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## Comments

38,515Toyota Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2010 RAV4 Sport V6 AWD with 12,000 miles per year are .00034 and 63%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Tier 1+" credit tier.

At first glance, this residual value looks amazing, but TFS places restrictions upon what options can be residualized. This makes its real world residual values lower than the published percentages appear. It also makes it difficult for individual consumers to work up sample payments on vehicles on their own.

Car_manHost

Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

5606A NOTE ON ADJUSTED MSRP AND DEALER INSTALLED OPTIONS...

Fund providers know that the cost of dealer installed options are grossly inflated. Therefore, in order to minimize their risk, they limit the cost of such options. So, for example, a dealer installed option retailing for $1,000 might be limited to only $700. The $700 is added to the base MSRP (including delivery charge) to produce the adjusted MSRP. And so, you don't realize the full benefit of the higher residual value. Remember, the higher the residual, the lower your payment. So, try to avoid dealer installed options that aren't fully residualized.

John

33Would you give me current MF and residual value of 2010 RAV4 limited V6 or 4-cyl FWD with 15,000 miles per year for 36 mons leasing?

Thanks!

5MSRP = $29,328

Residual = $17,860

Money Factor (Tier 1+) = 0.00034

7% NJ Sales Tax

Acquisition: $650, Doc: $239 - rolled in cap cost

Monthly $297 plus First Month and DMV ($230) due at signing.

Good deal?

262$259.93 per month

36 month lease

12k miles per yr.

$470 down

Price includes Gap insurance

$17,049 residual

.00034 money factor

Took the offer to another dealership and they told me there was no way they could match that deal.

Hope this helps someone else since this forum did help us a great deal.

Thanks!

10I saw your post on edmunds dot com about sending lease proposals to Toyota dealers. I have an autistic child and it is very difficult for me to get to the dealers to spend time haggling with them. Is there any way to help me out with some lease proposals to send out?

It would be great if you could send me an example.

I got ripped off on my last lease and still don't know enough to bargain with the sharks.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Casey

41) I've sent proposal to the dealer, but one of the dealers encouraged me to drive almost two hours to the dealer shop, and took me more than three hours to get out of there. When I got home, I realized that the deal was not what I would expect. They really played games and tried to see how strong minded the customer is. If you are going to the dealer with children, I would rather hire someone to watch them for few hours. It was a nightmare for me and my children.

2) The dealer forced me to sign bunch of paper before leaving the shop, except the final one. They had me sign a paper that I would go back again, will that be something hold against me in the future?

18Please update us on the 2010 Rav 4 V6 LTD lease rates and residuals for 36/12k. Also any update on rebates etc would be great.

4Could you please let me know which insurance company offers GAP insurance? I looked online, but it shows that not all the insurance companies provide that coverage.

132You need to ask them the following questions:

What is the residual (they will give you a % or a dollar amount)

The Money Factor (usually .000xxx)

Actual selling price of the vehicle

then google a lease calculator to make sure all adds up

3First, I like to thank everyone who participates in these forums for providing helpful information, so people like me can become educated about the leasing process. If you head into a dealership without being extremely informed, they will take advantage of you.

Anyway, I just leased the Rav listed in the subject line. From what I can determine the pricing was as follows:

Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) = $31,739.00

Negotiated Price (Capitalized Cost) = $30,914.50(Incl doc, acquisition)

Down payment (Capitalized Cost Reduction) = $1,000.00

Toyota Incentive for recent College Grad = $1,000.00

Worth, after Depreciation (Residual Factor) = 63%

Term (months) = 36

Annual Interest Rate I = 0.816% or MF.00034

Monthly Lease Payments = $264.38

Total Monthly Payment = $287.84 (8.875% added, for taxes) + DMV costs

This is how I approached my negotiations with the dealership. I first went on to Edmunds and used the TMV pricing tool to find out what I should be paying for the vehicle I was interested in. I think the biggest mistake people make when leasing a vehicle, is not realizing that they still have to negotiate the selling price.

I printed out the report and used the rates provided by Car_Man to create a spreadsheet to calculate my lease payments. I took both of these printouts with me to the dealership. I let the dealer make an offer, which of course was completely out of line with what I was expecting to pay. He was looking for $340 with $2,500.00 out of pocket or $440 with nothing down. I pulled out my paperwork and told him if he can't come down to my price I was going to go somewhere that would. He called in his manager to review my numbers. After going over the paperwork, the manager commented on how nice it was to have an educated consumer come into the dealership, yeah right!

My only regret is that I ultimately wound up negotiating based on the monthly payment, so I don't truly know what I paid for the car. However, I was able to plug the numbers I did know into my spreadsheet (i.e. MSRP, Cap Red, Dep and MF and Payment) to figure out what should be the negotiated price. I can only guess at what the Doc and Acquisition fees were.

Hey Car_Man, do you know what the Doc and Acquisition fees are for NYC?

Hope this helps others...

Thanks

Brandon

6140Thanks!

606I'm not Car_man but let me throw in my 2 cents. The Toyota acq fee is $650. And, unless I'm mistaken, I believe that the state of NY limits the dealer doc fee to $75. If so, this means that your selling price is about $30,189.50. My guess is that you could have done better. You should check Edmund's invoice price as well as incentives offered for this vehicle. Also, check overstock at zag.com for competitive low pricing in your area.

One other comment...

Please be advised that NY taxes the sum of the taxable payments which is due at lease inception. As such, they do not tax payments and, therefore, do not collect the tax as payments are received. You didn't provide the model year. Judging by the residual factor, though, I'm guessing a 2011 model year. You should ask the dealer to itemize all charges including the doc fee and acq fee. Your lease should flow as follows...

Adjusted MSRP.............................. 31,739.00

Sell Price....................................... 30,189.50

Amounts CapitalizedDealer Doc Fee.............................. 75.00

Toyota Acq Fee............................. 650.00

NY Sales Tax @8.875%................ 1,104.45

Gross Capitalized Cost.................. 32,018.95

Cap Reduction.............................. 2,000.00 (includes college grad incentive)

Adjusted Capitalized Cost............. 30,018.95

Residual Factor........................... 63%

Residual Value............................ 19,995.57

Money Factor............................. 0.00034

Term......................................... 36

Taxable Monthly Payment........... 264.38

Monthly Payment...................... 295.43

Upfront Lease Charges (itemize!)1st Month's Payment................. 295.43

DMV Fees............................... 250.00 (Guess)

Other Fees.............................. ???

John

3Leased @ Queensboro Toyota

I should have been more clear, my final payment is $287.84. This figure already includes the tax. According to edmunds the TMV price should be $29,900.00. I realize I paid about $350.00 more than that, but I still think it's a good deal, especially when you consider the extra $1000.00 incentive. Also, I wasn't sure exactly what the doc fees were when I ran my numbers, so I over estimated when I presented my target price. I didnt know that NY limits it to $75. This is my first car purchase/lease, so lesson learned. I will have to get'em next time lol...

Using the tax scheme you gave me along with the doc and acquisition fee. I came up with the following breakdown. Also, just a side note this is a 2010 model...

MSRP....................................................$31,739.00

Capitalized Cost

Negotiated Price......................................$30,254.31

Acquisition Fee............................................$650.00

Taxes..........................................................$844.69

Total........................................................$31,749.00

Capitalized Cost Reduction

Down Payment..........................................$1,000.00

Toyota Recent Grad Incentive......................$1,000.00

Total $2,000.00

Residual 63%

Residual value..........................................$19,995.57

Mileage..........................................................12,000

Money Factor...............................................0.00034

Term....................................................................36

Total Monthly Payment $287.84

Upfront Lease Charges

License Fee...............................$195.00

State Inspection...........................$10.00

NYC Use Tax...............................$12.50

Doc Fee.......................................$75.00

First Month Payment...................$287.84

Total...........................................$580.34

606The college grad incentive is subsidized by Toyota and has nothing to do with the sell price. Your numbers are off somewhere. Are you sure about the NY sales tax of 844.69? Here's what I have based on your revised info...

Adjusted MSRP.............................. 31,739.00

Sell Price....................................... 30,254.31

Amounts Capitalized

Toyota Acq Fee............................. 650.00

NY Sales Tax @8.875%.............. 1,103.45Gross Capitalized Cost.................. 32,007.76

Cap Reduction.............................. 2,000.00 (includes college grad incentive)

Adjusted Capitalized Cost............. 30,007.76

Residual Factor........................... 63%

Residual Value............................ 19,995.57

Money Factor............................. 0.00034

Term......................................... 36

Taxable Monthly Payment........... 264.09

Monthly Payment...................... 295.12

Upfront Lease Charges (itemize!)

License Fee............................... 195.00

State Inspection........................... 10.00

NYC Use Tax............................... 12.50

Doc Fee....................................... 75.00

First Month Payment................... 295.12TOTAL.........................................587.62

We disagree on the

bolded items. This is a fairly simple and straight-forward NY lease and I've never been off on my NY calculations. I'm certain that something is wrong and it appears to be your NY sales tax of 844.69. Where you're getting 844.69 is a mystery to me. It could be that the dealer used a sales tax rate different from 8.875%. However, I tried different tax rates and was unsuccessful in producung 844.69. So, only God knows where it came from. This, of course, will cause the monthly payment to be different.If you're inclined, you can check out my post regarding the calculation of NY sales tax at...

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef35de2/982#MSG981

In your case, the sales tax is computed as follows...

Tax on Cap reduction = 0.08875 x 2,000.00 ........................ 177.50

Sales Tax on the sum of the taxable payments @8.875%...... 925.95

TOTAL Sales Tax............................................................... 1,103.45

The taxable payment is computed as follows...

0.00034 x (28,904.31 + 19,995.57) + (28,904.31 + 19,995.57) / 36 = 264.09

And so, the NY payment Sales Tax is....

(0.08875/(1-0.08875)) x 36 x 264.09 = 925.95

Note that the 28,904.31 is the adjustable cap (i.e., 30,007.76 - 1,103.45) corresponding to the taxable payment of 264.09.

When did you finalize the lease? I pray this doesn't happen, but don't be surprised if the dealer calls you claiming that they made a mistake. If so, they should eat the difference. I learned a very long time ago that if you make a mistake in business, you eat your mistake and rightly so.

John

606The 844.69 is not accurate. It appears that it was determined as follows...

term x (payment including tax - taxable payment)

36 x (287.84 - 287.84/1.08875) = 844.56

The 0.13 difference is attributed to rounding error. Anyway, that's not the method NY uses to compute sales tax. Is this a dealership number or is this a number that you calculated? I find it hard to believe that the dealer calculated the 844.69. Also, where is the tax on the $2,000 cap reduction which amounts to 177.50? There is no way that it's included in the 844.69

John

3Here is the issue. When I looked over my lease agreement it just listed my monthly lease payment plus the DMV and Doc fee. I tried to use the figures I did know to determine the exact selling price. After looking through my paperwork a second time, my customer disclosure does list the following tax all capped into the lease:

Cashdown Tax $177.50

Upfront Tax $918.61

I will list all the numbers that I know for sure base on my paperwork and hopefully you can let me know exactly what the sell price was. I will try to do the same on my end and see if come up with the same #

Msrp $31739

Sell price?

Amounts Capitalized

Toyota Acq Fee............................. 650.00

NY Sales Tax 8.875%.............. $1,096.11

Gross Capitalized Cost.................. ?

Cap Reduction.............................. 2,000.00 (includes college grad incentive)

Adjusted Capitalized Cost............. ?

Residual Factor........................... 61.56463%% (based on purchase opt below)

Residual value............................ 19,540.00 (Purchase Option On Customer disclosure)

Money Factor............................. 0.00034

Term......................................... 36

Taxable Monthly Payment........... ?

Monthly Payment...................... 287.84

Upfront Lease Charges (itemize!)

License Fee............................... 195.00

State Inspection........................... 10.00

NYC Use Tax............................... 12.50

Doc Fee....................................... 75.00

First Month Payment................... 287.84

TOTAL.........................................580.34

606Apparently, 19,995.57 isn't the residual value because, if the purchase option is 19,540, then there is no way that the residual could be 19,995.57. I have a feeling that we've been doing lots of guessing. As you know, in order to get credible results, the input data must be spot-on. If you have already signed the lease agreement and have taken delivery of this vehicle, you should have a copy of the lease agreeement. By law, they must disclose the gross and adjusted cap as well as the residual value and sell price which is called the Agreed Upon Value in your lease contract.

Does Toyota charge a purchase option fee? If so, that would also be disclosed in your contract and the 19,540, in all likelihood, would reflect the residual value plus the purchase option fee. Residual factors are always

whole percents(e.g., 61%, 62%, etc). When I divide 19,540 by several whole percents, I always end up with an MSRP that includes change. For example, 19,540/0.64 = 30,531.25 makes no sense because the MSRP is always a whole number. Based on the 30,531.25, I'm able to get a payment of 287.84 which corresponds to auniquesell price of 29,574.17. The problem is that the sales tax is 1,080.22 which is different than your 1,096.11. Therefore, it's unlikely that the 19,540 is the residual value. And so, we now have two unknowns: sell price and residual value.Also, if you're telling me that your monthly payment is exactly 287.84, then your taxes must be about 1,080.20. In order to maintain a payment of 287.84 requires that the residual be increased (decreased) if the sell price is increased (decreased). This suggests that the taxable payment is about 257.46. So, it's highly unlikely that the taxes amount to 1096.11. Something obviously isn't right.

Did you have any dealer installed options because dealer installed options are usually not fully residualized. Another problem with TFS is that they don't residualize the destination charge or floor mats and so these are deducted from the MSRP. That, when added to the cost of residualized dealer installed options results in what is known as the

Adjusted MSRP. This, when multiplied by the residual factor, yields the residual value.I suggest that you check your lease contract. If you haven't taken delivery or signed your lease agreeement, I would recommend asking the dealer for their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document that will tell you everything and then some and will eliminate a lot of guess work.

If you have the lease contract or can secure the dealer's lease worksheet, I'll be happy to evaluate them if you like. Simply email them to me at...

diffeq@zoominternet.net

John

4I am trying to help my parents to lease a 2010 Rav4 AWD Ltd. with evp #2.

They do not know much about the whole leasing process so am sure the dealer will have a field day if they just walk in uninformed.

MSRP is $32kish for the car they saw.

What should they expect to pay?

Located in NJ so 7% sales tax.

They are willing to put up to $2k for all sign off fees including tax etc.

I am assuming they should be able to get under $300/month given what I have read on this forum.

Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

6606I'm pretty sure that Toyota does not fully residualize the MSRP as they deduct the destination charge and the charge for floor mats. Increased residual, all else constant, means lower payments.

John

42010 Rav 4 LTD V6 4x4 with val pack#2 and some other addons.

MSRP $32568

options : BC,QZ, TO, B3, CF, P7 (XM satellite radio kit )

Cap. cost $ 29945.14

aquisition fee $650

Doc $299

Taxes $852.52

All other fees(NJ reg and title) $421

Residual $19260

Money factor .00020

36 mo. / 12000 miles per year

$1000 out of pocket $336 per month ( tax incl.)

what do you guys think?

92) Should I expect the deals to get better in October (sell price at $1K or $2K below invoice) due to oversupply? The 2011 Rav4s are now at the dealers, and there are around a 1,000 2010 Rav4s within 50 miles of Boston according to Autotrader.com.

3041I leased on September , 2 in Staten Island Toyota 2010 Rav 4 LTD V6 4x4 with val pack 1 , camera etc.

Out of pocket $2184, monthly payment $345( incl tax) , residual $19184.

Where did you get this deal in NJ?

1