Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

nyccarguy

corvette said:

I believe the cash incentive is how they are implementing price protection, so that implies a $2,750 MSRP bump for hybrids and a $1,750 bump for EcoBoost models. I am a little annoyed that they are making cruise standard on the XL and my 2022 won’t come with it, but I’d be more annoyed by getting pushed to a 2023 model.

I only have the one order through Granger Ford and they have announced they do not plan to accept new retail orders until they figure out how their converted 2022 orders will fit with their allocations. I am still thinking of submitting a new hybrid order. @stickguy - do you know which dealers are planning to take new 2023 orders? Long-McArthur? Chapman?

A LOT of people had issues with Chapman when it they custom ordered a Wrangler 4Xe. I'd be careful with them. I think @qbrozen bought one of his through Chapman.

stickguy

Mine came from Chapman. No issues.

stickguy

Long mcarthur will take new orders. I’m sure they all are.

nyccarguy

Since you are all wondering, I did return my wife's Highlander to her with a full tank of fuel, with the interior and exterior washed, as well as fully serviced:)-

She did remember to plug in my Wrangler when she got home.

qbrozen

I got a 4xe and a TRX through Chapman. A little sticky, but worked out fine. I've also ordered the Wagoneer there.

kyfdx

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

@kyfdx where are you? Sounds fancy.

Current rental

4cly. But hey, the top goes down, right?

We’ve got a 5.0 in the airport fleet that I got to drive once. Usually the cleaners “volunteer” to take it over to the airport from the cleaning facility.

300 HP+. It's no slouch. It was that or a Malibu.

It’s only lacking in comparison to it’s big brother. It’s amazing that a 4cyl. Is putting out the same hp. that the 8cyl. was producing only a few years ago.

For reference my convertible only has 168hp.

I followed a rental GT up a long windy road for about 15 minutes, yesterday. We both had the top down, and at 25 MPH, he wasn't having any more fun than me. Even the 4 cylinder is not good on gas, though

stickguy

I did just confirm my 2022 order did not get scheduled. So I will get my $2,750 private offer and go down the 2023 rabbit hole! But at least I’m upgrading to a lariat now.

explorerx4

One part I didn't copy mentioned a short 2023MY order window.

stickguy

Probably will get back on normal model year cutover schedule. This year was abnormal

Also likely to cut off order banks much earlier. And just build dealer stock at the end to avoid having rollover orders

corvette

The dealers will love that—much better to have stock on the lot that they can mark up for customers who are desperate.

oldfarmer50

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

@kyfdx where are you? Sounds fancy.

Current rental

4cly. But hey, the top goes down, right?

We’ve got a 5.0 in the airport fleet that I got to drive once. Usually the cleaners “volunteer” to take it over to the airport from the cleaning facility.

300 HP+. It's no slouch. It was that or a Malibu.

It’s only lacking in comparison to it’s big brother. It’s amazing that a 4cyl. Is putting out the same hp. that the 8cyl. was producing only a few years ago.

For reference my convertible only has 168hp.

I followed a rental GT up a long windy road for about 15 minutes, yesterday. We both had the top down, and at 25 MPH, he wasn't having any more fun than me. Even the 4 cylinder is not good on gas, though

That’s what I’ve always said about convertibles, the only thing that matters is that the top goes down. I actually wouldn’t enjoy driving with the top down doing 100 or carving 1G+ turns. Convertibles are meant for cruising.

I’m surprised you didn’t get good mileage. Even the miled up rentals I’ve driven get high 20s over the long term and I doubt anybody was taking it easy. I would think low 30s would be doable on the highway.

stickguy

Retail price drops finally coming soon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VOkltPhAJs

qbrozen

I say it every month so that I’ll eventually be able to say “I told you so.”

Oh, wait, that’s not me who does that, its just what I see in these youtube videos.

stickguy

The steady drop in wholesale prices was documented well. And interesting info on floor plan calls happening, along with more no sales at the auctions.

Cars are going to eventually pile up someplace. Either auction or retail lots. Which has to finally lead to prices coming down to get units moved and cash flow happening.

henryn

Judging by just looking while driving by on the freeway, Carmax has the only full lots. All of the new car dealerships are really barren looking.

andres3

Carmax is most definitely high on crack:
https://www.carmax.com/car/22768515

20% appreciation from new? for an almost 5 year old car?

stickguy

it is a nice one. Just let the market speak. if it rots on the lot, the price will come down.

ab348

Today when I went to Enterprise to pick up my rental RAV4, right next door is a Ford dealer. For the first time in ages, their lot appeared to be pretty much filled with lots of new inventory. Mostly pickups, but of course that is Ford’s main thing these days.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Retail price drops finally coming soon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VOkltPhAJs

That guy and his son have been predicting price drops for over a year. I’ve kind of lost faith in him although he did predict the skyrocketing of prices that started in June of 2020. Since that’s when I bought my last car I felt like a genius market timer.

tifighter

andres3 said:

Carmax is most definitely high on crack:
https://www.carmax.com/car/22768515

20% appreciation from new? for an almost 5 year old car?

I paid less for a Comp.

oldfarmer50

andres3 said:

Carmax is most definitely high on crack:
https://www.carmax.com/car/22768515

20% appreciation from new? for an almost 5 year old car?

This Carvana comp is almost the same as the one I bought for $8150 26 months ago only mine had 20k miles less at the time.

https://www.carvana.com/vehicle/2466882

Michaell

Member needs help choosing their first car

sda

Parked next to my car in the company parking garage was a white MB E-450 wagon with black and satin wheels. It’s the first one I’ve seen in the wild and imagine it is very similar to @fintail and @breld. Very distinctive and sharp looking car.

nyccarguy

Apparently my wife’s Highlander wants to identify as a 4Runner:

tifighter

Uh oh.

28firefighter

@nyccarguy said:
Apparently my wife’s Highlander wants to identify as a 4Runner:

That’ll buff out.

corvette

At first, I thought you meant the cross bars on the roof rack, then I saw... ugh, how did that happen? I remember when I was a kid, seeing one of my mother's coworkers get in her car and turn the key, and her rear window spontaneously shattered.

Michaell

We had the same thing happen to our ‘03 Explorer.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

Apparently my wife’s Highlander wants to identify as a 4Runner:

JB Weld.

xwesx

Took me a minute to see that, too. I was thinking, "I.... don't get it." Hahaha.

That's rough! I have lost a couple rear windows, but never spontaneously. It take a lot of pressure to make tempered glass beg for mercy like that.

graphicguy

nyccarguy said:

Apparently my wife’s Highlander wants to identify as a 4Runner:

Well that just sux!

Happened once...on the ill-fated Cadillac CTS. It was winter. Used the remote start to warm it up. After 5 minutes or so, went out to the car to drive away after it warmed up. Shut the driver's door. Entire read window shattered when I shut the door. One of many foibles with the Cadillac.

They tried to explain it, but never could do so with any sort of believability. I think that was the last straw that caused me to file for lemon law procedures.

ab348

Had some appointments today so I got to drive the RAV4 a bit more. I actually like how peppy it is off the line. Getting in and out is easy for me and my non-functional knee. It appears to have good interior room. Steering and handling is actually not as bad as I expected. It handles our potholed/patched roads and the plethora of speed bumps/speed tables/speed cushions (a.k.a. "obstacles") placed on our streets by our anti-vehicle city fathers just fine without even having to slow down, a big plus around here these days.

On the negative side, even though it's not battleship-sized like some others, I still find it bulky. The controls and just the way things work seem utterly non-intuitive and confusing to me as a Toyota newbie. It lacks a handgrip for the drivers armrest which I'm constantly reaching for when I want to close the door (you need to use a vertical grip higher up). I really hate having to use a twist key again, to my surprise, and I miss not having proximity unlocking. Toyota seems quite mean in terms of the things it provides on the base model so I would advise against choosing one of those. I'm pretty sure now that the driveline noise I mentioned is indeed the tires - these are not the OEM ones but some off-brand from China and they make a fast woo-woo kind of sound above 40mph or so.

nyccarguy

I guess if a window has to break, the rear is a good one. She can drive it. I filed a claim with insurance. Got a call from a company called Glass America. Made an appointment for Friday afternoon. They will replace with domestically made glass. OEM Toyota Glass needs approval and is most likely on back order (could be 2 days, could be 2 weeks). It is a no deductible comprehensive claim. Rates won't increase.

mjfloyd1

2024 Ford Mustang V8 and stick shift remain

https://www.autoweek.com/news/future-cars/a41200572/2024-ford-mustang-reveal/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_aut&utm_medium=email&date=091522&utm_campaign=nl29059848&utm_term=AAA -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

andres3

tifighter said:

andres3 said:

Carmax is most definitely high on crack:
https://www.carmax.com/car/22768515

20% appreciation from new? for an almost 5 year old car?

I paid less for a Comp.

How many miles though? Condition 10 of 10 (assumed with only 2K miles and the photos)?

Hence the crack.

Speaking of cracks and glass.... the Neon Windshield split in half from the roof to the cowl vertically, for no particular reason at all other than lemon.

sda

On my way to work this morning I noticed the Honda dealer finally had some new vehicles on the lot, primarily CR-Vs. The window sticker addendum didn't show a market adjustment just add ons like screen protector, LoJack, etc. for an additional $4800. Nice profit margin, ha.

tifighter

andres3 said:

tifighter said:

andres3 said:

Carmax is most definitely high on crack:
https://www.carmax.com/car/22768515

20% appreciation from new? for an almost 5 year old car?

I paid less for a Comp.

How many miles though? Condition 10 of 10 (assumed with only 2K miles and the photos)?

I thought we all saw the auction listing by now. 2020. Original owner. It had about 9900 miles. Still under warranty. I bought it for $58.5k.

andres3

tifighter said:

andres3 said:

tifighter said:

andres3 said:

Carmax is most definitely high on crack:
https://www.carmax.com/car/22768515

20% appreciation from new? for an almost 5 year old car?

I paid less for a Comp.

How many miles though? Condition 10 of 10 (assumed with only 2K miles and the photos)?

I thought we all saw the auction listing by now. 2020. Original owner. It had about 9900 miles. Still under warranty. I bought it for $58.5k.

That's a good deal. I see a '19 with 34K miles listed for $55,900.

corvette

I'm not a fan of the styling of the new Mustang. IMO, this is the second successive generation that has gotten uglier than the previous.

nyccarguy

corvette said:

At first, I thought you meant the cross bars on the roof rack, then I saw... ugh, how did that happen? I remember when I was a kid, seeing one of my mother's coworkers get in her car and turn the key, and her rear window spontaneously shattered.

My son was on the front lawn throwing a ball up in the air and trying to hit it. He said he threw the ball up and "it went foul," over his head and behind him and smashed right through the back window. I'd rather him smash the car window by accident playing outside than spending time in the basement playing x box.

andres3

I bit the bullet and despite Carbon black shortages from Ukraine and Russia driving up tire prices that are spiking due to inflation, I ordered up Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4's.

Super expensive, but I know I'll get good all-season tires. The cheap tires are no longer cheap, so figured why not. This is for the S4. It will now be a snow car.

corvette

@stickguy - I'm not sure whether you've seen the 2023 price list yet, but my reading of it is that Co-Pilot 360 Assist is only $100 more than the regular Co-Pilot package, and appears to be offered on all trim levels. I think Assist may include radar cruise with full start-stop capability, but I'm not sure. Seems awfully cheap, although I think the constraints are that they only plan on building 20% with Assist and something like 40% with regular CP360. (If you can't tell, I'm still thinking about putting in a new order for a 2023 hybrid.)

pensfan83

@nyccarguy said:
My son was on the front lawn throwing a ball up in the air and trying to hit it. He said he threw the ball up and "it went foul," over his head and behind him and smashed right through the back window. I'd rather him smash the car window by accident playing outside than spending time in the basement playing x box.

Oy, been there.

This happened right before Vroom picked up the truck. A wayward baseball of course, a couple more feet and I would have been getting a new windshield.

pensfan83

sda said:

On my way to work this morning I noticed the Honda dealer finally had some new vehicles on the lot, primarily CR-Vs. The window sticker addendum didn't show a market adjustment just add ons like screen protector, LoJack, etc. for an additional $4800. Nice profit margin, ha.

Every time I hear or read this I'm appreciative that both stores where we've bought a combined 4 cars since 2017 charge MSRP with no add-ons. There's also a Honda store part of a local dealer group that was willing to sell a '22 Civic Si at MSRP and only included $150 all weather mats.

Now used pricing at any store, along with willingness to consider anything other than the listed price, leaves a lot to be desired but that's everywhere though hopefully not for very much longer.

nyccarguy

pensfan83 said:

sda said:

On my way to work this morning I noticed the Honda dealer finally had some new vehicles on the lot, primarily CR-Vs. The window sticker addendum didn't show a market adjustment just add ons like screen protector, LoJack, etc. for an additional $4800. Nice profit margin, ha.

Every time I hear or read this I'm appreciative that both stores where we've bought a combined 4 cars since 2017 charge MSRP with no add-ons. There's also a Honda store part of a local dealer group that was willing to sell a '22 Civic Si at MSRP and only included $150 all weather mats.

Now used pricing at any store, along with willingness to consider anything other than the listed price, leaves a lot to be desired but that's everywhere though hopefully not for very much longer.

A Civic Si at sticker is a really good deal right now. What color is it? You inquired or they have it listed on their website? I saw a Black one yesterday evening on my way home. They did a good job with it. At sticker, it is damn near close to $10K cheaper than an Integra with the 6MT.

stickguy

corvette said:

@stickguy - I'm not sure whether you've seen the 2023 price list yet, but my reading of it is that Co-Pilot 360 Assist is only $100 more than the regular Co-Pilot package, and appears to be offered on all trim levels. I think Assist may include radar cruise with full start-stop capability, but I'm not sure. Seems awfully cheap, although I think the constraints are that they only plan on building 20% with Assist and something like 40% with regular CP360. (If you can't tell, I'm still thinking about putting in a new order for a 2023 hybrid.)

I saw the price list. That doesn't include constraints and limitations though. There are a lot of options listed that only can be had on certain trim levels, or need other packages first (or are included in a package). The order guide will have all that.

one thing I am not sure of is on the co-pilot. Assist is only available on the Lariat luxury model. But it is unclear if you have to buy both packages to get what is in the assist. I would pay $100 for ACC but not sure about $750. I hope it is just the $750 package getting you everything!

hopefully the order guide comes out later today and someone posts it on the forum. And I can get confirmation from my dealer tomorrow they had all the instructions and got my order put in. then hope they actually do something to prioritize the rollovers but I am not counting on that.

stickguy

nyccarguy said:

pensfan83 said:

sda said:

On my way to work this morning I noticed the Honda dealer finally had some new vehicles on the lot, primarily CR-Vs. The window sticker addendum didn't show a market adjustment just add ons like screen protector, LoJack, etc. for an additional $4800. Nice profit margin, ha.

Every time I hear or read this I'm appreciative that both stores where we've bought a combined 4 cars since 2017 charge MSRP with no add-ons. There's also a Honda store part of a local dealer group that was willing to sell a '22 Civic Si at MSRP and only included $150 all weather mats.

Now used pricing at any store, along with willingness to consider anything other than the listed price, leaves a lot to be desired but that's everywhere though hopefully not for very much longer.

A Civic Si at sticker is a really good deal right now. What color is it? You inquired or they have it listed on their website? I saw a Black one yesterday evening on my way home. They did a good job with it. At sticker, it is damn near close to $10K cheaper than an Integra with the 6MT.

I am taking the RDX in for service tomorrow and hope they have an Integra to look at while I am waiting. And doubly hope it is a manual! But an Si would be tempting, though I still want the much nicer seats in the Acura.

maybe they will trade even up on a 6MT Integra for the RDX. That would be quite the surprise for the wife if I came home with one of those instead!

pensfan83

nyccarguy said:

pensfan83 said:

sda said:

On my way to work this morning I noticed the Honda dealer finally had some new vehicles on the lot, primarily CR-Vs. The window sticker addendum didn't show a market adjustment just add ons like screen protector, LoJack, etc. for an additional $4800. Nice profit margin, ha.

Every time I hear or read this I'm appreciative that both stores where we've bought a combined 4 cars since 2017 charge MSRP with no add-ons. There's also a Honda store part of a local dealer group that was willing to sell a '22 Civic Si at MSRP and only included $150 all weather mats.

Now used pricing at any store, along with willingness to consider anything other than the listed price, leaves a lot to be desired but that's everywhere though hopefully not for very much longer.

A Civic Si at sticker is a really good deal right now. What color is it? You inquired or they have it listed on their website? I saw a Black one yesterday evening on my way home. They did a good job with it. At sticker, it is damn near close to $10K cheaper than an Integra with the 6MT.

I inquired about allocation when we were there looking at Passports for my parents. The one they had coming in was white and wasn't spoken for. I'd prefer Sonic Gray, Blue, or even Blazing Orange so I passed.

corvette

stickguy said:

one thing I am not sure of is on the co-pilot. Assist is only available on the Lariat luxury model. But it is unclear if you have to buy both packages to get what is in the assist. I would pay $100 for ACC but not sure about $750. I hope it is just the $750 package getting you everything!

Interesting. I'm also awaiting an actual order guide since it should better specify which options require other options. I also thought there was a paint color besides Hot Pepper Red which was an upcharge, but they've changed some of the colors for 2023. I did hear that they plan to give the dealers one week notice before closing the order banks.

tifighter

Blues you can use.