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  • People are entitled to their opinion. MS6 is not for everyone. If it was, it would sell better and there would not be the discouts. I can agree that "the market is always right!" However, information is not always perfect! MS6 got hammered by the major reviews and that hurt its market value a great deal. 93 requirement is really hurting sales particularly when cheap dealers stick 87 into the engine.

    Clearly MS6 is not worth anywhere close to $30k or its MSRP. '06 LGTs were selling for about 25k for the last few months and that is closest competitor for the MS6. LGT might be a better for some purposes (with straight forward folding seat and even a pass-though for '07) but I personally want DSC and that caused me to take '06 LGT off my list. LGT does get DSC for '07 but I will have to fork over an additional 2k for a very crappy NAV that is bundled with DSC now.

    I am still considering an MS6 but at $30k+ I took it off my list because at those prices S60 R is way more attractive (sleeper) and has better value at only $2-3k more. '06 G35x is also a good choice as it currently sells close to 28k but only comes in auto. MS6 may have higher driver involvement but it is really hurting in some facets: brand name, looks that are not for everyone, not enough lux features for some... In its niche (that might be too small) it has no real competition!

    Fasterthanyou: please move on and buy/drive something else but do not complain if anything you buy for $22k is fasterthanyou in the twisties or even in a straight line... Can you tell me any 4-door that has AWD, DSC, all air bags and can do 0-60 close to 6 seconds and runs under $25k?
  • OK, I admit maybe is too much to say that the Mazdaspeed6 is overpriced at 22000. Is just that I'm disappointed with the way this car drives.
    I start to understand why you think is a great is probably the fact that you never owned a Mazda before and your expectations were not so big. I'm telling you, the difference between a regular Mazda6 and the speed6 is very small. A little turbo rush is not everything. Many cars look good on paper and they don't really deliver ...Infinity G35 , Lexus IS350 to give some examples. They are often compared with a BMW and sometimes on paper they look even better ...until you drive them and you understand there is nothing to compare. You said you had German cars before so I am guessing you understand what I mean.
    Believe me I really tried to like the Mazdaspeed6 (I knew about this car since they released it in Europe about 2 years ago)...I took about 5 test drives trying to convince myself that I should not miss the opportunity of owning one at this price but every time I got at the wheel there was nothing that could make me like this car.
    I'm very surprised that you don't find the transmission of the speed6 miserable after owning Audi's.

    P.S. You can get a 2006 Accord v6 for 22000 without too much effort but the Accord is not by any means a performance car.
  • Granted, BMW 330ix may "feel" better but it will run well North of $40k and it will NOT be faster. I would not want to pay to have it fixed either and its reliability is nothing to brag about!
  • Subaru Impreza WRX.
  • WRX does not have curtain air bags or DSC. It is pretty decent ride. Wait another few weeks and you might be able to get a 9-2x Aero for even less. In '05, folks were picking them up for under $20k!

    WRX and 9-2x can be had in a wagon which is nice but the rear seat space and fit&finish are pretty lousy. The interior in the MS6 is superior to Subaru and Saabaru. Personally, I think LGT is more my bag but it is not price competitive when equiped with DSC. Frankly, MS6 GT is very comparable to SpecB in some respects but again MS6 GT is far better value, at least currently.
  • I owned more than 40 cars and the only ones that caused me trouble were a Nissan 350 z and Honda Accord v6. Both very "reliable" japanese cars. Reliability ratings are absolutely useless. If you do a little research you will realize that between the most reliable cars(listed in CR) and the most unreliable is in fact a lot smaller difference in the number of problems that you may think. But I guess people can be easily manipulated in thinking otherwise.

    P.S. I owned 5 BMW's and the reliability was outstanding
  • I have also owned a few cars that were supposed to be unreliable. I found them to be reasonable but then I maintain and do not abuse them. Granted reliability is based on a large sample, there is always variation within any sample. CR does not report any measurement for those possible variations.

    However, I currently own (and contemplating replacing) a '91 4Runner (original owner) and that puppy has taken less than $1k of non-maintenance repairs in 15 years. That has been beyond any reasonable expectations. Does that compare to any BMW that you had owned way past the warranty period? Many of my friends who own those always drop $1k per visit for any real work and that is pretty hefty.

    Furthermore, since you have owned 40 vehicles we can safely assume that you have not owned any (or too many) of them until they are much older. All vehicles are pretty "reliable" when they are within the warranty period. Reliability at 10 years old is probably a better measure than it is at 1!
  • xplorx4xplorx4 Posts: 621
    Regarding the trunk pass-through, I added this feature to my Mazdaspeed6 for about $50. See the photos of my efforts by clicking this link.
  • I owned only used BMW's so I am not talking about brand new cars. None of them caused me any problems. None of them had any rattles.
    I definitely had problems with the new cars: Nissan 350z(alignment, excessive tire wear, rattles) Honda Accord Lx v6(rotors warped every 5000 miles, rattle trap, transmission)to name only a few. How could I keep this cars for years.
    I decided I am not going to keep any car for more than two years so I don't really care how reliable they are after 10 years. But if you ask me my bet will still be on a Mercedes or BMW.
    If long term reliability is an issue for you why did you buy a Mazda? I've owned Mazdas(only new)and while they are reliable in short term..I don't see them lasting too long.

    P.S. Right now I own a Subaru and a Honda so I think I am objective with my remarks .
  • Here is my 2 cents.

    I just came back from the dealership where I helped my nephew buy a MS6 Grand Touring with Moonroof and Navi for $27734 out the door including taxes. This is Texas some it's 6.25% sales tax. Used the S plan so it's invo plus $3500 rebate and $250 rebate for the Mazda travelling tour. I don't know about you but I sure would loved to own this car. BTW that's less than $26K for this a fully loaded car with leather, moonroof, power driver seat, heated seats, keyless start and a navi system that actually is pretty cool.

    But it's true about the automatic option. I have NO chance of buying one myself because it's an understanding with my wife that all future cars have automatics. That's just part of life.

    But $28K out the door for a Grand Touring Navi. Damm Mazda is almost losing money on this puppy. I used to sell Acura and I know this drives better than the TL 6speed and no TL 6speed Navi can be had for $28K out the door.

    Frankly, after seeing the Sport and Grand Touring difference, I'd pay the extra the the Grand Touring.

    And I am not and will never be a Subura fan so Legacy is out. Besides, Nothing comparable can be had for the price.
  • "But it's true about the automatic option. I have NO chance of buying one myself because it's an understanding with my wife that all future cars have automatics. That's just part of life. "

    Bingo! That is the problem with targetting a more mature audience with vehicle characteristics that are not likely to work for a family of drivers. If your spouse cannot drive stick, (s)he is not going to approve an MS6 purchase! Target market is too small!
  • C'mon guys... butch up a little... how long does it take to teach our wives to drive stick... my wife refuses to drive anything BUT a stick... if more people bought manual trans. cars the automakers would make more. Now they are making less and less manual cars. Pretty soon they're only going to sell slushboxes. My hat's off to Mazda for making the MS6 manual-only.
  • Hasn't anyone figured out that the reason there is no automatic transmission in the MS6 is because they didn't have one that could handle the power output?

    When the RX-8 came out, they had to detune the 247 238 HP engine to 207 197 HP for the automatic version because they didn't have an automatic that could handle that much power.

    They've managed to develop an automatic for the CX-7, but this engine has been detuned to 244 HP. I'm not sure if that is to accomodate the auto tranny or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is.
  • Sorry--I don't have a clue what it means. :(
  • Yeah, thats why I am willing to support the nitch market. My wife has never in her life owned an automatic, nor have I. I see no reason to change that at this point. My parents have a stick and an auto, and her parents have two sticks.
    It is my acid test for auto enthusists. When they talk about being into cars and they drive a Toyota slushbox "because of their wife" I walk away.
  • Your litmus test for auto enthusiasts is fine but it does not help Mazda to sell enough units to make a profit. If your spouse refuses to drive a stick, it may not be wise to buy a vehicle that only one adult will drive. I bet predominantly single (and not married) males are buying the MS6. Furthermore, many purists might just "stick" with Evo or STI.... MS6 is stuck between the rock and a hard place!

    I believe that '07 demand will only go lower with way more SpecB units coming out as well the new G35x which sells more units than Mazda because it is ONLY auto. Infiniti has nailed their segment and that is why stick is not offered, they know it is a money loser. How many manuals do they sell in G35 configuration?

    The stick is one of the features that attracts me away from the G35x but there are not enough folks who are into more involved driving characteristic of a 6 speed stick.
  • The direction of the industry is in little nitch markets so it is important that they learn how to make profits on smaller volumes. When the Mustang came out in the 60's, they sold a million the first year. Now even the CamCords are like 3-400,000/year. Chrysler only has nitch vehicles.
    Further, there are a lot of single males who want sticks, and there are a lot that cant afford a 325i, and there are a lot that dont want what everyone else has (WRX) or feel like they are driving an ox-cart (STi, EVO). Thats the nitch.
  • I am one that also appreciates the manual transmission. 47 year old women, and I like to really drive a car.

    If it were auto, it could be used as a soccer mom's car.
    I like the fact that owning a MS6 means you really drive that MS6 and appreciate what it can do.

    If you need auto, this car is just not for you..
  • My daughter and I bought our mazda's at the same time. I have the MS6 GT and she has the RX8 GT ..............I drive them both, back and fourth, when ever. They sit side by side in the garage. ..

    Quote" would take the RX8 for 21000(not as much torque but with sport car handling or the GTI 20000(torque at any RPM, better handling, way better build quality)"

    ARE YOU KIDDING? Go drive them both again. :surprise:
    If the RX8 is 21000, then it is not the model to compare. And even comparing the 28,000 RX8 to the 28,000 MS6, handling and build quality? The MS6 wins all the way....RX8 is a rattle trap, and the steering cant begin to compare.
  • fasterthanyou: You're right on the mark with regards to my expectations affecting my view of the MS6. My background on the MS6:

    I had an R32 for just over 2 years and mostly loved driving it -- the relatively rough ride and the squeaks and rattles (which the dealer couldn't fix) are the only things that I grew tired of. I thought about hanging on to the R32 until the MKV R32 hit America next year until VW confirmed that it would be DSG only (I still prefer manual). I also knew that the crazy resale market for MKIV R32s would subside when the new model hit the shores next year.

    At the same time I was watching the marketplace for used R32s skyrocket in CA, I also noticed that Mazda was offering ridiculous incentives on the MS6, a car that I'd been interested in because of its "paper specs" for some time. I figured out that I could sell the R32 for a very good price (I ended up getting over 80% of sticker price back after driving it for 2+ years) and lease an MS6 for literally 1/3 of my car payment for the R32. Of course, I'd have to like the MS6 to make the deal.

    I test drove an MS6 w/o the reflashed ECU -- it was exciting, but difficult to drive with any semblance of smoothness (touchy clutch + original power curve). Still, I was very impressed with the chassis rigidity, handling and ride quality. The interior was nicer than I expected -- not an Audi, but not a Nissan either (sorry -- I have no love for Nissan interiors). When I got the right price for the R32, drove an MS6 with the updated ECU firmware (from the factory -- VIN confirmed) and saw the deal I could get, it was a no-brainer. I was pleasantly surprised by the car and still am.

    Granted, in the abstract, I probably wouldn't have purchased an MS6. That's to say I wouldn't have walked into the dealer last year and paid anywhere near MSRP. However, given all the factors at play, the MS6 met my needs perfectly. Especially given the financial incentives offered and the resultant *cheap as dirt* lease payment, you can see why I strongly feel that the MS6 is an incredible value right now. There's no VW, Audi or other desireable car I could touch anywhere near the price. Bets of all, this lease will allow me to save enough $$$ pickup a new MK2 TT in 2008! ;)

  • Not great many will dispute the value this car represents at 22-23k and had I not been driving 3 year old M6s I would have been sitting in MS6 by now. I have a loaded '03 6s manual with 57k that I am only being offered 50% of my purchase price for by the dealer (11.5k) as a trade-in. Looking at the outside prices and listings I don't see how I can sell it for much more. This is a pretty bad residual and a tough reality, and it would probably not be a sound financial decision if I traded my 6s in and pick up MZ6 sport for an additional 11k...but then again, the residual will not get any better and MS6 prices might not be that low ever again...still debating this one.
  • I test drove the Mazdaspeed 6 several times and owned an Rx8(no rattles in mine). I don't see where you find that difference in quality... both are built in Japan and the MSRP is pretty much the same. If your RX8 rattles is just bad luck. I had a Honda Accord that could won any contest for the biggest rattle trap ever built.
    You are right... the steering cannot compare. Rx8 has the handling of a real sports car. I suggest you to drive them again.
  • One more thing...just to let you know RX8 has the same numbers as the current BMW M3 on a track. That should tell you something about the way RX8 handles.
    You didn't get the lion share when you shopped for cars with your wife. She did.
  • Only DSG on the R32?.That is sad. I find DSG to be a lot closer in feel to an automatic transmission than a manual one. I guess I have to start saving for the new M3.
  • Audi and VW will be pushing DSG/S-Tronic hard on all cars in coming years. My sister in law was in town this weekend with her new A3 2.0T DSG (oh, I mean "S-Tronic"), but I didn't have time to drive it. It could be the best semi-automatic in the world, but I doubt I'd buy one. Still, I want to give it a try...maybe next time she's in town.

    Luckily, my wife has owned more manual transmission cars than automatics. She has an automatic now, so we have one of each tranmission depending on our "mission du jour" -- one for cruising, one for driving!

    I think the MS6 would be a really weird car with an automatic given the narrow power band and lack of low-end torque -- maybe a 7-speed auto would help if it had complimentary ratios. The MS6 would probably kick [non-permissible content removed] with a CVT, though I wouldn't buy one! ;)

    I'm guessing that's one of the reasons Mazda retuned the engine for the CX7. Its torque peak is 258 lb-ft at 2,500 RPM whereas the MS6 has 280 lb-ft at 3,000 RPM. The HP peak also occurs 500 RPM sooner.

    Anyone drive a CX7 and an MS6 for comparison?

  • Very neat description of the process of creating a passs-through. Thank you. I only want a pass-through large enough to be able to put snow skis in the trunk, but you've shown how it can be done.
  • Yes, the pass though with the current equipment is pretty easy but it will require additional padding on the skis unless you are dropping the 60% part. The added bracing is pretty rough/sharp. Furthermore, putting 4 people and skis is not going to work nicely with the MS6 as-is.

    Frankly, I think it is an unfortunate oversight on the part of Mazda not to have an armrest pass through (which is pretty cheap) like those available on the LGT and the G35x. I guess this AWD sport sedan is not targetting skiers? :cry: In addition, many have already acknowledged that a set of winters is likely need for any real winter drives.

    For those who cannot handle the 6 speed manual, G35x is probably the only decent choice. LGT auto is not comparable in IMHO. I recently test drove the '06 G35x and it is comparable to MS6 performance: it has a tad less go but it has a slightly nicer balance that results from the weight distribution being much closer to 50/50. The auto in the G is a decent one and it might work for a few folks as it can shifted manually. There is more driver involvment with the MS6 but the G is a tad more upscale. The G should be more comfy in everyday driving too but it does not feel as sharp as the MS6 when pushed... it needs a bit more torque!

    Obviously, there is $4-5k in price difference at the current street price levels (comparing MS6 GT with msrp ~30.5k to bare G35x msrp ~$34k).
  • An armrest pass-through for skis would be nice. Next research for me will be to buy winter tires for the MZSpeed6. Think I wll mount them on their own rims. Turbo works good in the mountains.
  • I drove a CX7 last week. There was no way to compare. The CX7 was an automatic. :confuse: It had a delay when you hit the gas, Before you could feel a surge......
    Very strange. I didnt like it at all.
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