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Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si



  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032

    Energy-wasting AWD combines w/ lack of steering feel. At least it's got good ride comfort:

    The new Euro-built Saturn -- lack of multi-link rear suspension means a comfy ride is not even remotely possible if the handling has to remain decent, steering-feel sucks, too:

    With the Focus-II platform, the Mazda has the highest "driving experience" rating here, but its ride is not tuned comfortably the way Focus' are:
  • I don't put any stock in magazine reviews. They say the Si has a good interior - it doesn't to my eyes. I'll visit a Scooby dealer soon to take a peak at the WRX. If it's up to par with my old 2003 Protege ES, then it's more than adequate to be a daily car.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    still has the best-looking interior, at least from the brochure :D
  • Perhaps. But in reality it's economy-car garbage - especially that felt like stuff on the doors.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    it's economy-car garbage

    man blueguy, sometimes i've wondered if you have ever peeped inside of any other car that the civic competes with.

    Most would agree it has a high quality interior. You may not 'personally' like it, but to call it garbage is a bit harsh, and totally contradictory to the long history of quality interiors that the civic has had.
  • The interior is not at the level of past Civics. The civics of the 80s and 90s had better quality interiors by far. And yes, I've been subjected to cars like the Nitro and Cobalt. They're trash too. Saying the current Civic has a nice interior because the others are awful is like gloating one is top of his class at remedial summer school.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The interior is not at the level of past Civics.

    Oh, definitely not. I wish we could go back from electronic controls for the ventilation, etc.. to the levers which often get very stiff to adjust (as in my grandparents' 1997 Civic LX) where you could see the metal pieces attached to the mechanical parts back in the control unit of the A/C controls, don't you? Or maybe we can use the much smaller, more thinly padded although-not-comfortably-firm seats from those cars too! ;) :D

    I personally haven't found a fit/finish/tactile quality problem in the new Civic. Just a differing opinion. :)
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    I hate newer car's electronic controls for the ventilation. The '90-93 Accord had separate clicking buttons for "fresh air" & "recirculate" so I can feel them by hand & never had to keep my eyes off the road for one nano second.

    But my '00 Civc hatch has one soft touch (i.e., doesn't click), for A/C or recirculate, that had to be visually checked for on & off, & can't even be read under direct sun light, especially the indicator lights got dimmer as the car aged! Ditto my Focus ST, & even worse, the number of buttons found on (the premium Focus-II) Volvo S40/V50's fancy-looking "TV remote-like" super-thin center stack.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I hate newer car's electronic controls for the ventilation. The '90-93 Accord had separate clicking buttons for "fresh air" & "recirculate" so I can feel them by hand & never had to keep my eyes of the road for one nano second.

    I was actually talking about the Civic of the 80s and early 90s (which is what the previous person had referenced) which had levers. You gotta check those visually too.

    BTW, I have a 1996 Accord which has similar controls to the 90-93 models. The mechanical knob in that car binds easily and breaks the knob (I'm on number 4). I prefer the electronic knobs better.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Before I bought my 1st-year-production '90 Protege LX, Mazda was well known for "easily-worned-down interior trims". But I took the gamble & found the whole car lasting longer than even the made-in-Japan Toyota's.

    I click the "AC" button million times a day (off for accelerating & uphills, on for engine-braking & down hills). & that big button may be worned out on the outside marking, it's still working perfectly today at about 200k mi. My recirculate lever, which has also been flipped back & forth many times a day, never turned stiff.

    I wonder if your '96 Accord is not made in Japan. My '98 made-in-California Corolla LE had a low-quality-plastic vent outlet that cracked, so I had to hurried back into this country before the warranty expired. Guess what? I didn't make it in time b/c my plane crashed due to a hurricane/typhoon :sick:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    wonder if your '96 Accord is not made in Japan. My '98 made-in-California Corolla LE had a low-quality-plastic vent outlet that cracked, so I had to hurried back into this country before the warranty expired.

    Japanese cars from the 80's and 90's had pretty low rent plastic controls, regardless if they were made in Japan or not. That was a big knock on them. My HVAC controls broke on my '91 Toyota Celica, '91 Honda Accord, and '98 Mitsu Eclipse.

    The Corolla's from that time period too were not much on the inside, or out. Actually, neither was anything in that class that came from Japan.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    the remedial summer school bit made me laugh! :)

    but in all honesty blueguy, i do think you are being a bit harsh. does it have something to do with being a bmw/mini owner? maybe. even i got nitpicky with our fit after moving down from the rabbit.

    its funny to note that even the 3 series has those same scratch prone doors like the new civic.

    But all in all, the civic has a very nice interior, and i'm with grad on the electronic knobs point. Much nicer by far!
  • That's what it comes down to. Shrug.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "According to Brit magazines, the better Civic Europeans dream of is the multi-link-rear sport sedan privately imported from Japan!"

    "which ones? all the recent ones i have read are NOT talking about the jdm type r (the sedan you mentioned) but about the torsion-beamed hatch that is exclusive to them. (europe.)

    i think the type r from japan would fare horrible in europe, its suspension is tuned way to much for track use to be a daily driver for most."

    This one: :P
    "We were bitterly disappointed to discover that the new (Euro) Civic Type-R isn’t as polished as the Golf GTI..."

    "The saloon bodyshell has been made lighter yet more rigid, with extensive use of aluminium, and adhesive bonding instead of welds. As a result the much bigger ’shell tips the scales just 1.8kg heavier than the Integra’s, yet is 50 per cent more rigid.

    Once on the move this sense of rigidity is all- pervading. There’s no sneeze-factor in the steering, no slouch in the suspension or slop in the brake pedal, and certainly no squidge in the Bridgestone RE070s’ sidewalls. Consequently your slightest twitch is translated into immediate response. It’s an uncompromising car with a firm, physical ride, yet the damping is well controlled and it copes well with mid-corner bumps.

    Traction is excellent thanks to the standard helical limited-slip differential, and there’s only the slightest hint of wheelspin on a dry road, even over the sharp-edged crests along our test route in south Wales."

    "...includes all import costs...That’s around £5000 more than the UK Civic Type-R, but such is the gulf between the watered-down experience offered by the hatchback and the full-strength fury of the saloon there’s little sense in making a direct comparison. Perhaps you’d be better looking upon this import-only Civic as a four-door NSX-R, for it possesses much of the supercar’s spirit."

    "...superior in almost every other way"

    "A limited-slip differential, absent from the European Type R, sends more torque to the outer wheel in a corner..."

    "Another welcome revision is the use of double-wishbone rear suspension, improving ride quality and handling. This is in addition to a 50 per cent boost in body rigidity. As a result, the four-door Type R is a joy to drive. Its ride is firm but comfortable, and turn-in is exquisite, with heaps of grip and the nose never pushing wide."

    "the £11,900 price tag undercuts the inferior UK model by a massive £5,715."
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Anyone see that the 2008 Mugen Si will start at over $29,000!! LMAO! Who's gonna pay for that?!?!?
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Those Acura TSX drivers who ran out of ways to trim down its heavier-than-Accord curb weight :D
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    A 200hp Civic with a body kit, and slightly upgraded suspension that says "Mugen" on it for $29,000? Please. Your better off buying an S2000 leftover with rebates and dealer discount.
  • The latest edition of Consumer Reports lists 2 VW's. The Passat (V6) no longer recommended because of worse reliability. The VW GTI - enough data to say they're unreliable. VW Strikes again. And these are made in Germany. :lemon:
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032


    "But the suspension isn’t that supple. The BMW gets pitched around on any surface that’s less than perfect, so the steering requires constant correction, which limits your confidence in the car. It doesn’t truly come alive – instead, it feels slightly numb and disinterested."

    "...not as involving as the TT, with constant movement from the suspension and steering which is lacking in feedback."

    VW - ml

    "Plus, the Golf is light to drive, easy to see out of and well laid out inside, all of which helps to make it effortless to live with.

    So can it really be as exciting to drive? In a word, yes. The suspension is every bit as well set up as the Audi’s, delivering a near-perfect blend of ride comfort and handling ability. The steering wheel isn’t only great to hold, but provides more detailed feedback than the BMW’s. And although the front-drive layout means the Golf doesn’t put its power down as well as its rivals, it’s superbly balanced, responsive and entertaining."

    "...better body control than BMW"


    "The trouble is, there is no turbo to beef up mid-range torque, so its in-gear times weren’t as good as the Golf’s...What lets it down is the transmission, which doesn’t like low speeds. It’s jerky, then surges forward suddenly as the clutch bites. The system isn’t as mechanically involving as a manual box, either. Yet once up and running, the S tronic is magnificent – as a passenger, the only way to detect shifts is to watch the driver’s fingers pull the paddles or listen to the powerplant."

    Then down shift then, if you want more burst & still retain smoothness.

    "It’s sharp and inspires confidence. The steering is better than the BMW’s, and helped by the fact it’s lower to the ground. The Audi feels more planted and secure on the road. It turns in hard, grips well and is more informative than the 135i and Golf. We’d specify the £1,150 optional Magnetic Dampers, though. They work brilliantly, not only making the TT even more dynamic to drive, but boosting absorbency in the softer setting. Without them, the ride is not as relaxing as it could be."
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    vs Rogue's twin (Quashqai) vs Peugeot's own 308

    The C-1 Focus matched the Civic for best handling but provides better ride! & it's the only one in this group not being criticized for lack of steering feel!

    C-1 Focus:
    "Out on the road, the Ford feels the most relaxing to drive, thanks to the engine’s fuss-free nature – it just seems to get on with the job of transporting you from A to B as easily as possible. Yet there’s much more to the car than this. The model has always been renowned for its driving dynamics, and the new version is no exception.

    This all-round ability is what makes the Focus such a great family choice. The blend of ride and handling is a prime example. It’s not quite as firm as the Honda and deals better with potholes, but it’s just as focused and balanced through corners. Perfectly weighted steering and a crisp gearshift add to the package."

    Civic hatch:
    "In terms of handling, there’s little to choose between the Honda and Ford. Both are incredibly composed and enjoyable, whether eating up motorway miles or tackling country lanes."

    -: some drivers find the speedometer is obscured by the wheel; steering is a little short on feedback."

    "There are few criticisms of the car’s handling. The steering lacks feel, yet it’s fluid and direct, allowing for precise turn-in. Body control is taut – impressively so, given the Nissan’s tall ride height. As a result, the Qashqai is agile and reassuring."

    "As with its opponents, the 308 provides a decent balance of ride and handling. But it doesn’t quite grip as well as the Focus or Civic, and although the steering is meaty, it lacks feedback. The Peugeot is composed through corners, yet the dampers can be a little jittery over rough surfaces, and it’s not as engaging to drive as its rivals. It is smooth and refined – a reading of 69dB at 70mph is much quieter than the Focus’s 72dB – but the 308 doesn’t have much character or charm."

    At similar price, Civic's more equipment, room & mpg edges the C-1 Focus as the winner in this ECONOMY car test here. I'm sure all the cheapskates will agree. :P - - ml
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 10,172
    Problem is, Honda doesn't send the Civic three door over here, and I wanted a hatch(the same reason I passed on the 1 Series). The Civic Type R would have been on my short list- no question:


    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2016 i3 REX/2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    This Europe-only Civic hatch is indeed handsome & cool looking! Just like the original Scirocco/Corrado. But like those old VW's, it's tiny & only got torsion-beam rear suspension.

    While today's Scirocco is heading into the direction of Civic by having multilink rear suspension & (try to?) look like the '92-95 Civic hatch, which even has multilink in the front as well!
    click the 4th picture

    But by today's standard around here, the Focus, Mazda3, Rabbit/GTI, Civic, Impreza, & even top-end Corolla all have multilink rear, just like Mini & BMW.

    More likely, this Euro hatch Civic belongs to the little B-class cars w/ torsion-beam rear:

    Ford Verve/Fiesta
    Mazda2 g=2&idi=12
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    w/ more cylinder & 280hp:

    C-1 platform
    "Striking details include flared wheelarches, giving the RS a wider track for better high-speed stability."

    "But the best news is that the new suspension settings and redesigned back axle, plus the chassis’s lower centre of gravity, all help make the Scirocco even better to drive than the Golf GTI. The wider track gives it greater grip and cornering composure, and although there is some body roll, it’s well contained.

    Overall, the Scirocco feels more agile and responsive than the GTI, while retaining that car’s sense of enthusiasm. There’s even the option of different driving modes. The Adaptive Chassis Control set-up allows you to select Comfort, Normal or Sport settings, which adjust not only the stiffness of the dampers, but also the steering weight and"
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Not really the right thread for this comparo??
  • LOL I live in Columbus and I'll race you, 08' speed 3 and yeah you can bring an SI to boot. I dont get what you all are talking about, the VW and SI are both slow as well as the speed, and if you spend enough money we all know that you can make a turd fly but if you really want to fast car try a V-8 that puts down 500+ hp, and have an SI, VW, or MSP3 as a daily car...

    Oh Civics Suck, and look like crap....
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 10,172
    You must be a regular from Mazda247...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2016 i3 REX/2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    You must be a regular from Mazda247...


    Typical childish stuff you commonly see there. Edmunds is not the place for that type of talk.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    Can't look any worse than the new MS3 and the stupid grin Mazda gave it.

    Have you motor mounts broken yet?
  • goosegoose Posts: 77
    Well I have a 2008 Civic EX and driven the 2010 Mazda 3 5 door GT. I know the Si is more "fun" than my Civic however primary difference is engine and tighter suspension. The rest is the same as my Civic such as interior design, materials, noise level and reliability. I have also driven the 2010 Accord Coupe, 2009 Lexus IS 250, Hyundai Genesis Coupe V6, Acura TSX and TL. All within the last 6 months. The 2010 Mazda 3 is a definite upgrade from the Civic. However the Mazdaspeed 3 is the direct competitor against the Si. If you want kid like driving dynamics then the Honda product is fine. If you're looking for an upgrade but still want to stay under $27K and get good MPG then the Mazda 3 is a better vehicle. The whole package is more mature such as interior layout, instrumentation design, stereo option, exterior lighting and improved sound dampening. It has options that the Civic doesn't even offer. No i don't want the local youth training center (stereo shop) modifying my car either. The only issue is getting past that Mazda 3 grin. But I wont buy anther Civic. I'm over it. If its not the grinning car then I'll pay more and get a Accord Coupe or take my chances with a 2010 VW GTI.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Have you motor mounts broken yet?

    Common...a select few early 2007's were effected

    Should I bring up the early transmission problems and quality control issues with the SI? Or is that all of a sudden unfair because it speaks badly about Honda?
This discussion has been closed.