Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Michaell

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

Despite a couple of weeks of preparation my sex abuse case crashed and burned after four days of trial. I had conclusive DNA evidence and a young victim who was pretty compelling. The problem was the victim’s mother; the first time she met with the detective who was investigating the case she asked about hiring an attorney. The detective told her that she wasn’t a suspect. Her reply? “I heard on TV that if you have an attorney you get more money.” And of course she had found an attorney who filed a civil suit against the defendant- and the jury got to hear all of that.

The case hinged on whether the DNA evidence was left by the defendant or whether it was planted- and the defense attorney argued that the lawsuit was the motive for the mom and the victim to set the defendant up.

Even so, most of the courtroom watchers thought that I’d get a guilty verdict, but I did not. I don’t take losses personally, but it’s definitely frustrating to put a lot of time and effort into a case and wind up with nothing to show for it.

————————————————-
There should be a law that allows the prosecution to sue a jury that can be easily swayed resulting in delivering the wrong decision.

jmonroe

More trials clogging up our justice system?

————————————————
Should be more like sports in that instant replay and challenges can get it right.

jmonroe

And who, exactly, would provide the review?

We already have an appeals system in place.

Just trying to mess up a good thing.

jmonroe1

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

Despite a couple of weeks of preparation my sex abuse case crashed and burned after four days of trial. I had conclusive DNA evidence and a young victim who was pretty compelling. The problem was the victim’s mother; the first time she met with the detective who was investigating the case she asked about hiring an attorney. The detective told her that she wasn’t a suspect. Her reply? “I heard on TV that if you have an attorney you get more money.” And of course she had found an attorney who filed a civil suit against the defendant- and the jury got to hear all of that.

The case hinged on whether the DNA evidence was left by the defendant or whether it was planted- and the defense attorney argued that the lawsuit was the motive for the mom and the victim to set the defendant up.

Even so, most of the courtroom watchers thought that I’d get a guilty verdict, but I did not. I don’t take losses personally, but it’s definitely frustrating to put a lot of time and effort into a case and wind up with nothing to show for it.

————————————————-
There should be a law that allows the prosecution to sue a jury that can be easily swayed resulting in delivering the wrong decision.

jmonroe

More trials clogging up our justice system?

————————————————
Should be more like sports in that instant replay and challenges can get it right.

jmonroe

And who, exactly, would provide the review?

We already have an appeals system in place.

Just trying to mess up a good thing.

————————————————-
A panel of 3 or 5 judges.

Appeals are for the defense. Offense should be given equal rights.

jmonroe

Michaell

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

Despite a couple of weeks of preparation my sex abuse case crashed and burned after four days of trial. I had conclusive DNA evidence and a young victim who was pretty compelling. The problem was the victim’s mother; the first time she met with the detective who was investigating the case she asked about hiring an attorney. The detective told her that she wasn’t a suspect. Her reply? “I heard on TV that if you have an attorney you get more money.” And of course she had found an attorney who filed a civil suit against the defendant- and the jury got to hear all of that.

The case hinged on whether the DNA evidence was left by the defendant or whether it was planted- and the defense attorney argued that the lawsuit was the motive for the mom and the victim to set the defendant up.

Even so, most of the courtroom watchers thought that I’d get a guilty verdict, but I did not. I don’t take losses personally, but it’s definitely frustrating to put a lot of time and effort into a case and wind up with nothing to show for it.

————————————————-
There should be a law that allows the prosecution to sue a jury that can be easily swayed resulting in delivering the wrong decision.

jmonroe

More trials clogging up our justice system?

————————————————
Should be more like sports in that instant replay and challenges can get it right.

jmonroe

And who, exactly, would provide the review?

We already have an appeals system in place.

Just trying to mess up a good thing.

————————————————-
A panel of 3 or 5 judges.

Appeals are for the defense. Offense should be given equal rights.

jmonroe

Prosecution isn't allowed to appeal? Under any circumstances?

jmonroe1

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

Despite a couple of weeks of preparation my sex abuse case crashed and burned after four days of trial. I had conclusive DNA evidence and a young victim who was pretty compelling. The problem was the victim’s mother; the first time she met with the detective who was investigating the case she asked about hiring an attorney. The detective told her that she wasn’t a suspect. Her reply? “I heard on TV that if you have an attorney you get more money.” And of course she had found an attorney who filed a civil suit against the defendant- and the jury got to hear all of that.

The case hinged on whether the DNA evidence was left by the defendant or whether it was planted- and the defense attorney argued that the lawsuit was the motive for the mom and the victim to set the defendant up.

Even so, most of the courtroom watchers thought that I’d get a guilty verdict, but I did not. I don’t take losses personally, but it’s definitely frustrating to put a lot of time and effort into a case and wind up with nothing to show for it.

————————————————-
There should be a law that allows the prosecution to sue a jury that can be easily swayed resulting in delivering the wrong decision.

jmonroe

More trials clogging up our justice system?

————————————————
Should be more like sports in that instant replay and challenges can get it right.

jmonroe

And who, exactly, would provide the review?

We already have an appeals system in place.

Just trying to mess up a good thing.

————————————————-
A panel of 3 or 5 judges.

Appeals are for the defense. Offense should be given equal rights.

jmonroe

Prosecution isn't allowed to appeal? Under any circumstances?

————————————————
I know that but maybe it’s time for a change.

jmonroe

Michaell

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

Despite a couple of weeks of preparation my sex abuse case crashed and burned after four days of trial. I had conclusive DNA evidence and a young victim who was pretty compelling. The problem was the victim’s mother; the first time she met with the detective who was investigating the case she asked about hiring an attorney. The detective told her that she wasn’t a suspect. Her reply? “I heard on TV that if you have an attorney you get more money.” And of course she had found an attorney who filed a civil suit against the defendant- and the jury got to hear all of that.

The case hinged on whether the DNA evidence was left by the defendant or whether it was planted- and the defense attorney argued that the lawsuit was the motive for the mom and the victim to set the defendant up.

Even so, most of the courtroom watchers thought that I’d get a guilty verdict, but I did not. I don’t take losses personally, but it’s definitely frustrating to put a lot of time and effort into a case and wind up with nothing to show for it.

————————————————-
There should be a law that allows the prosecution to sue a jury that can be easily swayed resulting in delivering the wrong decision.

jmonroe

More trials clogging up our justice system?

————————————————
Should be more like sports in that instant replay and challenges can get it right.

jmonroe

And who, exactly, would provide the review?

We already have an appeals system in place.

Just trying to mess up a good thing.

————————————————-
A panel of 3 or 5 judges.

Appeals are for the defense. Offense should be given equal rights.

jmonroe

Prosecution isn't allowed to appeal? Under any circumstances?

————————————————
I know that but maybe it’s time for a change.

jmonroe

It was a question - hoping one of our legal buddies can respond.

roadburner

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

Despite a couple of weeks of preparation my sex abuse case crashed and burned after four days of trial. I had conclusive DNA evidence and a young victim who was pretty compelling. The problem was the victim’s mother; the first time she met with the detective who was investigating the case she asked about hiring an attorney. The detective told her that she wasn’t a suspect. Her reply? “I heard on TV that if you have an attorney you get more money.” And of course she had found an attorney who filed a civil suit against the defendant- and the jury got to hear all of that.

The case hinged on whether the DNA evidence was left by the defendant or whether it was planted- and the defense attorney argued that the lawsuit was the motive for the mom and the victim to set the defendant up.

Even so, most of the courtroom watchers thought that I’d get a guilty verdict, but I did not. I don’t take losses personally, but it’s definitely frustrating to put a lot of time and effort into a case and wind up with nothing to show for it.

————————————————-
There should be a law that allows the prosecution to sue a jury that can be easily swayed resulting in delivering the wrong decision.

jmonroe

More trials clogging up our justice system?

————————————————
Should be more like sports in that instant replay and challenges can get it right.

jmonroe

And who, exactly, would provide the review?

We already have an appeals system in place.

Just trying to mess up a good thing.

————————————————-
A panel of 3 or 5 judges.

Appeals are for the defense. Offense should be given equal rights.

jmonroe

Prosecution isn't allowed to appeal? Under any circumstances?

I can appeal pretrial court rulings in some cases. For example, I'm currently appealing a ruling where the judge suppressed the evidence found in a search.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

Despite a couple of weeks of preparation my sex abuse case crashed and burned after four days of trial. I had conclusive DNA evidence and a young victim who was pretty compelling. The problem was the victim’s mother; the first time she met with the detective who was investigating the case she asked about hiring an attorney. The detective told her that she wasn’t a suspect. Her reply? “I heard on TV that if you have an attorney you get more money.” And of course she had found an attorney who filed a civil suit against the defendant- and the jury got to hear all of that.

The case hinged on whether the DNA evidence was left by the defendant or whether it was planted- and the defense attorney argued that the lawsuit was the motive for the mom and the victim to set the defendant up.

Even so, most of the courtroom watchers thought that I’d get a guilty verdict, but I did not. I don’t take losses personally, but it’s definitely frustrating to put a lot of time and effort into a case and wind up with nothing to show for it.

————————————————-
There should be a law that allows the prosecution to sue a jury that can be easily swayed resulting in delivering the wrong decision.

jmonroe

corvette

I cleared the battery code on the Prius, and it drove normally other than having obvious signs of having a weak battery pack (charge level randomly dropping 2-3 bars when very little assist is called for).

henryn

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

Despite a couple of weeks of preparation my sex abuse case crashed and burned after four days of trial. I had conclusive DNA evidence and a young victim who was pretty compelling. The problem was the victim’s mother; the first time she met with the detective who was investigating the case she asked about hiring an attorney. The detective told her that she wasn’t a suspect. Her reply? “I heard on TV that if you have an attorney you get more money.” And of course she had found an attorney who filed a civil suit against the defendant- and the jury got to hear all of that.

The case hinged on whether the DNA evidence was left by the defendant or whether it was planted- and the defense attorney argued that the lawsuit was the motive for the mom and the victim to set the defendant up.

Even so, most of the courtroom watchers thought that I’d get a guilty verdict, but I did not. I don’t take losses personally, but it’s definitely frustrating to put a lot of time and effort into a case and wind up with nothing to show for it.

————————————————-
There should be a law that allows the prosecution to sue a jury that can be easily swayed resulting in delivering the wrong decision.

jmonroe

That would be a very very bad idea. It's already difficult getting people to show up for jury duty, what you're proposing here would make it impossible.

corvette

corvette said:

I cleared the battery code on the Prius, and it drove normally other than having obvious signs of having a weak battery pack (charge level randomly dropping 2-3 bars when very little assist is called for).

And as soon as I powered it off and on, the red triangle showed back up. The Dr. Prius app said something about pulling the battery power for five minutes to reset it, so maybe I was supposed to do that as well.

sda

More insane pricing from or friends at CarMax

breld

Wife and I had a fun epic day of car browsing yesterday. Cliff notes…

Looked at 2 used JCW Clubmans - I mean, a 300 hp BMWish wagon. What’s not to like?

Drove the iX again…may place a no deposit no obligation order to get in the queue.

Mini dealer has an allocation for a soon-to-be-in production JCW Hardtop. Wife may upgrade.

Lusted after a CPO Audi e-tron GT.

Drove a used 718 Cayman for the first time…base model with PDK. Makes the list for attainable dream car someday. Gotta try a manual too though.

And came close to buying a new 2023 BRZ but decided to think more about it the rest of the weekend. Base model (which they call premium) manual for MSRP of $29,615, no fees.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

More insane pricing from or friends at CarMax

I go to CarMax when I want to have a laugh. I guess charging original sticker for an 11 year old truck is the new normal.

https://catskills.craigslist.org/ctd/d/catskill-2011-ford-ranger-super-cab-xlt/7517148456.html

roadburner

If a newer JCW Clubman or GP turned up near me I’d be seriously tempted.

tifighter

@breld said:

And came close to buying a new 2023 BRZ but decided to think more about it the rest of the weekend.

At least someone can exercise some restraint around here.

corvette

The Audi has an error for the SOS system not working. Turns out, it uses 3G hardware which has been sunsetted. It appears there is a free software update (through the dealer) to disable it, but that stings pretty badly on a four year old car. They are also offering a hardware upgrade dongle which appears to install via an OBD-II port bypass which will provide most (but not all) of the OEM functionality, but that offer appears to only be available if you are subscribing to Audi's connected services.

Despite this, I was able to begin downloading navigation map updates which it said were available. I can't figure out whether they are being downloaded via a rogue 3G tower which is still running, via my home wifi via my cell phone's Bluetooth, or via my cell phone data plan via my cell phone's Bluetooth. The nav system "recommended" that it only download a three state region, however, if there are no capacity constraints, I will probably update them all.

roadburner

@corvette said:
The Audi has an error for the SOS system not working. Turns out, it uses 3G hardware which has been sunsetted. It appears there is a free software update (through the dealer) to disable it, but that stings pretty badly on a four year old car. They are also offering a hardware upgrade dongle which appears to install via an OBD-II port bypass which will provide most (but not all) of the OEM functionality, but that offer appears to only be available if you are subscribing to Audi's connected services.

Despite this, I was able to begin downloading navigation map updates which it said were available. I can't figure out whether they are being downloaded via a rogue 3G tower which is still running, via my home wifi via my cell phone's Bluetooth, or via my cell phone data plan via my cell phone's Bluetooth. The nav system "recommended" that it only download a three state region, however, if there are no capacity constraints, I will probably update them all.

I was tickled that my eight year old 2er lost some telematic features. I’d be really upset if I had a four year old car(or newer) that was affected.

corvette

roadburner said:

I was tickled that my eight year old 2er lost some telematic features. I’d be really upset if I had a four year old car(or newer) that was affected.

So, it looks like Audi really bungled the infotainment thing. From what I can tell, those updates use a separate 4G modem (given the download speed, seems like one of the fake 4G ones that is actually 3.5G, but at least it still works). And you get about two and a half years of complimentary updates for the nav system. But, you're only allowed to download five out of 30+ regions through the modem. They used to offer an offline download to an SD card that would update all of the regions, but it was a convoluted process, and it now appears that they took that away.

I'm still digging on the Audi boards, but this is annoying and makes me very glad I use Waze... I started some built-in downloads tonight, but shut it down and put it on the battery maintainer once the 12v battery got down to 11.8 volts.

nyccarguy

Here’s a pic of the Wrangler I am Jeep Sitting for my friend. Took it for a ride today to get groceries. Quite different than my 4Xe. The 6 speed is easy to drive.

corvette

Mazda has both the CX-5 and the CX-50 available as 2023 models... seems like an overlap to me. I'm also not sure what is going on with the MX-30 EV. Not many EVs available with only a 100 mile range anymore, and it's only available in CA. I think I'd take a used i3 with range extender over that.

roadburner

The Alfa dealer still has the green/tan CPO 2020 Giulia Ti Sport; it’s attractive and reasonably priced. Still, I’m very hesitant due to the AWD and reliability issues.

graphicguy

Auto

breld said:

Been shopping the new 2023 Palisade a little - something about it really intrigues me. I think it’s the idea of having something akin to the minivans we had back in the day…great functionality, comfort, etc.

But my point is more about the current shopping environment. I’ve spoken to three Hyundai dealerships:

• One was taken over recently by a “One Price” dealership network that used to have a great reputation in the Denver area. That reputation is waning. They do indeed have a simple no-haggle one price approach - $5,000 over MSRP on every Palisade (a bit more on higher trims). But no dealer handling.
  
• Another is not as bad - MSRP plus dealer handling ($599 I think), but they require you to go through them for financing, and I’ve heard they may require you to trade in a vehicle too.
  
• But there’s hope. A third dealership is very pleasant to deal with and is at MSRP, no dealer handling. And if anything sits on their lot at all, I’ve seen them provide dealer discounts accordingly.
  

I’d like to think that these predatory dealerships taking full advantage of the current environment will pay for it when the market calms, but I imagine they will simply adjust and no one will be the wiser (other than the few of us who shop non-stop).

There are more than a couple of local dealerships I won’t do business with any more because of the same issue.

One of them is my Acura dealership, who was taken over by the infamous Cadillac dealership who I had poor experiences with. Speaking of which, my Acura dealer is looking quite forlorn. Barely anything new or used on the lot. And, many of the service folks have left.

Their competitor, about 10 miles away, looks like they’re beefing up on their inventory finally.

Which begs the question, my original dealership may be transitioning to selling something else. At least, that’s my guess.

breld

corvette said:

Mazda has both the CX-5 and the CX-50 available as 2023 models... seems like an overlap to me. I'm also not sure what is going on with the MX-30 EV. Not many EVs available with only a 100 mile range anymore, and it's only available in CA. I think I'd take a used i3 with range extender over that.

Agreed 100% on all counts. It reminds me of when Nissan sold the old Rogue (renamed Rogue Sport) alongside the new redesigned Rogue. I know they’re trying to go after the outdoorsy audience with that CX-50. It’s a nice vehicle, I’ve gotta think the CX-5 will be phased out and the CX-50 will simply be available in “street form” (meaning, painted fenders ).

Michaell

Funny you mention the Mazda. I’m in San Diego for a few days, and my sister expressed an interest in the CX-50.

She did find a 2020 Lincoln Corsair she wants to look at this morning, however.

tjc78

They are delivering the RAM to my house (no additional charge, $250 savings) either Wednesday or Thursday. It is being picked up today.

It ended up with a pretty intense conversation today, but in the end this was the path of least resistance. I know backing this out considering the bank funded it would be a very big challenge. The broker did offer to buy it out but wasn’t 100% sure I would get out clean.

At any rate it is a pretty sweet deal especially in this market and he said they aren’t making any more of this model/package.

So in other words they wore me down…

28firefighter

tjc78 said:

They are delivering the RAM to my house (no additional charge, $250 savings) either Wednesday or Thursday. It is being picked up today.

It ended up with a pretty intense conversation today, but in the end this was the path of least resistance. I know backing this out considering the bank funded it would be a very big challenge. The broker did offer to buy it out but wasn’t 100% sure I would get out clean.

At any rate it is a pretty sweet deal especially in this market and he said they aren’t making any more of this model/package.

So in other words they wore me down…

Did they refund the broker fee?

jmonroe1

@tjc78 said:
They are delivering the RAM to my house (no additional charge, $250 savings) either Wednesday or Thursday. It is being picked up today.

It ended up with a pretty intense conversation today, but in the end this was the path of least resistance. I know backing this out considering the bank funded it would be a very big challenge. The broker did offer to buy it out but wasn’t 100% sure I would get out clean.

At any rate it is a pretty sweet deal especially in this market and he said they aren’t making any more of this model/package.

So in other words they wore me down…

————————————————
Nice to hear you got it worked out. Just be sure they ain’t delivering it to your shore residence.

jmonroe

breld

@tifighter - excited to hear about the potential M2 acquisition. I tend to like the white (or silver), but I'm a sucker for that Long Beach Blue.

We were roaming lots yesterday and the local BMW dealer has a 2020 M2C in white that they've had for a few weeks now. About 19k miles, listed at $64k. The fact that it's been sitting for a bit gives me hope that pricing may come down. You'll be ahead of the curve if you can make a nice deal on yours.

tifighter

Apparently I’m a sucker for any blue.

tjc78

@28firefighter said:
Did they refund the broker fee?

Nope.

tjc78

@jmonroe1 said:

@tjc78 said:
They are delivering the RAM to my house (no additional charge, $250 savings) either Wednesday or Thursday. It is being picked up today.

It ended up with a pretty intense conversation today, but in the end this was the path of least resistance. I know backing this out considering the bank funded it would be a very big challenge. The broker did offer to buy it out but wasn’t 100% sure I would get out clean.

At any rate it is a pretty sweet deal especially in this market and he said they aren’t making any more of this model/package.

So in other words they wore me down…

————————————————
Nice to hear you got it worked out. Just be sure they ain’t delivering it to your shore residence.

jmonroe

Well they are but I’ll be there. I have in writing the address change. If they screw up this last part I’ll be amazed.

tjc78

@Michaell said:
Funny you mention the Mazda. I’m in San Diego for a few days, and my sister expressed an interest in the CX-50.

She did find a 2020 Lincoln Corsair she wants to look at this morning, however.

I’ve been seeing quite a few new Aviators lately. They look really good to me. I could see one being a replacement for the XC next year, however, I’d wager they aren’t a great lease.

28firefighter

Not explicitly car related, but tangentially related because it has to do with objects on wheels.

My son has been struggling with overcoming his fear of swimming alone and riding his bike unassisted. He is fully capable, it was just psychological. This weekend he went from being unwilling to so much as leave the steps unassisted to jumping in the water, pushing off, and swimming across the pool by himself. Today, he went to bike camp being unwilling to so much as get on his bike and came home riding independently and getting moved up to the road readiness class.

I'm so proud of him for pushing through - it took him a bit longer, but he did it all on his own.

nyccarguy

@28firefighter said:
Not explicitly car related, but tangentially related because it has to do with objects on wheels.

My son has been struggling with overcoming his fear of swimming alone and riding his bike unassisted. He is fully capable, it was just psychological. This weekend he went from being unwilling to so much as leave the steps unassisted to jumping in the water, pushing off, and swimming across the pool by himself. Today, he went to bike camp being unwilling to so much as get on his bike and came home riding independently and getting moved up to the road readiness class.

I'm so proud of him for pushing through - it took him a bit longer, but he did it all on his own.

That’s great news!

jmonroe1

@28firefighter said:
Not explicitly car related, but tangentially related because it has to do with objects on wheels.

My son has been struggling with overcoming his fear of swimming alone and riding his bike unassisted. He is fully capable, it was just psychological. This weekend he went from being unwilling to so much as leave the steps unassisted to jumping in the water, pushing off, and swimming across the pool by himself. Today, he went to bike camp being unwilling to so much as get on his bike and came home riding independently and getting moved up to the road readiness class.

I'm so proud of him for pushing through - it took him a bit longer, but he did it all on his own.

————————————————
You saw it first hand, all of a sudden kids hit a wall and everything stops. Then just as suddenly the wall crashes and they make a step change in the upward direction. If you can explain it you’re probably in the wrong profession. The point being this seems to be how kids grow up. Believe me, you’ll see more stuff like this before he’s grown. And then once grown they seem to regress permanently at least as far as parents are concerned.

Sit back and enjoy the ride.

jmonroe

breld

That’s a great story @28firefighter - thanks for sharing.

mjfloyd1

@28firefighter said:
Not explicitly car related, but tangentially related because it has to do with objects on wheels.

My son has been struggling with overcoming his fear of swimming alone and riding his bike unassisted. He is fully capable, it was just psychological. This weekend he went from being unwilling to so much as leave the steps unassisted to jumping in the water, pushing off, and swimming across the pool by himself. Today, he went to bike camp being unwilling to so much as get on his bike and came home riding independently and getting moved up to the road readiness class.

I'm so proud of him for pushing through - it took him a bit longer, but he did it all on his own.

Some kids, it seems like they work through their fear and push through. Other kids see others with the skill and they don’t want to be left out and they push through.

Rather way, great results!

corvette

I now learn that the new Prius battery I ordered had an incorrect estimated/stated ship date of August 12. The next shipment from that vendor actually isn't due until November, and the seller states I am 2-3 shipments back in the queue. I told him to cancel the order and refund my money. I'm not waiting six months to a year.

explorerx4

One of my kids was riding horses before they were 3 but took longer to ride a bike.

28firefighter

@explorerx4 said:
One of my kids was riding horses before they were 3 but took longer to ride a bike.

And that’s just it. He starts K in the fall and is already reading. But this stuff he’s just been in his head about it.

I got him on the road tonight on his bike. He’s so proud of himself.

andres3

breld said:

@tifighter - excited to hear about the potential M2 acquisition. I tend to like the white (or silver), but I'm a sucker for that Long Beach Blue.

We were roaming lots yesterday and the local BMW dealer has a 2020 M2C in white that they've had for a few weeks now. About 19k miles, listed at $64k. The fact that it's been sitting for a bit gives me hope that pricing may come down. You'll be ahead of the curve if you can make a nice deal on yours.

Which Long Beach Blue M2??? I'm looking at a '18 M2 in the same color; over priced in my honest opinion; but if they come down, I could be bribed by a BMW dealer to convert, but they are going to have to cover the car at least 2 years; the CPO just "technically expired" but they locked it in so there's 10 months left. From past experience 10 months is worthless, but 24 months could be worth a fortune.

A deal might be found if they can absorb all the "extended platinum CPO BMW warranty" on an old M2.

Why do I think it's overpriced? One reason is the market. 2nd reason is I loved the M240i.

I now KNOW why @roadburner said manuals were not "necessary" anymore. I felt the same way with dual clutches. However, I never drove a BMW tuned and programmed ZF-8 speed. That thing was magic. Amazing! It really made enough magic to convince me that BMW is lying and they really have a dual clutch in there. The SMG dual clutch M2 drove very similarly, maybe 1 to 2% more snappy, really too close to tell in a blindfolded test I think. I know, blasphemy!!!

The main difference, now that they made the '18 M240i a wonderful torque monster that makes up for the HP deficit vs. the OLD '18 M2 (still very close), they really are similar in sport or sport +.

The difference, comes down to a slightly snappier suspension in the M2; bigger wider tires/wheels, a superior growl, engine, and exhaust orchestra in the M2, and, well, bragging rights for having the "real" M vs. an M-line which is like an N-line at Hyundai. Thinking about it.

By the way, if your in the market for an Elantra and you don't need tons of HP (which the N has), get the N-Line at 201 HP; it's like a lesser interior GTI. The Elantra is very light though, the GTI heavy. This makes the 201 Korean horses clearly a notch faster than the 220 German horses. However, in a crash, I'd rather have the tank-like GTI. Either way I'd rather have the real N for the exhaust note alone.

With the BMW's, they are both six cylinder so the m240i doesn't sound bad; it just wasn't noticeable or distinguishable. The M2 was noticeable.

The M2 is long beach blue. The M240i was white... similar low mileage (around 18K); $15K delta (40 vs. 55 at asking). The M2 is CPO though.

breld

Here’s a nice example of an M240i. White over red, manual trannie.

https://www.vroom.com/inventory/bmw-2-series-2020-WBA2J5C09L7E67671

stickguy

that is a sharp looking car, with the correct amount of pedals. I could live with that one, even though not a fan of 2 doors.

Michaell

Long day with my sister car shopping.

First stop was the Infiniti dealer, to get some updated information about lease end options. Was told we could either sell the car to them directly, and realize any equity, or buy the car out at the end of the lease (duh).

With that out of-the-way, we went across the street to the Mazda dealer. They had exactly one CX – 50 on the lot, so we decided to take it out for a test drive. This one was the turbo premium package, and it was very well loaded. Sticker price was $40,000, and the dealer had some “mandatory” accessories that bumped the price up to about $43,000. My sister liked it, a lot, but as you’ll see, she’s pretty fickle.

Next stop was the LR dealer that had both the Corsair and an X1. The X1 was Phytonic Blue over Mocha and only 6000 miles on it. Sister was in love! Took it for a short test drive and that didn’t dampen her spirits in the least. She texted photos of both cars to her husband (who works close by) and he preferred the Lincoln. Grey over black, 41,000 miles for $34k. We took that to his office and he sorta approved.

After that, my sister wanted to see the XC40, so off we went. They had a black over black T5 R-Design marked down $3k from sticker. Nice enough, but my sister - like most Volvo aficionados- wants the denim blue. The had a CPO 2021 XC60 T5 inscription AWD in that color. 12,000 miles for $48k. The BMW was quickly bumped from the top pedestal after about 30 seconds behind the wheel. It helped that the salesman was showing her all the features during the test drive.

I found another one at a different dealer - FWD, 16,000 miles for $44k. Ran out of time to see it.

Got home and she found some used denim blue XC40’s around as well, under $40k.

As I mentioned to @breld and @jpp75 on our text thread, her Venn diagram has about 12 circles in it. No idea where this will lead, but I’m glad she’s working tomorrow so I can do some sightseeing. We are going to the Padres game tomorrow night.

stickguy

good luck. She sounds like me shopping. shiny objects! Squirrel, Squirrel!

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

Long day with my sister car shopping.

First stop was the Infiniti dealer, to get some updated information about lease end options. Was told we could either sell the car to them directly, and realize any equity, or buy the car out at the end of the lease (duh).

With that out of-the-way, we went across the street to the Mazda dealer. They had exactly one CX – 50 on the lot, so we decided to take it out for a test drive. This one was the turbo premium package, and it was very well loaded. Sticker price was $40,000, and the dealer had some “mandatory” accessories that bumped the price up to about $43,000. My sister liked it, a lot, but as you’ll see, she’s pretty fickle.

Next stop was the LR dealer that had both the Corsair and an X1. The X1 was Phytonic Blue over Mocha and only 6000 miles on it. Sister was in love! Took it for a short test drive and that didn’t dampen her spirits in the least. She texted photos of both cars to her husband (who works close by) and he preferred the Lincoln. Grey over black, 41,000 miles for $34k. We took that to his office and he sorta approved.

After that, my sister wanted to see the XC40, so off we went. They had a black over black T5 R-Design marked down $3k from sticker. Nice enough, but my sister - like most Volvo aficionados- wants the denim blue. The had a CPO 2021 XC60 T5 inscription AWD in that color. 12,000 miles for $48k. The BMW was quickly bumped from the top pedestal after about 30 seconds behind the wheel. It helped that the salesman was showing her all the features during the test drive.

I found another one at a different dealer - FWD, 16,000 miles for $44k. Ran out of time to see it.

Got home and she found some used denim blue XC40’s around as well, under $40k.

As I mentioned to @breld and @jpp75 on our text thread, her Venn diagram has about 12 circles in it. No idea where this will lead, but I’m glad she’s working tomorrow so I can do some sightseeing. We are going to the Padres game tomorrow night.

She should feel honored that her brother is willing to spend so much time helping her out. Does she realize that while you’re helping her, you’re feeding your own addiction?

ab348

Michaell said:

As I mentioned to @breld and @jpp75 on our text thread, her Venn diagram has about 12 circles in it. No idea where this will lead, but I’m glad she’s working tomorrow so I can do some sightseeing. We are going to the Padres game tomorrow night.

Sounds like she wants a Volvo so you can remove the other circles from the diagram and zero in on getting what she wants. Removing the ones that aren't in her desired color will make that diagram even smaller.

qbrozen

The way I focus my sister is to say “if all had the same miles, price, and color, which would you choose?” That gets her real desire out of her so we can focus on that one vehicle and getting the best deal on it.

xwesx

Michaell said:

“ Does $60K make your eyes glaze over? ”

When my parents bought their last new car in 2003, they paid around $17-18K (about $27K today), and my dad was apoplectic about it.

I've got a $55K EV on order, and I'm not blinking an eye about it. Not sure if that says more about me or the general state of the market.

Sorry for the late responses; I haven't checked in since mid-last week.

Your comments got me to thinking about my time at The Henry Ford Museum over the weekend. Amazing place, by the way. I fully recommend for anyone in the area. However, plan on taking some time there! It's definitely a full day (if not more), and the prices are a bit eye watering, so it is certainly worth it to get your money's worth.

Anyhow, most of their informational signs near vehicles and trailers would state the original price, translate that to "today", and also note how many months, at the average wage, the car would cost you to buy. I would say that 7.5 to 8.5 months was pretty standard for most things. I was thinking, "Yeah, that sound about right." Of course, the high end stuff, such as the Bugatti (33 years) might be slightly higher than average.

That got me to thinking about how that really compares to today. According to the stats, the average US income currently is $53,560. Average new car price in July, based on transactions, is $48,182. Nearly 11 months. History says prices are pretty high right now!

qbrozen

It is kind of interesting. I would venture that part of the problem is higher standards and content, though. The average car even 20 yrs ago didn’t have anywhere near the engineering and standard features of today.