Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

qbrozen

@stickguy said:
speaking of deals, got a quote today from the VW dealer in case I decide to go nuts and get one (was supposed to be my son, but the permanent job is moving at a snails pace, so might not happen this year.

anyway, I got a lease quote on a 2014 Jetta (new 1.8T engine!). A connectivity + sunroof package, so MSRP of $24,095.

true S&D (including DMV fees, tax, 1st payment) of $284/mo for 42, or $299/mo for 36. Both with 12K year. Does not seem too bad to me, considering you don't have to give them a dime until a month after you get the car.

Anyone have an opinion of this? I do need to go and actually drive one of course.

Hmmm... I don't think that sounds bad. I'd take the 36-mo. Of course, you are still stuck with it for 3 full years. Sure you can handle that? I guess the question is: what else could you have for $299/mo for 3 yrs?
I'd probably have to see how a Fiesta would work out. They are currently advertising $129/mo for 24 mos with $2983 due at signing for 10,500 mi per year. No clue how to adjust that to see if its comparable. The mazda3 deal, if putting $0 down on their 39-mo special, I think works out to somewhere in the neighborhood of $270/mo. Probably lacking on features compared to the VW, though.

isellhondas

@nyccarguy said:
au1994 BMW keeps sucking you in as well. The inflated residuals make the lease payments

on your $X thousand dollar BMW very attractive: "Gee, I can finance a loaded Camcord for 5 years or for the same monthly payment drive a BMW for 3 years." Plus you don't have to pay for maintenance & the next time around they usually have loyalty cash.

I've said this before, but I'm really curious as to what the actual value of my car will be when the lease is up.

Besides the fact that I'm going to try and go for something less expensive next, BMWs in general are just getting ridiculously expensive. Very easy for a 328i to push well into the $50K range and 335i to get into the $60K stratosphere. My big beef with the 328i wasn't so much the coarseness of the 4cyl turbo, but with its electric power steering (improved for 2014). Call me old school, but $50K plus is A LOT for a 4 banger. $60K is too much for a 3 series that doesn't have an ///M in front of if.

The difference is for the same payment, you can OWN the Camcord after three years or you can RENT the BMW for the same payment for three years.

The leasing treadmill can be tough to jump off of.

Just saying....

isellhondas

I meant to say after FIVE years you could OWN the Camcord. How does one edit these posts now anyway? Not liking these changes!

stever

@isellhondas, there's a little gear in the top right of your posts. Clicking that gives you the Edit link.

nyccarguy

@isellhondas - I know, I know... You are 100% correct. But in the case of the stripper X1 I built, its selling price in the very low $30K range makes it a cheap (relatively) car to buy.

fintail

Went car-looking with a friend this morning (the friend who has and loathes a Prius C). He will eventually be off lease, and has no plans to ever drive another Prius- apart from the C being a less than fun drive, he wants something fancy. He spotted a 2 year old LWB XJ8 at a BMW dealer near me, and wanted to see it up close. That lasted about 2 minutes - he couldn't get comfortable in it (he's 5'10" and even at that he felt claustrophobic) and hated the high wide console. He's also really hung up on the HD style nav like my car has, and most cars disappoint in that. After that we looked at a new Accord V6 coupe, as his first new car was an 03 Accord V6. It had every single option, but he didn't warm up to it - felt too much like the old car. Then went and looked at Audis, A4 seemed to get him going, but we didn't drive it. It will be interesting to be his consultant as decision time nears.
At the Honda dealer, in the service parking area, was an immaculate green 10th anniversary Accord, I guess a 93. My friend drove a 92 Accord for a long time, and was drawn to this car.

isellhondas

@Stever@Edmunds said:
isellhondas, there's a little gear in the top right of your posts. Clicking that gives you the Edit

link.

Ah...so there is! THANKS!!

isellhondas

@nyccarguy said:
isellhondas - I know, I know... You are 100% correct. But in the case of the stripper X1 I built, its selling price in the very low $30K range makes it a cheap (relatively) car to buy.

It sounds like that "stripper" X1 is about the same price as a "loaded" CRV!

I can see Honda losing some sales if this is the case.

I've never really looked at an X1 that closely nor have I sat in one but the look smaller than a CRV. Are they? I guess I could look up the specs myself.

abacomike

@isellhondas...I can see Honda losing some sales if this is the case...

At the Boca Town Center Mall, several dealerships lease space to display their cars. Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, Cadillac, Volkswagen, Toyota, and now BMW are using displays to attract customers to their dealerships.

Last week, BMW displayed a 435i, and this week they brought in a white X1. I have never seen one before, but it is a smaller version of the X3 - definitely a sharp looking vehicle. The MSRP was $35,000, not bad for a BMW with full maintenance for 4 years.

I agree with your comment that at those prices, they will definitely give Honda a run for their money, not to mention Mercedes with their GLK350 ($37500 MSRP).

I personally believe these new model entries by BMW and Mercedes are strictly meant to broaden their market appeal and niche due to the keen competition between these two manufacturers.

But at $35,000, I would think the X1 is relatively base and stripped down much like the GLK.

jpp75

@isellhondas @nyccarguy

I was actually ready to jump off the leasing train this go round, but the Q50 was the car I really wanted and some of the tech bugs in a first year car scared me away. I considered buying an IS350 but I just didn't love it and if I'm spending that kind of money I want to love it. We'll see how the Q50 fares for the next 38 months, I would like to buy the next car outright but we know how that story plays out around here....

fintail

I've read in a few places that the MB CLA is conquesting highline Camcord buyers, no doubt an X1 could do the same.

@isellhondas said:
I've never really looked at an X1 that closely nor have I sat in one but the look smaller than a CRV. Are they? I guess I could look up the specs myself.

au1994

I haven't seen any CLA's on the road. How are the selling?

abacomike

@au1994....I haven't seen any CLA's on the road - how are they selling?

From what I've been told by my dealership, they are selling well, however sales levels are more dependent on the demographics where a specific dealer is located.

My dealership is located in an upscale community where the average age of the buyer is in the 45-70 year old range. Thus, sales are not as robust there as they are in other areas of south Florida where the demographics are more upper middle class and ages 21-40 years of age. The CLA sells better to younger drivers and to buyers who are in the $30,000-$40,000 price range. As an example, the Cadillac ATS is a direct competitor to the CLA as is the Buick Regal.

Also, it is a direct competitor to the 3 series BMW and A4.

I know that sales of the CLA have helped Mercedes take over the #1 retail spot from BMW as the top selling imported luxury manufacturer. Originally, Mercedes had targeted next year to surpass BMW - but outsold them this year - due in part to the CLA.

corvette

@isellhondas said:
I've never really looked at an X1 that closely nor have I sat in one but the look smaller than a CRV. Are they? I guess I could look up the specs myself.

I'm driving a GMC Terrain SLE with four cylinders and AWD. My instincts tell me it weighs more than the CR-V but doesn't have significantly more power. It is quiet and relatively comfortable and easy to drive on the highway. I'm only averaging 23 MPG, and that was a trip in which I was cruising at 75 on the interstate the majority of the time. It has a number of poorly implemented convenience features which, due to the poor implementation, end up being irritating. MSRP is substantially higher than the CR-V for a similarly equipped car. I'm not sure what the point is unless someone is dead set on having the optional V6. I'll try to write up a more comprehensive review when I turn the Terrain in.

fintail

Quite well, apparently

I live in an area loaded with the target demographic - 30-50 year olds who might want something cooler than normal, either for the experience or just the badge. I've seen several on the road. At least until the newness wears off, it's a home run.

@au1994 said:
I haven't seen any CLA's on the road. How are the selling?

nyccarguy

@isellhondas

CRV Length - 178.3"
X1 Length - 176.5"

CRV Wheelbase - 103.1"
X1 Wheelbase - 108.7"

The CRV "trumps" the X1 in pretty much every dimensional statistical category.

CRV horsepower/torque - 185 @ 7,000 RPM/163 @ 4,400 RPM
X1 horsepower/torque - 240 @ 5,000 RPM/260 @ 1,250 RPM

I don't think Honda is going to loose any sleep with regards to how many X1s BMW will sell. The average CRV Buyer is most likely not going to step foot on a BMW lot. If they did, they'd be in for sticker shock. A loaded CRV EXL W/ Navigation stickers for $31,275. I'll bet the average X1 sitting on a dealer's lot stickers for very close to $40K.

The $36,000 X1 I built online has only the lighting pkg, cold weather pkg, & Harmon Kardon stereo. It would have to be custom ordered. The one Mike saw in Fla is most likely a RWD X1 which you won't find here in the north east.

I've had the X1 as a loaner once and prefer it to the current 3 series sedan.

Sandman6472

Drove a 2013 Passat with 23k plus down from Orlando to Lauderdale today and was surprised at the power on tap...hit the gas and down the pike I flew with neary a hiccup! For a vehicle with these rental miles, I was very impressed actually. We did another Avis run today and the Mini Cooper and the 3 Series in our line were taken out by the powers that be. Was supposed to do 2 Daytona to Cape Canaveral runs also but they were taken away by the time we got to Cocoa Beach. Have to report at 8 tomorrow for the same as today...3 runs at this point. Am taking a change of clothes and staying at my kids place in West Palm to cut down on the driving time. Will probably start to do this a couple nights a week until season is over to save some time and petrol.
Have already volunteered for Tuesday evening and Wednesday since we do not celebrate this holiday so we'll see what happens. Last year, my old company worked on the holiday and since we're so busy now, figured I'd volunteer to help out a bit and also to get paid a little more. I'm seriously thinking of swapping out the 4 speakers very soon so can use the extra cash...just not getting into the sound of the stock ones, something is missing! The Civic sounded so much fuller in that the sound really enveloped me...this one I feel left out of the music if that makes any sense at all. I can't put into words what I am not hearing but it must be fixed soon. Besides the mileage, I'm quite happy with my Tuscon...quite happy!!!

_The Sandman _

abacomike

@nyccarguy...the one Mike saw was probably a RWD...

Yes it was, nyccarguy! It had limited options but it was a great looking vehicle. The 435i they had there last week was a sharp looker as well - but very, very pricey! I guess BMW is trying go recoup some of those included maintenance costs - I 'be noticed higher MSRP's on their entire line.

My dealer included the first 2 maintenance pit stops. The first service is an "A" service (10,000 miles) usually cost about $375.00. The next service is a "B" service (20,000 miles) and usually costs about $450.00. But they do not include brake pads or rotors, which BMW covers.

nyccarguy

@abacomike - I think I'm one of the few (percentage wise anyway) that takes full advantage of BMW's full scheduled maintenance. The person who leased their 3er for 10,000 miles per year will mst likely get 2 oil changes in the same 2 1/2 year period that I get an oil change, inspection I service, brake fluid, rear brakes, an oil change, front brakes, an oil change...

nyccarguy

@ isellhondas - another thing I need to consider is that leasing costs an extra $1,000. $795 acquisition fee & $350 for new plates (in CT)

stickguy

my son now seems to be leaning more toward buying a new car. Probably makes more sense to get something nice and just keep it for the duration, even though it will be a 5 year loan vs. a 3 year lease. If the delta can be kept to about $100/month, will likely go that way. Helps that he has adjusted his sights a bit lower (though the 3 he wants ends up being a loaded i).

more flexibility at least if his situation changes in the future. heck, I liked the 3. Maybe I could buy it off of him!

Too bad though it is a new model and pretty popular. No big specials (lease, finance or rebate). So nothing really to scream "buy me now", unless the dealer is desperate for a sale on the 31st.

though now that the TL oil pan gasket is dripping (no more parking in garage or driveway for him!) and the hot restart issue seems to be recurring, it may really be a sign from above to just bit the bullet. though maybe I don't want to keep the damn thing either, but I also have no desire to dump another $600 into it any time soon.

I know that on a spreadsheet it is cheaper to keep an old car nursed along, but at some point, it is not worth the aggravation and worry.

sb55

@nyccarguy said:
isellhondas

The average CRV Buyer is most likely not going to step foot on a BMW lot. If they did, they'd be in for sticker shock. A loaded CRV EXL W/ Navigation stickers for $31,275. I'll bet the average X1 sitting on a dealer's lot stickers for very close to $40K.

Up here in the icy Vermont North country the Honda and BMW dealer are together, so it is easy to cross shop. We actually test drove both a CRV and X-1. My wife thought they were a major step down from the Infiniti G35x. We ended searching for and buying a 2010 CPO BMW 535xiT (wagon) instead. It's the last year for the wagon. Nice car.

Sandman6472

Yep Stick, I agree and that's where I am at with her Mazda, I do not want to throw anymore $ at it. It's time to get something and just move on! Hopefully, she will come to this same conclusion herself!

_The Sandman _

Michaell

@sandman_6472 said:
Yep Stick, I agree and that's where I am at with her Mazda, I do not want to throw anymore $ at it. It's time to get something and just move on! Hopefully, she will come to this same conclusion herself!

_The Sandman _

What's that adage? "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink?"

She'll be ready when she's ready. If she wants to continue to invest her money in maintenance and repairs, that's what she'll do. Doesn't matter what you think. Just like when you bought the Tuscon - you think she was telling her friends how dumb you were for spending the money when you had a perfectly good Civic with low miles?

stickguy

if it is anything like my wife, all it takes is a stranding to make it happen. Let her breakdown on the side of the highway, just once, and I give it 2 days. tops.

corvette

Happy Festivus! I got a lot of problems with you people!

fintail

xwesx

@stickguy said:
if it is anything like my wife, all it takes is a stranding to make it happen. Let her breakdown on the side of the highway, just once, and I give it 2 days. tops.

That is the absolute TRUTH! And, that happens whether you want it to or not.

That's how we ended up with our Forester. My wife simply refused to use the '98 DGC again after it stranded her on two separate occasions w/in about a month's time. She even went so far as to steal my Escort from me for over a month until the Forester arrived... which is saying a lot! She hated my Escort.

Michaell

I just had a long conversation with my sister. Now that she knows I work for Edmunds, I'm getting asked all sorts of questions. Some I can answer, some I can't. Looking for perspective, insight and opinions.

First, the basics - my sis and BIL have 3 boys, ages 16, 13 and 10. The 16 yo just got his license. They have two cars - a late model Navigator with 111K and an '03 330i ZHP with 130K; both are paid for.

BIL has about a 1 mile commute; sis' is 5-6 miles one way.

They are looking to get a 3rd car for them to share. Son would drive the BMW; BIL would drive the Navigator 4 days a week and "new car" on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Sister would drive 'new car' Monday-Thursday to work.

Budget is $25K with about $5K to put down. They won't do new or leases, and they prefer luxury brands. Sister found a 2010 Lexus IS250 (40K for $25K), but BIL prefers the Infiniti G37 coupe. Not predisposed to Acura for some reason.

I'm opening the floor to comments.

qbrozen

Comment? OK... why the hell does he need a car to go 1 mile? That's an incredible waste, IMHO. There is no way I'd pay the insurance alone for that.
Bicycle? Roller skates? Moped? There are just so many other answers. I'd be walking that at least half the time.
If another car is insisted upon, then get the cheapest used economy car possible. I mean... think about that... it needs to go all of about 470 miles a year TOTAL!

Oh, and no way in hell a new driver is getting a ZHP in my house. Not unless I am successful in getting him into racing well before his road license age.

jayrider

I doubt if your post will generate any suggestions ---- doesn't seem like anything folks online here find engaging. Love my 2012 Buick LaCrosse. Paid 34k [msrp 41k] Mine is AWD and loaded and would only be 18-19k trade in so a good buy there. Very upscale interior and smooth quiet ride. 4 year warranty from new.

Mr_Shiftright

Well if they're going to keep comp/collision on that BMW with a 16 year old driving, I would think the insurance costs alone might discourage that idea. A 16 year old's first car should, ideally, be made out of rubber, but barring that, I'm inclined to suggest they at least explore selling the BMW (which is miled up to the danger level for BMWs anyway), and use the money to buy the kid a very decent used car that doesn't require comp/collision. Then for the "new car", which will be used, maybe a low miles G37 would work out just fine.

@Michaell@Edmunds said:
I just had a long conversation with my sister. Now that she knows I work for Edmunds, I'm getting asked all sorts of questions. Some I can answer, some I can't. Looking for perspective, insight and opinions.

stickguy

@Michaell@Edmunds said:

>

I'm opening the floor to comments.

well, I agree with Q that the ZHP won't not be a good idea. If they want something safe, try a volvo. a later S40 or prior generation S60 can be pretty reasonable. And built like a safe tank. Get a NA engine, and nice and slow too!

There is a reason my daughter is driving a non-turbo S40 still, even though it is a "putt putt" mobile!

stickguy

did some looking today. drove a Mazda 3. really liked it. a lot. Nice package. My daughter liked the ILX better for her teenage girl reasons. It was an OK car. Financially, the ILX will be a lot cheaper to lease out, though it would not have the Navi or XM radio.

MSRP wise, the 3 is a vastly better deal if you compare it to a tech package ILX. even the S model 3 is about 3K cheaper, and that has turning HIDs too. and a lot more power.

The Mazda is in pretty tight supply right now, but there are no incentives out on it either, so not a good time to be shopping that. the lady at the Acura dealer desperately wanted a shot to put me in a car today, but I did not give her the opportunity. If I had decided to actually go for it, we could have had some fun letting them negotiate against themselves. She basically said start with the advertised $270/mo S&D and work down.

One problem with the ILX is that the base car is missing XM (important to me!) and only comes with the black leather interior. to get a lighter interior and XM requires the premium package for $2,300, which also adds HIDs and fog lights, so a lot of money for not much return.

my daughter is going to be real disappointed since I am going to hold off for now for me. My son interviewed for an extended job where he is, and if he gets that (and should) will probably make a move early in the month. If he really wanted the ILX would tell him to do it by next week for the lease deal (listed on the Acura site as take delivery by 1/6)

xwesx

All this talk about cars for the kids (or sorta for the kids) cracks me up. I'm going to have to make sure my own children never read this thread. Otherwise, they will justified in their utter feelings of parental depravity.

abacomike

@xwesx ......justified in their utter feelings of parental depravity...

My kids don't have to read this thread to bolster their feelings of parental depravity - I think my kids have those feelings from genetic heredity. That's why I sent them copies of my will to help ease those feelings.

Both my kids had their own new cars when they got their driver's licenses - that's why I always had one or two part time jobs - I needed the extra money for the auto insurance.

But, I still think the feel parentally depraved.

suydam

@qbrozen said:

Oh, and no way in hell a new driver is getting a ZHP in my house. Not unless I am successful in getting him into racing well before his road license age.

Totally agree. New driver should have something big, old, and slow. Like a Buick. Something you only need liability for.

ab348

@stickguy said:
did some looking today. drove a Mazda 3. really liked it. a lot. Nice package. My daughter liked the ILX better for her teenage girl reasons. It was an OK car. Financially, the ILX will be a lot cheaper to lease out, though it would not have the Navi or XM radio.

Have you looked at/considered a Buick Verano? Forget about the Buick name for a minute. All the comparos I have read between it and the ILX place it as the winner. Maybe your daughter would like that for similar reasons. Probably some good GM incentives on it too. And it has XM.

stever

@xwesx said:
My wife simply refused to use the '98 DGC again after it stranded her on two separate occasions w/in about a month's time. She even

My wife must have an adventurous streak - one stranding complete with tow home, and one flashing CEL/limp 20 miles home, both in the last half year. Yet she's still happy to keep the van until it passes 200k. Your wife should be adventurous - look at the spot where she landed.

Michael, my sister didn't really know what kind of outfit this was until she started seeing stories in the Washington Post and NY Times that quoted Edmunds. But, she still rarely takes my advice. I did convince her to fix her Forester and do the timing belt since it was overdue, but if it strands her now, I'll hear no end of it.

xwesx

@Stever - Well, she's a bit adventurous. I mean, she does tolerate me (mostly) day after day. And, she went on our transcontinental trek again... for the fourth time!

But, her adventurousness comes to a grinding halt when it comes to vehicular reliability. Maybe if I didn't keep them running so well in general, she might be a little more acclimated to the possibility of a breakdown?

Sandman6472

So far, all things done on both vehicles are paid from our joint account, we only pay the purchase price from our own accounts so whenever the Mazda needs to have any work done, I end up paying for it. So far, the Tuscon isn't even been here a month so no expenses except gas and tolls.
Stick, the base ILX was a real let down especially since the only colors they had were white and silver. And as I said, it's really a pig with lipstick on it! As for the Verano, it really is a nice vehicle and if they had had that demo already, it might be in my garage right now. Give it a series look if you are even considering the ILX. Drove a Kia Sorento from Orlando to Lauderdale today and was impressed with it especially the mileage...with 4471 on the clock when I started, it did the 200 mile drive in just over a ½ tank. Super comfortable and drove very smoothly...a great job by Kia. Did the same trip in a Passat yesterday and liked that also, also a very comfy and smooth driver. Supposedly doing the same trip tomorrow again and hope to get something fun. There was an Encore today but the person driving it refused to let me have it, kinda pissed about that but such is life. They also had some smaller Jeeps but took the Sorrento since it was the 2nd one in line.
Have volunteered to work Wednesday if they need a body so we'll see. Told them I'd also work late tomorrow night so others could get home on time. Got paid today and even though it wasn't a large check, I'm happy to be working again. Have a lead from a co-worker about a job driving for Manheim but it would require overnight work which is fine with me...not sure how the wife will take this but I'll try anything at this point. We shall see.

_The Sandman _

roadburner

My son drove the 1975 2002 for @1 year, after which we let him "upgrade" to the X3 due to the fact he had not accumulated any tickets or accidents. I do believe his safety record is due in large part to his attending the BMW Performance Center Teen School as well as Street Survival; I am continually amazed by parents who give their kids a high performance car right off the bat without ever giving the slightest thought to driver training.

stickguy

I looked at a Verano a couple of weeks back. Only sat in it (running) in a dark parking lot, but was not overly impressed. Engine sounded very coarse. Maybe a better look in the daylight and a test drive would change my mind. I doubt my son would ever consider it though. He really likes the Mazda. especially since he can't come close to affording a new BMW!

Might be fun to just bring it home and tell my daughter that I bought a Buick for us to share to replace the Volvo. the look on her face would be priceless, but I doubt I would see the car much more often.

at this point, the son will buy something as soon as his job extension comes through. If not before 1/1, so be it. For the Mazda, might be better to wait anyway for supplies to pile up (and incentives to appear, maybe).

Me, I will just stick to my original plan, and wait til daughter goes off to college in August, then decide what I want to replace the "kids fleet". I think the princess can suck it up and use the "putt putt mobile" until then, as it beats walking.

stickguy

@roadburner - thought you would be interested that the Princess got early action acceptance to USC this week. And today got a letter that they are giving her one of the name scholarships. not sure which one yet, but at minimum she gets the in-state rate + some $$ on top. A nice early Xmas present. Still not sure she wants to be 600+ miles away though (that is a long, long drive).

Your son still happy with the place with a semester under his belt?

nyccarguy

@jpp5862 said:

So what is your G37's lease buyout with the new $4000 discount?

nyccarguy

http://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/4254234095.html

Yes it is a lot of money for an '05, but looks great, & under 100K miles

roadburner

@stickguy said:
roadburner - thought you would be interested that the Princess got early action acceptance to USC this week. And today got a letter that they are giving her one of the name scholarships. not sure which one yet, but at minimum she gets the in-state rate + some $$ on top. A nice early Xmas present. Still not sure she wants to be 600+ miles away though (that is a long, long drive).

Your son still happy with the place with a semester under his belt?

Congratulations! Yes, my son is still extremely happy with his choice. My wife and I are also happy; whenever we have called USC we get friendly and competent assistance. No complaints at all.

stickguy

@nyccarguy said:
http://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/4254234095.html

Yes it is a lot of money for an '05, but looks great, & under 100K miles

Yeah, pricey. but pretty rare unit. I guess you are just killing time, since you need a slushbox.

The Acura dealer I was at today had a nice white over black 2013 CPO TL on the floor, special holiday price of $29,000. 7.2K on it. No clue what they go for new, but nice car if you want big.

breld

Dragged my stepdaughter around this afternoon for a little Xmas shopping, and a little car browsing.

No drives, just looked at the Mazda6 and used Accord Crosstours. Still really like the Mazda - the Touring model offers a lot for about $25k - leatherette, blind spot monitoring, touchscreen... Actually really liked the look of the Mazda3 sedan. In previous versions, I always preferred the hatch, but I may actually like the sedan better with this version. For the backseat room though, I'll take the 6.

I can see myself in a Crosstour too - very roomy package, with just enough height for easy ingress and egress. Lots of car for the money on the used lots, as I suspect they have largely been unloved.

Either would be a nice family alternative to the minivan, which I find myself driving more and more for its roominess and comfort.

breld

Funny story with the young Mazda salesperson. When I told him I had a 335, he commented on how he almost bought a manual 335 recently but didn't due to some repair issues. He also previously owned an S4 and mentioned how much he likes manual trannies, which I commended him for.

Obviously a fellow enthusiast, I asked what he ended up with - he says he got a good deal on a trade in at his dealership - a Toyota Avalon.