Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
<"As for the 8 seater comment, neither the toyota sienna nor the honda odyssey are "true" 8 seaters. Honda does it by retaining the captain's chairs and building a smaller middle seat. Toyota did it by reducing the captain chair sizes."> You can say what you want, but that middle 2nd row seat with the indexing to a full 18 inches in the Sienna not only makes it a true 8 seater for families, but it is the only Mini-Van where you can put 3 car seats in the middle 2nd row if you so choose. This is one of the features of the Sienna that sold me. Our newborn is upfront and center!! My wife now rides shotgun unlike in the ODY, she would have to seat in the second row. So the Ody is a loser yet in another category, no child friendly second seat!
We prefered the bigger second row seats in the Ody ourselves. We even took out the middle Plus 8 seat for now, to allow more room to get back to the third row.
Well, like many things in my life, it's not as big as I'd like....
...besides, my '66 Fastback takes up 1/2 and misc. junk the other half. All our daily drivers reside in the driveway.
You sound almost like my situation. I started looking at Sienna and Ody and was going toward Ody but quality issues on this board have just about scarted me off. Am looking at Pilot but don't need AWD and don't like the gas milage. Looked at Highlander but like you saw, its a little too small. (IF they would make a bigger version - not Sequoia - I would but. ) I have a daughter in college and a son in senior high school so I occaisionally need the cargo room and seating room.
Like you said, "With a smaller vehicle such as the Highlander; yes, I would be getter a nicer ride, but for these occasional times, my ability to haul this extra stuff would be limited."
So far I am leaning toward the Pilot. Issues like wind noise around cowling, painful seatbacks, etc need to be fixed.
The new Honda pickup looks interesting but there appears to be no cover for the bed in back if you need one.
Currently, that is my present configuration. I have an 05 Sienna LE-8 with the BX(Pkg 8) option. I can vouch/verify for that middle 2nd row sliding forward, my wife from the shotgun seat services our infant(RF). Since I only have 2 children and my Mother-in-law(makes 5), the 2nd row is fully occupied with two car seats and an adult. Which means i have the option of flooring the 3 rd row should we decide to go shopping for large items or travel. With the 3rd row up, I still have 43.6 cu. ft behind it, which is a 5.2 cu. ft advantage over the Oddy's 3rd Row behind, for short trips to the supermarket. So like I said before, I have many more seating/cargo configurations than a pseudo 8 pass-Oddy or a 7 passenger Sienna period. Too bad you never got to experiment like I did because you already have committed to the Oddy!
Doesn't sound like you're using 3 child seats across the middle row option that you've paid for....
Question: why would your wife be required to sit in the 2nd row if the baby is back there?
Steve, Host
Oh, and I can fit 5 (incl 2 baby seats) in the front 2 rows just fine. We did experiment, btw. (believe me, you GOTTA with two seats to juggle), which instantly ruled out a lot of alternatives like Highlanders, Pilots, and RX330's.
--> Andy
<"Nevermind that most 7-pass with the "center" captain seat sliding forward mimics this effect. Just to say that just because the LE-8 is the best layout for you, doesn't mean it's the best layout for *everyone*.">
Sorry, I compared the 7 seat Sienna and the Oddy with the +1 seat against the Sienna LE-8. The travel on the outboard 2nd row seats of the LE-8 travels about 6 inches forward which is comparable to it's 7 seat Sienna and Oddy. But once you set that 2nd row-Middle seat indexed the full 18 inches(forward), the unfair advantage obvious. Congrats on the twins! Yeah, I agree in your case , it might not work because twins will require immediate attention at the same time. Nonetheless, I do have more seating/cargo options than any 7 seater. For instance if I had twins like you, my wife or mother in law could seat in that center seat with the twins in the two outboard seats(2 nd row), leaving me the option to floor the 3rd row. It's the best layout for me period!
I guess you don't see the obvious?
<"Doesn't sound like you're using 3 child seats across the middle row option that you've paid for...."> No, but I have seating options that the Oddy and the 7 seat Sienna, don't! Like I said, a family of 5 has the option of using or flooring the 3rd row period.
<" Question: why would your wife be required to sit in the 2nd row if the baby is back there?">
Quick, call the NHTSA and ask them what to do with people who are safety brain dead like you! That is a dumb question! Why would you leave a baby in the 2nd row by itself or have Mommy roaming the aisle at 70 MPH, since I assume you don't have the Sienna 8 Passenger. Too bad, you don't understand that Mommy in the 2nd row or shotgun(Sienna 8 Passenger, only)without unbuckling her belt can attend to the infant.
That's what we do now, so um... I know, the seat looks funny, but it's not bad. I've sat it in for some time already, and I'm no svelte model.
--> Andy
<"There are mechanical devices (active motor mounts, etc) in place to cope with the mechanical vibrations of the motor."> My statements did not pertain to isolating the passenger cabin from the vibrations! I am talking about negating the vibrations caused by cylinder deactivation as it applies to the engine. Since you come from a technical background, you have to understand as more complex mechanisms(Counter rotating balance shafts for example) are introduced to negate the vibrations in the engine, the higher the probability of having problems in the engine.
<" I drive in the city and I see the little "eco" light come on all the time, so I don't think you have to be a freeway hauler to get any benefits from it. "> You may trust little idiot lights, but I don't! Like I said before what you think you save in gas with cylinder deactivation in a grid lock environment isn't worth trading off reliability for one extra thing to go wrong. Considering Honda's recent record with automatic transmissions failures, I personally would abstain from any vehicle equipped with cylinder deactivation.
<" Granted, if you grid locked in Manhattan 99% of the time, that might become an issue. But then the "Evil VCM" is never coming on, so whaddya worried about breaking down?
<"That's what we do now, so um... I know, the seat looks funny, but it's not bad. I've sat it in for some time already, and I'm no svelte model.
Don't try any long distance drives in the Ody's +1 seat unless you are into masochism. My wife looked at that seat and made a comment about it referencing a deireirre and dental floss? My understating is the Sienna CE/LE-8's innovative 2nd row center seat is 3/4 size of the outboard seats. I sat in the Ody +1 seat and can only say besides being a joke, it might be only half the size of the Sienna's 2nd row, center seat max.
Personally I'm very happy with the mileage on the Oddyssey. Your mileage obviously varies.
Can somebody who has used the Ody and Sienna LE8 seat with child seats give me their 2c on the following:
2 kid scenario:
Q1: Do both the Ody and Sienna LE8 allow access to the 3rd row with 2 rear facing seats in the outboard positions or does the passenger side baby seat need to be taken off to allow the 2nd row seat to shift forward.
Q2: Do both the Ody and Sienna LE8 allow access to the 3rd row with 2 rear facing seats in the middle and driver-outboard positions to allow the 3rd row through the passenger 2nd row seat.
Q3: Variation on Q2: what if the centre seat is occupied by a child booster seat rather than a rear facing seat.
3 kid scenario
Q4: Can all three 2nd row seats be occupied with 2 rear facing (outboard) and a child booster seat in the middle. Does this affect access to the 3rd row seats?
Ultimately, there is no subsitute as to trying out these scenarios myself but circumstance and location don't permit.
Currently, I'm a very happy Toyota man but IMHO at an Ody EX-L at invoice + 500 compares very favourably to a Sienna LE8 Package 5 for 2K less than the EX-L.
I simply can't understand that for a FAMILY MINIVAN Toyota doesn't have side airbags as standard.
Thanks in advance.
289? Weeeellll, yes, it originally had a 289...8^)
Lift at highway speeds? Only when I mash the loud pedal.....
I believe with comparable equipment, we can get an ODyssey for about 2000-3000 dollars less than a Sienna. Of course, I never baragained properly for a Sienna but I would guess that there will be at least a 100 dollar difference. I was in the market for a EXL with R/N and a Sienna XLE with package 8 which I felt were comparable in features. Lowest quote I got for Sienna around $35000 while I got the EXL with R/N for about 3000 lesser.
HTH
Thanks
Choose a lesser option package if you really want to compare apples to apples.
Could compare with the top Odyssey Touring, which would close the gap... but then I wonder if that compares with the XLE Limited on the Toyota side.
Well, if they want navi/res on an XLE, I think they HAVE to get Pkg8. And yes, there will be SEVERAL things the EX-L lacks which would be present on the XLE, including the 17" rims (and power rear-hatch, wood trim interior, 3-row automatic climate control, etc. etc.). Of course, with 17" rims, you have more expensive tires to replace....
Of course, the flip side is there are some key things the XLE lacks which is present on the EX-L navi/res (big ones IMO are the capability to carry 8, CD changer, voice command on the navi, and the in-floor storage).
EVERY buyer interested in these two vehicles should make a little comparison chart listing just those items which are DIFFERENT between the two and then deciding which items are important TO THEM. My wife and I did that and decided that, if the two vehicles were within around $500-$750 of each other, we prefered the Sienna. However, we were able to pick up an EX-L for around $2300 less than the best deal I could negotiate for an XLE equipped with JUST those items we wanted (curtain airbags, traction/stability control, leather).
After we pick up the van tomorrow, I'll stop worrying about which one is the 'best' and just enjoy what I've got. Life's too short to stress out over a minivan......
As for the Touring suspension, I have heard that, but not from any reliable source; one salesperson told me that the EX/LX is based on an Accord chassis and the Touring is based on a TL chassis, but I have never heard that before.
Nothing in Honda's literature, including Honda's detailed technical press release (available online) mentions anything about a suspension difference. I would think if Honda had "specially tuned" the suspension for the touring/PAX system, they would have mentioned it as a selling point. But I am curious to know the answer. (I won't even bother with Honda's customer service; getting them to answer a technical question is like pulling teeth.)
Thanks so much for all of your hard work.
First of all I would like an apology from you. If you want to talk about the car and features and how you use them, great. Please do not resort to name calling. Whatever is not obivious, please explain.
Like Thumper said and others have noted - if you want to move the middle seat up to attend to the baby, most of the other van's captains chair will do the same to allow one to attend to my infant. Separate the issue of the 8 seats vs. the middle seat being able to slide up.
The role of the active motor mounts could (I say *could*, because I'm not a Honda Engineer and I can't speak on the *specific* role of this application) be not only for isolating the cabin from the vibration of the motor, but to likewise provide a little bit of a "free-float" environment which the motor is not grounded to the rest of the vehicle. This concept of vibration isolation serves to reduce the "impact" of these vibrations. Active control of these isolation systems allow you to compensate for a wide range of vibrations and/or modulate the damping in order to control how you attenuate them.
I'm not sure where you're getting transmissions = engines. You point out frequently that GM also uses this "doomed" cylinder technology, yet they build what is probably the most respected series of automatic transmissions in the automotive world today. Enough to have the Germans asking to have some for their cars, anyway. Not that it matters anyway, automotive engineering is extremely narrow in focus. My senior advisor in college was a former engineer for Ford who worked on ABS. That's it. Nothing else. So I find it highly unlikely that anyone who would've been remotely to blame for any "engineering disaster" with the transmission would've seen the broad side of a blueprint for the VCM hardware, other than for the fact the gear ratios are different for the VCM-equipped models.
Really? You don't trust your gauges? If your Check Engine light came on, do you just say "Whatever, it's just a dumb light?" How about check oil? Temp? Gas?? I've given you gridlock as a scenario where VCM neither engages or affects your gas mileage (but then again, an Odyssey, Sienna, or a '64 Studebaker is getting 0mpg, right?). But just tooling around town, there are instances where I'm either coasting or holding a steady speed where there's probably some benefit gained from this.
(Q1): Likely no, with both vans. Both have very little room to squeeze by the seats in their outboard positions with a child seat installed. Possible exception would be if they're both forward-facing or boosters, which could move up a little more forward. A variation would be for a 7-passenger configuration with seats outboard is that you have space down the middle to get into the back row. Slightly inconvenient for more than one person, but handy in a pinch if someone has to climb back there while on the road to calm down a screamer.
(Q2): The Ody does not allow install on the +1 seat, so you would have to install as a 7-passenger configuration and push the captain chair to the middle. (takes about 3 minutes to switch once you get the hang of it) The LE-8 should, unless the child seat is so wide it "spills over" to the seat next to it. This was our problem with the Pilot/Highlander.
(Q3): Same as Q2.
(Q4): On the LE-8, this should be possible, again assuming all three seats are narrow enough to fit with each other side-by-side-by-side. You will *not* be able to access the 3rd row in this configuration. You'll also want to consider the potential of the center child pestering the outboard children. (no, really, when placing kids, put a buffer space between them
With more than 2 kids, you're probably going to be leaning towards the Sienna, unless you have other factors coming into play (like other features, trim, etc). You have a little more flexibility in the 2nd row and have more anchors in the back to utilize as the kids get older (in case you want to put two back there) The 8-seat config in the Odyssey only comes into play with 2 kids if you're not using the 3rd row or when they're older and you don't have car seats in the 2nd row, so you're mostly looking at a 7-seater until they've grown.
Hope that helps.
--> Andy
And to my mom, who's considerably smaller than me, she doesn't even bat an eye at sitting in the seat.
*shrug*
--> Andy
Check out the Rules of the Road link too.
Steve, Host
The specifications on the Honda media newsroom site lists all trim models as sharing the same "Global Light Truck Platform," which would appear to render incorrect the statement that the touring is based on a different chassis than the EX/LX.
Complex mechanism? You want to stuff 60% more parts into a transmission, trying to keep it small and lightweight? (and believe me, they're not that lightweight as it is!) I might have to pick VCM over the 8-speed. At least for now.
Considering that you're getting 10% gain in MPG (highway, sure) is modest, but you're now matching the economy of the Sienna's smaller less powerful motor, and dragging around a much heavier van while doing it. Is the price too high? I guess we'll know in 25 more years.
It's a shame you're willing to cast aside any technology based on its performance 25 years ago. I mean, considering that computerized engine monitoring and control was still in its infancy, not to mention the widespread use of multi-port fuel injection was unheard of, not to mention the grand total of our application of any sort of vibration control was changing out from rubber to urethane bushings in the motor mounts, it's a wonder you're willing to drive a car at all! Oh wait, that wasn't my point. My point is technology advances. Even if the *concept* of cylinder shutoff isn't new, the motor it's being applied to doesn't resemble an 80's era Northstar motor, nor are we using the same means to control the side effects. You have to give the engineers some credit to not just drag out a 25 year old blueprint and say "Good 'nuff" to send it out the door. Even if they did, you *know* Corporate wouldn't because of the legal precedent. They're gonna do *something* to rectify the problems in order not to get sued again.
But considering your hot rod days, I can see why you'd be suspicious of anything newer than the ol' Slip n' Slide Powerglide.
First, I would suggest the Sienna LE-8 FWD with the BX(Option 8) pkg. It comes with it pretty much all the safety equipment including 3 row side curtain airbags, VSC, TractionLok, and ABS. It is the top of the line for the LE-8, as it comes with the JBL synthesis surround sound with DVD player. At first I didn't want the DVD, but I wanted the JBL. I couldn't have one without the other. Anyway, the DVD player is a God send when it comes to toddlers and older. It is a good baby sitter for those long trips.
2 Kids(Thats my situation: 2 yr-old and 3 week old)
Q1: The LE-8 I can speak for, the 2nd row passenger outboard seat in my configuration is currently empty or with an adult(Mother in law). Powered passenger side door necessitates this seat be free of a child seat if the 3rd row must accessible. This seat with the one touch folds forward. I have a Britax Roundabout FF(2 yr-old) on the drivers side 2nd row outboard seat and an evenflow infant seat(RF) in the indexed 2nd row center seat and of course Mommy rides Shotgun. This config allows me to either floor the 3rd row or use it. The Oddy's +1 seat not really being a Child friendly seat relegates all the child seats to the outboard seats, which means no access to that 3rd row if there are seats on those outboard positions.
Q2: Yes! On the Sienna RF or FF doesn't matter on the mentioned positions. I experimented with these configurations already.
Q3: No problem, just play around with the forward indexing positions on that center seat. I can get by with not using the full staggered position(forward 6 inches of the outboard seats ) when my mother-in-law travels with us in that passenger outboard seat. All seats in the 2nd row can handle the Britax Roundabout(RF or FF)/booster seats with ease.
Q4: Yes in the Sienna! No access to 3rd row unless the outboard seat's child seat is removed first. If you are talking about a family of 5, the plus side of the LE-8 is that you floor 3rd row for more storage or you park one child seat on one of the splits on the 3rd row freeing up access using that outboard seat.
Advice: Get the BX package(option 8). Like you, I'm a Toyota man, but until the 2nd gen Sienna came out, I was leaning towards the Oddy. When I was first shopping for a Minivan in 10/04, I looked at the new Oddy and was not impressed. I thought the 2nd gen was better designed. What really turned me off on the Oddy was the arrogance of the salesman and worse the fleet dealers. All of them thought it was 1999(Prince song) and wanted MSRP+(way North of it). If it's true what you are saying about invoice plus? Wow, how the mighty have fallen! Honda must be hearing Sienna footsteps because I purchased my 05 Sienna LE-8 for Invoice plus!
<"Like Thumper said and others have noted - if you want to move the middle seat up to attend to the baby, most of the other van's captains chair will do the same to allow one to attend to my infant. Separate the issue of the 8 seats vs. the middle seat being able to slide up.">
Like I have explained before, Toyota has an innovative design in that 2nd row center seat. The ODY Captains Seats like the 7 Passenger Sienna's Captain Seats do not have the forward indexed travel of 18 inches. This is called Staggered seating for that center seat. The Captains chairs in the ODDY and 7 passenger Sienna have at most 6 inches forward or 6 inches backwards. Trying to down play this obvious advantage that the Sienna LE-8 has over the ODDY's +1 is like comparing the another fact that the Sienna Ltd has HIDs where as the ODDY does not? Or how about the fact that the Sienna has a 5.2 cu ft. advantage behind the 3rd row vs the Oddy's 3rd row? Anyway, I have a newborn infant in that center seat with a 26 month old in the Driver side outboard 2nd row seat. My wife doesn't have to sit in the back(2nd row) anymore to attend to our newborn. She sits up front with me and tends to him over her left shoulder. She couldn't do this in a Ody, I researched this before I bought the Sienna. In the Oddy I would have to park my 26 month old in the 3 rd row. Sliding that captain's chair over still could not duplicate that staggered center seat of the Sienna indexed forward a full 18 inches. Honda gave the Oddy a new feature which I find useless, the Lazy Susan Storage. It's shame it isn't that deep. So Honda shortchanged the new Oddy with that +1 seat but gave it a Lazy Susan??
"The Oddy's +1 seat not really being a Child friendly seat relegates all the child seats to the outboard seats, which means no access to that 3rd row if there are seats on those outboard positions. "
***
This is true, however it only takes a few minutes to reconfigure "on the fly", breaking down the +1 seat, stowing it under the floor, and moving the captain's chair over to the center. (without removing the child seat, even) I've gotten quite a bit of practice in it since often we switch back and forth from
"5-pass" seating, meaning the +1's in (for baby soothing duty), with the 3rd row down for cargo when it's just us and having the seats outboard for easy access from the dual power doors...
switching to "7-pass" seating, bringing the back row back up when we need to carry a few extra people. I don't like the "7-pass" full time because a lot of reaching and head-bonking results in trying to put the kid in the center seat.
As for the index of travel, yes, the center seat on the LE-8 has more forward motion than the captains chairs do. However, at least with our seats I can't slide them any further forward without pinning the child seat against the front row seats. (rear facing) The indexing *would* make a difference with a single forward-facing child seat installed (which is how they depict it in the '05 brochure) With a very narrow infant carrier type seat (Peg Perego?)you might be able to slide in between the front row seats, but I don't know for sure since we switched to the child seats before getting the minivan.
Funny you mentioned 1999. I felt the same way shopping for Siennas. Nobody around here was talking anything near "invoice plus" even with the new Odyssey's on the ground. Just goes to show it depends on the dealers in your area. *shrug*
--> Andy
I'll be that if they were deciding between the Sienna and Odyssey today, they'd pick the Sienna just because it offers that feature and the Odyssey doesn't.
Actually, I wanted to Nav. Package #8 is the only one that had Nav. With package #8 on a XLE and EX-L with R/N Honda, the vehicles are comparable. There are a few things that are in Ody that are not present in Sienna and vice versa. Since this was the vehicle I was looking for, this made sense to me.
However, I also made comparisns with I believe a EX-L and a package #5 or 6 (not sure). Even in these cases the price was comparable but then on a EX-L, you would get leather, 8th seat etc. In a Sienna you would get the trip computer (I think) etc. So, I felt that comparing apples to apples, I still came out better with the Odyssey. Otherwise, I felt there was little to choose between the two.
Thanks
I've read here before (maybe it was your post) that the XLE with Nav is difficult to find, as not many are made because most buyers who want this level of equipment go for the Limited. Try pricing a Limited, and I'll bet it won't be much more than the quote for the XLE you have now.
Before deciding on a particular model (LE or XLE) with an option package, it's worth comparing the price and what you're getting to the next model up.
<"Ok, so you're slamming Honda for an awful 5-speed, but now you're advocating they give us even MORE complicated transmissions instead of VCM? You're just trying to give yourself something to complain about later.
Not really? I think Honda and Acura, correct me if I am wrong have introduced 6 speed auto as other automakers have? The progression is already happening. Actually from a Reliability viewpoint, there is more Reliability History data on Honda Trannies than there is on the VCM. Considering GM killed the whole concept(production wise) in the early 80s, there has been NO Reliability History data gathered since. The way I look at it(reliability standpoint) is that GM, DC, and Honda are Guinea Pigging the technology and hoping to build a good reliability history since GM dropped the ball two decades ago. We all know how the big 3 test cars? They don't! They hope you burn up their telephone lines with your complaints which saves them R&D money.
By the way Northstar was a 90's name not 80's!
<"But considering your hot rod days, I can see why you'd be suspicious of anything newer than the ol' Slip n' Slide Powerglide.">
I guess you must be a youngin and not really knew anything about the era. The street racers choice of auto trannies back then was Chrysler Torque Flite or the Ford C-6. I was never a fan of GM Trannies(powerglide) at that time. Of course the best auto trannies back then were B&M prepared. Muncie 4 speed Manual Trannies were the other choices. These auto-trannies were really strong as they had to deliver prodigious amounts torque(500 ft-lbs +) at very low rpms(2000) to the rear wheels. That's why I can't understand the difficulty Honda is having with their auto trannies since we are not talking about a whole lot of torque here at low RPMs? I am only suspicious of new technology that does not have a long reliability history or not been thoroughly stress tested like cylinder deactivation.
NHTSA/Safercar.gov
Steve, Host
Thanks for all your great feedback. The general consensus is that the Ody +1 seat will not fit anything but the smallest childseat which puts the Sienna LE8 at a distinct advantage.
As I said on the original post I'm a Toyota man. Logic dictates that all other things being equal I should for go for a Siemma LE8.
However, for unknown reasons, I still find myself drawn by the Ody. When push comes to shove I'll probably purchase based on the best deal at the time.
Once again thanks for your help on the child seat problem.
EB
We like the memory seats and adjustable pedals of Honda, but my husband can sit only in drivers seat. (barely) Fits a little better in the passenger of Sienna, but we have to play "adjust the driver's seat" war with no true 8 way power control on either side. We were told that adding track to Honda seat for more leg room could potentially nullify the warranty. (How do you like them apples?)I haven't asked Toyota's position on adding seat track to move back from dash.
I am finding in the Houston Area, no Toyota or Honda Ody dealerships are dealing. Honda is MSRP+ (they laughed when I said invoice+ on a car they would have to ORDER) and Toyota is MSRP with little incentives also on a car to be ordered. Internet shopping for Toyotas at farther distances has been more advantageous, but still no dealing on Honda...period.
My paramount concern is crash safety, reliability of vehicle and ease of use for me (primary driver)with 2 small children.
Anyone with a great suggestion for better deals in my area with dealerships?
Anyone with knowledge of adding aftermarket memory seat or additional tracks for more leg room?
Sorry so long for initial post. Thanks for your reply.
I'm surprised your husband's knees touch the Odyssey dash on the driver's side (agreed the front passenger seat on either is lousy for legroom). I'm a shade over 6-4 and when the driver's seat is at the rear of the track, I'm almost too far away (and facing another issue - my head grazing the ceiling where it bulges).
I've had to modify seat mounting points on some vehicles in the past - a dicey proposition as it raises warranty issues and, probably more importantly, may adversely affect vehicle crashworthiness and/or create liability issues.
I studied the front of the Sienna driver's seat mounting a few months ago (the front of the seat does not do high enough to support my thighs) and concluded it was ill-advised to try to change it myself. Haven't looked at the Honda.
If you are serious about pursuing modification of the seat mounting, take the vehicle to a reputable shop for an analysis and estimate BEFORE buying. This will be custom work so pick someone who is good. Most likely, rather than adding to the length of the seat track, they will need to relocate it - depending on your height, doing so could create a problem for you.
If you decide on a Honda, based on posts here, great deals are to be had in NE Ohio and it may well be worth your trouble to fly into Cleveland or Akron/Canton, pick up an Odyssey, drive home, and save $3000.
Good luck!
Note, I said *newer* than a Powerglide. I made no reference on how good or bad a "racing" transmission it was. I chose the 1962 2-speed based on the timeframe to point out that you'd rather we stick to 60's era "proven" technology than try something new. But thank you for drifting off course to talk about your speculation about my age, the C-6, and Torque Flite on a Honda/Toyota message board.
But while you're on that subject, the comparison of those transmissions to a FWD/Transverse mounted engine application are why you're confused. The problem isn't how "strong" a component is. At least as pointed out in the recall it's a problem with poor thermal management and fluid distribution. Automatic trannys are big and heavy enough as it is. Now cram it into a FWD/Transv application and you end up with some small cramped ugly stepsister of itself.
You can e-mail me if you want (check my profile) for a contact. I know the price we paid wasn't the absolutely BEST deal on an EX-L, but my negotiation and buying process was about as painless as I've ever experienced. We're happy.
It is clear they plan to go with it on other models here starting next model year.