Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Mr_Shiftright

PDK is pretty neat actually, although I'd never buy one like that. I've tried, god knows I've tried.

Porsches are wonderful cars, and really quite durable machines---they'll go for hundreds of thousands of miles, unlike say a Ferrari which is pretty much a parts car at 60K. On the downside, you have to know these cars really well before buying one. There are a few serious issues that Porsche has never taken responsibility for.

nyccarguy

@roadburner‌

The guy does say he's a 15 year PCA Member. Call him up and tell him who you are (Driving Credentials) and tell him your concerns. He's replaced the clutch. I'm sure the guy knows all about the IMS failure. Maybe he's replaced it "just in case."

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

@roadburner‌

The guy does say he's a 15 year PCA Member. Call him up and tell him who you are (Driving Credentials) and tell him your concerns. He's replaced the clutch. I'm sure the guy knows all about the IMS failure. Maybe he's replaced it "just in case."

That's what I'm thinking...

roadburner

OK, so I e-mailed the owner of the Cayman S- he said that the IMS bearing was not an issue on 2006 and up cars. So... I've been snooping around on Rennlist and Planet 9 and it would seem that he's at least half right- here is a comment from one of the more knowledgeable participants:

Are you correct? Technically yes and no. If a car has an IMS bearing then technically they are all subject to failure. Will the failure rate be 100%? No.

If what you are asking is "Is my IMS bearing on my 2006 Cayman S likely to fail at some point?" Then the answer statistically speaking is NO and the odds of it failing are EXTREMELY low. To my knowledge there have been only a couple of reported (and none confirmed) IMS failures on 2006-2008 Caymans out of all the cars sold because Porsche changed the design and the Cayman got the update which the Boxster also received at some point.

Is the IMS failure a serious problem for cars before this change was made? You betcha and that's why there is a class action lawsuit over it. But don't let the rate of prior failures lead you to falsely believe that the failure rate is the same for Caymans because it isn't.

So when your Porsche service person says you don't have to worry, he's most likely right. Can he guarantee 100%? No, but it's probably upwards of 99% that you'll be fine.

qbrozen

I love the PDK/sport chrono, personally. I'd prefer it at this point, frankly. I'm all about those things that can actually make a car faster, which that package certainly does.

stickguy

You could give me a cayman and I wouldn't turn it down. I like to live on the edge!

kyfdx

I still want a stick... If I was worried about pure speed, I'd be driving an M3, instead of a 330i. If I am still worried about speed, I'll go for a stick-shift Cayman S, before doing a PDK Cayman...

ab348

Getting close to pulling the trigger...

xwesx

ab348 said:

Getting close to pulling the trigger...

All is not lost! Don't do it!

Wait, what were we talking about again?

stickguy

bad news. I went to look at the Volvo wagon I posted the other day, and it had already been snapped up off the internet. I knew it was a good deal! Oh well. Always another used car to come along.

nyccarguy

@stickguy‌

I think you are crazy to look at used Volvos when A) you already have one & an Accord Sport is a sweet lookin ride which you said you liked the way it drove. It's basically zero risk for 3 years. You keep your cars immaculate. You can either buy it out for your daughter as a graduation gift or buy it out and keep it for a year and then sell it.

stickguy

a graduation gift? By the time she is down, we'll be lucky if we can afford gas to drive down and see it.

That was a nice looking Volvo though. And a wagon. I like wagons.

Interesting though. I sent an email to the wife with the 2 cars links. Volvo was gone, but she liked the red Mustang a lot!

and yes I do know that something like that accord on a lease is a cheap cashflow way to go. Will give me something to do in December. Shopping cheap leases. Can spend weeks going to different dealers, telling them to make me an offer I can't refuse! Will be like Gump's chocolates. Who knows what I end up with?

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah well, here's my advice. On any Porsche engine that even HAS an IMS bearing, improved or not---you've got a questionable piece of engineering whirring around in there, so be on the alert at all times. No one is ever safe from this just by the nature of how it is constructed.

roadburner said:

OK, so I e-mailed the owner of the Cayman S- he said that the IMS bearing was not an issue on 2006 and up cars. So... I've been snooping around on Rennlist and Planet 9 and it would seem that he's at least half right- here is a comment from one of the more knowledgeable participants:

Are you correct? Technically yes and no. If a car has an IMS bearing then technically they are all subject to failure. Will the failure rate be 100%? No.

If what you are asking is "Is my IMS bearing on my 2006 Cayman S likely to fail at some point?" Then the answer statistically speaking is NO and the odds of it failing are EXTREMELY low. To my knowledge there have been only a couple of reported (and none confirmed) IMS failures on 2006-2008 Caymans out of all the cars sold because Porsche changed the design and the Cayman got the update which the Boxster also received at some point.

Is the IMS failure a serious problem for cars before this change was made? You betcha and that's why there is a class action lawsuit over it. But don't let the rate of prior failures lead you to falsely believe that the failure rate is the same for Caymans because it isn't.

So when your Porsche service person says you don't have to worry, he's most likely right. Can he guarantee 100%? No, but it's probably upwards of 99% that you'll be fine.

nyccarguy

Shifty

Isn't there some sort of retrofit you can do to MAKE SURE the IMS bearing doesn't fail?

Mr_Shiftright

Nope. It's in the design. It's the wrong type of bearing for the job! The IMS bearing is like an axle bearing--a sealed ball-bearing unit. But over time the bearing's grease seals get hard and lose tension and suppleness--they are subjected to 300 degree engine heat. So then regular engine oil enters the once-sealed bearing race and starts to wash the normal grease lubricant away. This regular engine oil may contain combustion by-products and act as a solvent. Sometimes, if only the bearing support stud breaks from this increased friction and heat, you can intervene and repair the bearing--but once the balls get loose or start to break up it sends debris into the engine. Then the bearing race makes contact with the IMS flange which in turn damages the intermediate shaft---this wonks out the valve timing, and causes a valve to piston collision.

There's no real warning that any of this is happening. It is a silent killer. Sometimes you can cut the oil filter in half and see the debris forming, and save the engine; sometimes you will see an oil leak between the engine and transmission, which could be a tip off----OR---it could be a bad engine rear main seal....ANOTHER defect of this engine. So when you see the oil leak, you have no way of knowing if you're going to be replacing a RMS or rebuilding an engine.

Short answer---yes the odds are not great that you'll be bitten---but if you buy one of these cars without a thorough PPI, you're nuts.

Sorry for the long-winded answer--but it's an interesting subject for potential buyers and sellers.

qbrozen

I think NYCcarguy was referring to that ceramic improved unit. Is that not fail proof either? Probably not, I guess. I mean, its still a bearing, right? And then... what happened in '06? Is that when they changed to a double-wide unit?

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Sorry for the long-winded answer

In your case, "long-winded" = "tons of useful information", so, of course, you are forgiven!

stickguy

looks beautiful. Scares the willies out of me. This baby can eat you out of house and home I suspect.

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/4711218308.html

jayrider

stickguy said:

looks beautiful. Scares the willies out of me. This baby can eat you out of house and home I suspect.

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/4711218308.html

28k would be a fair price. Owner is dreaming, Way too many miles for top dollar.

nyccarguy

I'm content with my current fleet. Just as a side note though, my Mom is staying with us tonight (she's taking care of the kiddos tomorrow while we are in FL) so I put her 2013 X5 in the garage to make things easy on her. Damn that German Iron looks good in my garage:)

stickguy

after spending a bit of time looking at cars lately, I'm becoming more and more disheartened with the whole used car concept. just seems to be a real disconnect between prices and what you seem to get. Hard to have enough time to root out anything that looks like a reasonable deal, but if one actually pops up, it goes quick. And damn, everything seems to have issues.

CL has also become a wasteland. Very few things that aren't older, miled up crap. Plenty of salvage titles (water stains on the carpet, but I swear it works perfect!).

more recent stuff is pretty much all dealers, and they seem to want nearly as much as buying new.

so unless I get lucky somehow, I'm thinking to just find something new to get and keep. Lease or buy, just keep it new!

nyccarguy

I agree. Used car prices are crazy high right now. Even dealers asking prices for those desirable CPO models are insane even though they are just asking prices.

stickguy

so, after my tirade about used cars, I find this one that kind of tickles my fancy (this is the place that had the real good deal on a 2013, since sold. Oh well).

Seems like a reasonable price, at least based on Edmunds appraisal. Could serve the purpose for some years without depreciating much. Though of course, being a VW, may get you another way! But 2 MY newer and 40K fewer miles than my Volvo.

http://www.auditurnersville.com/detail-2009-volkswagen-jetta_sedan-se-used-12619985.html

tommister2

stickguy said:

so, after my tirade about used cars, I find this one that kind of tickles my fancy (this is the place that had the real good deal on a 2013, since sold. Oh well).

Seems like a reasonable price, at least based on Edmunds appraisal. Could serve the purpose for some years without depreciating much. Though of course, being a VW, may get you another way! But 2 MY newer and 40K fewer miles than my Volvo.

http://www.auditurnersville.com/detail-2009-volkswagen-jetta_sedan-se-used-12619985.html

There are a few good deals out there but they can be hard to find. The pictures look good on this one. Good luck!

qbrozen

Pretty good deal as is. About $8k auction fodder. Would I want that more than an S40, though? ehhhhh...

Also, in relation to our recent discussion, is it worth paying near $10k for a 5-yr-old with 65k miles compared to $16k for a brand new 2014 1.8T SE at 0% for 60 mos?

kyfdx

I do not love that VW 5-cylinder..

Sandman6472

The wife drove the Mazda last week and said she's ready to finally let it go. She said she's o k with the smaller engine of the Accent so if I were a betting man, I am predicting that there will be a new 2015 Accent in the garage by the 1st of the year, if not sooner. I think the Elantra is the better choice for her and her wants but not my choice here. The time frame is still the Black Friday weekend through the end of the year with December 31st looking as the best day for delivery.
On top of that, the '08 will need new rubber very soon so will start searching for a brand that will give us a good bang for the buck. Once the vehicle goes back to my daughter, it will go back to being used under 2k miles/year but with all the rain we have down here, I want a good rain weather tire.

The Sandman

stickguy

Sandy, you know where I stand on this. Twice the car for barely more money

stickguy

As to the Jetta, it would not replace the Volvo. Just supplement since I need to expand the fleet anyway. And where are you getting brand new fir that price? Though that is a strippo SE with cheap radio and no roof. maybe a stick. Still seems low. And who knows if any left.

16k is about 17.5 OTD. Put down $2,500 and left with $250/mo for 5 years. Not much more than cheap leasing. Hmmm.

xwesx

Fuel economy rating on that Jetta is pretty pathetic by modern standards, stick. Of course, you're not likely to put all that many miles on it, but that would give me pause even if it weren't a used VW.

stickguy

I think that model is underrated. Heck I gad a passat rental that averaged 29 in mixed driving!

I probably won't end up looking at it, but at least something plausible popped up.

At least until Q finds the mythical $16,000 new one!

tifighter

Everytime I look at used ads, I remember why I usually end up going new instead. The value just isn't there most of the time.

suydam

Sandman -- did she drive a new Mazda 3 yet? If not, why not? Accent is not recommended by CR at this time due to poor crash test results.

qbrozen

I looked it up on truecar, stick. Automatic SE 1.8T sedan. Are there anymore such 2014s? I have no idea.

Edit: the dealer by where I work has over 30 leftover 2014s. 1 of those is an SE automatic in white.

stickguy

Hmm. Just went there. Really are showing dealers committing to $4500 off sticker. Problem is, do I want a stripped Jetta! Not sure I could get a lower equipped version of the car my kid bought. That just seems wrong somehow.

Sandman6472

She plans to drive the Mazda3 before she makes her decision but since she's been using the kid's '08 Accent since mid July, she's loving the smaller size even though I think she needs to go compact with either the Elantra or the Mazda3. She's quite determined to get exactly what she wants so all I can do is suggest and test drive the final vehicle...after that, I'm out here!

The Sandman

ab348

Sandy, the Accent is a very poor choice for many reasons. Just saying.

If she wants small, the new Honda Fit would be a good choice. Versatile too.

stickguy

Anyone that drives an accent and 3 back to back and still picks the accent is IMO automotively beyond hope! Considering there is no real $ issue forcing the cheaper car.

But, her money her car. As long as I (well, I guess in this case sandy!) don't have to ever ride in it, who cares.

stickguy

The fit was surprisingly nice to sit in. But I think she is sedan only.

Michaell

stickguy said:

The fit was surprisingly nice to sit in. But I think she is sedan only.

Yep, that's what I remember.

@sandman_6472‌ - what about the Chevrolet Sonic? Sedan, similar in size to the Accent, but IMO a nicer car.

breld

With those deep discounts on a '14 Jetta, that is a good deal - a lot of car for the money with that 1.8T.

Having said that, I wouldn't necessarily shy away from that '09 Jetta - I test drove several of those with the 2.5l when we were shopping for the step-daughter, and I was pleasantly surprised at the engine. Ditto on the used Passats I drove. Of course, I did end up going for the 1.8T in the end. I do believe that 2.5l is pretty bullet-proof - I wouldn't say the same about a Jetta with 65k miles on it with the 2.0 turbo.

breld

Last night I replaced the engine air filter and cabin air filter in the Odyssey.

I know, I know, you're shocked at the extent of my automobile repair & maintenance skill level. But I was pretty pleased with how easy it was, in contrast to the silly prices the dealer charges for those service items.

stever

It was nine screws on the old Quest for me to do that just to remove the cowl. Plus the wiper arms had to come off.

Not difficult but naturally one of the screws never worked right again after the first swap.

I hope yours gets replaced through the glove box.

stickguy

Odyssey is easy. Unhook and drop glovebox, and pops right out

I will never do my Volvo. For some odd reason, you have to disconnect the brake pedal. I ain't doing that, and dealer charges something like $100

qbrozen

I have no problem with the 2.5 VW engine. A buddy let me take his Rabbit for a spin at the autocross with his one time. I was pleasantly surprised.

stickguy

the 2013 Passat rental we had last month was a 2.5. Certainly not thrilling, but overall worked fine. Decent performance if you punched it, and faded away on the highway to a background hum. Plus returned respectable MPG. Since the Jetta is a lighter car, should probably be even peppier. The 1.8T is certainly a better engine, but like someone else noted, on a used one the low tech tractor engine is probably safer!

corvette

stickguy said:

Seems like a reasonable price, at least based on Edmunds appraisal. Could serve the purpose for some years without depreciating much. Though of course, being a VW, may get you another way! But 2 MY newer and 40K fewer miles than my Volvo.

http://www.auditurnersville.com/detail-2009-volkswagen-jetta_sedan-se-used-12619985.html

That Jetta looks nice. It has heated seats and a sunroof. Radio controls on the steering wheel is about the only other feature I would want, other than a better engine than the 2.5.

stickguy

to me, on an older car, the simple engine is a plus.

rny421

@stickguy: I think there are a lot of good deals, you just have to be willing to take a little road trip in my opinion. You're lucky that you're near some major cities, therefore you might find something within only a 3 hour drive. I went 6 hours to get my S60, and think I did pretty well.

What about a Buick Verano? I had one as a rental and it was actually a great car. Quiet, smooth, peppy, liked the 2.4 engine better than the cruze's 1.4T. Not sure how close this one is to you, but it's pretty "cheap" and loaded. Although if I remember, you're like me and a sunroof is a "must have" which I don't think this has.

stickguy

not all that far away. But too far to quick pop over. The time constraints make it hard to get to stuff quick, and the usual problem is the good stuff goes quick.

that one does look pretty nice. But up at that price range, would probably end up going new (or CPO) instead.