Prius Vs Camry

rksagi

Hi,
I want to know which one is better , Prius or Camry?
Prius gives better milage but Camry is larger, roomier and more importantly has lots of power compare to Prius. But with lots of hype, craze about Prius, I am not able to decide which one I want to buy. The cost would be same for both of the cars I think. Please suggest. Appreciate your feed back.

stevedebi

"I want to know which one is better , Prius or Camry? "

Better at what? MPG = Prius advantage, Room, MSRP, and larger family = Camry.

If you don't need the extra room, go for the Prius.

If you have a family and need more space, buy the Camry.

However, I think you may find that the Camry is a lot cheaper, if you get the LE; the Prius tends to be 'harder to find" in the lower trim levels, so you end up at the 26K+ range, whereas the Camry can usually be found at discounted prices. Bang for the buck, short term (purchase only) definitely goes to the Camry.

It also depends upon how much you drive; if you don't put a lot of miles on the vehcile, the MPG advantage of the Prius is not as important.

Good luck on your purchase!

pat

Do you still have to order a Prius or they on the lots these days? Just wondering, because that might be something that rksagi might want to consider as well.

mi_sat

Should also consider that, starting in 2006, there's a $3,150 tax credit (dollar for dollar reduction) -- at least for a short period of time. (The tax credit burns off after manufacturer sells a certain number of hybrid vehicles.) That can help defray the premium of the Prius.

kdhspyder

At present all the Prius' are 'on order' with the lead time running 6 weeks to 3 months depending on the specific dealership you speak with. As the prior poster mentioned be honest with youself on what is important in your decision.
Roomieness - family ( Camry ) .. self ( Prius )
Performance - same speed in 0-60 test ( ~ 12 sec )
Features - Basic 4 wheels ( Camry ) more upscale ( Prius )
Net Purchase Price - Under $20K ( Camry ) $22-27K ( Prius )
Tax advantage - Zero ( Camry ) vs ~$600 this yr or ~$3000 next yr ( Prius )
Coolness factor - Zero ( Camry ) vs all you want ( Prius )
Concern for doing what's right environmentally - all Prius
Dependability & Reliability - Take care of whichever you choose and there's no reason you shouldnt drive either one 200K miles or more.
Cost of ownership - Maintenance, fuel, resale: TBD but probably favors the Prius over 6-10 yrs if the $3000 Tax Credit cancels most of the original price premium.

I've owned 4 Camry's since 1990 - presently a Camry, an MR2 & a Highlander plus a Celica by my daughter and a Supra and Tacoma by my son . I think the Camry is the best car on the road but my next car will likely be a Prius ( or maybe Hybrid Camry next yr ).

If the original purchase price is of utmost concern get a 2-3 yr old Certified Used Vehicle. With a 15 yr life expectancy or more you will be looking for a new vehicle well before your present one tires of you and you will normally save a bunch of money.

FWIW

kdhspyder

dumbgirl

what's the deal with this ordering stuff? Is there really that high of a demand on the Prius? I certainly don't see that many out on the roads in Ohio. Why can't they be stocked at a dealer like any other car?

jrock65

HID on Prius
No HID on Camry hybrid

mk004

For two people the Prius is actually roomier in the back, especially in legroom, than even the 07 Camry. Front seat headroom is greater in the Prius. Add to that the fact that the Prius is a hatchback, and you have much more versatility.

bing8

I have a Camry Hybrid on order and was stunned to recently learn that no Tachometer is available. I assumed it would be standard. My guess is that the rpms are very high at 70mph (freeway speeds)or they would have included a tach. Makes me wonder if they are trying to hide something...like very high rpms at highway speeds thus using more fuel than necessary. The EPA mpg is 38 highway and 40 city according to the road test article.

As I understand it, the Ford Escape Hybrid (Toyota technology and Ford gas engine)has tach and rpms are very high at highway speeds. My guess is that the SVT just will not work in reducing rpms at highway speeds like the 6spd auto. (now in the new Camry V6) Why Toyota did not place the 6 speed auto transmission in the Camry Hybrid or the standard 4 cyl Camry is puzzling.
Thanks
Bing

parnola

Toyota uses a continuously variable transmission (CVT) in the Camry Hybrid (and Prius) to maximize fuel efficiency. Honda took the same approach with their Civic Hybrid. Since the transmission is CVT, there is little need for a tachometer, as you'd see it climb to a specific RPM and stay there (until the max gear ratio is reach, at which time it would climb)

beantown

For two people the Prius is actually roomier in the back, especially in legroom, than even the 07 Camry.

Not true. According to toyota.com, the Camry blows it away in shoulder (2.5 inches in front; almost 4 inches in back) and hip room (3.5 in front; 2.5 in back); and the difference in legroom is hardly measurable (.2 in front and .3 in back). The Camry has superior rear headroom as well. Given those numbers, I'd rather be a passenger in the Camry.

bing8

Parnola,
In July I suggested that the CVT transmission may not be as efficient and wished Camry Hybrid CVT's would be replaced with 5 or 6 speed auto's. (I now own a Camry Hybrid and it does not seem as efficient on mileage in highway driving...less than 34 (Rating 38hwy/40city) at 75MPH). I say the 6 speed 4 cyl camry is equal or better in highway (real) mileage than the Camry Hybrid.

Motor Trend (May='07 issue) has just compared the CVT to the 4 speed auto yet Identical engine Altimas' in acceleration and mileage. The standard according to their test bettered the CVT in mileage by 2.2 mpg's (35.4 4spd to 33.2 CVT) in their Motor Trend 280 mile loop. The acceleration was a little quicker in the CVT car but as far as highway mileage...the CVT is less efficient than the standard 4 speed auto in this test.
By the way I have my Camry Hybrid for sale.

Thank you
Bing

lzc

First, Camry doesn't offer a 6-speed transmission in its 4-cyl engine models. I'm not sure why Toyota chose CVTs for its hybrids. It's a good question.

As to mileage, the mileage spread between hybrid and ICE cars has always been greatest in stop and go driving, 16 mpg advantage versus 5 mpg in highway driving for Camry.

At 70 mph I've had no trouble achieving at least 38 mpg in highway driving.

I assume you've other complaints besides gas mileage to justify selling such a new car. Good luck.

neil0311

Everyone is discussing cost of ownership and mpg, but here is one thing that you have to think about... do you want to drive around in a car that looks like the Prius? I wouldn't. Driving a Prius says something about you. Is that what you want to project?

I own a V6 Camry because I drive mainly hwy miles, but even if my driving patterns changed, and I was able to justify and get payback from a hybrid vehicle, I sure wouldn't buy a Prius. The Camry is larger and is a normal car that just happens to be available in a hybrid version. Same goes for Civic, Accord, Altima, Highlander, and others.

The Prius is just plain ugly and not very practical vehicle for most people. Just some things to consider.

lzc

>>Driving a Prius says something about you.

And just what is that?

Given the Prius' outstanding reliability record, it may say something about the buyer's smarts in choosing a largely trouble-free car.

Or, it may say that the buyer wants to reduce the money he sends via gasoline purchases to countries that hate us and subsidize
terrorism.

Oh, last month almost 20,000 people bought a Prius, a sign I guess that "ugly" has become cool. LOL

pathstar1

I think the car just looks good. I know some think it's ugly. There is, apparently, no accounting for taste. I think it looks very good.

I do want to be seen driving around in a Prius. It sends a message: "I am careful and thoughtful so I bought this car and I DO care about the environment." Rather than "I'm driving this (insert make and model of performance car, SUV, Minivan, or PU here) because I don't care about you and the environment. I have a right to excessive consumption.

As far as practical, the Prius body design is one of the most efficient I've seen. Seats four in fine comfort, five makes the three in the rear a little pinched side to side. Lots of legroom though. Prius will carry as much or more than most SUVs re cargo. It will carry 14' long items. Please advise why you think this isn't practical.

neil0311

I think folks assumes a false premise. You incorrectly assume that driving a Prius = "I care about the environment" and NOT driving a Prius = "I don't give a crap". Neither is necessarily correct, although for some individuals it may be true. Let's not even discuss the making and disposing of the hybrid batteries and the associated impact on the environment.

I drive almost 90% hwy miles, so for me, a hybrid is a complete waste. My car gets 29 - 31 on the hwy and also provides me comfortable, powerful, and reliable transportation that doesn't look like someting from Lost in Space. I have a wife and 3 kids, so comfort and interior room is more than just an academic point. I'm not against hybrids generally, if they make sense. Many people who buy a hybrid do so without any need to. If you drive in low speed stop-and-go traffic, then a hybrid is great. If you drive in moderate to high speed traffic on the hwy, then it's a complete waste.

This smug political nonesense that somehow anyone who doesn't drive a Prius doesn't care and is just a polluting cretan is just crap. If you want to drive a Prius, do so, but please don't make false assumptions about my or others motivation.

pathstar1

Please don't take my postings personally. I'm just trying to "debate" the issues, correct misinformation, and find out others attitudes.
I'm not making any assumptions, but, like it or not, those assumptions I posted are the way it's going. The bandwagon is officially in motion, and the news reports over the last three or four weeks are giving momentum. As an aside I'm chuckling over, if one of the super volcanoes in the world (such as Yellowstone) erupt, "global warming" will go away big time. There are several due or overdue, based on previous cycle times. Of course we can't go on assuming that will happen, but it's humorous to consider anyway.

Owner reported Prius highway mileage is higher that you apparently think. Most get at least 45, some above 50. It's short trips that mainly kill mileage in the Prius, less than 5 miles.

Just for entertainment, you should go to a Toyota dealer and look at a Prius. I think you will be surprised at how roomy it is inside. Especially the rear seat room. From the outside it looks like a small car - like a Corolla. Once you are sitting inside you think it's a Camry. At least that was my impression, backed up by the spec. sheets. I have a spreadsheet I did comparing all four hybrids I'm looking at, Prius, Camry, Civic, and Altima. It's metric, with Canadian pricing, but I'm willing to share it if anyone wants it. You can modify it as you like. It's done in "Open Office".
I still like the Prius as it's in the lead mileage and environment wise.

The battery, BTW, is not an environmental disaster like certain stories on the Internet and in the news contend. It's fully recyclable. Nickle is easily reused. The electrolyte is just potassium hydroxide with a little sodium hydroxide as well. Easily dealt with. Much more benign than lead acid batteries. The mines have been disaster areas in the past, but have been cleaned up emission wise. Blaming the "deserts" they created on Toyota or Prius as certain Internet postings and news reports have done, is just silly, however. When that occurred Toyota was just starting to make cars, was never involved in the mines, and hybrids were 30 years from even being thought of. Current nickle production is no worse than steel or other metal refining operations.

joecarnut

Prius will carry as much or more than most SUVs re cargo

No offense intended, but you're kidding aren't you?

It's a nice little car, but don't buy it for cargo. Buy it so you can feel good about not polluting the environment because you are paying a premium to get the better mileage. And thats if you know how to drive them to get that mpg.

Out here in California they are driving 85+ mph in the carpool lanes when they have a sticker on them.

So now is a good time to buy one as they are in less demand due to not being able to get a sticker anymore as well as the reduced tax credit.
What is Toyota doing at the moment, super low financing to entice buyers to buy a Prius?

But put four people in one with four suitcases and then tell us how you like the cargo room.

Cheers!

kyrpto

With gasoline above $3.00 a gal in many areas again, hybrid sales are increasing.
With most every auto manurfator announcing hybrids are coming, Toyota will remain the "big dog" in this market segment for a long time.

pathstar1

Not kidding. I have a 2001 Pathfinder, and the current Prius can carry at least as much cargo, probably more. Interior size is one thing, but the ability to get large items in and out is entirely another thing. The Pathfinder "necks down" at the doors and hatch, limiting the size of things it will carry. Full size SUVs are, of course, roomier. But they are gas hogs big time! Bigger is not better. Bigger is just bigger.

mchristin

I would love to see your spreadsheet comparing the hybrids. I am new to these forums, so not sure--do you just provide the spreadsheet here or do I need to give you my e-mail address? Thanks

pathstar1

It's a little old now. All the prices have changed, and the new model year cars are here. Simple enough to do your own, though. I used "Openoffice" (search for it - it's free). Then go to each automaker's web site and display the specifications so you can then enter them into a spreadsheet.

workwork

I would say that this whole "IT SAYS THIS ABOUT YOU" thing is because Prius drivers feel that the car is good enough to overcome its styling and that they get comfort from waving to other Prius drivers ect. which is annoying because other people see that as a put down... "LOOK AT US, YOU ARE STUPID."

Heres my quick assessment:
If you want a great way to save money and gas then the Prius is the best option.
The Prius has poor visibility out the back window.
The acceleration is poor and the car generally will not provide power at an idle.

The Camery is not as economical but it probably is a very nice car.
I have driven a 2000 Camery, very nice car.. love it.

Older Prius: I have also driven the 2002 model, generally you need to give it a 3/4+ push down on the pedal whenever you accelerate. Also the brakes are hard to get used to at first. My Dad loves it but I am never confident in its ability to accelerate when I REALLY need it: on a bad merge.
The best solution: If you REALLY care about the environment get a diesel car and convert it to run on vegetable oil. So if you claim to LOVE the environment this is probably the best thing you can do to show it.

lzc

It sounds to me like some people suffer from Prius Envy.
Yep, I don't doubt that some Prius owners can come across as smug, like some ex-smokers.

Myself, I prefer and bought a Camry hybrid. It has all the virtue of a regular Camry, but with better mileage. I found the seating of the Prius low and the freeway handling less secure in windy conditions, among other shortcomings.

caaz

Better mileage? Perhaps. Look at my several posts in camry mpg I get 40mpg @ 60 or 65.....36-37@70....33-35@75 and 31-31@80pmh...And im being honest . I do a trip twice a week Sundaynite from Phoenix to So Cal And back again each Thursday. I try it at different speeds just to challenge the car to see what it will do. Incidentally, doing this adds 60,000miles per year to my car. after 3 years almost getting the same mpg highway as the hybrids, if you add in the 26k sticker to hybrids as opposed to 18,500 for a Camry LE here in so cal. Plus after 3 yrs 3500.00 for a battery, i see an almost 10,000.00 differnce by keeping a regular camry over the hybrid. The car i just sold when i went into the camry was an 04 civiv hybrid, which @ 80mph always got me abouit 42-43mpg. But the noise level in a civic..or Prius.. as compared too the camry was amazing. I love the camry's serene isolated ride, makes my phone calls and books on tape enjoyable..other wise thats 6 hrs each trip of wind noise and boredom.

Later
Caaz

lzc

With a hybrid's mileage advantage being mostly in city driving, if my driving was like yours I wouldn't buy a hybrid either.

As to the price difference, well, you're comparing apples to oranges. The base LE is hardly equipped the way a hybrid is. If one wants the upgrades that come with the hybrid (2007 model), the price spread is about $1600, if I remember correctly.

Even if one doesn't think much of the upgrades, I received a $2600 credit on my federal taxes and $1500 off my state of Oregon taxes. So, the price spread was virtually nothing, and I did want some of those extra features.

ace27

Keep in mind that most of the new camrys are made in the American plant in Georgetown, Kentucky. However, the prius' are made in Japan.

I have had a friend who bought a 2007 camry made here and is already having engine troubles and some materials falling apart.

My 1995 camry (made in japan) is at 238,000 miles and still running.

We must face the fact that Japanese quality is superior. So, if you want a car that will last you longer without giving you any problems, the prius is the way to go.

Unless, you are lucky enough to get one of the few new camrys made in Japan.

mcdawgg

I do not agree. I have had USA built Toyotas that have been perfect for well over 100,000 miles. On the other hand, my one that was produced in Japan had several issues that, although minor (rattles and squeaks), were still annoying to have to go back and have corrected.

An '07 Camry with engine problems? Rare, very very rare. You'll be fine with either. By the way, Toyota plans to produce the Prius in the USA in the next few years.

kingfans1

My 2006 Camry le V6 ( built in KY ). 166,000 miles. The car run like new, no problems with the engine.

avucarguy

To you guys out there who like to put the Prius down, try driving one for a day. I drive my 07 Prius daily with 3 children in the back, two in car seats. As for room, I bought a 42" LCD TV and transport it from my house in the original box it came with. On another trip I carried a Sears full size water softener in its box + 2 40lbs salt bags + a few bags of items I bought from Sears with my 1 son in the rear in his car seat9ONLY 1 rear seat was folded) and my wife in the front with me without a problem. I also used the Prius to transport my 21" push mower back and forth between my beach and regular house with five of us in the car every week during the summer before I bought the second lawn mower.
As for looks, I did not buy the car for it's good looks(the car looks nerdy), but the gas mileage and the versatility. I average 45-47 mpg with the car over 60,000 miles. Before buying the Prius, I also looked at the Civic, Accord, and Camry hybrid. But the trunk space on these cars were terrible and the rear seats do not fold down due to the hybrid design.
I also have an 07 Maxima which is at least the size of the Camry, the rear seating area is about maybe 5" wider than the Prius, which does not seem to make much of a difference to my children in the back. But I would not be able to haul all the stuff I do in the Prius. Also, I can only get about 24-26 mpg on my Maxima with Premium fuel.

gtgtcobra

I agree that the Prius is probably a much better built car than the Camry because it's built 100% in Japan, but the Prius is also a death trap when compared with the Camry. The Camry is much bigger and much safer than the Prius. I saw the Prius up front at the Toyota dealership the other day and I love its interior. It definitely looks much better built than the American built Camry. Too bad that it's too small. I would have purchased the Prius over the Camry any day if it were as big as the Camry.

mcdawgg

I agree that the Prius is probably a much better built car than the Camry because it's built 100% in Japan

I disagree. Being assembled in Japan does NOT guarantee anything. The overall engineering (design) of the car is what matters, not where assembled. I had a few rattles etc. from a Rav assembled in Japan, but I have a Camry assembled in Kentucky with 85% North American produced parts that has NO problems at all.

Of all my Toyotas, most were built in the USA or Canada and I can say that USA or Canada built cars were great over the long run (100,000+ miles).

"USA" built is no problem, as long as the overall design is good. By the way, the Prius is going to be built in the USA when the factory is completed.

gtgtcobra

"By the way, the Prius is going to be built in the USA when the factory is completed."

God help us all if the Prius is going to be built here in the USA. Toyota will have more fit and finish and quality issues with the Prius like they do with the Camry if they start building it here in the USA.

mcdawgg

Disagree. I've been in manufacturing since college. The quality of the design is the most important thing. If this is good, then the assembly will be very easy and will be tough to screw up. If the design is not good, then the assembly will be harder, and you will get more fit and finish problems. I know for a fact that USA and Canadian workers can build cars that are just as good as Japan build. I have had Toyotas built in the USA and Canada that have been perfect for over 100,000 miles. Parts and materials are the same (or 99% the same) for the Japan vs. Kentucky built Camrys. They are built with the same specs, same everything - it wouldn't make any sense to have different specs, etc. It seems that Toyota over-engineered the Prius vs. the Camry, which is why the Prius seems to have no fit/finish issues. However, my 2010 Camry has no problems that I can find yet. Maybe not quite 100% perfect interior panel alignment, but this is not assembly problem, it is design, and it will not affect the long-term reliability of my car, nor does it create any problems, and most people don't notice it.

smarty666

that might be the case for you but it has not been my experience over the years with getting japanese vehicles; the three vehicles that were completely assembled in Japan and shipped over had absolutely no quality, fit and finish, noise, or mechanical/technical issues whatsoever

the two japanese vehicles made and assembled in the US, I have nothing but problems with fit and finish issues, rattles/squeaks, mechanical and technical problems so I'm sorry but my experience has shown that the American assembly plants are not as efficient and do not have the same amount of quality control that the Japanese plants do

now, that is not to say you can't get a car from Japan that has some issues in it but on average, your chances are better of not getting a car with (fit/finish, rattles/squeaks, mechanical/technical glitches,etc) if it was assembled and built in Japan than if it was primarily built and assembled at a US plant

mcdawgg

So, in other words, there is no conclusive evidence that I know of that says Japan vs. USA built is better. My experience is USA was better, yours is Japan was better. The Rav I had that was built in Japan had lots of rattles, etc. All were fixed under warranty, but still. Who is right? Unknown.

gtgtcobra

I can tell you one thing. My family currently owns a 98 Camry and I used to own a 97 Camry CE. I sold my 97 Camry back in 2000, but mine ALSO had fit and finish and quality issues. My family still owns the 98 Camry and it too has fit and finish issues and rattles and it only has 54,000 original miles on it. Both of these vehicles were built here in the USA in Kentucky. Before my family owned the 98 Camry, they owned a 1982 Toyota Celica that was purchased brand new which was 100% built in Japan. The 100% Japanese built 1982 Celica was an excellent car. We never had any fit and finish or any quality problems with the Celica during the entire 16 years that we owned it. It had over 170,000+ miles before we gave it away to another member of our family. They owned it and drove it for another 2 years until it was 19 years old and they traded it in for another vehicle. When they traded it in the 1982 Celica was still driveable and it had over 180,000+ miles on it. The only thing wrong with the car was that it had rust on the lower panels and on the floor boards from all the salt and from the 19 winters that it went thru up here in the northeast. Other than that, everything on the vehicle was working and the car was running like brand new.

But on the other hand, the 1998 Camry that my family still drives and owns has all sorts of rattling and fit and finish issues that the 1982 Celica didn't have. Can you tell me WHY that is so?
WHY didn't the 1982 Celica have any fit and finish and quality issues during the entire 19 years of ownership? And WHY does the 1998 Camry have fit and finish and quality issues? And WHY did my 1997 Camry also have fit and finish and quality issues too? Is it because maybe when they were built here in the USA in Kentucky that the manufacturing process or the materials were not up to par like the materials and like the manufacturing process that they use in Japan for the same exact same vehicles? There HAS to be a legitimate reason WHY this occurs. There is NO WAY that American built Toyotas are better or equal quality as the Toyotas that are 100% built in Japan. That's an big overstatement. American built Toyotas are not as well built and are not as good quality as the ones that are built 100% in Japan. There is something that is NOT done here with the American built Toyota vehicles that are done with the ones that are built 100% in Japan. What it is I don't know? I am hoping that someone can chime in on this issue. What is the difference between a 100% Japanese built Toyota and a 100% American built Toyota? If we can find this out then we will also find out WHY the American built Toyota vehicles lack the quality that the Japanese built ones have. Maybe someone in here knows the answer to this.

mcdawgg

Why? I've said it is design. You cannot blame everything on assembly of the car or build of the parts, no matter where it was done. If the engineering is done very well, you will not have (as many or no) problems. Sorry, my experience in manufacturing (not auto, but still design and assembly of other things) plus my experience with Toyotas both say that USA LABOR DOES build good cars, or widgets, etc. Toyota uses the same specs, materials, and processes as they do in Japan to build cars here, or anywhere. Why would they do different? They don't, it is the same. If they were different, costs would be different (ie more expensive to have different part specs, different designs, etc) There are a very few differences, but in general they are the same car, no matter where built. Right now, it is much more expensive to import from Japan vs. build in the USA due to the currency. If anything, they would want to cut costs for Japan built (but they don't). It's all in the engineering.

The rattles in the early 2007 Camrys? Guess what, most of the TSBs that came out are for BOTH Japan built AND USA built Camrys - DESIGN. For example, the dash rattle.

gtgtcobra

Okay, I do agree with you somewhat about the design flaws causing quality issues. Let me ask you another question regarding design then:

If the Camry that is built 100% in Japan and is designed 100% the same way as the 100% American built Camry, then HOW can the Japan built Camry be better quality than the American built Camry? Remember that the design is exactly the same for BOTH the 100% American built Camry and ALSO for the 100% Japanese built Camry. If both cars have the same exact design, WHY does the American built Camry have fit and finish and quality issues when the Japanese built Camry doesn't? That's what we need to find out here. Do you know the answer to this?

hackattack5

"If the Camry that is built 100% in Japan and is designed 100% the same way as the 100% American built Camry, then HOW can the Japan built Camry be better quality than the American built Camry?"

How about volume? How many camry's to they push out the door everyday? I think Toyota is having the same issue as GM has had for years. They are too big to manage. Just think of some of the problems they could be having like parts that are good but not great from there suppliers. Do they shut down the whole line until they get good parts in or do they RUN. This might be the difference in the 2 countries because I would bet in the USA the answer is RUN because the boss wants his bonus for cars out the door.

mcdawgg

Where are you seeing that Japan built Camrys do not have fit and finish issues? Also, Japan built Camrys are RARE, not a good sampling. Some of the rattle TSBs for early 2007-2008 Camrys are for both USA and Japan built, meaning it is design. And what fit and finish issues do are you talking about for the USA built Camry? I have two - a 2007 and a 2010. NO problems with fit/finish (if fit/finish is defined as factory assembly issues).

gtgtcobra

"How about volume? How many camry's to they push out the door everyday? I think Toyota is having the same issue as GM has had for years. They are too big to manage. Just think of some of the problems they could be having like parts that are good but not great from there suppliers. Do they shut down the whole line until they get good parts in or do they RUN. This might be the difference in the 2 countries because I would bet in the USA the answer is RUN because the boss wants his bonus for cars out the door."

Back in the "good old days" during the mid and late 1970's and early 1980's Toyota still had a huge production volume when they were still manufacturing their vehicles in Japan, but their cars were still top notch vehicles and they were flawless without any quality issues. I used to own a 1982 Toyota Celica GT and a 1985 Honda Civic Hatchback S and BOTH vehicles were flawless vehicles that were built 100% in Japan. I also knew many others who owned Toyotas and Hondas back then that were manufactured in Japan and all of their vehicles were flawless too.
I understand what you are saying about the quality going down when volume goes up, but that didn't happen during the mid and late 1970's and early 1980's when 100% of the Toyota vehicles were still being built in Japan. The very high production volume that Toyota had back then in those good old days didn't cause the vehicle quality to go down.

High production volume shouldn't be an excuse to building lower quality vehicles. That excuse ONLY occurs here in the USA because auto production workers and management do NOT care about building a car the "right way" with the highest quality like the Japanese do in Japan. It's proven that Toyota built excellent quality vehicles in Japan during the mid and late 1970's and during the early 1980's even when they had a very high production volume when they were still manufacturing all of their vehicles in Japan. If the sameuto manufacturing plant that's currently in the USA today was to be placed in Japan with Japanese workers all the cars would be built the right way and they would be flawless. Let's face it, American workers don't pay attention to l the detail during the assembly and manufacturing process when they build an automobile. They would rather sit on their fat asses and avoid being picky about manufacturing details and fit and finish and quality issues. But the Japanese in Japan take the time to correct and fix these issues before the vehicle leaves the factory. That's why Japanese built cars are much better than the American built Japanese cars.

smarty666

agreed...

smarty666

that might be true to a point when your talking about high volume vehicles like the Camry or Accord but I have a Acura TL and Nissan Maxima, both of which are made and assembled in the US and they are no where near as high in volume sold as the Camry is and I've had fit/finish, interior squeaks/rattles, and mechanical/technical problems with both cars since delivery to me directly from the factory!

On the other hand, the Acura TSX, Lexus ES350, and Infiniti FX35 I had, which all were made in Japan, I had absolutely no problem with them; but as mcdawgg pointed out, he had gotten a vehicle from Japan which he had rattle problems with so there is no guarantee whether you get a car from Japan or one made here in the US that it won't have fit/finish, interior squeaks/rattles, or mechanical/technical issues

I personally think your chances of getting one problem free are greater if it comes from Japan but others who have had the opposite experience will tell you the complete opposite so there is no way to know for sure, as mcdawgg has pointed out so you have to go by what your own personal experience has been!

What I've tried to do over the years is if I hear a rattle or noise in the car I'm test driving I automatically removing it from consideration because that is usually a good indication you'll get one with a problem in it; I'm tired of getting cars and spending my time trying to track down and fix quality issues from the factory that cause these noises and make me go crazy and these japanese cars aren't cheap to be dealing with this crap!!

mcdawgg

And I've said before a rattle doesn't mean it was a bad assembly. Look at the dash rattle TSB for early 2007 Camrys - BOTH USA and JAPAN. That means one thing - DESIGN, not assembly.

smarty666

very true in certain cirumstances; if their is a TSB on a noise/rattle then your right, it is a design flaw in the product

unfortunately for me, the noises and rattles I have had have not been the result of a TSB and I've test driven the exact same car at the dealership and did not hear the noises reproduced in another model of the same car so mine have been an assembly/quality issue and not the result of a design flaw

boo for me!!!!