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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans

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Comments

  • smlycatsmlycat Posts: 23
    Forget the PAX tires, go with a set of EX wheels. Several dealers are offering a package deal that includes the TPMS. We did about 2 years ago and have had zero problems. For that matter, Tirerack offers several alternatives as well.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 774
    After owning four Odysseys in the last 8 years, I finally had all I could stand with the PAX debacle. When I took my 07 touring in for a few minor repairs, the technician checked out the whole van--he reported back that my PAX tires might last another 2000 miles if I was lucky (current odometer = 27000). I got 35k miles out of my last set of PAX, so this was a bit of a surprise. I changed the oil and rotated the tires religiously at 5000 miles and kept tire pressure constant. The dealer's price to replace my PAX tires would be $1434 plus tax ($90). So, I traded the van for a Mazda CX-9. I still think the Odyssey is the best family vehicle ever sold in this country, but Honda really let us down by not standing behind PAX.
  • After reading every message on this forum for a couple years and fretting about my PAX tires, I am finally PAX free. I have a 2006 and went with 2009 Acura TL wheels and BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A Touring 235/60/17. I bought new TPMS and they reset just fine. A special THANK YOU to everyone that has taken the time to post all the information on this forum. It made my decision a lot easier.
    Don
  • I am sure the question has been discussed at length but was not able to really find an answer in the forum. SO here it comes again.
    I have a 07’ Sienna Limited AWD (Purchased with 7,000 miles in 2008). the van has 23k miles on the van and same on the tires) I completely blew it on the rotating tire schedule (I learned my lesson). I now have two shot front RFT OEM tires and 2 pretty good rear tires with tons of tread.
    I am having trouble deciding my next move. I have visited 3 tire stores to get some advice

    Costco they don’t do run flats but could put on 4 nice all season Michelins for $600+.
    Les Schwab who advised only run flats and only 4 tires at $1,000.

    Discount Tires, can do 2 run flats and rotate the used RFT to the front and put new ones in the back (around $400.
    Is this a really bad Idea or just "not ideal"

    I am hoping folks using this forum have some experience in this give me your two cents as far as moving forward.
  • smlycatsmlycat Posts: 23
    Just how shot are the fronts with only 7K on them? That's usually the time to rotate them accordign to most owner's manuals. I'd rotate them - the fronts take most of the abuse - and just watch it on wet roads if the tread is gone. Again, I can't believe the tread is shot at 7k.

    Check your tire pressure weekly. Low pressure is your enemy. Check for uneven wear, this would idicate an alignment problem.

    If you have to replace them, I'd probably opt for the run flats since you can have them repaired at most tire shops. Question, do you have a jack, tools, and a spare? If so, then going with less costly conventional tires is an option too. But $400 for 2 tires out the door is about the norm these days.
  • Hi Don,
    I will probably end up PAX free in the not too distant future....how much did the Acura wheels and BF tires run - all linstalled? Curious. And who did it for you? Honda Dealer, someone else? I own my Odyssey.
    Many thanks,
    Katonah
  • Sorry if I gave the impression that the tires had just 7k on them. they have 23K on them and only one rotation early on.
  • Hi Katonah. I bought the wheels on ebay, they were new take-offs from a Acura dealer. It so happened they were sold by a dealer in Kansas City and I live nearby so I picked them up, saved shipping but had to pay tax, total was $573.00. I paid just under $600.00 for the tires, including road hazard and life time balance. I wanted to buy Kumho Road Venture APT KL51 which were cheaper and rated higher on tirerack, but tire shop was having problems getting them ordered and am going on a long trip next week. I also bought new TPMS on ebay for $130.00, new lug nuts, spare wheel and spare hardware from Honda $113.00 and spare tire from tirerack $137.49. So looks like a total of $1,553.49. Just got the tires so too soon to judge them, they do seem to be quiter and handle well and the wheels look great.

    As for who installed them, Gene's Tire in Liberty, Mo. I had kind of a hard time finding someone to work with me, everyone was afraid of Honda lawsuits, including Gene's at first. I was hesitant to buy them from tirerack because their local installers here were either expensive or seemed to be incompetent. Anyway, I am just glad this is finally over.

    Don
  • krzysskrzyss Posts: 848
    With AWD it may not be good idea to replace only 2 tires. Check manual what Toyota says about maximum circumference difference. For example Subaru advises that all tires should be within .25" with each other's circimference.

    You can go Go Flat tires but are you ready to handle flat tire situation without spare. Do you plan to buy spare tire along with regular tires.

    Krzys
  • smlycatsmlycat Posts: 23
    Hi Rareair:

    I missed that nugget of info....23k, no rotation....could be a problem, but it depends on just how bad they are. You need an honest tire tech to advise you. My other comments still stand.

    Good luck!
  • skap2skap2 Posts: 34
    Just replaced Pax on our 2007 Touring w new wheels from a 2009 Pilot. The master indicator says tire pressure ok, but when I select info to see individual pressure in each tire, front driver says 36 psi, other three are flat lined, no psi indicated. Restarted several times, drove aobut 10 miles, no change.

    How can it indicate tire pressure ok with readings from only one of them ? thanks much.
  • mixa1mixa1 Posts: 4
    I got screwed the second time: without too much discussion judge dismissed my small claims against local Honda dealership. When I argued that Honda dealership violated my state's consumer protection statute by failing to disclose important facts about the pax system the judge, without any help from Honda's counsel, stated:
    a. The dealership does not have to disclose anything unless they are doing some PR campaign and do it in good will;
    b. They didn't fail to disclose because the information was most likely available on the Internet;
    c. This particular statute is usually applied to used cars and not to a standard features on the new cars.
    I can appeal within one week with $500 bond. Any suggestions?
  • DEPAXED VAN!! YAY!!! :)
    After many headaches and hundreds of dollars spent on tires and years of dealing with the tires, we finally got fed up with the JUNK PAX tires, that we all got sold after buying the VAN for almost $40K. (you would expect at least a good set of tires)

    Bought some RIMs from a local tire dealer, with the following Specs:
    RIMS: 17" Alloy's with Offset: +42mm, Bolt Pattern: 5-120

    Tires: hankook optimo h727 225/60R17 80,000 mile tires

    Removed the tires sensor's (I cut the tires myself...it felt good)

    Inflated the tires with nitrogen at 35psi Front and 37psi Rear.

    Van rides and turns like is on rails, no more harsh ride, no more weird vibrations from the tires getting off balance, because of the gel pax.

    Very Happy Camper!!!!!

    PS: still waiting for Michelin to refund us some kind of $ for all the money we spent on crappy tires.

    Also having a hard time finding the PAX APPROVED SPARE TIRE KIT see link:

    http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/AI/AJA41932.pdf

    I was told to call this number to order 1800-999-1009, I can't believe they want $250 for a stupid spare donut tire. Honda/Michelin is only paying for $110 on the Class action Suit settlement I think that's BS.

    I will report when I get the Spare tire
  • Got to a junk yard and buy the spare out of an EX or LX model. The mounting kit for the spare tire well from Honda is less than $10 bucks.

    I installed a set of standard EX wheels on my Ody, new Touring TPMS sensors...did it for less than $700. Found a spare in the junk yard for $20. All you need is the correct spare tire size, this is standard size.

    Good luck and welcome to the de-Pax club!
  • As the deadline draws near to submit our claim forms for the absurd class action settlement, has ANYONE had success taking Honda/Michelin to small claims court to get remibursed for the total replacement cost to "DePax" your Odyssey?

    If so, please provide details as to what you presented to the judge and how much money you received from Honda/Michelin.

    Thanks.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,189
    We were looking at a new Odyssey Touring when it first came out (in 2006?). We needed a Touring because my wife is short and wanted the adjustable pedals. Then I became aware of the PAX tires and got cold feet. I envisioned a limited availability tire that I would have to pay a fortune for, or pay to change not only tires but wheels as well. I was worried these tires would not take off in the market and would end up "orphaned". I ended up deferring the new car purchase and avoiding the Honda. Honda lost a high-end van sale to us because of those tires.

    Now I see that my fears were pretty spot on. Sorry to all of you, best of luck in dePAXing.

    BTW, we bought a Mazda 5 (microvan). Less room inside, but barely half the price and a blast to drive! Then we bought a 2004 Ody used. Both vehicles for about the price of the Touring + DePAX!
  • Please don't read us wrong, the Odyssey is a great vehicle, I think most of us would purchase one again. As everything in life there is a time where a van is handy, but I'm sure in a few years, our kids will be gone to college and driving their own cars, so fo the time being I will enjoy our DE-PAXED van and may be one day not too far away I can get my dream Infinity M35.

    Happy Holidays to all!!
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 774
    We owned four Odys since 2001. They were fantastic vehicles but we traded the two Tourings when the PAX tires wore out. In one case, that was at 35k and in the other it was only 27k. The best part was that the resale value was so high that it really didn't hurt too bad. We've got a Mazda CX-9 now and miss the Odys utility.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,189
    Please don't read us wrong, the Odyssey is a great vehicle, I think most of us would purchase one again. As everything in life there is a time where a van is handy, but I'm sure in a few years, our kids will be gone to college and driving their own cars, so fo the time being I will enjoy our DE-PAXED van and may be one day not too far away I can get my dream Infinity M35.

    Don't read me wrong, as I indicated we ended up buying a new Mazda 5 for about $23K and then a used 2004 Ody for about $18K. So for about $41K we purchased TWO cars, including the previous model Ody, that we would have paid for the original Touring we were looking at -- for about the same price.

    We really like the 04 Ody but are surprised at how tinny it is compared to our previous Mercury Villager. But we did avoid the whole PAX situation. And my 17yo daughter now drives the Mazda.
  • I have run flats on my 2005 Sienna. Getting ready to put my 3rd set of tires on at 60,000 miles. After reading all the negative comments, I'm ready to dump the AWDs in favor of conventional tires, but not sure about some details: Can I still use conv. on an AWD model? Do I need to buy new wheels? Will the conv. tires cause problems with the tire pressure sensor system? How does altering the tire system affect resale (if I decide to sell/trade-in, is the lack of a spare going to destroy the value?)
    Thanks much!
  • The run-flat tires on Siennas are not like the PAX run-flats that are the subject of this forum. Something entirely different.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    Where do you live that you would purchase an all wheel drive van to begin with? Are you in a heavy snow belt that requires a good all season tire?
    As has been stated, PAX and run flats are miles apart and you should be able to mount up a go-flat tire onto your existing rims with little issue. You WILL need to get a spare. This is a five year old van with 60K on it already and you are concerned about resale?
  • Hi Chirp, Thanks for the info.
    Yes, Minnesota does get some snow in the winter and I thought it might be a prudent investment for my wife and kids to have the AWD...
  • skap2skap2 Posts: 34
    No Ody owners can go to small claims court unless you opted out of the class action and gave notice to lawyers for Honda, Michelin and plaintiffs within the deadline. If you're asking now and didn't opt out, you're most likely stuck with the settlement. I opted out and preparing my lawsuit to file soon.
  • jac1304jac1304 Posts: 33
    On the 2011 Toyota Sienna AWD comes with run flats, what is difference between this and Honda's system? Also, can you get snow tires that are run flat.

    Thanks.
  • The run-flat tires that Toyota and most other auto manufacturers use have short, stiff, sidewalls that can carry the weight of the vehicle for a while without air in the tires.

    The Michelin PAX tires that Honda uses have a cage on the rim inside the tire that supports the tire when the air is lost. Special rims and tire mounting equipment is required to get the tires on and off the rims over the cage. Special rims and mounting equipment + low volume product = big bucks for replacing the tires. And the rubber compound that is used for the PAX tires is such that many users wear the tires out quickly.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    I would just get a good all season tire then that is recommended by your tire guys or online at Tirerack and a spare from a auto recycling business(junkyard) or Toyota dealer. Changing out the PAX on the Odyssey is a much more complicated and costly process, so be glad you aren't in that boat. :)
  • skap2skap2 Posts: 34
    For our depax I got Continental ContiPro Contact all seasons. 80K mile treadwear warranty, about $110 each plus install. They may be running a rebate again. I have no connection to Continental other than being a big fan of their tires. On our Ody they were awesome this winter during the blizzard in Maryland. They're not snow tires but on regular snow grip was about as good as you can get for all seasons.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 774
    Not to bore anyone here, but just in case anyone from Honda ever checks this forum: I traded in my fourth and LAST Odyssey following the PAX settlement. Although I think the Ody is the best vehicle in the world for a family, the settlement that paid lawyers and did absolutely nothing for loyal customers was the last straw for me.

    I owned four Odysseys from 2001-2009 and two of them were PAX equipped. I bought the first one without knowing about the problems with PAX and I bought the second because I was confident that Honda would do the right thing. Shame on you Honda.

    So, Honda won't have the opportunity to replace one of my four cars every year...
  • For years, I've been watching everyone complain about run flat tires on Sienna vans. I've got 144,000 miles on my 2004 AWD sienna and I'm just getting ready to put on my third set of tires, so I'm getting almost 50,000 miles out of a set. I'm using original equipment Bridgestones on mine. Maybe I'm just lucky! Now there have been a couple of times that I took my van to a Firestone store for an oil change and he wanted me to buy new tires. I looked at the tread and if it was summer, I said I'd wait until winter.
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