Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

qbrozen

I texted and emailed the dealer with the ‘11 S in the early afternoon, but no response to either.

28firefighter

No clue. I’m figuring 3 months.

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

No clue. I’m figuring 3 months.

Let me know how those numbers work out.

roadburner

@stickguy said:
It is basically the convertible version of Roadburners red Ti. Perfectly powerful enough. Zero need for the bigger 6 cyl when you have the manual trans.

Precisely. The M42(1.8) and M44(1.9) motors were designed to be driven in classic European fashion- wound out past 4,500 rpm to make usable power. Treated in that fashion they are an absolute hoot. Short shift them like a big block V8 and they are underwhelming. The manual is what used to be called a “close ratio” transmission as it’s a five speed where fifth is direct- 1:1. The motor happily spins away at 4,000 rpm at 80 mph.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

OK, this is kind of nuts.
My Explorer has trailer tow and crossbars, which this one does not.
I'm at just about half the miles plus doesn't have 2 minor accidents on Carfax.
Also, I paid less unless you add taxes and fees.
https://www.familyfordinc.net/used/Ford/2020-Ford-Explorer-ab1719ef0a0e09af63592c3ce32400f9.htm

Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

28firefighter

@kyfdx said:
Let me know how those numbers work out.

Based on today’s rates I’d be at sign and drive $503 at sign and $503 a month including tax and tags for WA before shipping. If I did a one pay it’d drop to $408 including tax, but before shipping. That’s on a $66k rubicon.

It’s a bit more than now but I’d be clearing $10k plus profit on the Jeep.

roadburner

Any more takers on the wait time for an ordered Bronco? By the way, this dealer's latest ad campaign points out that you can order a car just the way YOU want it!!!

28firefighter

@roadburner said:
Any more takers on the wait time for an ordered Bronco? By the way, this dealer's latest ad campaign points out that you can order a car just the way YOU want it!!!

Depending on what I think it’s gotta be 9-12 months.

stickguy

depends on trim and options. If you order a low option base or big bend, could be fairly quick. If you want a color matched hardtop sasquatch, could be a long, long time

From following the Maverick, different dealers can give a big difference. But I would ballpark 6 months.

better than a Hybrid Maverick. You won't even be able to order one of those to IIRC next August. I ordered mine 10/30 I think, and am not expecting that until maybe Memorial day. My Ecoboost though took about 3.5 months from order to delivery (and probably would still be waiting if I had not forgotten to add the spray in bedliner to the order!)

stickguy

and the order process is actually nice for people that are particular about what they get. Just not when there is still way more demand compared to capacity, and varying features constraints. It is an artform right now to know what they are scheduling, and not order the wrong feature (unless you have to have it, and it can't be done as an accessory). On the Mav, they ran into capacity issues with the spray in, so only something like 3% of orders with that are getting scheduled. Tonneau covers have been the same issue. So to get picked for a build date, buyers are dropping those and doing after it arrives (I did that with the cover).

but if the market and parts supplies stabilize, it is actually a good system Ford has. Go to the site, build and configure exactly what you want, then can shop the order to different dealers to get the price you want, then have them submit it. You get an email from Ford, then just wait for them to select it to build. Before the current constraints, it only took 3-6 weeks to get a car depending on what it was and where built.

roadburner

The correct answer is NINE months! My wife thought the guy actually didn't know or else wanted to steer me to the Broncos that were already on the ground. When I worked at BMW and I didn't know the answer to a customer's question I told them that I would find out the answer- I didn't just pull a crazy response out of my *ss.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised; this is the dealer with the parts department that responded to my email inquiry that they had several quarts of the transaxle oil I wanted in stock. When I showed up the parts guy told me that they didn't have any in stock and that I should have called- because "the emails are always wrong."
So as before, Kings Ford in Cincinnati remains the only Ford dealer that I've dealt with that didn't go out of their way to p*ss me off- although Tasca Ford does have an exceptional parts department, so there's that.

stickguy

speaking of Mavericks, I was poking around on Rodo yesterday looking for the unicorn (these days) good deal. Did not find it. But they did have a model close to mine (same trim and FWD, a few less options). On the finance side, they list MSRP and sales price.

their sales offer was $3,600ish above sticker. Which means almost $5,500 more than I paid for mine factoring in how much below sticker I got it for (with no tacked on gimmick accessories). If the car market even stays relatively flat it is going to be a long time before I am not above the original water line on this one!

now just need my bedliner (it unnerves me to see all that shiny sheet metal in the bed) and for my nice low profile cover to come in. At least the cover was at a nice discount too using the forum contact, and can be transferred to a new truck if I get one. Since it was cheaper than I expected I upgraded to the ultra low profile fabric (instead of vinyl) version.

https://truxedo.com/pro-x15/2022/ford/maverick

stickguy

and 9 months is entirely possible depending on the packages you want. they started out with a huge surplus of orders. also sounds like you could cross over into the next model year (or might as well at that point).

I sat in a couple at the dealer. It seem huge. I actually looked up the specs and couldn't believe it was almost the same dimensions as a Wrangler. It just felt much bigger. Probably for being jacked up, and having such a big, extended hood.

roadburner

stickguy said:

and 9 months is entirely possible depending on the packages you want. they started out with a huge surplus of orders. also sounds like you could cross over into the next model year (or might as well at that point).

It doesn't matter; if we decide to replace the X1 and TJ with one off-road vehicle it will definitely be a JL Wrangler- most likely a fully optioned 2 door Willys.

28firefighter

9 months. Excellent custom order process setup they have there.

explorerx4

@roadburner,
I watched a YT video of a guy getting his Rivian. He said he put in his reservation 3 years ago.
Try a Bronco(6g) specific forum to see what they have to say there.
I'm not doing your homework for you.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

@roadburner,
I watched a YT video of a guy getting his Rivian. He said he put in his reservation 3 years ago.
Try a Bronco(6g) specific forum to see what they have to say there.
I'm not doing your homework for you.

As I said, not a concern- just a humorous aside. I'm going with a JL.

roadburner

28firefighter said:

9 months. Excellent custom order process setup they have there.

When I worked at BMW we could order an X3/4/5/6 from BMW Manufacturing in less than three weeks- assuming no BMW Individual(pricey paint/upholstery) options were specified.
I don't know what the situation is now.

explorerx4

@roadburner,
I guess you didn't pick up that I did do the homework for you.

stickguy

28firefighter said:

9 months. Excellent custom order process setup they have there.

well, you don't have to order one. Just wander down to the Ford dealer Monday and bring one home. Just don't complain about how it is equipped. Or the price!

double edge sword of building some new vehicles that are super popular. Just can't keep up with demand out of 1 factory. the Bronco was probably expected to be more of a niche product. So either you get on the list and wait, or they stop taking orders and tell you that you are on your own.

corvette

stickguy said:

better than a Hybrid Maverick. You won't even be able to order one of those to IIRC next August.

I think the dealer in Horsham is willing to put you on a waiting list to be one of the first to order a 2023 Hybrid when ordering opens. Most dealers aren't doing that. I'm wondering whether they will offer an AWD hybrid in 2023.

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

@kyfdx said:

Let me know how those numbers work out.

Based on today’s rates I’d be at sign and drive $503 at sign and $503 a month including tax and tags for WA before shipping. If I did a one pay it’d drop to $408 including tax, but before shipping. That’s on a $66k rubicon.

It’s a bit more than now but I’d be clearing $10k plus profit on the Jeep.

$408 X 36 = $14,700? My tax rate is only 6%, so about $575 less for me. Cheap!

Of course, if I’m flipping it, I don’t want to prepay finance charges. I’d just worry about CCAP changing their 3rd party rules.

stickguy

aren't they one of the few still allowing flips like that?

at least buying my truck, no worries if I ever want to do something with it.

stickguy

corvette said:

stickguy said:

better than a Hybrid Maverick. You won't even be able to order one of those to IIRC next August.

I think the dealer in Horsham is willing to put you on a waiting list to be one of the first to order a 2023 Hybrid when ordering opens. Most dealers aren't doing that. I'm wondering whether they will offer an AWD hybrid in 2023.

same dealer I got my through. Just a different branch. I have not seen anything about AWD. Might arrive someday, but I doubt they are in any hurry considering they can't come close to building the hybrid orders they already have (or that wanted to get in). and the vast majority of buyers seem perfectly fine with the FWD.

I suppose they could spec out the early orders when 2023 opens and just have somebody start entering the second it opens, first comes first serves. I have no clue if they enter them individually or can queue them all up though.

maybe an AWD plug in hybrid as a performance model like a Tremor? That could be interesting!

corvette

stickguy said:

I have not seen anything about AWD. Might arrive someday, but I doubt they are in any hurry considering they can't come close to building the hybrid orders they already have (or that wanted to get in). and the vast majority of buyers seem perfectly fine with the FWD.

There was speculation that it would be easy to offer AWD in the hybrid, but if they're selling all they can make in FWD form, there's probably no incentive to. I doubt Ford will release the 2023 model specs / order guide until later this year.

stickguy

2023 orders go live in August. Not sure how far in advance they release it. And they have the components since I think the Escape Hybrid offers AWD. May be some packaging differences with the truck of course. Or, they looked at it all along as the cheapo special option!

sb55

xwesx said:

sb55 said:

explorerx4 said:

After clearing the 10 or inches of snow we got, I feel great.
The air is clear and crisp and it felt good to get the old bones moving.

For us old Northerners, who else saw the new "data" that men over 45 shouldn't shovel snow!
Does that mean that our SO's do it, or that we hibernate until it melts? I'm over medicare age (67 this month) and I still plow my own 1/4 mile long driveway and have to shovel walkways and when it drifts in where the plow doesn't reach. I think that it's exercise, not a trip to the hospital!

No, that's just an excuse to buy a snowthrower.

You know you want one....!

@xwesx_
I have one. And a little Kubota with a plow and a shovel. It sometimes takes all 3 to get it done. I only live 20 miles south of Canada and it does snow up here

benjaminh

For the last few days my local Acura dealer hasn't had any new vehicles in stock. Things are pretty bad out there. And just six months ago some were predicting things might get better by January.

kyfdx

Speaking of the Toyobaru twins: Not a single one in stock in Greater Cincinnati, not even automatics

mjfloyd1

Well, I see brokers advertising X3m40i orders at 5% off MSRP and m340 at 6% off MSRP. Sadly I’d be better off paying MSRP plus $1100 mop and glow because I live in a state where you only pay sales tax on the difference so a trade in makes the most sense vs selling to vroom and ordering.

Must resist. I don’t think looking at videos is helping me to resist.

ab348

The lack of inventory of new vehicles is puzzling. There were numerous news reports before the end of 2021 that plants were starting up again and beginning to produce vehicles. So where are they going? If a production line is turning out 40 or 50 vehicles an hour as is typical, that means 300-400 per 8-hour shift, obviously more than that if running 2 shifts. At that rate it would not take very long to build many thousands, times however many plants are running.

I'm considering only NA production here, as I understand Asian makes are hung up because of delays in ports at either end of the chain.

mjfloyd1

May be similar in NA because of chip shortage and chips may be sitting on ships at NA ports.

When I drive by factories in IN and KY, I see lots of vehicles sitting outside and am told they are complete except for the parts needing chips- I assume ECU and TCU.

stickguy

there was a back-up of demand. In the fall I stopped at the Toyota dealer to look at Tacomas and had a nice chat with the sales dude. They did not have any on the lot available in stock, but had a somewhat steady supply coming in. They were all just being spoken for in advance.

so best to just go to the dealer, make a contact, and have them show you the incoming pipeline, and claim one. Unless you can wait a lot longer to custom order something, probably the most effective way to get something reasonably soon.

I think Ford produced about 6,000 Mavericks the last few months (Nov-Dec), but all 12,000 were customer orders. So when I showed up to get mine, there were actually 4 new ones in front of the building. But none of them actually available, or showing in their inventory list (and I think all were being delivered NYE).

actually sounds more like the European model, where the majority of cars are ordered, and dealers maintain very little inventory.

stickguy

mjfloyd1 said:

May be similar in NA because of chip shortage and chips may be sitting on ships at NA ports.

When I drive by factories in IN and KY, I see lots of vehicles sitting outside and am told they are complete except for the parts needing chips- I assume ECU and TCU.

Need to unmothball some of the many US site chip fabs to get these old school chips going. Probably something that should be a public-private partnership considering how much of a national interest (security and economic) they are at this point.

tjc78

Anyone need a truck?

https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdMmk5hh/

sda

benjaminh said:

For the last few days my local Acura dealer hasn't had any new vehicles in stock. Things are pretty bad out there. And just six months ago some were predicting things might get better by January.

Wow! I’ve noticed many dealers with only a handful of inventory, but no inventory, ouch. I’ve also noticed that a dealer will show they have new inventory only to find that vehicle is in transit. Misleading.

explorerx4

Drove by the local Toyota dealer this morning. Saw 1 new Tacoma, that's it.

oldfarmer50

mjfloyd1 said:

May be similar in NA because of chip shortage and chips may be sitting on ships at NA ports.

When I drive by factories in IN and KY, I see lots of vehicles sitting outside and am told they are complete except for the parts needing chips- I assume ECU and TCU.

I would assume that chips in high demand would be air freighted rather than delivered by ship but never underestimate the dumb moves of the bean counters.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

mjfloyd1 said:

May be similar in NA because of chip shortage and chips may be sitting on ships at NA ports.

When I drive by factories in IN and KY, I see lots of vehicles sitting outside and am told they are complete except for the parts needing chips- I assume ECU and TCU.

Need to unmothball some of the many US site chip fabs to get these old school chips going. Probably something that should be a public-private partnership considering how much of a national interest (security and economic) they are at this point.

I agree but it may go deeper than that. I’ve read that auto makers could have resolved this problem by redesigning their systems long ago to use fewer more advanced chips to perform many functions that they now use multiple obsolete chips. For whatever reason they resisted doing this and now find themselves between a rock and a hard place.

You would think government would try to solve this problem but that would take initiative that government seldom possess.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

Anyone need a truck?

https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdMmk5hh/

I scrolled down after looking at that truck…..man am I glad I don’t use social media.

Michaell

The Subaru dealer where we got the Outback has 38 new cars on their website.

Don't know how many of them are "in transit".

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

You would think government would try to solve this problem but that would take initiative that government seldom possess.

Having worked most of my career in govt, that line makes me laugh. Govt solves far fewer problems than it creates.

One example (anecdotally, as it was just something I read online recently) was that the bottlenecks at west coast ports were caused in part by the state govt in California enacting some sort of draconian environmental law or regulation that greatly limited the number of diesel truck tractors that could service the docks. Ships were idling offshore waiting for their turn to offload cargo.

stickguy

dealers always showed in transit allocations as in stock. You just didn't tend to notice it as much when they also have acres of cars on the lot.

explorerx4

@ab348,
One of my kids is concerned with supply chain issues.
In CA, they are also tightening the emissions levels for trucks in 2025 but also going zero emissions in 2030. I'm going with what I recall of the conversation about it.
Companies don't want to buy trucks now that will be obsolete that soon into their lifecycle.

mjfloyd1

I’ve found the inspiration (well, half the inspiration) for the M3 and M4 grilles - Edsel

mjfloyd1

Make sure you read the comments just above the Edsel picture…

kyfdx

From what I've read:
2-3 years minimum and multiple billions of dollars to set up a chip fab factory. By the time you get it built, the overseas sources have caught up, and you have a money-loser, that can't compete on price.

If chips could be manufactured in a "normal" factory, they would already have it up and running, like they did with the ventilator shortage.

Michaell

stickguy said:

dealers always showed in transit allocations as in stock. You just didn't tend to notice it as much when they also have acres of cars on the lot.

That's what our Outback was, when we bought it. On the website, but waiting to be trucked in from the factory in Indiana.

Made a $500 deposit to reserve it, waited two weeks for it to arrive, then made the deal once it showed up.

Now that I think of it, the kids MINI was the same way - we had to wait for it to show up at the dealer from the port in CA (where I grew up, as it turns out).

roadburner

My wife suggested I trade both the 2er and the X1 in and buy a new X3 M40i, but I really don't want a CUV- although I could live with an X3 M Comp if I had to. One dealer has a nice loaded RWD M340i but again, no non ///M vehicles if I can help it.

28firefighter

Been watching a few reviews of the Elantra N. Biggest disappointment for me is the quality of interior materials. So much hard, scratchy plastic for such a cool car.