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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread



  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738 - - e=false

    That's the ugly reality. Honda vastly overprices their cars. This also includes delivery, so the price is $17,108 if you remove that(because none of the dealers locally advertize their prices with it included). $2900+ difference between MSRP and CarsDirect's price. And you KNOW they aren't selling it at cost. Their average is $300-400 plus the holdback they keep for themselves.

    PLUS, That's with automatic! Subtract $719 for stickshift. $16,390 beofore delivery. And Honda isn't currently offereing any incentives on 2007 models. That's a HUGE amount of profit for the dealer if you believe the "there's only $300 in profit in this car".

    Also, Honda has $1000 rebates on last year's models quite routinely in the fall, which is how you get in the $15K plus change range.

    Oh - one thing, though. It's mechanically identical to the EX except for the missing rear swaybar. Add it back in at your local mechanic to greatly improve the handling.

    But this does bring up the point that Honda overprices its cars.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Since the perception is in the mind of the buyer, I think that one does not have to own a Honda, Mazda or Toyota to be happy.

    Hey now, don't go putting Mazda in with Honda/Toyota :) .

    The Mazda6 sells for about the same price as the Fusion/Milan...IOW, $2000-3000 less than Camry or Accord. If you want a group of three...Altima is the other one that seems to be in the Camcord price range.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    250,000 or more Americans once wore bell bottom pants, for no apparent reason. :blush: Just thought I'd point that out...

    Honda beats Camry in one way, in that the design has had enough time to work out any bugs. Gas prices are high, and Honda company is seen as the leading company. Some are afraid of the new Camry due to early on transmission problems, or perhaps it is the facially challenged look. As for Sonata, it has come a long way, but I am sure it is not better than the Accord and Camry in most respects. It can be a solid value leader, as in most stuff per dollar. Would be a car which is not a bad choice, but then again, most new cars in the appliance car class, are now so much better than the old days. The Accord may be better in some ways than is the Milan or Fusion, but I would lean more towards buying a Milan, if style matters at all. The Accord is not ugly, but is no more stylin' than say the Sonata. Sonata has a great warranty, but not the resale of the Accord. The Camry is a good choice for resale value, and possibly trouble free. Hard to say these days which appliance car will in reality last the longest. I am sure there are many people still in doubt about Hyundai, and are waiting yet another year or two to see how things go. A new plant, new engine, new everything is great, but has NO longer term testing to go by. I test drove a used Sonata, which had lumbar support on the seat, though I could not adjust the seat. The reason is that the little handle fell off. The short test drive was OK, but there was nothing which struck me as exciting.

    My conclusion so far is that my test drive of a used CTS yielded the most fun, so I may not be willing to settle for appliance class again. Rumor has it the FWD Mazda6 and Milan are somewhat sporty, so I may give them a go. What I really long for is a nice coupe again, with RWD. Yeah, I know a Bimmer is fine, but only if you pay the upkeep.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "But this does bring up the point that Honda overprices its cars."

    According to who? I argue you get what you pay for. Price and value are in the eyes of the beholder. Some people might think the $15 steak at Outback is the same as a $150 steak at a top-end steak house. Some don't see it that way. Fair enough. But then you have to wonder about the whole sales thing. Why so many people buy overpriced (sic) cars?
  • If this is so, why not buy a used Elantra? That would certainly save you a lot of money, would be practical, and would stroke your passion for saving money

    Well to be perfectly honest, I wasn't looking for a Sonata when I found it. My Saturn needed replacing, I had come into some money for a good down payment and actually stopped in to look at the Kia Sedona at the same dealership. But I was offered a test ride and I was blown away by the engine and solid ride and all around appeal of the car. They offered to sell it to me for $16,595. I didn't get it that day. Instead it got me thinking about a car over an SUV. I went out and test drove a Honda Accord V6 and a 4. Test drove a V6 Camry, Test drove an Impala, and a Mazda 6 V6 (my son has one). Oh and I checked out the Chrysler PT Cruiser. But after reading the problems with them here on Edmunds I quickly ruled them out. Nobody could match the car for the price and feature for feature so after I came in from work (I work on an offshore drilling rig) I called and the car was still there. I decided after reading these forums, road tests, and any internet info I could find that I would be just nuts NOT to buy the Sonata. True I could have been wowed by a fancier interior on another car but when I weighed all the plusses and minuses the Sonata was it. Sorry I didn't even test drive the Elantra or the Kia Optima. Could have but didn't. Thought about a Mustang but I got grand kids and wanted the 4 doors. In the end I am completely satisfied with my purchase. May you all be as happy with your rides as I am! If you gotta make payments it's nice to smile every time you get behind the wheel. ;)
  • Have any of you guys seen it?
    Have any of you checked it out?

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    I just cannot believe such epic beauty can be found in this price range.
    Everything else just seems to pedestrian, you know?

    That said, I do like the VW Passat a whole lot!

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    Why they don't sell is beyond me. Good German engineering. Very pretty shapes.
  • I forgot this one:
    I love it!!!

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    I finally feel like there are exciting choices in the consumer market!
  • Love that exterior styling and what a beautiful interior.

    But the knock will be against the fit and finish of the entire car, and its old-school engineering.

    I'd like to see Honda do this interior option in the new 08 Accords.
  • booyahcramer,

    Which interior? The Passat?
    Volkswagens are known to have the highest quality interiors in their respective classes.
    Almost all auto writers would unanimously agree on that.

    The Honda Accord even tries to mimic the Passat interior; which is not at all a bad thing in any way. So, like the Accord, I would not worry about the interior quality of the Passat. Believe it or not, if anything, the Passat is better (although it is slightly more expensive).

    The 2008 interior for the Accord will likely mimic the new Civic, since this is the direction Honda wants to take their cars.
    Honda's chief designer in Japan was very hurt to hear that most Americans think Hondas are boring and lifeless, so he decided to spice things up.
    That is why we have this. Take a look at the interior, it may be similar in the 2008 Accord (a sort of space-age theme if you fancy that):

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    That is how they should look going forward. What do you think?

    Again, I wouldn't worry about the interior quality of a Passat. They are very likely the best in the class (although it may surprise you).
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    I sure hope he wasn't referring to the Chev interior. That has to be the fugliest ever. (But, beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.)
  • It looks just fine. Few automobiles are truly ugly anymore today.
    As a matter of fact, it'd be hard for me to name any truly ugly cars anymore there are fewer and fewer of them these days.

    That said, here are three interiors that I do not care for:

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    And this--
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    And this:
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    All three look terrible--although the top one is a little old. The updated version it really carries now is still bad.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The Camry interior is not terrible. The Ridgeline is a truck, and not supposed to be pretty. But there is no excuse for the Malibu, except cost cutting.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    So your replacing "ugly" with "terrible"?? Good one.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    By the way- the bottom two are of trucks for those that don't recognize them
  • The last thing Honda is doing is mimicing VW interiors. Also you're not gonna see anything like the Civic interior in the new Accord. What kind of nonsense is that?

    Yea - I love the two-tone interior color scheme. Looks as good in the GM as it does in the Infinitis. Honda should adopt it. Its beautiful.

    Add that color palette to typical aircraft quality fit and finish Honda interiors and they'll pull in even more buyers.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    By the way- the bottom two are of trucks for those that don't recognize them

    Oh, I just assumed it was a Camry (it's a Tundra interior). Not bad, but kind of delicate looking for a truck interior.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    I just think that two tone interior in the Chevy is too trendy and will become outdated very quickly. I also don't like that shade of brown--again personal preference.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Two tone on the dash is ok by me, but not on the seats. It's just too much IMO. Not crazy about that shade of brown either. A little lighter brown maybe. Others seem to like it though.
  • I have no clue why you find that offensive.
    Volkswagen/Audi is the benchmark for industry interiors.

    That's just the way it is.
    Does that make you feel inferior in any way?
    I sense you're bristling at this and I have no reason why.

    If one's self-worth is wrapped-up in the brand of car that one buy so much so, admitting that they take cues from another brand's cars makes one feel inferior, then one has very serious problems one should have addressed.

    That is simply the way the industry works, There's nothing else to it really.
    Some manufacturers are better than others at various things.
    Some are more consistent than others.
    The perfect car will never be made. :)
    So manufacturers benchmark one another at all levels. All of them do--every last one.

    Anyways, Honda is moving toward a less plebeian design language in the future--both inside and out, and Acura is leading the way for them so-to-speak. The Civic won't be out on a limb alone after this redesign.:

    Here is the Honda Accord Coupe Concept sketch from a while back--
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    It should show up at NAIAS 2007.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,783
    honda prefers to take push their design envelope on the entry level models. an exception is the new MDX. lets see how that one works out.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    That sketch looks a lot like the G-35 coupe my wife will be turning in in the next few days (end of lease). She just got a new Honda CR-V (lease)today.

    And people used to complain that the '06 Sonata copied the Accord tail lights! LOL.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Posts: 508
    A lot of people are basing their feelings about the Camry on the last generation. Its worth repeating: I'm an 07 Camry owner who would NOT have purchased a pre-07 Camry.

    I don't mean to offend anybody that did, but I dislike the styling of those cars (too bland) and I really hated the interior.

    THIS is the Camry that I like (and it happens to be the same trim and color (Barcelona Red) as mine:



    And since we are arguing about price, if you want a Camry V6, which is the fastest car in the midsize class, then its yours for $22,700, or $100 over invoice. If you want to go basic, you can get into a Camry for $18700 at the same dealer.

    Lets not pretend every Camry costs thousands more than every Fusion. If you want a Sonata Limited you're looking at $22+ right now as well. 2&loc=FTO&mall=CH&year=2007&mk_code=TO is the place for real prices if you want GM, Toyota, Hyundai, Chrysler products, Subaru, Mitsu, etc.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Volkswagen/Audi is the benchmark for industry interiors.

    I think that's referring to Audi interior's superior fit and finish and not necessary meant that they have a better interior design.

    Personally I'll take Accord, Camry and Mazda6's interior over Passat's and IS350/250, TL, G35's interior over A4's.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    That sketch looks a lot like the G-35 coupe

    I think it looks very similar to the 06 TL rear. I find it hard to believe the license plate will be that low. It's only a sketch.
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  • Until i get a "It IS the new accord coupe" from the boss of honda,I will look at it as being the new Acura CL. For the CL, its a more natural evo/revo-lution.



    or even as the new prelude. It seems to be a transition for it also. It is just TOO sporty/good looking to be an accord. This picture puts me at un- accord.


    ps:TOO MANY POSTS IN HERE!! A MINIMUM OF 40 POSTS DAILY MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO KEEP UP WITH THE POST I LEAVE A DAY BEFORE!! Not that too many posts is a bad thing ;)! Ok continue.

    ~*~*~*~HAPPY HOLIDAYS~*~*~*~
  • rhduke00rhduke00 Posts: 129
    Have any of you guys seen it?
    Have any of you checked it out?

    Test drove an XR two weeks ago. The one I test drove had a leather trimmed interior but not the Morocco Brown version. I did sit in one with the Morocco Brown leather and thought it way over the top. Anyway my impressions of the Aura XR are:

    Interior is nice (except the Morocco Brown).

    Exteriors of the 2007 Camry, 2007 Altima, 2006/7 Sonata, Accord, and Passat are more appealing.

    Power trains of the Camry V6, Altima V6, and Sonata V6 (I have not test driven an Accord V6) feel more responsive than the XRs 3.6L with the six speed automatic.

    The sticker price (which included some dealer BS add-ons) of the Aura that I test drove was over $27,000. Since it's a Saturn it's a no haggle price. For that much money, I'd rather have an Azera Limited with the Ultimate package, or Camry XLE V6.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    mfletou1 wrote: "If you want a Sonata Limited you're looking at $22+ right now as well."

    The $22K+ figure you quoted is not correct, at least at my Hyundai dealer it is not. I have a firm quote from them and it is as follows: $19,091, not including TTL here in Illinois. The total delivered price, including TTL, for a 2007 Sonata Limited is $20,574, a far cry from $22K+.

    Fitzmall is not even close to being price competitive with Pugi Hyundai/Mazda/VW.
  • Well, "good design" is subjective. to a large degree--without doubt.

    Build quality and "feel" (which is the issue here) are less so the further away you get from "perfection".
    So anybody making even a half-decent effort would benchmark.
    That's the only way you know if your own efforts really mean anything at all.

    If you're going to do that, then VW/Audi is usually your "standard"--just as how BMW often ends-up as the benchmark for handling (something that can also be subjective at the limit).
  • skibry1skibry1 Posts: 174
    I was excited...for awhile...about another famsedan with
    a clutch...alas I was wrong...Merry Christmas All
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    Where are you getting info that Acura is resurrecting the CL?
This discussion has been closed.