High-End European Luxury Sedans
Tired of the "Lexus is better" endless debate? Lets ban the Lexus from this Discussion and just talk about Jaguar, Bentley, Maserati, Mercedes, BMW, Phaeton and Audi. Maybe add Volvo someday. :-)
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paldi,
That big VW has been a favorite of mine since day one though I don't think there will be a follow up model because as nice as it is, it will never do well in a VW store. Good photo, very classy.
M
BTW, the phaeton is a fabulous car. I hope it doesn't end up being cannibalized by the bentley and Audi facets of the group, like some are saying. A lot of car for the money.
There are dozens going through the auctions lately. Mostly all company owned cars, demos, turnbacks and such. Some W12s with the 4-seater package next week! I hope to see a lot more on the street soon. After that, VW plans on building up sales gradually. No more big incentives. Maybe a thousand new sales this year.
So buy time is now to save big! But hey, the car is a great value new. Just over my budget.
Tomorrow is going to be a Saturday drive. Can't wait. Now, back to reading the manual... :confuse:
congrats on your Phaeton purchase.
i too have grown weary of the jdpower and consumer report
afflicted and addicted. when it comes to exciting, engaging,
and attractive luxury sedans nobody comes close to the
Europeans.
Yep rear mounted for better weight distribution, but that isn't the problem the most writers have with it. The Maser's tranny is one of the SMG/F1 type deals in which the clutch is actuated by a computer instead of your left foot. This is fine for people who like to use the shift pedals on the steering wheel, but in automatic mode it doesn't come anywhere near the smoothness of a traditional automatic. This what everyone complains about during a test drive. Then again this isn't a car for the average luxury car buyer either. There is supposed to be a V12 version of the Quattroporte sometime next year with a proper automatic as well as a manual/F1 per the current rumor mill. We'll see.
I've noticed that in recent months there are about 4-5 Quattroporte owners on the boad that post regularly, maybe we can get them to share there experiences here. Its a rare and special car that won't appeal to most, only that true enthusiast.
M
M
The gear box mount in the rear does contribute to the QP's rear weighted weight distribution which helps the car driver much smaller than it is and has a really pleasing turn in an other handling characteristics.
But here is the difference: The QP calls to be played with. Whispers to me at night to come out and play - to see what kind of experience we might create together this time. Other wonderful cars I've had, particularly the Germans ones, wait in the garage for me to ask something from it; then it delivers with discipline, predictability and style. QPs are for luxury sedan buyers looking for an experience.
It does have some annoyances, to be sure. The Navigation system sucks big time. The 4K massaging seats don't really massage. Given that its a great road trip car it cold use another cup holder. The Consule refrigerator/warmer is GIPE (Good Idea, Poor Execution). But the car has style, sex appeal and just begged to be driven (usually fast).
check this link
1998 Maybach
The Super V8 is the flagship XJ and has the XJR's 4.2 liter 390 hp supercharged V-8 and Brembo brakes.
I drove an XJR year ago and loved it. I like how Jaguar hasn't gone overboard with electronics. The Brembo brakes and 6 speed ZF automatic were great.
The Super V8 weighs over 800 pounds less than a BMW 760Li.
Having seen the Quattroporte in person (at a Sams-club parking lot of all places!) I have to say it is the most beautiful sedan currently on the road....maybe in a long time.
Mercedes CLS would be up there if it weren't for the front end. Side profile to rear end view is very interesting and "flows" nicely, but that front end (especially the headlights) turns me off. Still though, I have to say I like it. Just hoping for a front end redo in a few years
M
http://www.germancarfans.com/classics.cfm/classicid/5050516.001
M
Well, the dealer took the depreciation hit not me. I could have waited another 2 months for another 4k but they were planning to take it to auction.
I've had my Phaeton 48 hours. My first high-end european luxury sedan. I'm a happy camper.
This one will cause a sensation! Love to see a Maybach, Maserati, Flying Spur comparo.
It would seem to be pretty high maintenance having all that leather to deal with, and vulnerable to damage as well...
The physical plant though is pure PHAETON, but for a whole lot more $$$
M
Is there going to be further development? I agree with you that it is a good looking car and that the discounted prices make it a good value. But my impression is that it has been an abysmal failure in a business sense, selling in disappointing numbers worldwide, mostly due to the badge imho. I would be surprised if there is a second generation. Has anyone heard differently?
Take good care of it because ultimately it could be valuable as a rarity.
As far as the Phaeton goes, I'm sure it is a fine vehicle, just that for the life of me, I cannot understand VW selling that car under the VW name-plate when they have the Audi brand already? Just one move that completely baffled me, especially in the U.S. market where "we" are very brand name conscious.
And, does anyone not know that Lexus is a Toyota...The fact that the PHAETON is assembled by hand, in a factory built just for it's production, and shares the same frame as the Bentley C-GT and Flying Spur speaks volumes as to it's quality
Additionally, PHAETON owners are universally in love with their stealth wealth sleds...Think of it this way..."From Why? to WOW!!!"
Even though I think most people know Toyota owns/produces Lexus (and I'm NOT delving into that here!) they get to drive around a product with the Lexus name on it, rather than the same badge that someone with a Toyota Echo has.
I realize that it shouldn't make a bit of difference, but it does to the market. I just don't understand why VW did this (or maybe I should say why VAG let them do this) as they already have Audi as the mechanism to do this with. I just think it showed a major misunderstanding of how the US market operates. Doesn't take away anything from the Phaeton in the least, just the business decisions behind the scenes.
This guy must have a nice garage!
Nice house. What lives in the other two garages?
Florida or Southern CA?
The bigger question regarding business decisions is why the new Jetta & B6 Passat were not launched before the PHAETON...It would seem that keeping the bread & butter products fresh should have precedence...
one more generation will cement it with it's core
buyers and remove any speculation about whether
or not it was a wise decision. much like the first
generation LS 400 buyers the buyers of the Phaeton
are intensely brand loyal and believe 100% in the car.
i would hope VW doesn't de content the car with the next
generation in order to save cost. price point is important
but so is quality.
generation LS 400 buyers the buyers of the Phaeton
are intensely brand loyal and believe 100% in the car
I believe that they're loyal but that isn't going to be enough imho to save the car. With 61 units sold in the US last month (down from 173 in Apr04) I really question whether there will be a second generation of the car. Somehow I think the LS was better received back in 1990. Like I said before the Phaeton could even be a collector's item down the road, kind of like DeLorean.
Wow, is that more or less than the Bentley platform mate? The Bentleys are actually doing quite well in sales under VW tutelage, compared to the new Rolls and Maybach that suddenly doubled their price points in the last half decade. Perhaps, a Phaeton may not be necessary for economy of scale purpose considerations. VW needs to take itself upmarket more gradually. The jump from Passat to Phaeton was just too much for the market to handle.
We do not live and work in a vacuum...Bread & Butter products must have priority and that would be the new Jetta V & B6 Platform Passat due in August...I start ordering them next week...
Very important to remember...In 2004 VWAG had shipped a substantial number of PHAETONs to the US and there was inventory in Dealerships and at the Ports of Entry...not the case for 2005; we are on an Order Only basis.
The Touareg and Phaeton though are classically good looking vehicles though, in that VW way.
M
a change in the wheels...from the 16" crap that is standard...to the 17" Vision V BBS make all the diffrence in the world in the appearance of the Jetta...These are now a Port Installed option.
And, although I am sure that the Avalon reference is humerous to you, in fact many PHAETON features are being trickled down to this Jetta...refrigerated glove box and center console as examples...
The PHAETON is the cornerstone of the Volkswagen Brand. If you have not seen the Passat B6...take the time and do the search. I predict that by 2007 the PHAETON will the one automobile that others will aspire to become...we are currently working on a styling refresh for that MY, and we may see a 2 or 4 door Coupe as well. And by then, we should be able to offer our V10 Twin Turbo Diesel in all 50 States as well...Stand the **********
M