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Porsche 911



  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 57,343
    The perception out there (real or imagined) is that the 993 is a stronger engine. Porsche Racing seems to think so anyway. We'll see in a couple years how the resale values go.

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  • Designman, nice post. I hadn't heard the tempering angle before.

    Incidentally , years ago, if a rebuilt engine's rings hadn't seated, the school solution was to throw some Bon Ami into the carburetor. Those rings would then seat ASAP. (We won't discuss what happened to the bearings.) Lots of people resisted using Chrome rings when they first came out because cast iron rings will quickly seat (and are much cheaper). Now much better honing techniques (i.e, "plateau honing") have eliminated a lot of this.

    I will try to get a link to the AERA Tech Bulletin I alluded to.
  • Thanks for the pre purchase inspection comment and asking for the service history. I live in Lubbock and am currently in my third Mercedes CLK series. I have had a number of manual transmissions but now an automatic is easier for me. I have read a lot about the Tiptronic system and believe it is the right option for me. I am going to Dallas on Tuesday and will make my final decision then. The initial negotiated price is $69,000 that appears okay. However, I am looking for a better trade value for my 03 CLK 500 with 40K miles and five months of warranty left. The dealer sight unseen offered $23K but I thinking more like $25K so it should be an interesting day.
  • After making my earlier reply, I wish I had just said "a-men brother, you are preaching to the choir" (concerning the difference between VW and Porsche). btw, my 1972 beetle had modified camshaft, carberator, wheels, etc... Kind of reminds me of the kids today souping up their little cars. (They probably don't say "souping".) Boy, this weather better warm up soon...and wash the salt off the roads. :D
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107

    There was never any intention to seek a similarity between the present day 997 and VW mechanically. My VW was used to make a point about oil. The interesting association between the two car manufacturers is the following, and should be common knowledge. History! Reviewing our history here folks......, for those who are uninformed, the very first Porsches had volkswagen engines and every other shared part they could use ( no I'm not going down the road of shared parts again. ha..ha..ha. ).Porsche was Hitlers best buddy and Hitler commissioned Porsche to make the " peoples car"...what do you think "volkswagen" translates to in english???? My 1976 914 2.0 liter had a volkswagen engine in it. Karmen made early Porsche bodies, Karem was considered a volkswagen company...body builder that has... yep volkswagen engines and parts. Presently , Porsche , with all its big bucks profits is heavily invested in, you guessed it...the Volkswagen company. A&E , the History channel has a CD available on thier website that you can purchase..." The History of Porsche " Although not the most up to date piece of work, it clearly describes the beginnings of Volkswagen....Mr. Porsche owned the company. After WWII Porsche became involved in racing and the Porsche was developed. Man, even Porsche's sister owned the Recarro seat company in France! To think that Chevy and GMC have no common background is to be uninformed, the same is true about VW and Porsche. And even though I own a 997, my Porsche IS a glorified volkswagen..a very very extremely glorified one at that! A volkswagen on steroids.

    Cheers...It's finally raining in San sprints today. It was 83 degrees on Saturday. Got a chance to deposit some rubber on the asphalt.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 57,343
    A VW air-cooled engine is really a piece of cheap junk compared to a Porsche, to be honest about it, and it's always been like that. Regardless of the origins of 60 years ago, the two cars have diverged so much that it's like comparing a mouse to a man, even though the mouse has about 92% of our DNA.

    As for the 914 (I car I really like by the way), they didn't put the Porsche name on it in Europe--they wouldn't have dared. The 914 did have a Porsche transmission and some front end parts however--the joke was "The 914---VW performance at Porsche repair prices!"

    The present 911 is still a remarkable evolution of the 1965 design. Probably the most radical departure was the 996---but modern standards of comfort, noise level, and accessories rather demanded it.

    Still an exciting car after all these years, and still a 200,000 mile ++ engine, rather than a 60,000 mile VW engine (if you were lucky)

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  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    good luck with your negotiations on tuesday. more technical info about the car can be found in the forums at
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107

    If we follow the thread back... nothing was ever mentioned or implied about any similarity between the present day 997 and a 1965 VW. But my comments on the history of Porsche and its deep roots in the VW company stand. Mr Porsche made the first VW!!! Early Porsche was born from VW The point I made about my 1965 VW was in regards to the general topic of Mobil 1 oil, ring seating and how the finding of metal shavings on my magnetic oil plug in my 65 bug ,converted me to a " oil changing fanatic ". I purchased a 997 because I didn't want a Golf... but I must say the VW Phantom is cool, but way over-priced. Let's see where that analysis takes us.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 63,183
    Can't post it... it is in another forum.. :blush:

    Anyway, the guy lives in Little Rock.. He says it is serviced by the only Porsche repair shop in Arkansas (independent). The scratches/dings are in the rear driver's side quarter panel, along the wheel arch.. really, really small..

    He wants to sell it to buy an '03 Z4 3.0.. Guess he wants a convertible..


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  • I am looking to purchase an 03 C2 911 converible. 18K miles.

    what does C2 mean. it's a 6 speed with Nav
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "2" means rear wheel drive, as opposed to "4" meaning AWD.

    I thought the "C" meant "Coupe", since I often see coupes referred to as "C2" or "C4S", etc. For Cabriolet's, I usually see them referred to as just "Cab", "Cab 4", "Cab S" , etc. so calling a convertible a C2 may technically be a misuse of the "C".

    Now, someone tell me that the "C" stands for Carrera and I'll shut up.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,260
    Contrary to many others here (and in the Porsche world), I really never liked the 993. I started to dig the 911 when the 996 model came out.

    Growing up my favorite Posche was a 944 Turbo. I always like the 928s (plural) also.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 57,343
    944 Turbo was a fabulous handling car, 928s a fine highway cruiser (GT car), both are still bargains compared to the older used 911s.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 63,183
    I don't know for sure... but, I think the "C" does stand for Carrera.. :blush:


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  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I'm not totally sure either but I think C2, C2S, C4S etc. are just media abbreviations, they are not official Porsche designations. If I had to guess I'd say this started in the classifieds. The official model designations are Carrera, Carrera Cabriolet, Carrera S, Carrera 4S etc. We see "C2S cab" etc. so it stands to reason that the C stands for Carrera. The official Porsche internal designations have numbers like 997 followed by another numerical suffix.

    BTW, 944s have a big cult following particularly the 951 (Turbo).
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Contrary to many others here (and in the Porsche world), I really never liked the 993. I started to dig the 911 when the 996 model came out.

    I hear you. I never liked the front of the 993 but the wide-body rear is special. I also like the spartan 993 interior. There are two camps. Some really see the 996 styling as a good modern evolution. Others can't stand it. I think the design of the 996 interior is splendid if you can forgive the cheap-looking materials. 996 created quite a schism what with the water-cooled engine sans dry sump, fried-egg headlamps and radical interior. They took that radical departure even a step further with 997; not with looks, rather with handling and steering.
  • "I am looking to purchase an 03 C2 911 converible. 18K miles."

    I found a silver one with Black and black (top and int) is $54,000 a fair price. It looks pristine. How much is an extended warranty on one of these boys.
  • I am in the market for a 2005 C2 Cab (997). Even though most dealers try to sell this car for 72K+, i think they are dreaming!
    What would you guess the right price is? I am thinking more like 67-68K max for a 15K miles with Xenon, Bose.
    What's the trade in value for this car? around 60-62k?
    Any comment / advice would be appreciated

    PS: I live in FL so market might be a little higher
  • 72K for a used 911 C2 Cab seems high. You might look for a left over 2006 or a low option new car. The cars can be ordered any way you want. The dealers have a large mark up & they might be flexible in the winter on a Cab.
  • Interesting article in the Feb 24 "Economist" magazine
  • I just bought my 05 cab yesterday in Dallas. It has 17,000 miles with Bose, Xenon, Tiptronic, Nav,Sports Chrono, Power heated seats and 19" wheels. I gave $69,000 for it. I did a little research and felt comfortable with my deal. The car is my first Porsche and it handles and sounds awesome. I hope this information helps. Good luck.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Figuring out the "right" price on a used 911 isn't as easy as looking up the vehicle on Edmunds or Kelly Blue Book.

    Edmunds (sorry Host) is ridiculously horrible relative to it's list of options. KBB is better, but not by much. As I'm sure you are aware, with 3 pages of options, the difference between a low optioned, average optioned, high optioned and absurdly optioned 911 can easily be $25,000+ More on a base (non S) model that doesn't include xenons, PASM, etc. as standard. The first $10,000-$15,000 include some useful (valuable) options, after that, it starts getting into diminishing return cosmetic options.

    Also, the difference in model year, if there weren't changes, is important, but you need to consider in-service date (warranty left) and mileage (tires and service requirements).

    I happen to have a 2005 Cab S that had an MSRP of $102,880. That includes $13,000 +/- of options, including Bose/6CD, Nav, Power/Full Leather/Heated seats, sport chrono, sport exhaust and a few other options. Purchased new in September 2005 (as 2006's were just arriving) for a $10k discount. Current MSRP on a comparable 2007 would be about $106,000.

    According to my dealer, a fair private party price on my car (17 months old, today perfect condition, 12,500 miles) would be about 25% under current comparable MSRP ($77-78k +/-). At his dealership, they would be pricing it as a certified car at $83k +/- with some room for negotiation. It is Seal Grey and Black, an easy combo relative to re-sale.

    Figure out what the MSRP was of the car you are considering and work back from there.
  • Thanks to all of you for your replies. You all confort me into my assesment of a 2005 Cab.
    Habitat1, I think that your number of 25% of MSRP is exactly what I was thinking about. Therefore a 2005 C2 Cab with limited options and MSRP around 88-90K should worth 66-68K... exactly what I want to pay for that.
    Proposing that amount to a dealer for a non-certified car should trigger the deal!!

    thanks again.. I will let you know as soon as I have my car
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    FWIW, if you can get the car certified (7 year, 100k warranty?), I'd be tempted to pay at least $2,500 more for that. The best price I've found for an extended warranty on my car is $4,000+ for 100k miles.
  • shulseshulse Posts: 11
    I agree the PASM is very noticeable. Here is a question, do you order that as an option on the base Carrera, or get it with the bundle on the S model?

    I'm in the middle of this decision right now, let me know your thoughts.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    You didn't ask me, but my thoughts would be to go for the "S" model rather than add PASM to the base. You'll also get xenons (highly recommended), 19" wheels/tires (295 series rear) and sport steering wheel, not to mention the 355hp 3.8 liter engine. If the "S" vs. base + added options price becomes less than $7,000, I think the "S" is worth the difference in performance and resale. And with PASM and xenons, you are practically there.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441

    I'll agree with habitat1... but let me emphasize that the S's extra ponies are significant enough, IMO... and Porsche HP is almost always worth the premium, also IMO.

    But regardless, I'm glad you recognize that PASM is worth it... even if only for those "special" drives once in a while going through the back twisty roads. ;)

  • hotrod81hotrod81 Posts: 16
    I thought that NHS "National Humane Society" sounded strange. They are raffling a Porsche in the latest edition of Excellence. HUS (Humane Society of the United States) is the one I am familiar with. Looked up NHS at (charity reporting agency) and here is what they say:

    "has not responded to Alliance requests for information or has declined to be evaluated in relation to the Alliance’s Standards for Charity Accountability. While participation in the Alliance’s charity review efforts is voluntary, the Alliance believes that this lack of cooperation may demonstrate a lack of commitment to transparency and accountability. "

  • sirdarby1sirdarby1 Posts: 36
    Consumer reports rates the overall reliability horribly on these 911s except for 1997 and 2004.

    What happened in these years that make these cars the exception.

    I also notice that used cars for 97 and 2004 reflect an exceptionally high price tag.

    What gives?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! CR might as well be from OZ.

    Fluctuations to the extent shown by their statistics are of little value. If these cars were living in the shop we'd all be talking about it. It just isn't so.

    Mathematically, an ultra reliable car can make a reliable car look like a shop lizard. Case in point, if the ultra reliable car has an average of .5 shop visits per 100 cars annually (1 per 200), then a car that has only 1.5 average shop visits per 100 vehicles is 200% worse than the top model. A car visiting the shop 3 times is 500% worse! That SOUNDS absolutely horrible, and is a statistical nightmare, but in reality it is actually a reasonably reliable car that is represented to be totally unreliable... making the statistics meaningless... but all the hype sells more worthless magazines, and lots more Toyotas.

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