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Purchasing at the End of Your Lease



  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Check with your bank or credit union, or check with Capital One auto financing online. C1 current rates are 3.99% to 5.09% for used cars and 4.19% for refinance. My CU (PenFed) is doing 2.49% for new / used / refinance. Membership is a $5 share if you are / were in the military or have a relative that is/was or work for various government agencies and contractors. Everyone else can join one of 2 support groups for a one time fee of $15 or $20 (plus the $5 CU share) and become a member. The low rates (if you qualify) will more than make up for the small cost to join. They sent me a check made out to me and Honda Finance, which I endorsed and mailed off to Honda. Since I wanted to finance my sales tax, they sent me a separate check (make out to only me) for the taxes. I deposited that, then used that money to title the car with a lien to Penfed once they sent me the title.

    Once you have a check in hand (or money in the bank) you just do an odometer statement and mail it in with the payoff check to Honda Finance and they send you (or the bank) the title. Otherwise, you have to go through a dealer who will likely have a higher rate and may charge you doc and other fees. You can go through any Honda dealer, not just the one you leased from. You could also try to sell your to any dealer, like Carmax, if the value exceeds the buy out. Having damage to it may preclude this option.
  • Hi everyone, I am going to leave out the make and model of my new vehicle purchase and trade in experience but this story is 100% true. Yesterday I went down to a local dealer to purchase a new car and trade or close out my lease. Long story short, I agree on a price for a new car and a trade in value for my leased vehicle, where the dealer would purchase the car from me and remit the payoff to the financing company. I was very pleased until this point. I agreed to a trade in value of my leased car of $14,900 which they said would match the payoff balance of 14,900 at the leasing company (they called to confirm the payoff).

    So I complete the bill of sale, purchase and financing contracts on 8/31 that show trade in of 14,900 and pay off of 14,900. However, it was the end of the day and for some reason the dealer had a computer glitch and I was unable to sign the electronic "Dealer trax" system they use. So as it was around 10pm, I agree to comeback on my lunch break for 5 minutes and finish it up. I went home with the new vehicle and turned my old vehicle over to them. Afterall, I did have the bill of sale contract and all the other paperwork.

    When I went back today, I was there for more than I bargained for. Because I had made a payment on my lease on 8/31 the payoff had apparently dropped to around 14,000.00 with the leasing company. And I was told that I need to sign another bill of sale for the updated payoff amount. When I looked at the new bill of sale the trade in price was now knocked down to 14,000.00 again matching the lease payoff.

    I refused to sign the new bill of sale and told them we have a done deal and they can work the accounting out themselves. I was rather livid.

    I did not request the difference at the time, but the more I think I believe I am entitled to the difference between the original 14,900 on the bill of sale as the TRADE IN VALUE, versus the 14,000 that was the lease payoff amount. Am I wrong in thinking this way? and what would be the best approach to getting my money back? I feel like I should hire a lawyer or write a letter myself to recoup the difference. Any advice?? Thanks in advance.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 21,970
    They can work it a few ways. One would be to give you the difference. Another, and possibly most likely, is that they will send the original agreed upon $14,900 to the leasing company and they will turn around and refund you the difference. This will probably take a month or so. The 3rd way would be that they apply the $900 towards your loan balance on the new car, which would lower your payments.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    You have yourself to blame, you made a deal with a pending payment and did not check to see that it cleared.

    That said, if they were willing to give you $14,900 before they should honor that. It is what is in your sales contract. If they will not, then give them back their car and unwind the deal and start over with another dealer.
  • why would I blame myself? I told them I had a pending payment, they said the finance co. would send me the difference.

    Then the next day they tried to change the paper work.

    Why would I unwind the deal at this point? I have the new car, I like the new car. I'm not going to hold there feet to the fire over the difference, it's just unprofessional to make a CUSTOMER sign a second bill of sale after agreeing on numbers and executing a contract the day before.
  • I paid off a Honda Pilot lease by buying the car from Honda Finance at the lease's end. Now how do I get them off of the title as lienholder? Do I have to pay taxes etc. at the DMV to become the sole owner of a car that I have always owned?
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,238
    First off, you have not always owned the car. Honda Financed owned the car (lessor) you were renting it (lessee). Now that you've bought it from Honda Finance you should have a title from them that you take and get transferred into your name. Depending on your state laws, you most likely owe tax on the sales price. This is really no different than buying any other used vehicle at this point.

    You say Honda Finance is on the title as lienholder? I don't really understand that part unless you financed the buy-out from Honda Finance as well.
  • I have a lease with BMWFS. I want to pay it off early and then turn around and do a private party sale to a guy at my office. For tax purposes, there must be two sales - one from BMWFS to me and one from me to the guy - the guy cannot buy direct from BMWFS.

    Putting aside all tax issues, what is the quickest way of doing this. If I FedEx a certified check to BMWFS for the full buyout amount, will they FedEx me the signed title the next day? And, if they do, can I sell the car to the guy that day - even though I havent yet had DMV transfer the title to my name?

    Any help is appreciated
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 63,177
    It might be cheaper for him to assume the lease, then do the buyout... That way, just a $500 transfer fee, then he pays the tax....


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  • Even if you FedEx them a certified check, in my experience expect a title to take a week to get to you.

    Second, you CANNOT just sign the title over to your buyer, you first must title the car in your name, pay tax and reg fees on it, and then sell the car to your buyer.

    If nothing else because BMW FS is almost certainly not going to send you an open title, it will be reassigned to you.

    Jumping title is illegal in any state that I am aware of.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    As others have said, in most states title can only pass to you or a licensed dealer. When it passes to you in most states sales tax will be due. Once that is paid you will have the title in your name, then you can sell your car to anyone. The person buying the car will then have to pay sales tax again. Usually this double tax makes this a bad deal for the buyer. In some states no tax is charged for a private sale and in some (CA?) you can ask for a tax refund if you re-sell a car you just purchased and paid tax on.

    You might be better off to try to find a licensed dealer to handle the sale for you. I have done this a few times (but not lately) and paid $400 or so to the dealer to handle it for me.

    It might also net you more money to sell your car to a dealer (assuming you have high taxes like me). Anything carmax or a dealer on autotrader (for example) gives you over the buyout amount is in your pocket - no taxes.
  • My car lease expired this month (Sep 2011). It was leased in New York state, but I am now living in GA. I called my dealer, and Toyota only option to buy out my lease was to go to any Toyota dealership. I went to one and told them exactly what I buy out my lease. They called for the payoff, marked it up $1000 and charged me $699 dealer prep. I kept saying that they couldn't mark up my residual. They kept saying they could. What they didn't say (and I unfortunately signed the finance papers) was that they paid off the lease, put the car in their inventory and sold it back to me. I feel stupid, but every question I asked was answered with a lie. If I was trading it in, I would have the option of accepting their offer. They pretended it was business as usual. I called them back the next day, accused them of fraud and told them I was reporting them to Toyota Corporate. They said they would give me my $1000 back. I assumed we would rework the papers. I had to go away for the weekend and now, the day of my appointment it's tonight), I find out my loan papers have been processed. I don't know what will happen tonight. Wasn't this fraud? They lied over and over. They never said they were buying my car from Toyota and selling it back to me! Why would I have done that? If I knew that and I wanted to be overcharged (I didn't), I would have used my 4% APR loan from Capital One (which could only be paid to a dealer) rather than B of A that they arranged @ 5.5% APR. They lied, they knew it was a lie, and I acted...loosing $1699. Fraud?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 21,970
    Let me ask this... upon selling it back to you, would it have been a CPO car?

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,238
    Actually, Toyota Motor Credit will only sell the vehicle through a dealer. Basically they sell the car to the dealer and the dealer in-turn sells it to you. That's how it works and there is no other way a dealer could sell you a vehicle TMC owns. The dealer fee is not unreasonable but might be a little high. I paid around $400 for them to process the buyout on my Tundra. I called around and found one that was reasonable. Some

    The $1,000 mark-up could be construed as fraud assuming you did not agree to that. But it sounds like you signed the docs and were aware of the markup at that time. I'm not sure how they could squeeze an extra $1,000 into the deal without you knowing/signing as such. There's no reason you couldn't have used your own financing as well.

    If they'll give you $1,000 then it sounds like you did alright. Pay it down on your note and forget about it.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 63,177 might be that way, but I'm going to agree with the scammed part.

    I know that on any of my leases, it says I can buy the car for a stated amount. There is no language that says the only way to do it is through a third party (the dealer), who can then add charges for their "services".

    Now, I know there are makes/banks that won't let you do it any other way, but I'm betting if you had a contract lawyer that wanted to make a point, they could put a stop to this..

    /rant over


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  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,238
    I would agree, but there's usually some caveat built in that says they can work it how ever they chose. If there was someone that really wanted to take it on, I'm sure you could argue. But usually it's after you already signed the contract when you decide you don't like it.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 63,177
    I'm just bitching about it... I never buy out my leases... but, most of the banks I've dealt with will sell it to you directly, without any extra charges...

    It just seems wrong to get extra charges that aren't part of the contract..


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  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,238
    It annoys the crap out of me as well, but the facts are it's really hard to fight them. I've done quite a few lease takeovers and then bought them out. GMAC and Toyota were the worst. GMAC actually had a different price for an early buyout depending on how you were terminating. A GM dealer had a typical buyout quoted (residual plus remaining payments less interest) vs some inflated number if you were trading it anywhere else. I can only imagine how bad the typical lessee gets rolled if they have no understanding of contracts, car sales, etc. I only did it to take advantage of someone else's loss and I made out quite well on the deals even with GMAC and Toyota's goofy buy-out rules. Almost no good leases out there to assume anymore. .

    Banks are usually better to deal with than the captives. I've leased $10M in equipment in the last few months and the independent banks beat that tar out of (insert major equipment manufacturers captive finance here) in both terms and contract stipulations. Hard to turn away the captives on vehicles though due to the heavy subsidies they sometimes offer.
  • I turned in my F-150 after the inspection for damage at the end of the lease as the dealership said I could not talk to them about buying it or another lease or new car until I turned it in for another inspection from Ford at their dealership. I kept calling and going in to inquire about this second inspection. Finally, they talked to me, and discussed my options since I was over

    mileage, saying a new car or lease would have to absorb 11K with their taking " a hit" of 6 thousand, along with my paying sticker price too. So I said I would simply pay 17K and buy my leased truck. Said he had to track it down, then 2 days later, said it was sold and I would have to go with paying 11 K cash up front and then finance the full sticker for a leased or new car. I think it is consumer fraud and don't know who to contact or if I have any recourse. I have very little money as it is let alone a ton of money to pay a lawyer and still have to possibly pay 11K etc. Advice? thanks!!!
  • Here's why I signed....I had arranged financing on line through Capital One, but found out it could not be used on a lease buy out. When I went on line to finance through Toyota, they sent me to the dealer. The dealer charge was high ($699 + tag/title) but all the Toyota dealerships in the Atlanta area charge the same. My NY dealership would have only charged for tag/title but I was in GA. If I had known in Aug, I would have driven up (I flew up over Labor Day to visit family!). I DID get my $1000 back from Stonecrest last night - they re wrote the contract and the B of A financing. I could have taken my chances in court because they lied about the mark up (that's fraud). And if I won, I would have gotten actual damages plus punitive damages. They did not say they were buying it, marking it up and selling it back to me. I was there to Buy Out not Turn In. They are the "middle man" and they do pay Toyota Finance directly. That's just the order of things, that is what the $699 covers. I was buying out my lease, per my contract. It was mine to buy at the residual price of $17,232. How Toyota sets up the paper trail should not violate my closed end lease. Here is what the problem was....they lied. And after 30 minutes of their lies they convinced me they could "mark up" my residual! Lying to get someone to sign something is fraud. They convinced me that as long as I was buying out through Stonecrest Toyota they could "change my residual"....their words! Even today, after getting my money last night, the salesman called me and to justify the fraud, he said it was not my car to buy!!!! They had the right to buy it and sell it back to me. lease buy out option gave me the right. Just because the paperwork flows through them, Toyota has given them the opportunity to rip off the lessee. Was I stupid to sign? Seems so, except I'd say they wore me down and convinced me that's how it worked. The funny thing took ONE call last week, saying "I know what you did, you lied about the legal ability to change the residual, sold the car back to me at a profit without touching it and disclosing what you did... lying to be unjustly enriched is fraud. If I wasn't going out of town the next day I would have had my money back sooner (Sep 17th instead of Sep 22nd). I think Toyota Corporate owes it to their customers to prevent dealerships from misrepresenting the process, ignoring the customers' legal rights under their leases, lying and gouging the lessee during the buy out process. $699 for an hours worth of paperwork is plenty. Marking up a buy out that was rightfully mine is unconscionable. A contract lawyer would have a field day. This has to be happening all the time with Corporate washing their hands and claiming they can't control them. Just like Post #? who lost his/her Ford truck through a dealer run around. One would think you know what to expect walking in the dealership to exercise your option rights stated in your lease!
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Honda finance sold me my S2000 directly. If I has used a Honda dealer they wanted to charge me the normal doc fee ($300 and up) and perhaps some other charges. I did have to go title it myself and pay the taxes, but well worth the savings.

    Perhaps the original selling dealer (out of state) may have done it for less, but that is an 8 hour round trip.

    I had heard that Honda discounted the price to the dealer by $500 to let them do it for "free" but every dealer I asked denied any such discount.

    Some lease contracts have a fee they charge if you turn the car in, some charge you if you buy it as well.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    If you "turned it in" then it belongs to the lease bank (as it always has) and at that point and they can do with it what they want to. They will send you a bill for any excess miles and any damage over what is allowed in your lease contract. That is just how it is.

    After the inspection was done you should have known how much you were going to owe for damage and miles, you should have made your choice to buy it out for the residual price written in the contract (plus possibly some fees).

    Sounds like the dealership did not treat you fairly, but nothing they did sounds legally wrong - you turned it in and they sent it to the auction or bought it from the lease bank and resold it.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 801
    At least you got your $1,000 back, that's a good thing! It sucks that you had such a hassle, but it could have been even worse.

    Take a look at your loan agreement to see if there is any sort of penalty or fee for early pay-off. If not, start shopping around for another loan at a lower rate. Most major banks and finance companies offer auto "refi" loans at decent rates. If you have access to a credit union (or can join one), explore that option for a loan as well.

    Good luck!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • walli1walli1 Posts: 2
    The listed end of lease buy-out is often quite a reasonable number, so if possible, it is never a bad idea to do that and then re-sell. I'm currently looking for anyone what has a 3 year lease on a Murano in Calgary, AB, so I can offer 5% more than the end-of-lease buy out to the person and take the vehicle.
  • Hi

    Nearly 3 years ago I leased a brand new 2009 Audi A4 convertible. Thinking that I would drive the car more than I actually did, I opted for 15K miles per year. I am now 5 months away from the end of the lease and I only have 20K on the odometer. The car is in excellent condition, has never been in an accident and has been garaged kept and only driven on weekends.

    The residual price is approximately $24K and looking online I should be able to sell the car for $28K-$29K without much hassle. Should I do it? Are there any other costs that I should consider that will eat into my profit (i.e. taxes, fees, etc)? Am I better off trying to turn the lease in early and negotiating with the dealer since the car is clearly undervalued for the mileage? Also, is the residual price negotiable?

    Thanks in advance for your advice.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    The biggest issue is that you'll probably have to title it in your name first and then resell it. That will probably involve paying sales taxes on it.

    Further, unless you are in a warm locale selling a convertible when winter is around the corner might prove difficult.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    You don't state your location here or in your profile, but in most places sales tax would be due if you buy the car yourself. Here in high tax land it would be 7% of the $24k buyout price or $1,680 for a total of $25,680. Some states allow you to get a tax refund if you resell the car in xx days, others do not charge for private sales (from you to the new buyer) and every place has different tax rates. You can avoid the tax by selling the car to or through a dealer.

    Carmax shows 2 09 A4 drop tops right now, one in b'ham has 19k and is $28,147 the other in GA has 10k and is $31,998, Both are 2.0T automatics.

    If yours is similar to the one in b'ham then I would say $27k or less. You would still net a profit, but after taxes not as much as you would like. More for a quattro model (depends on the location) and more for a 3.2 model.

    I would take the car to Carmax now (if you have one around) and see what they will offer for it and compare to the current buy out price. No need to wait for the lease to end (and colder weather) unless you want to drive it the last months yourself. By avoiding the last 4 or 5 payments of $xxx you save and they may offer you $25k for it now (2.0t). If you don't like the offer, keep the car and try again at lease end. Also try the autotrader dealer buying thing online or see if the used car manager at various Audi dealerships has any interest.
  • Thanks so Dwynne..very helpful

    I live in NJ and the car is in fact a Quattro Sport model with basically every option but nav.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,330
    Oh, you shouldn't have said you live in NJ...... That car sounds sweet.

    It's always my theory that you should buy a car at the end of someone else's lease.....
    2013 Mazda 5 Grand Touring, 2010 Toyota Prius IV. 2007 Toyota Camry XLE, 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999 Mazda Miata
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    AFAIK NJj requires sales tax to be paid to transfer the title, so you would have to pay then your buyer would have to pay. NJ DOES collect the lease sales tax up front, so if you end the lease early you would be due a tax refund. You paid ((tax rate * base payment) * 36 payments) up front - either rolled into the lease or out of pocket. If you end 5 months early you should get credit for ((tax rate * base payment) * 5). May not be much, but worth considering.

    Even though you have a Quattro, probably better to sell the drop top before the really cold weather hits or hang onto it until it warms back up.

    Don't forget tags and personal property tax if they apply in NJ. Owning the car to resell it may mean you have to tag or pay property tax on it.
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