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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions



  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Recall that the "base" LWB has Nav/HDD, back-up camera, XM, climate-control seats, power rear sunshade, power trunk open/close... all standard, adding $10K to "base" SWB for these features.

    So let's extrapolate to the 600hL which will have all of the 460L features, plus ML, LED hi/low beams, 19" wheels, Park assist, smart key, AWD, bigger 5.0L motor, batteries, higher output (444hp), E-CVT, and adaptive variable air suspension, all standard... I'd say these should add $15-20K premium to "base" 460L.

    Hence, my guestimate for the 600hL is $90K start to $105K loaded with the 4-seat Executive package.

    Here is the caveat: If Lexus wants this car to be truly exclusive low production model, then they could start it at $100K with everything except the 4-seat package, which if included would push its price to the NYT speculated $120K point. Its still a bargain compared to its true peer - the Maybach 57/62 which will run you north of $200K++.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I'm thinking the same thing. A LWB car that is configured at $74-80K looks like one heck of a buy.

    BTW crude oil is now in the $57.70 range and I'm paying $2.19 - $2.24 for 89 octane and $2.29 - $2.35 for 93.

    "Here is the caveat: If Lexus wants this car to be truly exclusive low production model, then they could start it at $100K with everything except the 4-seat package, which if included would push its price to the NYT speculated $120K point. Its still a bargain compared to its true peer - the Maybach 57/62 which will run you north of $200K++."

    That's why the issue of a car above this in 2009 plays into this cars pricing strategy. That car is probably a foot longer and - well let's just say super luxurious (I learned my wording lesson yesterday) and 500+ horses.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I agree with you. In fact, with the features already standard on the LWB, plus ML and Touring Package, you'd be at ~$80K even. That is a premium over the S550, with far more features.

    The SWB I am looking at will sticker at $71K, which is 5K over my target, but still do-able...

    OPEC cut production by 1m bpd today, so we should expect a slight uptick soon... And who knows what geo-political event lies ahead with Iran, which should push the price of oil to the $100 mark pretty quick... Here in my neck of the woods, 89 Octane is $2.35 and 91 is $2.59 / gallon.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Don't know if OPEC cuts will matter. The supply was always ample, That was a bubble we were in. I see oil down to the $48-$52 range in the future.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    That's why the issue of a car above this in 2009 plays into this cars pricing strategy. That car is probably a foot longer and - well let's just say super luxurious (I learned bu wording lesson yesterday) and 500+ horses.

    ooppss.. I forgot about the higher version above the LS series (rumored L650, with a V10 or V12 motor)). That's the super exclusive model, which should be competing at the S600-S65 price.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I see oil down to the $48-$52 range in the future.

    I have to disagree.... In fact I see oil going HIGHER in the future not lower. Demand from China and India will increase, supply will decrease, and add in geopolitical events in Russia and the Middle East (lots bubbling underneath in these countries) which would exacerbate oil price to the higher range. I'd say we should enjoy the days of sub-$3 /gallon gasoline for now. Its gonna get worse.

    I'll e-mail you on some of this stuff privately, look out for it soon...
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Hence, my guestimate for the 600hL is $90K start to $105K loaded with the 4-seat Executive package.

    I know it's impossible to keep track of all the posts, so I'll just throw a reminder at you. You can verify that I posted on the HELM forum, as far back as April 14th, that the MSRP for the LS600hL will be $91,350.

    I've never adjusted my prediction at any time, and I still stand by it.

    God only knows how far off I'll be, but my prediction was made well before ANY new LS pricing was announced whatsoever.

    To be honest, it was a gut call, based upon what I knew of the vehicle, it's specifications, and my perception of Lexus marketing.

    And, I'm having an extra dose of fun waiting to see how close I come.

    BTW, I agree with you on the oil scenario. It will get worse over time. This easing of prices was only natural. Oil prices are kind of like using a yo-yo while walking up a mountain . . . ups and downs while the overall trend goes higher.

  • Lexus Link was discontinued for the 2004- LS 430, but has been brought back for the LS 460, apparently with new organization, etc. It might be similar, but have nowhere near the functions, of the LS 460 G-Book in Japan, which offers--music downloads, an internal security camera that allows you to check on your LS via cellphone when it is in the parking lot, etc etc. Remote start is another Japan-only option...

    I agree Dynamic Radar should be standard, but we are seeing the LS 460 'bargain' base models be somewhat decontented (some even with no NAVI screen). It seems that the 2007 LS has a very large range of options and features, from basic to maxed out, fully loaded.

    As for the hybrid, I think it's pretty clear that the only hybrids that will actually save you money are the Prius and its competitors, which according to Consumer Reports will give you a few hundred dollars of savings after 5 years or so. The LS 600h L is about more power, lower emissions, and better but not superlative fuel economy. We'll have to wait and see about the trunk space--recently Lexus has not been shy about restricting it, and with the new LS, the different A/C filter options already intrude on trunk space.

    Lastly, I hope the L600 or L650 is targeted at Rolls/Bentley/Maybach, and maybe with super S600 pricing. But I believe the LS 600h L is the rightful vehicle to target the S600, content wise.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    Your pricing and option breakdown for the LS600HL makes a lot of sense. Is it possible that the starting point is in the low 80sK?? If you recall, I posted last night that I saw my friend's LS460L pricing at $78K. This includes the Mark Levinson system, the new Navigation system, and the new parking assist as options and perhaps one or two more other minor options. It does not include the radar cruise control. I imagine this option is about 2K which would bring the cost up to about 80K. So, theoretically, it is possible that the 600HL could start in the low 80sK but not likely. We probably need to add about 5K premium for hybrid version and here we are in the high 80sK. I really believe that this is where the 600HL will start.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    When I was at the auto show I was told pricing wasn't set but likely would range from $82K - $102K. But it looks to me that Lexus studies show an ability to charge more so I'm liking a range of your starting point of $87K to OAC's $90K. I do think we'll have a $20K spread between base and fully optioned which is consistent with the range I was given at the auto show. After thinking about it the marketing in me says the logical range is $89,995 - $109,995 fully loaded with PCS and the 4 seat package. I think you'll see most cars ship in the $94-95K range with the handful of lower priced options configured into every car. That's why I call those things standardized options.
  • jd14jd14 Posts: 128
    I agree somewhat with the majority of price ranges posted on this forum for the 600h L, but $109,995 seems too high for Lexus. The LS line ranging in price from $61K to $110K just doesn't seem likely to me...although I could easily be wrong. Just my opinion.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Well the better way to look at is that in its most popular forms the LS will range from $65K - $85K. Suddenly you have a much narrower bandwidth. But you are crossing from a V8 to V12 equivalent when you bring in the 600HL. So naturally the banwidth gets a lot bigger. In the LS430 you technically had a $55K-75K (loaded ultra with PCS) bandwidth and you only had one model and one engine. Now you have 3 models, two engines and sophistication options everywhere. The more variance in options you have the greater the price bandwidth. Besides all that the $61K car doesn't exist in the real world and the $110K car (if that price is right) is a rarity.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,302
    I don't think that folks will be purchasing this car with the idea that they will be saving money on gas. They will be buying it for its amazing technological innovations, awesome power, AWD, environmental concerns, etc. Yes, the trunk space is a concern for those that need a big trunk, but all I need is a trunk big enough to fit a few pieces of luggage. Let's wait and see how big or small this trunk will be.

    I don't know why you and some others are so concerned about the cost of a replacement battery. Give me a break. It will last for at least 10 years and maybe "forever". The original Prius battery is still doing great with as much as 200,000 miles of driving in some cases. This is a new generation battery that will be vastly improved over that of the original Prius. How many folks keep their cars for more than ten years these days?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Couldn't agree more.
  • Another consideration besides the L650 is the rumored GT 450/GT 500 supercar, which unlike the L650 has actually been seen in the flesh in some form or another...and that car has a rumored $100,000+ pricetag.

    I'm not very familiar with supercar pricing/features, but I wonder how the valuation of the car itself vs. the interior accoutrements would compare between the LS 600h L and GT 500? With the LS 600h L vs. L650 the comparison seems more clear...the L650 will offer more of what the LS has, plus extra stuff--and probably in a more exclusive, indivdualized format that is more chauffeur-oriented and less flexible than the LS...

    But the LS 600h L vs. GT 500...?
  • lsmwclsmwc Posts: 2
    This is my first post to this board. Tomorrow night (Oct 12) my wife and I, along with 100 to 200 others, have been invited to a private showing of the 07 Lexus vehicles. We have been promised at least one LS 600 will be included. But we're hoping both a LS 600 and a LS 600L will be on display.

    I'm very excited because I’ve been in love with the LS 600 and the 600L since I first viewed pictures of them on the Internet last January at the New York auto show. Surely the salesmen have the official prices by now. I sure hope so. I'll let you know if the prices are announced.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    There can only be an LS600HL. There is no LS600H for the US. Are you mixing up the 460 and 460L? The prices have been announced already.
  • lsmwclsmwc Posts: 2
    Man did I have it all balled up. Of course I mean the 460 and 460L. Yes I know the base prices have been released, but I haven't seen pricing for the individual options. If option pricing has been announced, please let me know where I can find the list. Thanks a million.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I don't believe I have seen this question asked or answered yet.

    Does anyone know if the Nav in the new LS460 will permit on-the-fly route changes and input, as in the Acura RL ? Or are we still saddled with the lawyerly-based Nav with "I Agree", and grayed out features while the car is in motion...
  • The over-5 mph safety restrictions still apply, AFAIK. However. some functions (such as bluetooth dialing), are now available in motion via voice commands.

    Furthermore, with the XM NavTraffic, the LS 460 will be one of the first cars, if not the first, to offer dynamic rerouting (change your route on-the-fly due to traffic conditions). I'm pretty sure that option will be available while in motion.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    What options would you pass on/definitely include?. First off I'd take the 460L. I'd pass on 4 zone climate (my kids can have the climate I dial up), PCS (though I'd take it if it was in a car I wanted on the lot), the 4 seat package and Lexus Link. I'd take AWD in a second if it was available (and you know it will be at some point, hopefully in the second half of the model year) and I'd also take the DVD system if it was an individual option and was placed in the head rests but alas it seems to be omitted as well. Dynamic laser cruise is not a big issue for me - just give me cruise but I'd expect just about every car shipped will have the laser cruise. After that it's an issue of sports suspension or air suspension for me. I'd take either and pass on the standard suspension.

    If I'm dealing with the LS600HL I'd pass on the PCS, 4 seat package and the 4 zone climate control.

    If my price estimates are right I should be around $81K for the LS460L and low 90's for the HL. Given AWD, added power and the added features/luxury of the HL it's the way I'd go without much thought. But I'm still concerned on price of the LS600HL.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I think you pretty much ball-parked it right on, Len... Using the posted pricing from a SE Lexus dealer:

    AS Air Suspension
    LL Luxury pkg. with Semi-Aniline leather
    MH Mark Levinson with HDD
    MZ Lexus Link
    PA Intuitive park assist
    PI Advanced Parking Guidance system
    Trunk mat, Wheel locks...
    Approx $81420

    Subtract PI & MZ, and you can get this car at $77K. Now add Touring Package or just plain jane air suspension, and you are at $81K.. which kinda fits perfectly your estimate above.

    For me, its pretty simple:
    LS460 SWB
    CP = Comfort Package
    NV = Nav w/Bluetooth/backup Camera
    PP = Auto Power Door Close & Auto Power Trunk
    PA = Parking Assist
    Z1 = Preferred Accessory Package
    MSRP = $67,242

    Looks like a good deal, except I'd take out PP and PA, and add in the 19-speaker ML (that's a "must-have"), and it'd still net out at under $70K. Anything over that may just push me into the LWB "base" + ML for like $74K. I gotta decide how elastic my price point will be....($68K SWB or $74K LWB) And if the Touring Pkg will make it into the mid-year refresh next year, that will greatly impact my choice and price elasticity :)
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    OAC - I forgot about the advanced parking assist. I guess that is the parralel parking feature. If I parralel park 10 times a year it's a lot. I'd pass on that as well.
  • landilandi Posts: 44
    Just came from Newport Lexus and they have 7 0r 8 LSs. Two silver and rest grey. The grey looks best. This car is so luxurious inside and out. I saw the sticker that was hidden in the trunk was just under $86,000. So the numbers that we have seen for the western region posted by Lexus of Glendale are accurate to the $. The trunk with rear air is ok. The AC unit takes up the rear of the trunk so the remainder of the truck is nice and rectangular but not deep. The rear seats are just so comfortable with lots of room even with the front seat all the way back and the rear seat all the way reclined and pushed forward. The middle seat is not very comfortable with no headroom for me (6’00’’). Cars cannot be driven until the 20th when they go on sale. The driving position is like a GS-very sporty.
  • jd14jd14 Posts: 128
    California here I come!!!
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    With $86K -$91K pricing (maybe all the way to $95K or $96K with PCS) on the higher end LS460L's Lexus has moved up to 2nd in pricing and not much behind the number 1 guy in V8 lux sedans. It looks like the company satisfied both value seekers and those that wanted that high pricing at the same time.

    Doc, Steve - you guys happy??
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The driving position is like a GS-very sporty.

    If by "sporty", you mean you sit low in the bathtub and the cowl is high in front of you, I won't like this car. Is that what you're saying?
  • sidgriggssidgriggs Posts: 122
    My dealer gave me this price:
    LS460 SWB
    CP = Comfort Package
    NL = Nav w/Bluetooth/backup Camera
    PA = Parking Assist
    Z1 = Preferred Accessory Package
    MSRP = $69,377
    I'm in Texas
  • landilandi Posts: 44
    I think I know what you mean. In the GS, you sit so low that the instrument panel seems to be blocking your view and I do not like it either. LS is not like that but it is not like the LS430 wide open view either. In the brief time that I spent in the car, the doors did not make me feel like I was sitting on a bathtub. With sporty I mean that the gear shifter is short and the area between the two front seats is wide and high. I did raise the seat and felt that I had a good view of the outside. I hope I answered your question. I hope to go to the party later tonight; I will check it out again.
  • landilandi Posts: 44
    No, that seems high. See post #3134 for more accurate information. I saw a car in the OC Auto show which had the same sticker.
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