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Audi RS4



  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    When I said "CLs" I meant the CL TWO-door coupe, not the swoopy CLS. It was CL plural- just to let you know.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Ummm... okay, think what you want. You never mentioned that there was one RS model in America- you just stated that there has been one RS model. Period.

    Why would I need to? Don't we live in America?

    Motorsport, by the way, does not produce a lot of cars as you stated- for some reason, I haven't seen an M3 in awhile. Not to say I see AMGs every day- but I definitely am more impressed when I see an RS or S Audi then seeing an AMG Mercedes-Benz.

    Just because you haven't seen an M3 doesn't mean anything esf! I see M3s every day especially in Naperville. Ok so you're more impressed with seeing a S/RS Audi, I am too regarding the RS6, not the S4 which really doesn't stand out compared to all dressed up S-Line A4.

    Completely off topic: it's a bit sad how Lexus is America's most popular luxury manufacturer. There are just too many Lexuses!!!

    There is a group of people on the HELM board that would complete disagree with that! Lexus can't be and exclusive brand when most of their models cost less than 50K and their two best sellers are based on a Camry platform.

    Another off-topic: merc, read my post in the E-Class room. I read the Insideline article, and was so impressed that I was almost prompted to put down a deposit on the E350 4Matic with the Sport Package and AirMatic suspension.

    Gasp! Heading over there right now!

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'll bet you some people in the AMG CLs, SLs and S-Classes do want to row their own gears- in the ultimate luxury. A small minority of them, at least.

    Yeah and some people would like a 1000hp for 35K. I can't see anyone wanting to row their own gears in a S-Class no matter what the model. Ditto for the S8 or any other larger German sedan. Now the Maser Quattroporte is a different story.

    By the way, I didn't just do "guesswork" for the specs on the new Audi R8. Plenty of the specs have been released- not guessed -in the latest magazines. I know the R8 will have an aluminum spaceframe, quattro AWD, and an optional V10; I know what it will look like, and I know it will have a relatively luxurious interior- Audi never lets us down in that respect.

    Yeah its called glancing at the Lamborghini Gallardo's specs and the LeManns Concept. I don't remember saying that you pulled anything about the R8 out of thing air esf. We all know what you've stated about the R8.

  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I think that it's good luck for Lexus to base cars on the Camry platform... it's a bit spooky: all the cars that are based on the Camry in the Toyota Group are the respective brand's best-selling models:

    RX/ES (IS and GS are on a different platform)

    Camry/Avalon/Sienna (the Avalon isn't quite that popular)

    Any Scions? I'm guessing the xA and xB are based on the Camry.

    Kind of odd, no? I guess it's quite good to have Camry genes.

    Yesterday, I saw the new ES- it's nicer looking than the old one by a long shot, but it's still nothing really special. I'm sure it's satisfying to drive, what with it's 270hp.

    When I go to "Streets of Tomorrow" with my sun in June, we're going to be first in line to be driven in the RS4! Can't wait! merc, I'm sure you're going too? You wouldn't be in the RS4 room if you weren't!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    There are no Scions based on the Camry platform.

    You and I differ on the new ES I guess. The car is tall and slab sided to the point of looking like something from Pokeman to me. Very ugly. I'm sure it drives nice for people who like that sort of ride though.

    Actually I hadn't heard about any Audi events, Streets of Tomorrow???

  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Go to:,4360,status-P_eventDropdownDate-Ap- - ril%2B2006_eventDropdownCallingPage-eventSearch_eventDropdownTab-U_eventId-52208- - _eventDropdownCategoryId-3_eventDropdownStateId-0_,00.html?referringPage=Home-Se- - c_Feature

    This has all the info on "Streets of Tomorrow". I'm surprised you haven't heard of it- it's been publicized all over the web.

    What it really is is that Audi comes to most of the major cities in the U.S. (including Chicago), and they let anyone who comes drive all the cars you'd like, including the Q7. But, you can only be driven by a proffesional driver in the RS4- and there was a 2-hour wait for the car at Los Angeles! There is supposedly a luxurious waiting area when you're waiting for test-drives, equipped with a Bang & Olufsen sound system. There was also an S8 in the main room of the Los Angeles event, (and an R8 LeMans racer) which you could sit inside of (I read a post from someone who went to it).
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Also- I never said I liked the new ES. I just said it looks better than the last generation.

    I saw another GL today on the road, and I must say it looks a bit better in person, though I'm still not sold on the rear end design and cheap-looking cladding.

    Also, I'm sure when you see the new ES on the street you'll think it looks marginally better than you do now.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Ok, I'll check it out. like the GL a little better in person. :D

    I'm afraid I've seen the new ES on the street several times, its too slab sided and ill-proportioned. Not to beat a dead horse but to say it looks better than before doesn't say much considering how ugly that car was.

    The Audi dealer here must be having something this weekend he has a big tent going up and what looked like a big "Quattro" banner waiting to be put up.

  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    Back on topic...

    Saw the RS4 in person. Simply an incredible looking vehicle. Somewhat understaded, yet it has that "bulged" out profile with the RS4 bodywork. The 19 inch wheels on the RS4 are awesome. Glorious sounds from the 4.2 420hp motor. The exhast note in S mode makes a 911 sound like Bambi.

    A few notes from some of the Audi folks. Only 1000 cars each year will be made for the next 3 years.

    The best car on the planet for under 75K, IMO!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I don't think a thousand units is enough. I really wish Audi would bring over the RS4 Cabrio even it were for one year.

  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    It's the bean counters that probably nixed a RS4 cab here in the states. With the time and money it takes to bring any car to the US market, I doubt it makes much financial sense for Audi to have a RS4 cab here. The same with the RS4 Avant. And regular S4 cab sales are quite low to begin with anyway.

    But it would be quite a sweet ride, though, and I'd be all for a US spec RS4 Cab.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Ahhh, I do too...

    It would really be nice if I could get a (used) RS4 Cabriolet in 4 or 5 years!

    My son went up to me one morning, and said that it wouldn't be sold here. I replied by saying "Well, maybe I can get one from Germany!"

    And I was only half kidding- the unbelievable driving experience, killer looks and an interior as comfortable as my S4's would be worth the shipping price.

    [I'd take out another mortgage to get one]


    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX 330
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    5/21/2006 OFFICIAL BELL & ROSS TIMESTAMP: 2:51:44 PM EDT
    Title: to carnut
    Comment: ok fine audi has money, but just a few years ago audi did not have money and volkwagen came to the rescue. Today, volkwagen must lay off 20,000 workers, so audi can not be doing so great. Secondly Audi, does not make the monster profits of toyota, honda or BMW which will make a 4 billion dollar pretax profit this year. BMW net profit 2005 2.239 billion euro, audi 824 million euro, also audi has to turn that money over to its VW owner. If audi was a great as many people claim then they would already had some suv's instead of waiting until 2006 to launch a long wheelbase verison of the vw toureg, called the Q7 in 2006 and having to wait until 2008 for this Q5. I have a passion for automobiles but clearly carnut and other audi fans you know the facts stop kidding yourselves.

    There is so much I'd like to say about this comment... it wasn't posted on this website, but here is the link:

    I won't tell you the name, but if you'd like to see it, this is the last post on the page, so far as I know.

    I am aggrivated, mostly because for some reason, autospies won't allow me to post on their website. I've been trying repeatedly to get a new password e-mailed to me, but I haven't heard from them.

    Any help? I wouldn't stop thanking you!
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    I wouldn't let it get to me. You will always have hard-core haters that love to stir up trouble. Heck I'm one of those some times. I love to debate and not scared to make jabs. In the long run Audi will be fine. BMW, and Mercedes will zig, and Audi will zag. Yes, Audi is late to the suv party. Big deal. I'm no expert on foreign business law but I doubt that Audi just turns over profits to VW. That's how Enron got in trouble. I don't think Audi is counting on the Q7 to make them huge profits as much as it is looking for a foot in the doorway to middle America. They will continue to make cars built on passion, engineering, and the luxury GT car ideal that it does so well IMO. Most people that hate on Audi are driving Toyotas. This guy is probably lucky to be driving a Kia
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    While I do not know the details of how Audi spends its profit, VW group in general has been suffering from financial troubles for a few years. If not for the German government subsidies that bails out large corporations in trouble, many would have ended up in some serious trouble. At one point, there was even a rumor of foreign take-over of the VW group. German government was criticized by other EU member countries for this practice, especially with regard to the VW group (not that they don't do the same). If not for Porsche's cash, VW could have very well ended up with a new owner and the different brands within the group may have been sold as a piece-meal. 21861.php
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    that VW's woes are in question both financially and politically. The most important thing is that Audi is on a steady climb both in the minds of people, and financially.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    Audi is quite profitable and doing very well. So is Lamborghini & Bentley. It's weird how all three higher end brands are doing bang-up business, and the volume seller VW is having reliability and sales issues. VW cant sell 1000 Phaetons here in the states, but Bentley is selling 5,000 units of the GT and sedan @ $150,0000 plus, which is largely a Phaeton in the underpinnings. And just for the record, the Q7 only shares 15-20% parts with the T-REG and Porsche.

    Audi is on a roll as a company. Their product line is the best it's ever been, and it's arguably stonger than MB and BMW right now. Audi had nearly 16,000 advanced orders for the Q7, and that SUV will do really well for Audi. Also, the new A5 sedan will be here late next year as well.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Also, the new A5 sedan will be here late next year as well.

    A5 sedan?????

  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    sorry.... A5 coupe! :)
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Actually, there are quite a few rumors that Audi is going the Mercedes way-- the A5 may be a competitor to both the rumored CLE (cheap CLS-like four-door coupe) and the CLK/3 Series convertible, because Audi may offer both a four-door coupe version and a coupe/cabriolet.

    The coupe and cabriolet will replace the A4 Cabriolet, with radical (but still elegant) new styling. The A5 saloon (just a rumor, remember) will represent a new model in their lineup. It's odd how they're doing this- why would someone buy an A4 or A6 when they could buy an A5 four-door coupe (unless, of course, it has minimal headroom like the CLS)?

    Also, there is an A7 model, which will come in coupe and cabriolet models exclusively. The A7 will have a wide set of competition, ranging from the Mercedes-Benz CLK to the CL, with the 6 Series, Jaguar XK and SL550 ranging in between. It will be a four seater, unlike the SL, and its closest competitors should be the 6 and XK.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    I just got back from Audi's Streets of tommorow event in Dallas.
    The event was at South Fork ranch where they filmed "Dallas" the tv show some years ago. Nice place.
    Audi did this one right. Excellent food, and drink. Great staff, and hosts. Grounds were beautiful. I had some hot laps in the RS4 [as a passenger :mad: ] Anyone who dismisses this car as typical under steering crap is clueless. This car accelerates like a bat out of hell, and turns in nicely with the tail able to slide out just so before the bias turns to the front, and pulls it out of the corner. I had 2 different guys tell me that it lapped the ring quicker than an M5. Unfortunately it was an unofficial lap time for some unknown reason. If Audi fails to get this lap time public it will be one in a long line of marketing blunder IMO.
    The Q7 is very elegant. My only complaint is that the steering feels overly boosted. Other than that it is THE supreme luxury SUV IMO. I'm sure the bone headed auto journalists will declare the BMW better after taking it on the track vs said bimmer. As if soccer Mom's are mad with anticipation for an SUV that they can hot lap in LOL.
    The S8 was just for looking, but it looked like it was ready to kick someone in the mouth just sitting there. Awesome, period, end of story.
    Also interesting was talking to one of the advertising executives that works with Audi. Their frustration runs on boil due to VW sucking up most of Audi's profits to band- aid their issues. They do hope to again do more of these driving events in the fall.
    As far as future models go, no diesel Q7 for US, doubtful of the A5 making it to US, direct injection will not likely hit the S4 until the body style change in 08 as an 09 model.
    I hope this helps....
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,798
    Sorry you had to post your SOT here rather than the SOT thread itself. Sounds like you had a much better location than the overcrowded, constricted downtown LA location Audi got stuck with here in Los Angeles. There I got a little of that frustration from the A3 Product manager (about VW holding them back, restricting what they can get hold of, etc.). Maybe next time Audi visits LA they can use Hollywood Park or some other location more suitable to sport driving!

    One thing I did not get, sadly, was a real sense of Audi trying to improve the after sales customer experience. The Audi dealers I have found locally have short hours, no weekend service. I don't know if this is because they can't sell enough/make enough to justify/pay for extra service hours. Once Audi reliability gets up to that of Toyota (or at least out of the Euro swamp VW and Mercedes are still stuck in) service avability won't be so important.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    Yeah I agree, I think Audi feels very tied up by VW and that even extends to how much they are willing to take it on the chin regarding customer service. Just a hunch but I feel like Audi understands this but VW can't afford it. It is a top down culture type of thing. IOW, if the heads of VW/Audi were pushing better customer service, it would trickle down to the dealers. I bet that when Lexus does meetings, and communications with dealers it harps on the importance of customer service, and probably threatens to restrict, or deny dealers a license to sell it's product who get bad marks for this. It's a top down culture that needs to be created IMO.
    Yeah the location was great. The Q7 was driven on streets through a very quiet and uncongested neighborhood. There were 2 tracks at a local high school parking lot that Audi shuttled you back and forth from. One for the RS4, one for A3, A4,A6,A8, and some competition [X5,XC90,GX470.} The Lexus had so much body roll when being muscled around the track [not by me as I believe driving a Lexus on a closed course is like taking a spoon to a gun fight.] It looked like a sinking Titanic.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,798
    The track avability sounds excellent. We had congested city streets that with very short drives proved very little (only the Q7 was allowed a decent driving time).

    Does VW and Audi attitude seem more for a race car rather than transporation with flair? Do Lotus, Noble and the other niche race cars have similar attitudes "Buy our car, go race, and don't bother us if it breaks"?
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,798
    Also an Edmunds editor suggested an RS4 would be an excellent day to day hauler.
    Wouldn't the RS4 be better suited for high speed cruising between cities (lux airplane on wheels)?
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    small children due to smallish back seat. But then I'm not going to be hot rodding with my kids in the back. For say a couple and a dog? Yes, excellent. This car rips. Editor in chief Karl on this here website said he'd take lt over the M5 if given a choice right now.
    As far a as attitude, I don't know if that is their attitude but it would be hard for them to justify that thinking while putting out luxury models like the A8, A6,Q7.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,798
    How did Audi do this time around in the '06 report?

    Their parent, VW, was third....from the bottom, and worse than in '05.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,798
    ..Audi came in below average. 130 defects per 100 cars.

    For comparison: Saturn 129, Merceces 139, VW 171 (3rd from bottom), Porsche 91, Lexus 93, Cadillac 117, BMW 142,
    Chevrolet 124 (industry average)
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Hey, it was better than BMW and Mercedes-Benz!

    And people act like BMW doesn't have the same problem...
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,798
    Ahh, who cares about reliability on Audi's?
    The main emphasis on 'em is drivability, especially on the Nürburgring (when do we get a Nürburgring freeway system here? Does Audi know something we don't know? ;) )

    Edmunds' new review was very positive about the RS4 as a drivers car, BTW. And Audi deserves praise for accomplishing a decent ride with those huge wheels and 35 profile tires! Detriot 3+Dubbers must be green with envy over that!
This discussion has been closed.