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Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford Taurus vs Chevrolet Impala



  • and we're going to have low tire pressure sensors because people don't check their tire pressure.

    I actually LIKE this idea (though not as a federal mandate). It's much easier to check your tire pressure on a routine basis this way.

    Now if they'd make it so I could push a button to air up the tires . . . :D
  • scbobscbob Posts: 167
    Had a 2003 Camry XLE V6 and traded up to an Azera at 67,000 miles. Just didn't like the Avalon inside or out and hard to get ESC. Also, dealer offered very little off on a Limited and very little for my car compared to Hyundai.
    The current styling of Toyota Avalon and Lexus ES and GS just does not appeal to me.
    My Camry was excellent, but have a friend who had a 2003 Camry SE-problems with a part on the engine melting, sunroof "struts" breaking, etc. at about 40,000 miles and Toyota would not repair any of it. He got an Acura (3rd one).
    Check out Consumer Reports annual car issue, esp. the reliability of the Lexus GS.
    Will admit that when Toyota realized it was losing quality a year or two ago, they did slow down the assembly lines and increase inspections.
    Toyota has made great cars and comparively speaking still does, but the competition is heating up.
  • scbobscbob Posts: 167
    I have TPMS on my wife's RAV4 and appreciate it. However, I do not believe it actually measures it accurately to within one or two pounds as we should. That's why I still check mine periodically.
    Also, if the tires are rotated, it cancels the TPMS and you have to re-set it.
    Also, Fix-A-Flat will destroy the TPMS sensors.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    suggest a high degree of correlation between 'newness' of product lines, production numbers - and any perceived (or real) incidence of problems. Using Toyota as the 'fall guy', it must also be noted that every vehicle starting all the way up at FS PU trucks and only excluding the Mexican built Corolla are new and reengineered vehicles since 2005- let 'Detroit' try that and we would have bodies in the streets - literally.
  • scbobscbob Posts: 167
    Sorry, I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say.
  • keitha3keitha3 Posts: 124
    Even though my Accord has only 25K on it, I'll be buying a new car in the next year. The Accord will go to my youngest daughter who, by then, will have her license.

    I've been all over the place researching what car to get. Should I get a "fun" car like the Infiniti G35, a totally practical car like one of the hybrids, or one that will suit the family well with comfort for long trips.

    I had never considered Hyundai products, but, due to a recent thread, went to test the Sonata, which I wasn't a big fan of, especially due to its interior design. However, the Azera piqued my interest. Liked the interior/exterior design much better. Went for a test drive and it's moved to the top of my list for a variety of reasons. It has room, is comfortable, has all the amenities that I might want, is reliable (so far in its early history), has the warranty, has plenty of power, and looks to my eyes to be quite attractive, especially with the black exterior/tan leather interior.

    The price is amazing. The dealer, knowing that I wouldn't be buying for a while, tried to tempt me with the Limited for about 23K, including destination, but not tax/license.

    When I look at other cars, for instance the Avalon or new Accord, I couldn't get nearly the car for that same amount. It's not ever close. Money isn't my only consideration, but, geez, I liked the ride in the Azera more than the Accord or the Avalon. It's almost a no brainer for me.

    The downsides were that the Azera seemed to recognize road irregularities more than even my present Accord. Hopefully, the 2008's will address this issue. I don't really want navigation or a moonroof, so the fact that these aren't incorporated into the car doesn't really bother me. Moonroofs are an option and navigation soon will be. I'd also like a CD changer rather than a single disc unit, but, at the price of the option, wouldn't do it, in that I listen primarily to talk radio.

    No doubt, my mind could waiver quite a bit as I get closer to actually buying, but, for now, the Azera heads my list. This from someone who wouldn't even consider a Hyundai product a few months ago.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    rather simple, pretty much every vehicle you find on Toyota/Lexus lots are or were new designs no later than 2005, primarily to the line wide adoption of the 2GR drivetrain while those "American" mfgrs are still using 10-50 year old drivetrain vintages. Take the Lucerne, for example, both the vintage 3.8 or even the slightly more current, Northstar are both established designs and logically would have fewer 'teething' problems. Don't
    believe this to truly be the case in the specific example of the Toyota V6, but this is an engine which might possibly the best V6 out there at any price is a good example of what can be done with some R&D money - something Toyota has plenty of, and is seriously in short supply over at Ford/GM/Chrysler.
  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
    Re 801: "The downsides were that the Azera seemed to recognize road irregularities more".

    That, is a diplomatic way of saying Azera has a lousy and noisy suspension system, which is my biggest compliant. Other than that, you'll be hard pressed to find the combination of features, warranty and price from ANY manufacturer, especially Honda/Toyota.
  • keitha3keitha3 Posts: 124
    Yes, I was being diplomatic. :)

    But I was surprised. On my test drive, it was like it was braille reading the road. Other than that, it seems so well thought out.

    Do you know if they're doing anything to correct the problem?
  • dborthdborth Posts: 474
    Re 804: The following is from a recent press release for '08 Azera. See below (suspension)


    · 17-inch alloy wheels now standard on GLS
    · Bodycolor rocker panels added to GLS
    · GLS Premium Package (includes leather heated front seats and sunroof)
    · Side mirror turn signal indicators standard on all Limited models
    · Power sunroof standard on all Limited models
    · Infinity® audio system standard on all Limited models
    · LG navigation system available on Limited trim level
    · Suspension enhanced for improved ride and handling
    · Azera SE discontinued
  • keitha3keitha3 Posts: 124
    Hey, thanks.

    Sounds good. Hopefully, it will live up to expectations. Like the part about improved handling as well, although I would expect it to be slight.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    as an Avalon Touring owner, it is the 'Buick' soft (and sloppy) suspension that would keep me from considering the Azera. It is like Hyundai was trying to outdo the Buicks except, of course, that even the new Buicks don't drive like the Buicks of the past. A mistake on Hyundai's part not to offer a 'Touring' or 'sports' trim.
  • I do not consider the Azera to have a "sloppy" suspension, ESPECIALLY compared to an Avalon. Have you guys read the reviews of these cars? Azera had faster slalom speed than Avalon. I will try to find the numbers and post them.

    While Azera isn't a sports sedan, it definately is not a Buick. And this is coming from someone who is NOT in the Buick demographic (I am a 33 year old Male).
  • Avalon vs. Azera... 600-foot slalom Azera 63.8MPH, Avalon 61.9 MPH (Motor Trend)

    Also from their test:

    And when they do, our Touring-edition (more firmly suspended) Avalon is a better sport(ish) sedan than you'd think, though our clocks report it to be a half step behind the Passat and Azera in absolute slalom and skidpad pace. Like the Azera, it's perilously nose-heavy with a 61/39 front/rear weight distribution, but Toyota's stability system turns out to be a particularly cushy catcher's mitt, grabbing wayward chassis gyrations without a stinging rebuke back to the driver.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    IMO it is - just like the non-Touring trims of the Avalon. The best 2 reviews I can think of that put things in a proper perspective are the $30k sedans comparo in CD back in the summer of 05, and then a more up to date effort pitting the Azera, the Av Touring, and the Passat (by MT?) about a year later. All these comparos incidentally 'won' by the Avalon, along with CRs 'highest' rated sedan (06) at that time (in softer XLS trim). The Azera, as noted in that MT comparison, is indeed in the same zip code, and certainly can compare favorably if initial cost is a paramount consideration.

    PS - drive a Lucerne - even the optioned out CXS ($40k) version I drove was 'tighter' than the Azera Ltd. I tried, and the Avalon Touring I own is not even on the same planet in that respect (it admittedly makes some 'ride' compromises )even though it too is no 'sports sedan' (except possibly in straight line performance).
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    we've been thru this before, stability control systems are no 'friend' to things like slalom speed tests and results- particularly when the system can not be effectively disabled as on Toyota/Lexus products so equipped. From a drivers perspective, a demerit on the Avalon's side for sure, but more a result of silly stability control 'interference' (or non-interference as the case may be) - doubt very seriously that these test speeds would be the same if both vehicles competed with the stability control system 'off', Toyota's (or Toyota's lawyers) preference for more 'conservative' yaw sensor settings?
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 6,413
    There is absolutely no way that the Touring Avalon is not firmer than the Azera. My XLS is even a touch firmer from what I can remember from my test drives. The Touring Avalon was actually knocked for having too hard a ride in on of the comparison tests you mentioned.

    As for SC why on earth wouldn't they disable it when testing these cars (it can be done with a crazy set of commands). As has been said before the system MUST kick in slightly before the actual physical limits of the cars. Having said that Toyota must have some of the most paranoid lawyers of all time. No switch to disable the TRAC/VSC, no scrolling radio data, the "I Agree" screen on the nav system the list goes on. Its OK with me though... the 2GR makes up for all that!

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra

  • keitha3keitha3 Posts: 124
    I agree, Captain. I, too, prefer a sportier suspension. I'm hoping that it will move that direction in 2008.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    As for SC why on earth wouldn't they disable it when testing these cars (it can be done with a crazy set of commands
    they generally do (if they can), as is apparent these days with those little asterisks in the skidpad/avoidance test results that indicate 'SC inhibited' in most of the publications. But do you really think that MT (in this case) is going to go thru the trouble of 533 (TIC estimate) brake/parking brake applications to turn it off on an Avalon when this procedure is not even in the owner's manual and Toyota plainly has no intention that we, the owners, should ever do such a thing?
    My point really was that if the Azera can achieve a higher speed on a skidpad it is because Hyundai had enough foresight to understand that there are times that perhaps SC/TRAC SHOULD be shutoff - but, these results are not indicative in any way of even comparable handling characteristics. The Azera does feel (and drive) the way the Buicks used to, from my perspective not a good thing. And, yep, these 'TV lawyers' will continue to get more and more out of hand if we allow them to continue to work on commission! :(

    PS you forgot to mention those nasty cupholders that Toyota takes car to admonish us NOT to use for beverages (of any sort). Wish I had the yellow ink concession at wherever Toyota has its manuals printed!
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    hope they do as well, it shouldn't require much - sway bar resizing, firmer struts/shocks, stiffer springs (not necessarily all of the above)but would logically have no impact on price one way or the other. But, despite 33 year old protestations otherwise would also think the Azera is more likely to be viewed by its owners as the same boulevard cruiser that the Avalon owners view their cars.
  • keitha3keitha3 Posts: 124
    Yes, Hyundai must change its public image.

    Today, talker that I am, I told quite a few people how impressed I was with the Azera.

    Most have a completely negative opinion of Hyundai's. They just perceive of it as a second rate car, not Yugo like, but not nearly in the same league as the Honda's, Toyota's, etc. of the automotive world.

    The exception were Hyundai owners who all were positive about their cars. Their major complaints regarding Hyundai's were the quality of their paint jobs and the dismal resale value of Hyundai's.

    I'm going to keep a very open mind and am glad I have to wait a while until my youngest daughter turns 16.

    My mechanic/drag racer friend was very happy to hear that the Infiniti G35 was still one on my short list. But, for the time being, the Azera is at the top of the list, albeit a very different car.
  • Maybe I just have a dead butt or something, but I think my Azera rides great. It's soft, yes, but that is what I want and expect from a luxury style sedan. If I wanted a "sportier" ride, i would buy a sportier car. My wife has an Audi A4 and that car has terrific high speed handling and very responsive and tight cornering. But, the ride isn't as smoth and soft as the Azera. The Audi is a sportier car, ergo sportier handling.... makes sense, no?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I don't think there is any question that Hyundai has changed - as evidenced by cars like the Azera (and upcoming Genesis) - getting that public image changed though is somewhat more difficult. The Azera as class competitive as it is still sells largely on price something that reflects negatively on resale values later. It would be better for Hyundai if they didn't have to discount the Azera so much to sell it - although I can't fathom a car world where a Korean built car is not perceived as 'cheap', I remember when the Toyotas of the 60s were indeed very 'cheap' cars- it took maybe 20 years for them to live down that rap - largely due to some real quality improvements in their products, a genuinely good understanding of the American car market (and buyer), and lastly the inabilities and indifferences of the American mfgrs. in the face of rising energy costs. I cannot remember though any time during this whole maturation process that Toyotas were ever perceived as 'price' or 'value' leaders, which may be crux of Hyundai's problem - they need to draw a line in the sand and do their best to keep their prices up!
  • jaymagicjaymagic Posts: 309
    LOL, You must have a short memory Captain, I can easily remember when Toyotas and Nissan/Datsun were "price" leaders against Fords, Chevy, Plymouth, Oldsmobile, etc. Have you forgotten the classic Toyota small HILUX p/u's versus the F-150'a, and the Celica's and Corolla's versus the Mustangs and Camaro's of the late 60's.

    I think you might need to layoff that sake bottle. Those brain cells are tough to replace.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    and the Celica's and Corolla's versus the Mustangs and Camaro's of the late 60's.

    I'm only 20, so call me ignorant, but was a Corolla made to compete with late 60s muscle cars? Those seem like two different classes of cars. I thought a Corolla would compete with the likes of a Chevette, etc...
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Maybe I fell asleep (entirely possible :)) but I don't see where we're on topic in the recent posts here...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Whoops. :blush: Sorry. ;)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    This in the newspaper today as apparently CR has released its rankings in multiple classes.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 6,413
    Not in the rental car world ;) !

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    makes you wonder which happens first : corporate America finally 'buys' enough Impalas for their fleets or Chevy runs out of the white paint needed for them. :D However, CR's 'worst' nomination does not make sense to me - if we are to assume that the cause for the rating is suspect reliability (as it normally is with CR). There is nothing on the Impala spec sheet that should create any problem for GM (or anybody else), pushrod 6s and 8s to go along with the 4 speed trannies - if anything surveyed reliability should be at least be something better than average. The model that figures to have more problems perhaps the long awaited RWD Aussie (2010?) Impala with one of those good fuel efficient V8s. ;)
This discussion has been closed.