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Paying more than MSRP for (new) Hybrids, Depreciation/Value of used Hybrids




    "One aspect I expect around the corner is "rationing". Boy! That ought to shake things up when and if that ever happens. "

    I think we we see more of a self-imposed rationing, invoked by higher taxes. As the price of fuel continues to increase, people will self-impose more limited driving. Even at $3.00 per gallon people are driving for better mpg, buying less SUVs, and taking less unnecessary trips.

    When the price gets to $10.00 per gallon, there will be no need for rationing. When it takes $75 to fill up your Prius, imagine what the Hummer will cost, if they still exist!



    P.S.- Have you notice the latest diesel price controls ?
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    It cost me $60USD to fill up a Ford Focus in Dover, England. I wasn't happy!
  • Oh Boy!! I hate to admit it but I too finally broke the $30.00 barrier with a 11.1 gallon fill-up in my '04 Prius (578 miles on my tripometer). Of course my son laughed at me when he said ...he should be so lucky. His Nissan Armada cost over $112.00 to fill-up and it won't last a week.
    Railroadjames(less gas..more miles) ;)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    "If you can afford a big boat, you don't need a Prius. End of story."

    Oh, I wouldn't say that. Some people have a large truck or SUV just for towing the boat & etc. Such people might want a more economical car for around town. And if they can afford the boat, they can also afford a Prius.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Ya never know. I don't see too may Prius in the marina that's near my house. Most of the boats are parked there for the season. All I see are Bimmers, Mercs and Lexus.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204

    Here is one man who is training mechanics to work on Priuses. Goes to emphasize my point that just like every other techological advance, there will be indpendent shops who can work on Hybrids - it will NOT be a "dealer only" service option in coming years.

    "Dunn will co-host the radio show on WICN with Labelle and Craig Van Batenburg, who teaches mechanics how to service hybrids. Labelle, a 61-year-old native of Quebec who lives in Hudson, has had an interesting career path, to say the least. In 1981, he said he co-founded Cambridge Isotope Laboratories, a developer of stable isotopes and chemical compounds. Labelle retired in 1988 after the company went public. He sold his shares in the labs around 1995, he said. After retiring, he spent time consulting, focusing on investments and traveling before founding the Hybrid Center six years ago. It wasn't money that caused the career shift, he says; he already has enough to live on. He was sick of playing golf, and wanted something new.
    "By building a hybrid center they gave me an opportunity to expound my beliefs and give people an alternative solution to transportation," Labelle said."
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Not a bad idea! Look how well computer techs are doing today.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    "Ya never know. I don't see too may Prius in the marina that's near my house. Most of the boats are parked there for the season. All I see are Bimmers, Mercs and Lexus."

    Are they environmentally friendly sailboats, or evil cabin cruisers?
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    There are many published articles from many news networks that buying a hybrid does not make any financial sense.
    USA Today Hybrid Myth
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    You would need 16 years to get your money back.

    But even if drivers maximize their fuel savings and get the full 13-mpg benefit in the Hybrid, they'd need about 16 years of 15,000-mile annual travel before the gasoline savings—estimated at $2.25 a gallon—would recoup the $4,300 extra they paid for the Hybrid over the Civic LX.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    "Pull out your calculators. Let's say I was interested in a 2006 Honda Civic — because, well, I am — and I was debating between the sedan and the hybrid. With a navigation system, the hybrid costs $23,350; a similarly equipped Civic EX sedan costs $20,560. The hybrid premium equals $2,790.

    The combined fuel economy of the non-hybrid is 35 mpg; the hybrid, 50 mpg, a theoretical difference of 15 mpg. In five years of average driving (15,000 miles per year), I would save 643 gallons, or $1,929 (assuming a gas price of $3 per gallon), with the hybrid. Combined with the current tax deduction (a savings of $580 in my tax bracket) I recoup 90% of the hybrid premium in five years. If I were to buy the Honda Civic hybrid in January 2006, the numbers look even better. The federal tax deduction becomes a credit worth $2,100. Combined with my fuel savings I actually come out about $1,200 ahead.

    Now, put your calculators away, because the point is not whether I, or you, will recoup penny-for-penny the hybrid investment, since the compensations are not exclusively monetary. The hybrid haters actually have a valid point when they declaim the technology as touchy-feely. Its appeal is emotional, but that's not the same as irrational."

    From this recent LA Times article:,0,917822.story?col- l=la-home-headlines&track=hppromobox
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I'd like to know what you're talking about. You post makes no sense whatsoever. The Prius I intend to buy gets 50mpg on the highway and costs around 25k NET of the tax credit I'll get. If the Prius wasn't available, I'd probably end up getting another near luxury sedan like I've had in the past. I'm on the PLUS side baby!!!! Do you love it!!!!! Can't wait to get mine!!
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Do you intend to get the 06??
  • That is an old article June 2004 when diesel was cheaper than regular by 20-30 cents. Now it costs 20-30 cents more than premium.

    Also while the VW TDI is a fule efficient diesel it is not as reliable as a Toyota Prius.

    The "Usa Today Hybrid Myth" maybe an ole-wive's tale itself purposfully manipulating facts.

    The Myth buster,

  • the hybrid costs $23,350; a similarly equipped Civic EX sedan costs $20,560. The hybrid premium equals $2,790.

    One little problem with these numbers.
    As we all know, the hybrid will probably sell for MSRP or more, but the EX sedan won't.
    Nobody really would pay MSRP for a plain ole Civic, new redesign or not.
    This would make the hybrid premium well over the 2790 you quote.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Regardless of how much more the hybrid might cost, it still pays in the long run. Every mile you drive is gas money saved, and every gas price jump is something you will not fear.
  • "it still pays in the long run."

    I agree it's just than some people are more interested in a sprint than a marathon ;)

    An ole miler,

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You need to do more research on your own mr hrao because reading the press only and taking it at face value will give you a shallow view of reality. Possibly the writer was writing the piece to be provocative to generate sales. Maybe someone in a large company not related to hybrid development 'encouraged' those writers to put the piece in CNN or USA Today. It happens all the time.

    This you can verify for yourself and become your own reporter:
    Standard Prius w/ Pkge #4 - $24500 ( S+C A/B, VSC, SKS )
    Standard LE 4c Camry...... - $22400 ( S+C A/B, VSC )
    Standard LX 4c Accord...... - $22400 ( S+C A/B, VSC )
    With gas @ $2.75/gal:
    The Prius owner will 'recover' his $2000 premium in a little over 2 yrs at 15K mi/yr...At 25K mi/yr it will be recovered in 18 mos. I drive 45K mi/yr and I will recover it in 10 months.

    The $500-600 Tax incentive in 2005 for the Prius balances any discount you can get on an '05 ICE Camry/Accord. But NEXT year the Prius likely will be LESS expensive vis-a-vis the Camry/Accord due to the larger Tax Credit.

    This really is a no brainer for some drivers and it's not a myth. But it is not for all drivers yet and it's not intended to be for all drivers at this time.

    You cant compare the Prius to the Civic/Corolla because they are not the same class of vehicle or have the same features. You dont compare a Civic to an Acura do you?

    If you only want fuel efficiency and are willing to give up something like ride or size or MILES (?) then consider comparing a Certified USED Prius to a Civic/Corolla. Then you can get a midsized '04 Pkge #4 Prius w/ 30-35K miles at about the same price as a new Compact Civic/Corolla and still save money on fuel in the long run.

  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    As of Jan 1st we also have to factor in the US tax credit. That should be nice!!
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    The same argument can be used for many other car purchases. Should I get the V6 or the 8? Sometimes that can be thousands!! Is there a payback? NOPE!!! Hybrids make the most sense. Can't wait to get mine!!!
  • KDHsyder,

    What does an ICE only Prius cost ? That's what we should compare the Prius too.

    The prius is not exactly anything, not really in the Camry class but almost, Not really in the Accord class but almost, Not really in the Civic class but almost, not really in the Corolla calss but almost. Do you comapre it to other midsize because it has a hatchbach which without it would be compact, Do you compare it to economy ? Do you compare it based on price? Do you compare it to other hybrids? Do you compare it based on perfromance? Do you compare it to other hatchbacks? Do you compare it based on features? It seems to have some luxury features: Xexon, smart card, Nav and some truly ecnomy features: no power seat, no sun roof, no fully dusk-to-dawn snesing automatic lights. So what do you call it a hatch-ecolux-hybrid class? Some compare it to a duck-billed platerpus

    MSRP pricing is pretty funny way to compare since the Prius sells at MSRP and all the others you compared it to are discounted.

    Again , I say the olny real car you can compare it to isd the non-hybrid version of the Prius, which doesn't exist.

    On a more serious note, is the pricing and option packages available for the 2006 Prius. When will they be available ?

    How about telling Toyota, that people want manual shift hybrids as an option!

    Cruis'n in 6th,

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Pls MidCow..

    (2) The Prius has been around long enough to determine high battery replacement costs.

    A statement without supporting supporting facts. As of today most Gen1 Prius are entering their 6th yr of service with on average 70-90K miles. If any batteries or segments have had to be replaced the cost to the buyer is - ZERO! They are still under warranty.

    As you know from reading other posts -as I am sure you have - the entire battery doesnt fail all at once if it fails at all. The replacement cost per segment is about $100-150 each. This is a non issue at the moment unless you can provide data about significant numbers of Prius battery replacements.

    Your driving preferences are entirely your own. But unsubstantiated statements are not necessary.

    On the subject topic it is very difficult for dealers to get Prius' back in trade. Most preowned ones are given to other family members when the original owner opts for a new one or they are sold retail in the paper. We've had 2 this entire year.; an '04 and an '03. The '04 went for ~$20K ( pkge #2 ) and the '03 went last weekend for $18300 ( I traded it for $16900 + 600 reconditioning and Certification costs ).
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I'd say content wise, a loaded Mazda 3 is pretty close to the Prius. It even has heated seats and leather. It doesn't have stability control or smart entry/exit,CVT or a few other goodies. The Mazda 3 is a great little car. Unfotunately it gets HALF the mileage (on average) that the Prius gets. If the Prius was not available, I'd consider the Mazda 3/Volvo S40. Great little cars.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    On a more serious note, is the pricing and option packages available for the 2006 Prius. When will they be available ?

    You are right of course that no ICE Prius exists. In this absence the best comparison is to a Camry/Accord/Altima due to the interior room ( passengers and cargo ), ride comfort due to its longer wheel base and speed ( same 0-60 as a 4c Camcord ).

    The Prius is sold at sticker but a similarly equipped Camcord is not far under sticker. If one wanted a Camcord with all the safety features of a Package 2 Prius the transaction price now is likely in the $21K+ range from a $22500 sticker price.

    I've seen the new package contents on the '06 which are being built as we speak. They will be shipped early next month to arrive on the WC around Thanksgiving and on the EC a few days later. I've heard that pricing will be announced at the end of OCT.(?)

    We already have quite a few orders for the '06 with prices 'To Be Determined' but with delivery specified for AFTER 1-1-06. I will keep you informed if I hear more. :)

  • kdhspuder said: " and speed ( same 0-60 as a 4c Camcord ). "

    Well actually that is way off! The Prius at best is 1.3 seconds slower and at worst 2.6 seconds slower

    Let's take an unbiased source Auto.ConsumerGuide reports:

    Prius ( auto) 10.5

    4-cyl Camry (auto) 9.2 (4-speed, 5-speed should be faster)
    4-cyl Camry (manual) estimate= 8.7
    4-cyl Accord (auto) 8.6
    4-cyl Accord (manual) 7.9

    Pricing right now on 2006 models on all iPriuss close to MSRP, But alreay Camry's and Accords can be had for less than MSRP and in six months closer to invoice. That is several thoiusand dollar difference.

    Again I ask , where is my manual shift Prius. Can I special order ? iwould be thier prototype tester.


  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Don't hold your breath. It ain't gonna happen. Buy a used Insight.
  • The point is there is not a car out there that is an investment. No matter how much, or little, you have paid for a vehicle you are never gonna get your money back. The best way to recoup some of your money is pay cash and drive the car until the wheels are falling off. If you don't have the cash, finance only for a few years and keep the car until the wheels fall off completely off.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Hybrids are the only cars now that actually retain MOST of their value. That won't be the case for long. My sister's Prius has retained nearly 80% of the purchase value after 2 yrs and 35k miles. Not bad!!!!!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Used HCH, 2005 CVT, 15,000 miles on it, $22K purchased at the dealer.

    That's holding about 99% of the new value after 15K miles.

    What a crazy world !!! :D :shades:
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    I agree. If you own a hybrid >2 years old, now may be a great time to sell it for top dollar and purchase a new one after Jan 1st.

    Does anyone know if a second owner is elibile for the 2006 tax credit or does this only apply towards first time titled?
This discussion has been closed.