Hyundai Azera vs. Volkswagen Passat vs. Buick LaCrosse

averigejoe

You are a shopper with $30,000. Which do you buy and why?

dgxnavy

Hi I am getting into this discussion. I just test drove a Buick Lucerne and I like what I see nad like how it handles. It has just about everything that the Azera has and a little more in some areas. The Azera does have some additional items as far as safety and handling is concerned. If the Azera doesn't hurry up and put them in thedealers hands so that I can test drive it for my final determination I am going to just buy the Lucerne. The cost to me will be just about the same as the Azera because I can get a huge discount on the GM product.

bjbird2

Test drive them all and make your decision.
I have a 2002 Passat, and it's been one of the best of the 30 or so cars that I've owned. It handles and rides well, has decent acceleration with the turbo, and gets up to 33mpg on the highway, 26 around town. The interior is gorgeous. The only drawback has been below par reliability, but nothing that wasn't covered under warantee.
What's an Azera?

averigejoe

Azera is Hyundai's new top-of-the-line sedan. It is much larger than the Passat. Azera has 106.9 cu. ft. for passengers and 17 in the trunk.
The 2006 Passat has 96 for passengers and 14.2 in the trunk. I think the 2002 had 95 cu. ft. for passengers.
Has a lot of safety and luxury features and a 10 year powertrain warranty. Appears to be very similar to the Toyota Avalon overall, but cheaper.
The Azera should be in the showrooms soon.

averigejoe

#384 of 396 Re: A Bit of Insight [1racefan] by averigejoe Nov 18, 2005 (1:31 pm)
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Replying to: 1racefan (Nov 18, 2005 12:50 pm)

Azera will start at under $25,000 for the SE model and under $27,000 for the Limited. This fits in perfectly with Hyundai's long standing strategy of offering higher content, while undercutting entrenched rivals on price and warranty. Azera's powertrain protection runs 7-years and 100,000 miles.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2511b.shtml

BUT NOTICE THEY GOT THE WARRANTY WRONG. ACTUALLY IS 10/100,000 ON POWERTRAIN. HOPE THE PRICES ARE RIGHT.

1racefan

That's cool about the pricing. I was just afraid Hyundai would hit the $30K + range. I have said before (and still stand-by it) that the US market isn't ready to accept a $30K + Hyundai at this point in the game.

inajoong

I'd have to test drive the Azera first, but so far, from what car sites are saying, it looks like a winner.

I test drove the LaCrosse about a year ago and was VERY impressed, very smooth and luxurious, and am a current VW owner(jetta) and love the interrior and the ride. However, neither cars offer the luxury features that the azera offers(rear sunshade, mp3..). Along with the size and that kick-[non-permissible content removed] engine, I really think the Azera is a winner.

iluvmysephia1

Hyundai cut the Long-Haul down in years? You can tell that Motorweek has been overdosing on Detroit products for way too long. Get with the program, here, men. It is and has been South Korean for several years!

What other choice do you have?

Get the Azera and relax.

averigejoe

Price, weight and similar V6 power of the LaCrosse makes it a closer competitor to Azera Limited than is the Lucerne.
But adding the necessary options to the LaCrosse to make it as close as possible to the Azera Limited's standard equipment adds $3090 to the LaCrosse MSRP. Grand total $32,185.
And even then the LaCrosse has no memory seats, no front side air bags, no rear side air bags, and no cassette player. The Lacrosse, at 99 cu. ft. passenger volume, is much smaller than Azera's 107. The Azera's 2000 lb. towing capacity is twice that of LaCrosse. And the Azera bumper to bumper warranty is 5 yrs/60,000 miles instead of LaCrosse's 4 yr/50K. The Azera has 10 yrs/100,000 miles on the powertrain.
The Azera Limited MSRP is apparently under $28,000 including shipping, maybe even under $27,000.

averigejoe

The Buick Lucerne CXL V8, with options making it as close as possible to the Azera Limited, has a MSRP of $35,465 (or $35,965 with the super-duper paint job).

The Buick Lucerne CXS V8, with options making it as close as possible to the Azera Limited, has a MSRP of $37,735 (or $38,235 with the super-duper paint job).

The Lucernes have 116" wheelbases vs. Azera's 107. Curbweights are 3969/4013 Lucerne, 3572 Azera. Towing: 1000 lbs. Lucernes, 2000 Azera. Unlike Azera, Lucernes have no rear side-impact airbags.

At the optioned prices above both Lucernes would have XM radio and Onstar. Neither is available in the Azera.

neshapop

LaCrosse for 2006 has standard ABS and side airbags.

averigejoe

I bet the Lucerne is a really nice car and an excellent choice.
I'm noticing that the Lucerne CXL V6, $28,265, has a lot less horsepower 197 and more weight 3969 than the Limited Azera's 263 and 3572. So the Azera will likely feel much more lively when you hit the gas. Usually a lighter car will handle better too in cars of this type.
The $35,265 CXS Lucerne has a 275 HP V8, pretty close to the Azera. Equipment levels on the two are pretty close too. The CXL versions of the Buicks do not have as much standard equipment as the Azera Limited.
Price-wise, the CXL versions of the Lucerne and LaCrosse are about $1650 more than the Azera's $27,000 estimated price. The LaCrosse makes 240 HP and weighs very close to the Azera. The CXS Lucerne is $8650 more than the Azera Limited.
How big is the GM discount?

averigejoe

Nope. The Buick only has the side head curtains, not The side (torso) air bags which the Azera has front and rear. The Azera also has the side head curtain airbags front and rear too.
Read the Buick.com website more carefully and you'll see. Compare it the the Azera website.
The LaCrosse looks like it is a nice car though. Just not when compared to the Azera, which has more features, room, and costs a lot less too.

neshapop

The way you wrote it looked like there was no side airbags.

Crash tests will show whether torso airbags are better than metal enforcement. I know that Regals had lower side impact rating with torso side airbag because test dummy had unacceptable head acceleration causing possible severe injuries hitting the door frame.

Whatever, it is a buyer's call. I would wait to see new Azera tests and consumer feedback. It is always tricky to buy brand new model.

Today car makers just making spec sheet war listing the options and great deals, nobody buys the cars because they like them. Sit in the car and judge by yourself, online specs are useful but marketing can make the things look better and convince anybody in anything.

neshapop

Azera looks to me like Accord knock-off.

I did not find car media too fond towards Detroit products, however I think that you barely can find any without bashing reviews about GM, Ford or DCX in the last 5 years.

Japanese cars are long time media pets, sometimes I disagree with tons of their observations but, heck, who am I?

averigejoe

I was just using the manufacturers' terminology. I guess I should have defined their terms so it was more clear.
The side torso bags may be more benficial as a marketing too than they are in a collision. Who knows? I hope I never have to find out the hard way.
Not sure, but I'd bet Azera has metal reinforcements in all of its doors. Airbags are just an extra measure of protection.

averigejoe

I'd call the Hyundais originals but if I had to identify them as knockoffs I'd pair the Azera with Avalon, but match the Sonata to the Accord/Camry.

pwgilbert

I've been putting off buying a sedan for months--awaiting the Azera to compare to an Avalon. Does anyone know what a Limited has that a SE doesn't"? Or what an "ultimate package" consists of? I should just get an Avalon I suppose (I'm 73) but find the styling pretty bland. Paul Gilbert

bhmr59

try doing a google search for "hyundai azera." One of the links lists the various standard equipment of the 3 trims.

robchemist

The other feature that one will almost certainly get with the Azera, although Hyundai will not likely list it, is extra noise. The LaCrosse and Avalon are essentially identical in terms of quiteness, while the Lucerne will likely be much quieter than either the LaCrosse or Avalon (based on initial non-comparative reviews, larger size than LaCrosse, and an additional year to improve sound-proofing technology).

averigejoe

Why would you guess the Azera will be louder?

smith20

Why would you guess the Azera will be louder?

Seems like classic anti-Hyundai bias to me! Hyundai is obviously incapable of designing and assembling a competitive car!

tenpin288

From Edmund's First Drive:

Hyundai Azera First Drive

Hyundai admits to setting its sights on the Toyota Avalon, but the Azera is so luxurious inside, challenging the Lexus ES 330 isn't out of the question. The Azera's center stack is clean and elegant with wood and aluminum trim galore, and there's no cheap plastic to be found. Instead, quality touches like a thick headliner, fabric-wrapped door pillars and triple door seals help the Azera envelope passengers in quiet comfort. Contrast stitching along the soft leather seat covers help to increase the Azera's style quotient.

Methinks that implies a fairly decent level of quietness.

robchemist

I think that you misread my post. As far as I know, Hyundai has never stressed quietness in their build. Some manufacturers do, some don't. Their is no bias in my post one way or another. It will be interesting to see the car actually tests out. For example, post #24 has a link noting the "triple door seals" and the initial driving impressions by Edmunds. The triple door seals would be expected to make the car quieter at highway speed, but will have no effect on wheel/engine/environmental noise. These latter issues deal with sheet metal type (multilayer vs. single) and vibrational damping, glass type, direct air entry points, amount and type of sound absorbant both in the cabin and in the intercompartmental spaces, etc. From my perspective, the only numbers that will count is when one actually uses a sound meter to measure the sound - thus my comments in the previous post regarding the Avalon and LaCrosse.

averigejoe

Yep. Sounds like anti-Hyundai bias to me too.
(Of course Hyundai trys to build quiet cars. And their car building has been getting much better over the past several years. Why would they do any differently?)

smith20

I think that you misread my post.

What is there to misread? There's hardly anything there. Azera is only mentioned in the first sentence. Let's revisit that first sentence:

The other feature that one will almost certainly get with the Azera, although Hyundai will not likely list it, is extra noise.

You make an unsubstantiated claim that the Azera is going to have extra noise, mockingly called a "feature". Seems to me like the only point of your post was to make fun of Hyundai.

robchemist

Oh, have a sense of humor! Also, I did not say it "will" have more noise - I said that it will likely have more noise. Even though I would bet at least a cup of Starbucks that the Azera is going to be noisier than the comparable Buick (LaCrosse or Lucerne) or Toyota (Avalon), I will wait that for empirical evidence before actually stating that it is (or is not) a less quiet vehicle. I do, however, agree with you and the other posters that Hyundai has greatly improved both their design and manufacturing capability over the past few years (as evidenced by, for example, JDPower reports).

jeffreid

To answer the option and package equipment questions, here are the facts. The Limited Azera will have heated leather seats vs. the cloth with optional heat in the SE. Also, you will get 17" wheels vs. 16" on the SE. Further, a power rear sunshade, electroluminescent gauges, woodgrain on the door pulls and steering wheel, and exterior chrome touches will make the Limited different.

The SE will have a premium package that will consist of a roof, upgraded sound, and heated seats. The Limited will have the same package without the heated seat being there (since it is standard). The Limited will also have the Ultimate package available. The Ultimate will have power pedals,steering wheel, and folding exterior mirrors. Also the roof, and the upgraded sound will come with this, as well as a memory system for the driver's seat,wheel,and mirrors. Moisture-sensitive windshield wipers will come with this package also.

I also have color combos and some other info if anyone is interested. Feel free to email me.

fdcapt2

I posted on the 2006 Azera page about my purchase of the '06 Passat with the 3.6 V6. It cost me about $3000 more to buy the Passat, but the equipment it has compared to the Azera is nice. Front and rear park assist, turn signals in the mirrors, B i-Zenon headlights that turn as you enter a curve to light things up, headlight washers, heated windshield washer nozzles, 600 watt sound system, driver and passenger 12 way power seats with power lumbar, cornering lights, puddle lamps under the mirrors, and much more. I guess that maybe the fact that Hyundai dragged their feet with the Azera, and kept everything so quiet as far as release dates, etc., that I ended up with a better car. I was buying the Azera from the first reports and pictures way back when, but it just got to be to frustrating not knowing when this car would be here. Enjoy your new Azera, I hope it was worth the wait.

averigejoe

I bet a lot of people who are interested in the Azera would not even look at the Passat because it is so much smaller than the Azera. If lots of passenger and trunk space is needed, then a shopper might look at the Avalon or Ford 500, but not the Passat.
No doubt though, the Passat is a nice little car.

bjbird2

My gut tells me the 2006 Passat is bigger than the Azera, unfortunately I can't find any specs on the Azura :confuse:

rgyip

Nope. The new Passat,while has grown over the previous iteration, is smaller than the new Sonata. The Azera is definately bigger than the new Passat.

snakeweasel

The SE will have a premium package that will consist of a roof,

Ok I have to ask, if you don't get the premium package you don't get a roof?

averigejoe

5 of 34 Re: Azera vs. Passat vs. LaCrosse [bjbird2] by averigejoe Nov 20, 2005 (5:59 pm)
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Replying to: bjbird2 (Nov 20, 2005 3:54 pm)

Azera is Hyundai's new top-of-the-line sedan. It is much larger than the Passat. Azera has 106.9 cu. ft. for passengers and 17 in the trunk.
The 2006 Passat has 96 for passengers and 14.2 in the trunk. I think the 2002 had 95 cu. ft. for passengers.

That makes the Passat about as roomy for passengers as an Elantra.

averigejoe

Make that 2006 Passat only 95.2 cubic feet for passengers according to Volkswagen on a Yahoo website. http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/volkswagen_passatsedan_3.6l_2006/18181/style_specs.html;_yl- - t=Ah1rpAgmJFqSYUx0f9G9nYBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2MWFla2V2BGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDc3IEdn- - RpZANERlg1XzMw?p=cap

That makes the Passat as roomy for passengers as an Elantra.

The Passat 3.6 L is nearly as heavy as the Azera. The VW is only 53 pounds lighter than the Azera Limited.

fdcapt2

The difference between the 2 isn't as much as some people want you to think. Granted, the Azera is a bigger car, but not to the point where you can call the Passat small. After checking a few other models that are in the same class ?? the Azera is bigger in some measurements, close in others, and smaller in a few. Believe me when I tell you the Passat isn't a small car. I'm a big guy, and I feel comfortable in the Passat. I test drove the Acura TL, and even though it's a beautiful car, it's tight inside. Same with the Maxima. I don't think you can really call any of these cars small, but in my case, the Passat feels good. Add in 20 more HP, and 10 pounds more torque, plus an extra gear, and quite a few more options, and we have a nice car. Once again, my opinion.

bjbird2

Actually you're right, the Sonata is larger in most areas, but not a lot. The Passat has more rear legroom.

Interior Passat- Sonata
Front Headroom 38.4 in.-40.1 in.
Rear Headroom 37.8 in.-38.2 in.
Front Shoulder Room 55.7 in.-57.4 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 54.6 in.-56.9 in.
Front Hip Room Being Researched-55.5 in.
Rear Hip Room Being Researched-55.3 in.
Front Leg Room 41.4 in.-43.7 in.
Rear Leg Room 37.7 in.-37.4 in.
Maximum Luggage Capacity 14.2 cu.ft.-16.3 cu.ft.
Maximum Seating 5- 5

averigejoe

Those size differences between Passat and Sonata are all pretty significant, except for the rear legroom which is a small fraction of an inch.
C'mon, who are you trying to fool? You are only fooling yourself!
Sizewise, compare the Passat to the little Elantra. Your numbers should be a lot closer. Except the trunk.

njerald

The Azera has 11% more interior room and almost a 20% bigger trunk than the Passat. The Passat isn't small except in comparisons with bigger vehicles.

averigejoe

But the Passat has the same interior passenger space as the Elantra, right?
The Elantra is a pretty small car even though the EPA calls it a midsized car.

njerald

Passat is slightly roomier (interior and trunk volume) than the Elantra and slightly smaller (interior and trunk volume)than the Honda Accord.

Some people aren't interested in the roominess but are after other attributes.

bjbird2

Well said, and the Passat definitely does offer other attributes.
I can honestly say it's been the best ALL AROUND car of the 30+ cars that I've owned.

averigejoe

Passat 96 / 14
Elantra 95 / 13
Accord 103 / 14

Pretty big passenger volume jump up to the Accord.

2006 EPA Fuel Economy Guide

averigejoe

Did you settle for the vinyl seats in your Passat?
If you want the leather you have to pay about $3000 more to get it in a package with some other stuff.

bjbird2

I'll bet 99 out of 100 people couldn't tell the vinyl from the leather in the Passat, it looks that good. Save the $3k.

fdcapt2

I got the package with the leather, as well as many other upgrades. Like I posted in the Azera forum, it cost me about $3000 over the Azera Limited, but the options are well worth it. If the Azera had some of these options, I would probably have gotten the Azera, but.........and I agree, you would have a tough time telling the vinyl seats from the leather.

averigejoe

I'm sure the vinyl is beautiful to look at, just like the leather. But they are seats, not pictures on a wall.
Drive for an hour or two sitting on them. The comfort of leather over vinyl is very noticeable. The leather breathes better. Your don't get that sticky feeling. On vinyl you do. Or at least I do.
Also at temperature extremes the leather is more pleasant.

averigejoe

"cost me about $3000 over the Azera Limited"?

That is too vague to be meaningful. Can you explain more?

What was the MSRP of your Passat with the options you selected?
And how much did you pay?
And what price are you assuming you could have bought the Azera Limited for?
And what options are you figuring on the Azera at that price?

averigejoe

Using manufacturer's measurements:

Passat is 95.2 cu. ft. for passengers.
Azera is 106.9 cu. ft. for passengers.

So, the Azera is 12.3% larger than the Passat for passengers.

Percentagewise, that is like a 199 pound man eating a whole lot of Twinkies and ballooning up to 223 pounds. It would be a big difference on me.

bjbird2

The vinyl is perforated on the Passat, so breathing is not a problem.

navigator89

Could we expand this discussion to include the Toyota Avalon, Ford Five Hundred and replace the Lacrosse with the Lucerne? Having more cars in the discussion can only make it more interesting.