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## Comments

38,515NMAC's August buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 39 month lease of a 2010 Maxima S with 12,000 miles per year are .00093 and 54%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

When negotiating your deal on this car, make sure to take advantage of the $500 bonus cash and $1,000 lease cash that are currently available on leases of it in Florida.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

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3What are your thoughts about this deal? I’m trying to make heads or tails of it but the terms are a little different than what everyone else is posting… not to mention the payment. I did have some negative equity so that might explain the payment. Did I get taken?

2010 Maxima – MSRP $37,850

Tech Pkg

Monitor Pkg

Cold Pkg

Splash Guards

Floor Mats

HID Headlights

Gross Capital Cost - $40,311

Capital Cost Reduction - $1,468

Adjusted Capital Cost - $39,437

Residual - $19,303

Rent Charge - $1,076 (??)

39 Month Lease/15k per year

Paid $478 at signing (Excellent credit)

Trade in (08 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GS – (owe $18,000, they said they would give me $12,000)

Monthly Lease Payment - $576 (including tax)

:shades:

606I'm obviously not Car_man but let me throw in my two cents. It's hard to say whether you got taken or not because you didn't provide enough information. The two most important items in any lease transaction are the selling price and cost of money (money factor/interest rate). The payment of $576, including tax, doesn't help at all unless you disclose your state and sales tax rate.

Have you signed a lease agreement? If so, do you have a copy? If the answer to both questions is yes, then all relevant numbers (except money factor and residual factor) should be disclosed. If no lease agreement exists, then I suggest that you ask the dealer for a copy of their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document that discloses all pertinent information including all items listed below. The beauty of this document is that it never lies.

Ball park or rounded numbers don''t cut it. Every number disclosed must be to the penny. For example, is your payment

exactly576.00 or is it 575.91 or 575.72 or ... ??? ... Every lease has the following components. It would be helpful if you could fill in the blanks withexactnumbers.MSRP........................................................ 37,850.00

Sell Price................................................... _________

Amounts FinancedNegative Equity.......................................... 6,000.00 ? (18,000.00 - 12,000.00)

Anything Else?.......................................... __________

Gross Cap.................................................. 40,311.00

Cap Reduction............................................ 1,468.00

*Adjusted Cap............................................. 38,843.00 (Something is wrong- see below)Residual Factor.......................................... 51% ???

Residual Value........................................... 19,303.00 Is this exact???

Money Factor............................................. ________

Term.......................................................... 39

Monthly Payment with or without out Tax..... _________

Sales Tax Rate.......................................... _________

State........................................................ _________

You also need to itemize all items paid at lease signing. Acquisition fee? Doc fee? DMV fee? Are these paid at lease signing or are they financed in the lease? How could you pay only $478 at signing IF your monthly payment is $576?

* You've indicated the following...

Gross Cap.................................................. 40,311.00

Cap Reduction............................................ 1,468.00

Adjusted Cap.............................................. 38,843.00

Gross Cap - Cap Reduction = Adjusted Cap

40,311.00 - 1,468.00 = 38,843 not 39,437.00 What's going on?

A NOTE ON CAP REDUCTIONS...I do not advise making a cash down payment (i.e., cash cap reduction). A car is a depreciating asset and is purchased for consumption; and so, it's an expense and not an investment. No savvy investor would ever invest in stock that they know will depreciate or lose value over time. Also, if the vehicle is lost or stolen and never recovered, the insurance carrier will only pay ACV (actual cash value or est. market value). If your lease balance exceeds the ACV (called the GAP), your GAP protection will cover the difference. This GAP narrows the larger the down payment. Large down payments can cause the ACV to exceed the lease balance (negative GAP). In such cases, you necessarily risk losing part or all of your cap reduction if your car is totaled or stolen but never recovered.

A NOTE ON MONEY FACTORS...With excellent credit, you should get the money factor with 0% reserves which means zero dealer financing profit. It's the lowest money factor that a fund providers offers to those with outstanding credit.

Hope this helps.

John

1,043~~2005 G35 Sedan~~2007 G35 Sedan

2008 G37 Sedan

2010 G37 Coupe

2012 G37 Sedan

2014 Q50 RWD

2015 QX60 RWD - Black Obsidian/Graphite - Premium Plus

2017 Q60 3.0t RWD - Majestic White/Graphite - Premium Plus, Driver's Assist, Leather, Illuminated Kick Plates

3Thanks for the reply… your post was very helpful!!

This is my first time leasing, I’ve always bought in the past instead of doing the lease thing. Since I’m new to leasing I did my homework and searched the internet, but when it came down to talk numbers the dealer started throwing out terminology that I wasn’t familiar with and the numbers to me don’t add up. When they go over the numbers it makes sense and of course they add up.

I 100% agree that I shouldn’t roll $6k negative equity into the deal but… with a growing family the two-door convertible wasn’t a great option and we figured in 39 months when the lease was up we can walk away and not have any negative equity towards the purchase of our next car and have the four-door family car in the mean time. They said they couldn’t show negative equity on the lease so they would pay off the trade without discounting the Maxima.

The numbers in the previous post are the numbers and terminology from the lease agreement. To my understanding ‘Adjusted Capital Cost’ is the same as ‘Sell Price’. They never mentioned ‘money factor/interest rate’ and the payment of $576.51 is based on $543.88 (base monthly payment) + $32.63 (tax). I’m located in Pensacola, FL and the tax rate is 6.5%.

How do you figure out the ‘money factor/interest rate’??

According to the lease agreement, the $2,000 rebate and the $478 I paid went for the registration fees, first month’s payment and towards the negative equity from the trade in.

I typed the wrong number last night for the Gross Capital Cost, it should be $40,906.65 not $40,311.65 (Agreed Vehicle Value).

Numbers according to the lease agreement:

Gross Capital Cost - $40,906.65

Capital Cost Reduction - $1,468.68

Adjusted Capital Cost - $39,437.97

Residual Value - $19,303.50

Does it make sense now??

I appreciate you take the time and explaining the numbers!

Thanks,

Ron

606With $6,000 worth of negative equity I was wondering why you just didn't "hang-in" a while longer but figured you had your reasons which are generally personal in nature.

You made the statement....

"To my understanding ‘Adjusted Capital Cost’ is the same as ‘Sell Price’."There are four basic lease formulas...

(1) Selling Price + Amounts Capitalized (financed) = Gross Cap

(2) Gross Cap - Cap Reduction = Adjusted Cap

(3) Residual Value = Residual Factor x MSRP

(4) P = F x (C + R) + (C - R)/N

P = Base Monthly Payment

F = Money Factor

C = Adjusted Cap

R = Residual Value

N = Term

Just plug in the numbers for any 4 of the 5 variables and solve for the remaining one. Using some algebra, we can solve for the money factor, F, as follows...

F = [P - (C - R)/N] / (C + R)

Substituting all known values, we get F = 0.00047. Not bad! This equates to an interest rate of about 1.128% (24 x 0.00047) suggesting that it (money factor), in all likelihood, reflects the buy rate which is the fund provider's lowest rate offered to those with excellent credit. So, I'm comfortable with that.

Now, let's try to fill in some of the blanks from my previous post...

MSRP........................................................ 37,850.00

Sell Price (S)............................................. _________ ???Amounts Financed

????????????.......................................... __________ ???

Gross Cap.................................................. 40,906.65

Cap Reduction............................................ 1,468.68

*Adjusted Cap............................................. 39,437.97

Residual Factor.......................................... 51%

Residual Value........................................... 19,303.50

Money Factor............................................. 0.00047

Term.......................................................... 39

Base Monthly Payment (pre-tax).................. 543.88

Fla Sales Tax Rate..................................... 6.5% should be 6.00% ???

Monthly Lease Payment............................. 576.51 (This is based on 6.00%)

As you can see, the most important item is still missing, namely,

selling price. This is identified in the lease agreement as the "Agreed Upon Value". If they didn't discount the vehicle, then the selling price must be at least equal to the MSRP of 37,850. So, the strongest statement that I can make, regarding selling price, is that it must be somewhere between 37,850 and 40,906.65 inclusive.Your statement...

"According to the lease agreement, the $2,000 rebate and the $478 I paid went for the registration fees, first month’s payment and towards the negative equity from the trade in."begs a lot of questions. For instance, what happened to the remaining negative equity and exactly how much is it? What are the DMV/registration fees? How much was the doc fee and acquisition fee and how were they paid; upfront or rolled into the lease? You still need to itemize all items paid at lease signing as well as all items capitalized and account for every penny. Your lease agreement should clearly show all of these items and how they were paid.

Although we've made some progress, there still remains unanswered questions. Until those questions are answered, I can't determine whether or not you got a good deal.

John

3They didn’t give me the final numbers for my trade-in. At first they said I had about $6k in negative equity but the payments were going to be around $675 per/m with $1,000 down on a ‘cloth’ Maxima with no packages. The next day they came back with a Maxima that was equipped like we wanted (the one we ended up getting). They said they would have to pay off my trade-in since they can’t show any negative equity on the lease. My pay off was $18,800… I looked up trade in value and it is about $14,000 while retail was about $15k. While shopping around most dealers were offering us wholesale $11k - $12k.

Here are some more numbers off the lease agreement.

Capitalized Cost Reduction - $1,468.68

First Month Payment - $576.51

Registration Fees - $271

Tax on Capitalized Cost Reduction - $88.12

Sales Tax Paid in Advance - $5.19

FL Fees - $68.50

Total - $2,478 Due at signing ( - $2,000 for the rebate) = $478 down

The Agreed Upon Value - $40,311.65

Would ‘Total Gross Capitalized Cost’ be the same as amount financed? If so that is $40,906.65 (agreed upon value $40,311.65 + acquisition fee $595.00)

Does that help?

Thanks again for your time!

Ron

606The dealer's claim that they can't show negative equity is hogwash. I can't stress enough that you must hold them accountable for every penny. Their Agreed Upon Value most likely includes negative equity. And so, you have no idea what the actual sell price or negative equity amounts to because I think you're taking the dealer at their word. The only thing you know is that the sell price plus negative equity = 40,311.85. You need to know both sell price and negative equity to the penny.You get those by relying on yourself; not the dealer.

You need to determine you loan payoff and the trade-in value of this vehicle. The difference is your net equity. DO NOT rely on the dealer to get the payoff. I always keep spreadsheets of my loans so I don't have to rely on anyone to tell me the loan payoff. You also need to research the selling price by checking Edmund's invoice pricing and incentives as well as overstock at zag.com for competitive low pricing in your area. In the meantime, I'll make up a selling price of $34,000 for sake of argument. I'll also assume a trade value of $12,000 and a loan balance of $18,000 yielding a negative net equity position of $6,000.

Once you get exact info, you need to construct a one-page lease proposal similar to the one below. Otherwise, the dealer is going to continue to control the deal and you're going to continue to be in the fog.

So, here is a hypothetical lease proposal. Notice the flow and how it's constructed.

MSRP........................................................ 37,850.00

Sell Price (S)............................................. 34,000.00

Amounts FinancedNegative Equity......................................... 6,000.00

Acquisition Fee......................................... 595.00

Gross Cap.................................................. 40,595.00 Sell Price + Amounts Financed

Cap Reduction............................................ 1,400.00

Adjusted Cap.............................................. 39,195.00

Residual Factor.......................................... 51%

Residual Value........................................... 19,303.50

Money Factor............................................. 0.00047

Term.......................................................... 39

Base Monthly Payment (pre-tax).................. 537.53

Fla Sales Tax Rate..................................... 6.00%

Monthly Lease Payment............................. 569.78

Amounts Due at Lease Signing...1st Month's Payment................................. 569.78

Cash Cap Reduction..................................1,400.00

Sales Tax @6.00% on $1,400 Cap Reduc... 84.00

Registration Fee....................................... 271.00

Fla Fees.................................................. 68.50

Sales Tax @6.00% on $2,000 Rebate....... 120.00

Cash Rebate Credit.................................. (2,000.00)

TOTAL DUE............................................ 513.28Gross Cap is Sell Price + any amounts financed such as negative equity, acquisition fee, etc. The adjusted cap is the gross cap - cap reductions.

What is

"Sales Tax Paid in Advance - $5.19"???This makes no sense.

I never ever allow a dealer to "run numbers" or control the deal. I do the research and, then, email them a one-page lease proposal. I don't want them to give me numbers or show me their invoice because I couldn't care less as it's totally meaningless and most likely a bunch of horse dump. The only thing in my proposal that I'll likely need to negotiate is the sell price. I've got my spreadsheet fired up and ready to rock 'n roll. And, with just a few keystrokes, bing-bang-boom, Im done!

The biggest mistake that people make when leasing is that they allow the dealer to dictate terms and control the deal. By doing so, they're basically allowing the dealer to play offense which puts them on defense. You're not going to win a football game if the other team always has the ball. They have put you in the position of having to ask how they got this number or that number. And, that's how they nail you.

John

14Does anyone have experience with 20K/year leases? I have a dealer quoting a lower lease-end value for a 20k lease calculated as $0.15/mile for 16,250 miles ($2437.50) with 15K numbers for initial LEV. Seems I should take a 15K lease and pay over-mileage, since it will drop my lease pymt by having a higher LEV.

14Need to know whether $1000 lease cash is available in Georgia, in addition to $500 Bonus Cash.

From previous posts, I see that for 39 month, 15K miles on 3.5SV, money factor = 0.00047, 51%. Still accurate? Thank you

11My current Nissan lease is up in 4 months, and Nissan is offering current lessees the opportunity to turn in leases within 3 months of termination and not be responsible for the last 3 payments, so long as we get into another Nissan.

My question is: Do I jump on the incentives that Nissan's offering right now (a total of $3000 cash that expire at the end of August) and eat 1 payment or do I wait and hope that the incentives are either the same or better in September?

Is there any historical information that shows what month is better one way or the other? Is Nissan sitting on a lot of 2010 inventory (specifically of the Maxima) that they want sold?

Thanks!

14I've asked Car_Man for the total in Georgia, I think it's $1000.

24Sticker $35,980

Cold Pkg

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11Thanks!

2After doing the math (would not answer my specific questions about residual and money factor they came up with monthly payments that were too high on both models.

I'm done with that dealer and moved on to another who will do a locate and tell me all of the numbers. They even told me on the phone what the final price could be which is very deeply discounted. Confirmed that the customer cash is $1750 but I saw another $500 on Edmunds. Wonder what that is? They haven't called me back yet. I imagine this car is hard to find.

So am I realistic to think that I could lease this car for 39 months for under $400 a month if I pay all fees up front like tax, bank and 1st?

I see some other folks have gotten pretty decent deals.

If not maybe this is just too much car for me. My calcs based on what I think the numbers could be come really close.

Thanks

Susan

52Thanks for confirming what my imaginary numbers said.

1Per your advise I got the dealer to give me a $4k check for my 02 passat trade - with the gap insurance included, why take on the risk of a big down payment right.

Here are the terms:

2010 premium pkg with technology & navi, mats & guards (paddle shifters & zenon came with it), bought 9750 extra miles for 18k/yr.

MSRP $39,590

Gross cap $35,663.50

Cap reduction $2414.77 (told me there was a $2k rebate)

Adj cap $33,248.73

Cash our of pocket $850

Residual $19,215.90

MF .00047

Term 39 mo

Pmt $406.00

Thanks again!

3Are there any special lease incentives for Labor Day. I noticed dealers are advertising deals lower than August. Also, is .00047 and .52% still good for a 2010 SV for 15K/39 months. Any idea what the current lease incentive is?

1I was wondering if people on this forum would be able to tell me if what I will be paying for my new Maxima is a "normal" payment. I will be leasing. It is clear to me also that after reading posts on this forum from various people there is tons more I need to learn. I go back to the dealership after work today to either accept the deal or not.

The car is a 2010 maxima sv with the sports pkg and the backup camera. I am putting $1,000 down. Here are the basics.

Payment Details

Term: 39

Base Payment: $350.53

Purchase Option: $19,287

MSRP: $37,230.00

Miles : 15,000

I was just hoping I am not getting gouged as far as my lease. To me it seems like a pretty typical Maxima payment, but know people on this forum would know much better.

Thanks!

33Can you please tell me the money factor and residual for September for a Maxima SV for 39 months and 12K miles.

Jeff G.

33The delaer just emailed me the 2010 Maxima SV money factor of .00028 and residual of 51% for 39 month and 12K miles. Is this accurate based on your current info.

Jeff

332010 Maxima SV with (1)premium pkg, (2) Technology pacakage, (3) mats & (4)splash guards.

MSRP $39,590 (Invoice $36,099)

Agreed upon selling price(gross cap): 35,724

Following items added into CAP:

Acquisition fee: $595

Taxes: $1,188

DMV fees: $274

Doc Fee: $249

Tire Fee: $7.50

First Month: $420

Rebate: ($2,500) - included $500 holiday bonus cash for labor day

Adj cap $35,958

"Sign and Drive" - Zero out of pocket

Residual at 51%: $20,191

MF .00028 ( .67%)

Term 39 months, 12K miles per year (total miles for this lease 39,000)

Pmt $420.00

Car man - I dont think I left much on the table at almost $380 under invoice. There must be some other hidden incentives the dealer is getting on the 2010 leftovers as I had two dealers willing to do it at this number this weekend only.

Jeff

38,515Unfortunately, while the $1,000 cash incentive is available on leases in Florida I don't believe that it is available in Georgia.

There is $1,000 NMAC bonus cash in your area that is available on leases of the 2010 Maxima however.

Car_manHost

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38,515The beauty of the early termination program is that you have the luxury of getting into a new car any time in the fourth quarter.

Car_manHost

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38,515Congratulations on getting your new Maxima. Thanks for taking the time to share the details of your lease with everyone. Enjoy your new ride :shades: .

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

38,515Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 39 month lease of a base 2010 Maxima SV with 15,000 miles per year are .00028 and 50%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers.

As far as cash incentives go, Nissan is currently providing $1,000 NMAC bonus cash on this car in all regions plus an additional $1,000 on leases in select regions.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

38,515NMAC's 12,000 mile per year residual values are 2% higher than its 15k resids.

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