andres3 Blown S4 engine, @breld failed clutch slave cylinder, my best friend's 2002 A4 that was in for service 40 times over the course of a 39 month lease, my sister's 2000 VR6 Jetta that needed a new transmission after 3 weeks, the faulty coil packs from the factory, then the replacements failed as well...

stickguy

The ones in my family never had any real issues. But that was 2 mid-2010s Jetta leases, a 3 year ownership of a 2019 (that was perfect over 40k miles), 2 years on an A3 (no issues) and 7 months on an S4 lease. Nothing from older, really problematic, generations.

sda

Based on previous experience with VW/Audi I was hesitant when we bought the Q5. It had been almost 10 years since I sold the troublesome 06 Passat. The oil burning and time chain issue supposedly has been resolved on the 2.0t. I bought a comprehensive extended warranty on the Q5 to 105k, and the Passat is CP0 to 84k or 8/25. Both have been great so far. They will get a quick boot if they show their behind.

kyfdx

@breld 's old GTI is perfect!

laurasdada

7+ months, 5600 miles and no Audi A7e issues so far. Well, beyond the bloody fingerprints on the main screen! Thank goodness for the designer Audi screen wipe included in the "We know the fingerprints will drive you nuts, so for only $300 we'll rip you off with the interior protection package, Laurasdada" option. It works hard for my money.

Spent a couple of free nights at Mohegan Sun casino, free tank of electricity. Met assorted oddities of people (likely same said of me) including one healthy looking, broadly smiling couple who have been retired now eight years. He said they've never been more active. And I continue to toil for The Man.

Why do I enjoy that place so?

jmonroe1

@kyfdx said:
@breld 's old GTI is perfect!

OLD for @breld? What does that really mean?

jmonroe

kyfdx

jmonroe1 said:

@kyfdx said:
@breld 's old GTI is perfect!

OLD for @breld? What does that really mean?

jmonroe

He used to own it.. now, I do.

jmonroe1

@kyfdx said:
He used to own it.. now, I do.

That doesn’t count.

jmonroe

qbrozen

From what I have seen and experienced, VWs are generally less troublesome than Audis. And, of course, as would stand to reason, the lower-end Audis follow the VWs more closely. So a FWD A3 2.0T has similar reliability to a GTI. That kind of thing.

breld

To be fair, I'm quite sure there are some horror stories out there of blown engines and catastrophic failures with a BMW, but this experience from @andres3 does hit closer to home for all of us who participate on this forum.

So are Audis really more prone to failure than the other German brands? That's a sincere question.

28firefighter

I have no basis for my opinion other than I just don't see as many old Audis floating around as I do the other brands...

tifighter

If we're doing Audi day today, let's kick it off with an old classic-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqJDuZIcQ34

au1994

breld said:

Well, on that note, my wife officially decided to not go with the A4 Allroad on order.

After driving that MINI and 3-series back to back Monday evening, it was clear she liked what the 3-series has to offer. After looking at incoming inventory, she decided on a 2022 Mineral Gray 330i (xdrive) with black sensatec interior, M Sport, extended Shadowline, Premium package, Driver Assistance and power tailgate.

The attractive thing is, since it’s an early 2022, she’s still getting some features that are now being deleted on new builds, like the head-up display, parking assistance and SiriusXM.

They discounted the BMW $3,000 and gave us $60k for the Tesla. She’s really excited for the swap - she’s scheduled to get it on Saturday.

Congrats! That sounds like a good combo and can’t wait to hear some impressions a few miles down the road. Unless the sticker was previously marked up, 3k off is not shabby here in crazy times.

au1994

tifighter said:

If we're doing Audi day today, let's kick it off with an old classic-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqJDuZIcQ34

That’s definitely the hardest I’ve laughed today.

stickguy

au1994 said:

breld said:

Well, on that note, my wife officially decided to not go with the A4 Allroad on order.

After driving that MINI and 3-series back to back Monday evening, it was clear she liked what the 3-series has to offer. After looking at incoming inventory, she decided on a 2022 Mineral Gray 330i (xdrive) with black sensatec interior, M Sport, extended Shadowline, Premium package, Driver Assistance and power tailgate.

The attractive thing is, since it’s an early 2022, she’s still getting some features that are now being deleted on new builds, like the head-up display, parking assistance and SiriusXM.

They discounted the BMW $3,000 and gave us $60k for the Tesla. She’s really excited for the swap - she’s scheduled to get it on Saturday.

Congrats! That sounds like a good combo and can’t wait to hear some impressions a few miles down the road. Unless the sticker was previously marked up, 3k off is not shabby here in crazy times.

Even cheaper considering the profit on the Tesla.

Strange times we live in.

au1994

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://www.walmart.com/ip/Back-to-the-Future-2-Mr-Fusion-Prop-Replica/472148870&psig=AOvVaw0PbZ78DVaqgb7QrXP7l0E8&ust=1635527481473000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCKjx1ebM7fMCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAJ

My Mr Fusion is on the fritz or I’d go back 24 months, drain the IRA and buy everything I could get my hands on.

breld

au1994 said:

breld said:

Well, on that note, my wife officially decided to not go with the A4 Allroad on order.

After driving that MINI and 3-series back to back Monday evening, it was clear she liked what the 3-series has to offer. After looking at incoming inventory, she decided on a 2022 Mineral Gray 330i (xdrive) with black sensatec interior, M Sport, extended Shadowline, Premium package, Driver Assistance and power tailgate.

The attractive thing is, since it’s an early 2022, she’s still getting some features that are now being deleted on new builds, like the head-up display, parking assistance and SiriusXM.

They discounted the BMW $3,000 and gave us $60k for the Tesla. She’s really excited for the swap - she’s scheduled to get it on Saturday.

Congrats! That sounds like a good combo and can’t wait to hear some impressions a few miles down the road. Unless the sticker was previously marked up, 3k off is not shabby here in crazy times.

Thanks! I was pleasantly surprised that they were offering a $1,500 dealer discount off MSRP on top of a $1,000 BMW incentive and another $500 for BMW loyalty; and no additional dealer handling charges or the like. I spoke with another local dealer and their no-haggle price was simply MSRP (though I assume dealer rebates would be honored).

It seems to me that the BMW dealers in particular are using the current environment to adopt a model going forward of special orders with nominal discounts.

qbrozen

@breld said:
To be fair, I'm quite sure there are some horror stories out there of blown engines and catastrophic failures with a BMW, but this experience from @andres3 does hit closer to home for all of us who participate on this forum.

So are Audis really more prone to failure than the other German brands? That's a sincere question.

Just depends. They have all had their duds, especially the higher performance models. See any v12 bimmer or benz for proof. However, I don’t believe there is any 6-cyl Audi I would trust over a 6-cyl from the others.

au1994

BMW V12’s, BMW V8’s even the HPFP issue on the I6. I’ve always said owning a high end German make out of warranty is not for the feint of heart. They are definitely not a 22r Toyota that goes 300k on oil changes alone.

benjaminh

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/10/28/used-car-prices-chip-shortage/

"How crazy is the used car market? This auction sparked a bidding war over a two-year-old minivan.
By Jeanne Whalen
Today at 8:00 a.m. EDT|Updated today at 10:45 a.m. EDT
LAWRENCEVILLE, N.J. — The 2019 Honda Civic that kicked off a used-car auction earlier this month would have been nothing special before the pandemic. But as automotive dealer Brad Wimmer watched, the online bidding quickly became, to quote him, “bananas.” As a new car, the Civic would have had a sticker price of around $21,000. But within seconds at the wholesale auction, the two-year-old model, with 4,000 miles, sold for $27,200. Soon after, a Nissan Rogue fetched what it would have cost new in 2018....."

Michaell

au1994 said:

BMW V12’s, BMW V8’s even the HPFP issue on the I6. I’ve always said owning a high end German make out of warranty is not for the feint of heart. They are definitely not a 22r Toyota that goes 300k on oil changes alone.

@roadburner has entered the chat

stickguy

I love watching the car ninja tear into some of those.

mjfloyd1

@breld said:
Well, on that note, my wife officially decided to not go with the A4 Allroad on order.

After driving that MINI and 3-series back to back Monday evening, it was clear she liked what the 3-series has to offer. After looking at incoming inventory, she decided on a 2022 Mineral Gray 330i (xdrive) with black sensatec interior, M Sport, extended Shadowline, Premium package, Driver Assistance and power tailgate.

The attractive thing is, since it’s an early 2022, she’s still getting some features that are now being deleted on new builds, like the head-up display, parking assistance and SiriusXM.

They discounted the BMW $3,000 and gave us $60k for the Tesla. She’s really excited for the swap - she’s scheduled to get it on Saturday.

Automatic or manual transmission?

I see a 340 in your near future

Michaell

mjfloyd1 said:

@breld said:

Well, on that note, my wife officially decided to not go with the A4 Allroad on order.

After driving that MINI and 3-series back to back Monday evening, it was clear she liked what the 3-series has to offer. After looking at incoming inventory, she decided on a 2022 Mineral Gray 330i (xdrive) with black sensatec interior, M Sport, extended Shadowline, Premium package, Driver Assistance and power tailgate.

The attractive thing is, since it’s an early 2022, she’s still getting some features that are now being deleted on new builds, like the head-up display, parking assistance and SiriusXM.

They discounted the BMW $3,000 and gave us $60k for the Tesla. She’s really excited for the swap - she’s scheduled to get it on Saturday.

Automatic or manual transmission?

I see a 340 in your near future

Surprisingly, the lovely Mrs. @breld is not addicted to HP.

Remember, she's trading a Telsa for the 330. And, she had a MINI JCW before that.

breld

She actually test drove a 2020 M340i with about 18k miles earlier in the week. She definitely liked the feel and sound of the engine, but at the end of the day, it seemed she liked it more because what other people (myself included) may think about it, rather than what she valued.

She was clearly more excited about getting the new 330i. For that matter, this started with her driving a used 2019 330i, but that was missing at least one feature she wanted, and as you all know, the discounts for going used just aren't very compelling.

qbrozen

yeah, I REALLY don't understand swapping a Tesla for a 330.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

yeah, I REALLY don't understand swapping a Tesla for a 330.

+1

carnaught

qbrozen said:

yeah, I REALLY don't understand swapping a Tesla for a 330.

What’s hard to understand? They’re different.

You @qbrozen should know - you are the CCBA Grand Poobah Lite.

breld

Man, @28firefighter gets a Tesla and all of a sudden the board prefers a Tesla over a BMW 3-series?

breld

Y'all seem to forget, the Tesla was never meant to be a keeper...we chose the Polestar 2 over it as an EV, and never intended to have two EVs (not that there's anything wrong with that).

But...seeing how the market was going, we kept the order for the Model Y and decided to pull the trigger to turn a profit. Not breaking any new ground here. Doing so created a nice hefty down payment on a 3-series, which my wife actually test drove earlier in the summer as a MINI replacement.

breld

carnaught said:

qbrozen said:

yeah, I REALLY don't understand swapping a Tesla for a 330.

What’s hard to understand? They’re different.

You @qbrozen should know - you are the CCBA Grand Poobah Lite.

Corrected.

roadburner

I've never been a big fan of the BMW V motors, although the original M70 V12 was pretty stout. I also could be talked into a S62 equipped M5 or an S65 M3. The newer twin turbo V8s are definitely problematic past around 100k miles. The turbo I4 and I6 motors don't worry me at all.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

yeah, I REALLY don't understand swapping a Tesla for a 330.

I've only had about 10 minutes of seat time in the Model 3 @jpp75 owned, and I did have a chance to drive the Polestar 2. No specific test drives of a 3 series, but I've ridden in various Audi's and BMW's that @breld has had in his fleet.

To me (and, this is 1 man's opinion), the Tesla, while fast, comes off as a bit sterile of a driving experience. There isn't any real feel of luxury in the materials, or the driving experience. I preferred the Polestar, as it felt more like a luxury brand (which it is, being associated with Volvo).

I completely understand wanting to swap out the Y for a 3-series. Lots of new EV's coming to market over the next few years, so the "uniqueness" of the Tesla will pale, I suspect.

andres3

qbrozen said:

I hope anyone still considering an Audi has learned a lesson here.

Buy new and properly break in and maintain the engine yourself????

qbrozen

I’m not saying I like the Tesla, mind you. But my 330 was not exactly a thrill ride, either. I could see a Tesla for a 440.

andres3

I do have 108K + 48.5K + 51K (and climbing on this last figure) of flawless Audi engine use when buying new and doing proper break-in/maintenance myself. That's over 200K miles. But the TTS will tell the true story I think; it's the wild card and will sway the judgment one way or the other.

Knocking on wood it gets me to 100+ without sweating.

Of course, I know my blaming of "buying used" could be completely misguided, but then again, I realize it could also be the problem.

On a side note the Wife's Tiguan has that super long 2019 VW warranty.

xwesx

Well, here's another check mark for Audi (or against, depending on your scorekeeping method):

Blackstone processed the oil samples I sent in (two from this year and one from last, which I thought I lost for a time), and they are fairly certain that I have a measurable amount of coolant contamination in the oil. Based on some reading, I think that the issue is likely to be a failure in the cooling line for the EGR.

Ironically, my EGR is clearly failing because it set codes repeatedly during my journey last month, so replacing for that issue would largely solve my coolant issue at the same time. However, I don't think I'm going to Audi about it because:

1. I'll have to fight with them about the 120K limit on the TDI warranty even though their dealer network recorded the issue prior to 120K.
2. I have no confidence in the quality of the Anchorage Audi dealer's work after their repeated shop failures in the past.

At this point, I feel much more confident in myself to fix these issues, even though I will have to pay for the parts and put the time in, than I do with the headache Audi will cause. I'm still debating whether to pull the engine and replace the rear main seal at the same time or just focus on the immediate coolant issue (since it doesn't actually involve pulling the engine). All told, I'm probably looking at around $400 in parts.

The good news on this is that the issue has been ongoing for quite some time (and I foolishly chose to ignore it earlier), so I don't think it is a terminal problem in the short term. I should be able to schedule it into next summer.

andres3

xwesx said:

Well, here's another check mark for Audi (or against, depending on your scorekeeping method):

Blackstone processed the oil samples I sent in (two from this year and one from last, which I thought I lost for a time), and they are fairly certain that I have a measurable amount of coolant contamination in the oil. Based on some reading, I think that the issue is likely to be a failure in the cooling line for the EGR.

Ironically, my EGR is clearly failing because it set codes repeatedly during my journey last month, so replacing for that issue would largely solve my coolant issue at the same time. However, I don't think I'm going to Audi about it because:

1. I'll have to fight with them about the 120K limit on the TDI warranty even though their dealer network recorded the issue prior to 120K.
2. I have no confidence in the quality of the Anchorage Audi dealer's work after their repeated shop failures in the past.

At this point, I feel much more confident in myself to fix these issues, even though I will have to pay for the parts and put the time in, than I do with the headache Audi will cause. I'm still debating whether to pull the engine and replace the rear main seal at the same time or just focus on the immediate coolant issue (since it doesn't actually involve pulling the engine). All told, I'm probably looking at around $400 in parts.

The good news on this is that the issue has been ongoing for quite some time (and I foolishly chose to ignore it earlier), so I don't think it is a terminal problem in the short term. I should be able to schedule it into next summer.

If I had your ability, tool-selection (assumed), and know-how to operate under the "If you want it done right, do it yourself" saying, there's a reason for that saying! I'd do it myself too!

xwesx

andres3 said:

If I had your ability, tool-selection (assumed), and know-how to operate under the "If you want it done right, do it yourself" saying, there's a reason for that saying! I'd do it myself too!

Hahaha; for as long as I've been doing repairs and maintenance on cars, I would think my tool selection is broad enough to cover pretty much every new job. Truth is, though, I don't think there's any "new" jobs I do where I don't end up having to buy some sort of specialized doodad to get the job done. Some are cheap and some are heart-stopping-ly expensive.