Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

VW Jetta TDI



  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    I'd like to know the invoice price on the next house I buy so that I can be informed and pay less or maybe my next refrigerator. I don't think we necessarily have the "right to know" invoice prices. The fact that they have been "outed" and published is a boon to us as car buyers and I'm not knocking it. However, I don't view it as a right to know what anybody selling anything paid for it themselves.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Since AdBlue solidifies at -11°C and decomposes at an accelerated rate at temperatures above 25°C, storage and filling systems must be designed to assure of a temperature range of between 30 and -11°C.

    That's like 10F and 78F. Plus having to check level and add after each fill up or two. $200 every 7k!!! That's too much hassle and too much money. Where do you keep the extra Adblue to keep it from freezing in your car.....under your armpit? Or does the car have some special heater that would keep it warm(and run your battery down) while it's parked at the airport in January!

    Smelly oily hands, hunting for D2, flucuating D2 prices and paying more up front are enough to go diesel....don't add all this other stuff.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,333
    To me a couple of issues seem to be at work here (strictly from a "consumer's .02 cent point of view")

    So if you are going to introduce an "Accord" diesel for example, you really want as wide appeal as you can. I am swagging it is purely a numbers thang.

    By way of explanation, I follow the manual transmission thread. There are sparse references to the passenger vehicle fleet 20% being manual (50.08 M), and total MY sales being @ 10%, each MY, ( with some claiming less than 10%).

    While you have to give credit to Honda offering manual transmissions as part of the line up for almost 4 decades, it would seem logical they would want to sell as many diesels as possible, without exceptions like... it only comes with a manual.

    Another might be they do not have a killer automatic transmission application, that showcases the diesel. As an on topic example, the 03 TDI Jetta automatic transmission (aka slush box) yielded (far) less mpg than the 5 speed manual transmission (which actually SHOULD have been a 6 spd manual transmission). The DSG or automatic "manual" transmission, aka computer aided dual clutch pack, sports -1 or -2 mpg off a 6 speed manual transmission.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    No manufacturer in their right mind would bring a new (probably expensive) model into the N.A. market offering only a manual tranny. If you look at just cars costing over 25K, which an Accord Diesel would definitely fall, I would think that the % of manuals is probably lower than 5%. Econoboxes skew % of manual/autos.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    I don't think we necessarily have the "right to know" invoice prices.

    In some respect I tend to agree with you, however, if I snoop around enough and ask the right people at the right places, I would think I could come up with the information.

    Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book post what I assume are true invoice prices when you research a vehicle, so it’s not that the information is top secret. Then again?
  • I just got a JSW TDI with optional cross bars to the roof rails. I plan on getting a cargo box (Thule or Yakima) but not certain how long a box it can accomodate w/o blocking the rear hatch or hanging too far forward. Anyone with a Jetta wagon want to weigh in? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Any brand preference?
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Everybody knows there are many reputable websites that publish invoice prices. I'm just commenting on the perception that we have the right to know what the person selling something paid for it. You kind of hit the nail on the head when you said "if I snoop around enough". Snoop being the key word here.

    If you were selling used cars and someone asked "before I make an offer I want you to tell me what you paid for the vehicle". Would you balk or say "oh well, it's your right to know so here it is". I don't think so.

    Used cars are a good example. Try to find out what a dealer paid for a used car. They make thousands sometimes on a used car transaction.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 57,334
    Nah, it's not a conspiracy....diesel cars are very difficult to market and sell in the USA--that's the real problem. Americans don't generally like diesel cars. They need to be "trained" to like them, which takes lotsa marketing $$$.

    It's a resistant market--it's not an open-arms market like the hybrids, which were immediately thought of as new, innovative, hi-tech, "green" etc.

    Just try to use the words "green' and "diesel" to the average American car buyer and you'll get a skeptical look I think.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,333
    To me it just goes to show all the drive to lessen dependence on oil is... just hype.

    VW gets a very respectable 24 mpg on its gasser Jetta's. The like model (diesel 09 Jetta TDI, DSG) on the other hand is almost literally vilified for getting 38 mpg or 58% BETTER fuel mileage !!!!!?????

    (we get a range of 39-45, more like 42/43 mpg)

    This is not even to mention that RUG to PUG is 76 to 122% MORE !!! ( per mile driven)

    So just as long as diesel is an option.... suffer in silence ;)

    I just filled the 03 Jetta TDI this morning. The last couple of tank fulls, I have been running around in "italian tune" mode. This tank yielded 50.7 mpg :surprise: I did keep it under 90 mph !!! :shades: I am guessing the computer re calibrated the fuel flows and adjusted accordingly. :shades:
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    I have read all the car reviews on the Honda Diesel testers they featured, and they got rave reviews from all the gear head, leadfooted, lets trash it, car writers that got behind the wheel.
    It had tons of tourqe, quiet and smoke free. It featured a 2.2 ltr engine with a Honda invented exhaust system that worked very much like the VW 09 Jettas.
    A big enough family hauler that no one mentioned claustraphobia, teeny cup holders, or cramped quarters back in the, cheap section.
    No, they all marvelled at the fuel gauge that didn't move, seemed to be broken or welded on 'full'.
    I think North American's would buy anything that got 60 mpg at 70 mph even if it burnt bat [non-permissible content removed].
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,333
    ..."I think North American's would buy anything that got 60 mpg at 70 mph even if it burnt bat [non-permissible content removed]. "...

    Now I would (personally) NOT disagree with you. ....

    BUT... the majority DOES disagree with you !! 2% of the passenger vehicle fleet is diesel= 5.108 M. 75% are " light" diesel trucks - 3.831 M = 1.277 M diesel CARS !!

    75 mph with bursts to 80-85 mph and over two tank fulls, yielded 59 mpg !!!... Who CARES !!!???
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    OK ruking1,

    I think you must have the all time mpg/mph best numbers on this forum.

    Not to dump sludge on your 03 Jetta Speedster, but consider what Honda's been busy at out on the race track.

    "U.K., – Honda’s new Accord 2.2 i-CTDi Sport has this week set no fewer than 19 world speed records and achieved 3.07 litres / 100 km (92 mpg) fuel economy to boot. British racing driver Robin Liddell and freelance journalist Iain Robertson were part of the European record-setting team."

    VW has this Diesel Family Sedan market all to themselves (for now) and I think if they start trying to fix what ain't broke, they will lose all they have gained since the mid 2000's with TDI,s...i.e. (rumor alert) requiring the 2010 Jettas to fill up on Urea every 7000 miles ($200)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,333
    ..."Not to dump sludge on your 03 Jetta Speedster"..

    No worries here ! It has been tdi GURU inspected (during the 100,000 miles TB/WP change interval) !

    1. No intake manifold or EGR "sludge," despite using LSD (500 to 140 ppm) most of its mileage at that point (75% of 100,000 miles) . Thanks to the EPA and CA carbs etc. This 03 TDI was designed to run on ULSD (15 ppm to 5 ppm).

    2. Clean as a whistle camshaft (original tool markings) and innards with 25,000 miles oil and oil filter changes !! :blush: I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy, as I do not do 30,000 mile OCI's. :blush:

    My take has advocated MORE oems' putting more and varied diesels models on the US market ! I only cycle back to VW, because this is a VW diesel thread.

    I actually would like to put the Honda Accord 2.2 i CTDi through its paces. to see so called "real world" mpg.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,080
    The Honda Accord had me excited about Honda once again after writing them off 30 years ago as [non-permissible content removed] Junk. The whole bit about the auto transmission version failing the emissions test smells to me. The powers know that a Honda diesel Accord getting close to 50 MPG would be a killer. Money talks even to Honda executives. The people that control CARB and the EPA DO NOT WANT A LOT OF DIESEL CHOICES. The VW TDI is just tossing a little steak at the faithful few diesel lovers. Myself being one of them.
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    I read in one piece about the Honda Diesel speed tests, that the drivers of the vehicles got the 92 mpg figure when they drove them back to the city...

    If that was the case, I wonder just how modified they were by the factory for the Speed Tests, and how much of that 92 mpg number is from the 'Outer Limits'.

    In any case it's a shame that some sort of Diesel Conspiracy does seem to exist in the U.S.
    Everywhere you look people are knocking them using stale data from the 8o's and just downright stupid remarks.
    They are even usuing the oldest BS in the book to try and keep a lid on the subject, implying that diesel cars are somehow, "Un-American" in the 'comments' on published Jetta TDI tests in magazines and internet articles.
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    I just got rid of the cargo box (Thule) on my Tdi Wagon. It takes 4 people (depending on size) to put it on and off. If you move it forward enough, it clears rear hatch. It's never too forward. I would go with Thule rather than Yakima (but that is my preference - I always had the largest Thule box on my cars). You have to remove the antenna though... But the wagon does not look right with the huge Thule box on top!
    Then I have tried Mont Blanc cargo tray/platform and got rid of that one as well (too noisy when driving with open moon roof and too small to load anything on it.
    I think I am going to try now Westin aluminum cargo tray - the large size.
    If that does not work, I have a trailer hitch now installed and I will try some of the platforms in the rear. It's an on going project now. Haven't found the solution yet.
  • longo2longo2 Posts: 347
    OK, I found the item and here it is. Now as I re-read it, it is even more depressing than before. Seems that everything about the Honda diesel speed records was on the up and up......................

    "Amongst the speed records set, which were all achieved in Production Car Class B (2000 – 2500 cc), were 133.04 mph (1 mile flying start), 84.25 mph (1 mile standing start) and an average speed of 130.38 mph over a 24-hour endurance period. These records were all set at Papenburg high-speed oval test track in north-west Germany on 1 and 2 May, and are all subject to FIA ratification.

    Two production cars, randomly selected by FIA officials, were used to undertake the speed records, and apart from the fitting of roll-cages, racing harnesses and radio equipment for track-to-pits communication, no other modifications were made to the cars.

    Following the speed record attempts, the same two cars were then driven 419 miles from Papenburg test track to Wiesbaden, near Frankfurt in order to complete the fuel economy run. The route comprised of a mixture of motorway and non-motorway driving, during which one of the Accords achieved a staggering 92 imperial mpg (US mpg=~76.6) average.

    The project, whose aim was to demonstrate the performance and economy of the Accord i-CTDi, was a joint production between Honda, the FIA and Italian-based JAS Motorsport, who managed fuelling and pit-stops.

    Honda UK’s driver in the speed record attempt, Robin Liddell, who has previously raced at Le Mans 24-hours, as well as the American Le Mans Series and the BRDC British GT championship, commented: "The car’s performance is very impressive, demonstrated by the records we’ve achieved. Honda has made real steps forward in styling, ergonomics and interior design with the new Accord Diesel and now has a package that can take on the best cars in its class."

    Too bad we won't get a chance to drive one.
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    You may be right there but all it needs is to tax the gas the way they tax it in EU and give a break on diesel tax and the public would go for it.
    In many EU countries some people now mix diesel with cooking oil half and half to save money. EU is considering clamping down on this "tax evasion" - they may tax McDonalds and other fast foods that sell used oil through back doors and people are mixing it with diesel (my friend from UK that works for Aston Martin and drives a Subaru Forester diesel there is telling me....).
    Problem with hybrids is that technology is now already old and aging. There hasn't been any new technology introduced in the past 10 years, since hybrids were introduced. Another argument is that most cells (if not all) come from China - so instead of being dependent on Middle East oil we will be dependent on Red Chinese... seems like an average American would rather be dependent on China than Middle East, right?
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    VW gets a very respectable 24 mpg on its gasser Jetta's. The like model (diesel 09 Jetta TDI, DSG) on the other hand is almost literally vilified for getting 38 mpg or 58% BETTER fuel mileage !!!!!?????

    If you use the EPA average mpg for the 09 Jetta gasser, why not use the same criteria when comparing to the 09 Jetta TDI? The EPA avg mpg for the TDI is 33mpg, not 38mpg. Where does the 38mpg come from. Is it some kind of official statistic or is it the result of several TDI affectionados. Some TDI owners get substantially better than the EPA avg and I believe there are probably some gasser Jetta owners that get better than the EPA avg as well. I'm not bashing TDIs by any means but I just like to see statements that appear as fact not be backed by a few people that either are hypermilers or close to it. I see one guy on the Camry forum that is consistenty getting 40mpg out of a reg gasser I4 Camry. That is not the norm by any means and is questionable in my opinion.

    The EPA website has the Jetta gasser getting a little better than the stated avg with 2 drivers reporting. The Jetta TDI has an average of 40mpg with 21 drivers reporting. While that sounds great and I have no reason to doubt them, it is still just 21 drivers out of thousands which may be as small a sample as 1% or less.
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalPosts: 251
    I just got a new Jetta TDI sedan with DSG. Since this is my first diesel I want to break it in right. How should I drive it over the next 1000 miles to get the best results?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,333
    Not an issue, then use 33/34 mpg. It is STILL 42% better !!!! ???

    I get an average of 42/43 (79%) and I am NO hyper miler. Indeed the thing will not be broken in for @ least another 3,000 miles, with 10,000 to 60,000 miles "full" break in. So there is an expectation the mpg will go up from there.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,333
    You may want to re-think break in to a MINIMUM of 10,000 miles. Full break in more like 10,000 to 60,000 miles.

    Break-In Period
  • ndmike88ndmike88 Posts: 155
    Anyone use it? Does it really help with the TDI performance? I know it boosts the cetane in the diesel fuel but does it really work? Is it VW approved?
  • cosmocosmo Posts: 203
    ruking1's link is right on. A no-brainer method is to drive in sport mode for the first 5K. Do not go on any long freeway cruises and do not concern yourself with fuel mileage during the first 5K.
  • jogousajogousa Posts: 402
    anyone use what Mike?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,333
    Yes. It is supposed to help with TDI performance. After 125,000 miles, I can tell no difference.
    I do use it primarily for:
    1. H20 emulsification
    2. fuel pump lubricity

    These are all chemical reasons I can NOT see.

    3. It does boost the cetane,

    4. boosts power

    5. offers high detergency

    6. better mpg

    7. cleans injectors and combustion system

    but I really have to take their word for it.

    VW's official recommendation: no additves are necessary or required.
  • tdifuntdifun Posts: 10
    I got my Gray DSG TDI jetta from Fitzmall for $20,992. Paided for shipping and was still thousands under what my local dealership could/would do.
  • jim1977jim1977 Posts: 14
    Now you have me worried. I don' want to add a rumor onto a rumor, since we don't really know if they will go the urea system route in 2010, but I also find it hard to believe that it is due to fuel economy. I am wondering if it is due to a maintenance problem with the DPF? I know that they delayed the introduction of the 2009 models (or was it 2008?) for several months until they worked out bugs in meeting the U.S. emission requirements, though nobody ever detailed what those were.

    I was on the verge (or so I thought) of buying a 2009 TDI, but don't want to be orphaned with a long-term maintenance problem. Maybe it is all a bad dream and doesn't really amount to anything.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,333
    On there has literally been ZERO defects on the 09 DPF. There are pretty strong recommendations to use low SAPS motor oil. aka (VW specifications 504/507)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 57,334
    There will always be people on either side of the bell curve, but I think you are the exception on the positive side, not the rule, from what I'm reading. Still no complaints about EPA stats on the TDI. I feel confident I could also best the EPA scores.

    Personally, aside from the gear heads and aficionados, I don't think more than 10% of Americans would buy a diesel even if they guaranteed you 50 mpg @ $5 a gallon. Why? Because as fuel costs go up, gas engine efficiency, aerodynamic design and weight-saving technology goes up---historically this has always been true at least.

    so I guess I'm saying that diesel tech is not a solution, but rather an alternative out of many alternatives.

    for some however, the perfect solution --people like me, who need some cargo capacity, like in a sportwagon, and who drive 20000 miles a year.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

Sign In or Register to comment.