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Future Crown Vic and Grand Marquis



  • If you do an inventory search of dealers around here, you'll see a lack of inventory for Grand Marquis. Most have none. Maybe dealer already knew that so didn't even bother looking.

    Another thing I'm wondering about is why the Lincoln Town Car is almost double the price of the Grand Marquis. Aren't they basically the same car? Is the Town Car that much more luxurious to justify the difference?

    I also find it odd that as the $5,500 rebate deadline of 1/2/2008 passed, they just advanced the expiration date to 1/8/2008. Strange to just add 6 days, isn't it? I know for awhile last year they had a $7,000 rebate on the Grand Marquis. I'm hoping they increase the rebate before my car is ready so that I'll get a bigger rebate.
  • I was wondering about the 6-CD Audiophile option, which I am getting. The model I testdrove did not have that option, so I never got to hear one and am hoping it is real good, as sound quality is important to me. Most cars appear to have a brandname stereo, but the Mercury Grand Marquis doesn't and there is no brand marking on the unit. Because of this I have been unable to find any reviews of the unit and I have spent a lot of time looking.

    Do you know who manufactures it and also who manufactures the speakers and no of any reviews of them?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Another thing I'm wondering about is why the Lincoln Town Car is almost double the price of the Grand Marquis. Aren't they basically the same car? Is the Town Car that much more luxurious to justify the difference?

    IIRC the GM/CV have a solid rear axle and the Lincoln has independent rear.

  • I don't know about up in your area, but down here in my area for example, there are about 60 Grand Marquis' on dealers lots right now, and 5 of them are Norsea Blue. Most fairly well equipped. It only takes a few minutes to do an inventory search, so I don't understand why a guy wouldn't at least look to see what was out there; but who knows, maybe he did, and there wasn't anything close to your specifications.

    The Town Car is NOT double the price of the Grand Marquis. A loaded '08 Grand Marquis can sticker out at almost $32,000, while it's impossible to get an '08 Town Car to sticker for even $50,000. So it's priced more like 50% more. Even back on the '07 model Town Car, you'd have been hard pressed to get that car to price out at $53,000, and even that's on a car with Navigation System and THX Sound System. The Town Car is engineered to be significantly more luxurious than the Grand Marquis, much less NVH (Noise, Vibration & Harshness), and significantly more available toys (i.e.: Pwr. Open/Close Trunk, HID Headlamps, Climate Controlled Seats, Memory Seats, Dual-Zone Climate Control, 17" Wheels, etc.), and more. But value is in the eye of the buyer; there are some who feel the image boost of the Town Car alone is worth the extra money.

    Often Christmas/New Year incentive programs are extended a few extra day, because the bean counters need to assess the market conditions and the size of their marketing purse. Most often the extension is not more than 2 or 3 days. In this case, I guess they felt they needed more research time. Production capability has been reduced, especially since the Town Car allocation will be eating up some of the plant's capacity, so I doubt that you'll see the $7,000 rebate level again, if any time soon. But as I informed you before, generally Ford will honor whatever the incentives were at the time of your order, or at the time of your vehicle delivery, but not any of those in between. Talk to your salesman about that. But don't worry about it, whatever it is, it is. Just take what's there and enjoy your new car. Don't worry about what could have been.

    I believe the Audiophile Sound System is made by Ford itself, but I'm not sure. Ford actually has a very robust sound systems production capability. Audiophile was originally created by Alpine, which is a high end European producer of audio sound systems. Unfortunately, the audience for cars like the Grand Marquis, don't tend to be as brand conscious as the yuppier crowd. The Town Car is construed to be in the luxury segment, and branded sound systems are just part-and-parcel of those segments. Hopefully now you have enough extra ammunition to keep you busy researching.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Ah ha NVH, more sound proofing material. Forgot that.

  • Thanks for all the information. Regarding inventory, I myself recently looked on the Mercury website and looked at inventory of about 10 dealers in this part of the state: my dealer had 1 (the one I testdrove) and none of the oher 9 had a single LS and only 1 other dealer had 2 GS's. I checked this about a week ago so it's probably still the same.
  • What part of Washington are you in? Must be western Washington, near Spokane and Coeur D'Alene, ID area. If so, the dealers out in that area that carry Mercury are usually smaller and are combo stores (Ford/Mercury or Ford L/M). Otherwise one would think that in the greater SeaTac region (from Bellingham, WA down to Salem, OR, and from Aberdeen, WA over to Walla Walla, WA), there would be more of a selection available. There are multiple times more than 10 Mercury points in that region, and the dealer can run a regional locate as quickly as a cross town locate. For a customer who's anxious to have his car sooner, I would. If the exact car exists, maybe the customer would be willing to pay $100-$150 more in transport charges, to have the Seattle dealer trade to get the car from the Portland dealer. Then he could have the car within a day or two, rather than in 3 or 4 months. Also the dealer can have the sale today, rather than months from now; and take the chance that the customer becomes disillusioned and changes his mind on the whole purchase. Maybe it would be worth the dealer splitting the transportation charges, as a smaller bird in the hand may be worth more than a larger bird in the bush. Besides, customers shouldn't have to search out surrounding inventory, not when dealers have the tools to search more efficiently. But, that's how I think; maybe my thinking is warped. I'm just an old factory trained guy who thinks that customers still appreciate service.
  • I looked at the inventory of all the dealers Mercury's website included for my Seattle zip code, which showed dealers near the coast and Canada too. Is a rare car in these parts. My dealer didn't even have a model for me to see when I went there. I had to wait a few weeks them to have one and they said it took them a few months to get it.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I bet they have a ton in FLA :)

  • As predicted, at exactly 9:00 Pm my time (midnight Michigan time), they changed the special offer deal, as they had to, as the date passed. Interestingly,they significantly decreased the interest rate for the Grand Marquis, but they did not change the dollar amount of $5,500 ;-(. Wonder why they did not increase the dollar option with it. Also strange that for the Sable, the interest rsate is a lot higher. And now the date's been changed to 3/31/2008. I still figured out that even though the interest rate is much lower, I'm still better off to take the cash reduction instead, even for 60 months.

    If what he says is true, everyone better buy a Grand Marquis like me while you still can!!!!

    Don't know what he's talking about though regarding questionairre and only 4 vehicles. He's wrong on both counts.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    and the recently enacted 35 mpg by 2020 law are what will finally sink the CV/GM/TC. I'd be really surprised if production continues beyond the '09 model year. By then, there will be enough late model, low mileage used ones on the road to satisfy the ever diminishing demand. For proof, look at resale values for the '03-'07 models. Not very good, and proof that demand is declining.

    Think about it; expensive gasoline will make these cars, rugged as they are, uneconomical for law enforcement and taxi service. For limo-type service the Taurus/Sable/(new for '09) Lincoln MKS will be better overall choices in the expensive gas era.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,425
    expensive gas era. ??

    That gas is expensive is no more true than it was 40 years ago when it was .35 a gallon.
    If your income has not risen at least 10 times in the last 40 years, it is not the price of gas that is the problem.

    Everything else has gone up. Why should gas be exempt from price increases? ;)
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Well, you make a good point there, but from what I've read, oil at $103/barrel just surpassed the old record established in '81, in inflation adjusted terms. I suppose much depends on how you want to look at it, but I think record high - and rising - gas prices will prove to be a strong headwind for the old body-on-frame big Fords.

    I don't presume to know where gas prices will top out, or whether they'll stay high, but it's a virtual given that demand from China, India, and other emerging countries will continue to support relatively high prices.
  • peetiedogpeetiedog Posts: 37
    You're right, the CV/GM/TC trio probably won't continue beyond the '09 model year, and definitely not past the '10 model, but it's not due to the gas mileage. It's due to another short-sighted decision from the ivory tower's executive round table. I'd be one of the first to admit that the Panther Trio in it's current configuration, is too long in the tooth to be a viable long term product offering. I just happen to believe that a nice facelift, a mild interior re-do, and a few up-dated gizmos would allow the old girls to soldier on for another 3-5 years (providing a sizeable up-tic in sales), until a new (worthy) rwd replacement could be brought to market. There hasn't been a significant face-lift in a decade, so they were long overdo, yet kept selling pretty well given the lack of attention afforded them, if you ask me. But alas, the time has come to bid adieu. Ford decided to move away from rwd platforms, in favor of fwd & awd. At the same time, GM and Chrysler developed a newfound affection for rwd, especially for their higher end cars, as did Lexus and Infiniti. And we all know what BMW, Jag and Benz feels about rwd; even Audi is moving to a rear-bias to their Quattro AWD system (especially for their high performance cars) to more simulate rwd predominant balance. And now, even Ford has recognized that it needs to re-develop more rwd offerings (duh!), and have started looking at their new Australian rwd platform for a possible North American adaptation. My question is: Ford, why give up your rear-wheel drive market to your competitors (even if for only a couple years), only to have to come back later and spend lots of money trying to win it back? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Sounds like another of those famous Ford blunders in the making to me.

    Oh, and by the way hpmctorque, have you looked at the fuel economy ratings on the Taurus/Sable and even the Fusion/Milan/MKZ (no #'s on the MKS yet) compared to the CV/GM/TC? There's only between 2-4 mpg difference. And while that can represent a 10-15% improvement, many people would gladly trade that small of a difference for the other benefits the old Panther-girls offer. Things such as balance, durability, ride quality, stability, handling, safety, lower NVH, lower maintenance (especially front-end work), etcetera. When I take my Town Car on a road trip, let's say an 800+ mile round trip from Napa, CA to Los Angeles or Las Vegas. I average upwards of 21-22 mpg for the trip (and I average about 75+ mph trip speeds). Once I rented a Ford Fusion V6 for a trip to Las Vegas, thinking I'd save a lot of gas money. I only averaged 24 mpg for the trip, the ride quality while nice for a small car, was not even close to my Town Car. A lot buzzier, plus I felt a lot more exhausted and wound-up when I got there and when I got back home. The extra $13.00 I saved on the round trip (about 4 fewer gallons of gas @ $3.19 per gal), wasn't worth the lack of comfort, frustration and stress that came with the smaller, buzzier confines. What some people don't take into consideration is that those smaller, higher revving engines have to work a little harder than the loping, long legged, large car V8 engines when it comes to hill climbing and passing. And I don't believe they come anywhere close to the big, slower turning V8's when it comes to longevity either. I'm convinced that my Town Car's life expectancy is easily 250,000 or even 350,000 miles or more. I'd just like an updated version as would a lot of other people I know and talk to. And as far as gas goes, most of the big, comfy car buffs, like me, don't mind spending $200 - $250 a year in feeding costs for the benefits of a traditional, full sized rwd luxury car. Also I'm of the mind that there's no substitute for extra steel around you if in a major accident (say Town Car vs Accord in a head-on).

    As for as law enforcement is concerned, there is no substitute for rugged, well balanced, reliable, durable and economical (maintenance & repair wise). Suspensions, steering racks, transaxles (transmissions), tire wear, cooling systems, and more on the Taurus for example, would cost law enforcement agencies far more than the additional fuel charges of the Crown Vic cruisers. California Highway Patrol (and other state's trooper agencies), along with large municipal law enforcement agencies (like L.A.P.D. and L.A. County S.O.) have intensive endurance testing programs for their police cruisers. And year after year, the old fuddy-duddy Ford Crown Vic just keeps on coming out on top, in spite of it's age and weaknesses. Besides, when you're responding to an officer in distress' call for back-up, or when in pursuit of a fleeing felony suspect (jumping over curbs & bottoming out on road dips), I don't think anyone is too concerned about another couple miles-per-gallon. Besides they're the government, they just pass the costs on to us. Taxi services are just as concerned or more about durability, longevity and maintenance costs, which once again tend to favor the good ole Crown Vic. And as far as limo & livery services are concerned, how many front wheel drive stretched limo's have you seen lately, even Cadillac DeVilles (DHS); they're almost as rare as stretched Hummers. Even the livery trade doesn't want fwd cars. They cost too much for maintenance & wear, reliability & durability is far worse, and comfort & ride quality is nowhere near as good. Next time you see a few limo drivers take your own unscientific poll, you'd be hard pressed to find 10% of the owners & operators who'll disagree with that. These people are business people, they don't buy Town Cars because they're all Lincoln enthusiasts; they buy them because they are the best product & value on the market for what they need. My question is: Why, why, why Ford, would you give up this market that has become your birthright, only to have to try and fight to get a piece of it back later? I just don't get it. The MKS, as nice as it is, will not really replace the Town Car with the limo & Livery market, sure you'll see a few stretched MKS' and executive livery cars (sort of a fashion statement, like a stretched Navigator). I think the Chrysler 300 will probably get the lion's share of that market, and Cadillac is working on a full size rwd vehicle that I'm sure will eventually take a piece of that market as well. When Ford does finally bring a viable rwd car to market 4 or 5 years from now, they'll have to fight to get back into that market, which will be expensive; and do you really expect Chrysler and GM to just hand their market share back to Ford, or do think they'll fight like the dickens to keep it?
  • peetiedogpeetiedog Posts: 37
    The biggest reason oil is so high, is that among other things, it's priced in U.S. dollars. Have you noticed the beating the U.S. dollar has taken lately? It takes more U.S. dollars to buy just about any foreign commodity, or to take a vacation abroad, or just about anything else. It makes coming to America, or better yet buying up America very cheap for foreigners. If our currency were to strengthen by say 20% over the next year, oil prices would drop back to about $85/barrel or so. And then there's also world unrest in oil producing regions, there's heavy speculation, fear based hoarding, emerging markets competing for resources (India & China), and then there's manipulation by OPEC and the oil conglomerates. No doubt it's demand driven as well, and we need to become better stewards of our resources and the our children's futures.

    Unfortunately, I believe we're being treated like drug addicts. The drugs are oil based products (gasoline, diesel, heating oil, etc.), the consuming public are the addicts, the oil companies are the pushers, and the oil producing nations are the growers & suppliers. The unfortunate part is that the government is in partnership with the suppliers and pushers, and their take is the taxes on the oil and gas. We need to change our habits, yes; but we need to take our nation back. Many of the billions our government is spending on the war in Iraq could be better spent on shoring up our infrastructure here at home, investing in the education of our youth, and subsidizing and partnering with U.S. auto makers, universities and research industries, in developing alternative technologies and sources of energy that would lead to our becoming energy independent. Now that I consider is in our national security interests. Unless the grand plan is to annex Iraq as our 51st state. Then that would solve our energy independence for a long time into the future, and P. M. Nuri Al-Maliki can become governor and the Iraqi people would be U.S. citizens; at least then we'd have a lucid reason for needing to clean up the mess we've got over there.

    But as my friend euphonium was saying, it's not just the price of gas that's the problem, it's also the price of everything else (a lot of it tied to the price of gas) and the fact that incomes have not kept pace with inflation. Here in California, back in 1971. I was a young man with a young wife and new-born baby. Gas averaged about 35 cents p/gal (under 25 cents during gas wars), minimum wage was $1.65 p/hr. (fortunately as a young management trainee I was making a whopping $675 per/month), my rent on a small 2 bedroom apartment was $125 p/mo, and a good sized Baby Ruth candy bar was 10 cents. Today, gas is $3.50 per gallon (10x incr.), min. wage is $8.00 p/hr. in California (less than 5x incr.), a friend owns the building that my old apartment is in and he rents that same apartment for $1850 p/mo. (almost 15x incr.), and I saw a similar sized Baby Ruth candy bar in a convenience store the other day for $1.40 (14x incr., they call it a jumbo size now). Gas at 10x the 1971 price seems very high to most people (myself included), but as euphonium was saying, it's not as bad as with many other things or as bad as it could be. Hey 14x or 15x increase on gas would put us easily at $4.90 - $5.25 p/gal. (inflation adjusted of course). Just be glad it gas is a better bargain than Baby Ruth candy bars. And let's not consider the inflation rate of higher education, taxes, or health care. Then gas would really look like a bargain. Fortunately my income increased by about 25x 1971 rate, but it sure don't feel like I'm 25x better off, in fact I know I'm not. :cry: I wish it were 1971 again, things were so much simpler then. :sick:
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,425
    $675 X 25 = $16,875 a month for income. That is great in my book. I like to see others do well. Congratulations on your success. ;)
  • peetiedogpeetiedog Posts: 37
    Maybe I should've said almost 25x, but it doesn't feel like 25x. Keep in mind, I live in California, you have to make twice as much to live half as well. Yea, I guess I'm still doing pretty well, all things considered; but my partners (the state & federal governments) are taking a much bigger slice of the pie than they used to. My taxes will choke a horse to death. :cry: :mad: :sick:
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    difference in the dollar, there si still a part of me that believes the if (when) the US economy takes a cyclical downturn, we will be buying fewer things from China...when we buy fewer things they will be making fewer things and there won't be as many employed Chinese to buy that expensive gasoline...without the demand from Chindia (China and India, not my phrasing, but quite accurate) gas prices will fall, IMO, simply because Arabs can't eat it...or, put another way, if the US sneezes, China will get the flu...

    Any thoughts on this master theory of mine???
  • peetiedogpeetiedog Posts: 37
    Great theory, in theory; but in practice, the theory won't work, at least as far as Chindia (catchy, I like it) goes. The biggest problem is that most things that are made in China and India, are not made here; and if they are, the prices are much higher. And most Americans will almost always choose the cheaper product, rather than vote with their wallets for their own American industries & American workers. Most domestic manufacturing sectors have long since been decimated by foreign countries, like Japan, Taiwan, N. Korea and the Philippines. Now here comes China, India, Vietnam and Mexico to finish the job of making the United States totally a consuming market, with virtually no production ability of our own. When we decide to demand American made products, demand that our government require a level playing field or else we'll subsidize our own industries; yes require quality from those producers, but be willing to pay a little bit more to buy home grown; THEN we will be able to start turning this ship around. We've got to stop out-sourcing everything off-shore. If we don't, their won't be many people left here in the U.S. with the ability to buy their stuff anyway, because our people will not have jobs. And guess who those people are? Our children and grand-children! Soon we'll be like most 3rd world countries, a 2 class system: the rich 'Fat-Cats' and the poor 'Down-Trodden'. There won't be any middle-class here anymore, the new middle-class will be in the emerging markets like China and India.

    As far as lowering gas prices, we need to work on our consumption habits and becoming energy independent, or like I said before, annex Iraq and make them the 51st state. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the Free-Market System, but our energy dependence on foreign oil is fast becoming this country's #1national security issue. That and fresh potable water will become the cause of wars that our children will fight in the future. So get ready. We need to demand that our political leaders take some of the billions and billions of dollars being spent on the Iraq war and on propping up other countries, and spend it here at home subsidizing education, clean air & water, new technologies, and alternative sources of energy. Then, we might stand a chance of competing against Chindia. Just one man's observation. But enough said on that, what can we do to get Ford Motor Co. to bring new world-class rwd replacements for the CV/GM/TC to market, and to give the current Panther trio a significant facelift/re-engineering job, so they can soldier on another 4 or 5 years until the new replacements are ready?

    Oh, and that old addage "When America sneezes, the whole world catches a cold", well that'll soon be gone if we don't watch out. Soon it'll be "When America sneezes, it just means she's catching a cold"! The handwriting is on the wall, and we'd better heed it's warnings. It's sorta like the famous question that Ebenezer Scrooge asked the Spirit of Christmas Future, "Are these visions of things that must be, or of things that might be?". Hopefully we aren't going the way of many of the dominant empires of old, like the Egyptian, Greek and Roman empires. WE'VE BEEN WARNED!
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    While I am not an automotive engineer, somehow I cannot believe they cannot update and tweak the current Crown Vic platform/chassis with a 275-300 HP V6 or V8 engine that gets decent gas mileage ( most of the newer cars do not break 30 mpg, so it is not like their engineering is space-age) and update the interior for minimal expense into, say, the early 2000s (not yet 2008) and a little new sheetmetal on the outside...if they can badge engineer at GM, Ford can take a safe and paid-for platform, add some updates at truly minimal expense, advertise a family sedan with safety and decent mpg, and an interior that would attract somebody other than a 60-plus adult...if younger folks can like a CTS/DTS/STS, why can't Ford change some interior design and sheetmetal to not look like your grandfather's Model T and keep the car???

    Once again, Ford's strategy never seems to make much sense to me...
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,425
    I have the memory of the American Labor Movement constantly entitling themselves to more wages and benefits while performing mediocre levels of craftsmanship while their overseas counterparts were supplying us with superior quality products. This chipping away has successfully priced the ALM out of work. To meet the demands of the stockholder, management has cut costs of production by moving manufacturing overseas.

    How ready is the American Labor Movement willing to give up their massive benefits, unrealistic wages, for service performed, & submit to returning to where they were in the 1950's?

    How ready is the American Labor Movement willing to provide higher quality of craftsmanship in exchange for a job that has to pay less in wages and benefits?

    The Middle Class is not willing to recognize what it has done to itself as it still has too much arrogance and pride blinding their vision.
  • Yes, better gas mileage in the Grand Marquis would be nice, but I have no complaint about the horsepower. Lots of so called experts make a big deal that for a V8 engine it does not have much horsepower. Well, I have no problem getting up to speed so it has enough horsepower. I am not an old man and like the interior. I wish the dashboard was all digital though, like older models were. Guess they went back to analog, because they thought people wanted that? I end up always looking at the digital speed display instead of the dial.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    I absolutely HATED the digital dashboards for the speedometer...for the clock, it is OK, but for speed I just like the round analog dials...
  • Not me. Wish it was all digital.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,425
    My 94 Town Car Signature is Digital & I like it over the wife's 95 T Bird analog. It matches the analog tachometer next to it.

    I would trade one of the two digital trip odometers for a digital tach on the TC.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    may digital rest in peace in the scrapheap of automotive history...:):):):):)
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Posts: 265
    I will vote for all analog. For that matter, I am happy with interior and exterior as is. In fact, I hope Ford never changes the exterior of the Merc GM. Continuity would be nice for a change. Instead of making cosmetic changes, make a huge one and offer a plug-in hybrid (PIH) version. Yeah, I know, not yet, but one day.

    Oh, oh, and please offer a wagon. I can't stand SUVs.
  • I think the Grand Marquis is one of the nicest looking cars out there right now. Would someone please tell me what is so great about SUV's, Honda Accords, Toyota Camry's, etc.? I think the large American sedans of the 1970's and 1980's had a lot more style than most cars made now, and the Grand Marquis is the standard bearer now. I'm not an old stick-in-the-mud, as I love futuristic concept cars too, but the cars mentioned bear no resemblance to those.
  • Had 2000 CV Lx, gave it up. Just got 2004 CV Lx Sport with 29,000. It is so similiar to the Maruader...minus the horsepower, I am a proud owner. Is there any good/bad info about this year and model?
This discussion has been closed.