Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Did you get a great deal? Let us know in the Values & Prices Paid section!
Meet your fellow owners in our Owners Clubs

Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

1626627629631632636

Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,450
    There was a joke about Kissinger in DC: "If he really likes you, he'll stop his car before letting you out".
    fintail said:

    He makes Cheney look like the Tooth Fairy. If there's one cowardly old monster who slithered his way to power and who deserves a Nuremberg style inquisition, it's him. With similar results, of course.

    No doubt he's loving the events of today.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

    Share Your Vehicle Reviews Here

  • berriberri Posts: 9,742
    In Chicago they say you can tell the mob guy because he always has his back to the wall so he can get to yours.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited December 2015
    "While General Motors awaits formal notice from the UAW that a four-year agreement has been ratified, the automaker's Buick brand remains intent on importing a compact crossover vehicle from China.

    The Free Press reported in August that Buick planned to begin selling the Envision, now produced at a plant in Shandong province of China, by the end of 2016. Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported that Buick still plans to import the vehicle to the U.S."

    Buick firm on importing Envision crossover from China (Detroit Free Press)

    GM to Import Chinese-Made Buick SUV (WSJ registration link)

  • berriberri Posts: 9,742
    It will be interesting how it pans out. If successful it will give GM a nice chunk of profits, but it may also risk accelerating US entry and acceptance of new Chinese brands that could come back and bite GM.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited November 2015
    Interesting timing with the UAW thinking about reopening contract talks and the skilled workers griping about the current deal on the table.

    Good point about opening the door to the Cherys out there.
  • berriberri Posts: 9,742
    As for the UAW, I think Detroit, and probably particularly Ford and their cave in HR philosophy, will rue this agreement down the road in a few years when sales move back to a more normal volume. I'm assuming they still have to pay out a big portion of salary to these workers during layoff periods?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited November 2015
    Yeah, sales are booming - shaping up to be the biggest year since 2001, or maybe 2004. I also think sales will start to taper off later in 2016 as people scratch the itch they got when the economy went south in 2008. But you can argue that right now the automakers can't afford not to pay the workers well and face an extended strike - if they miss this current bubble of sales, they'll be playing catch up for a long time. VW may be sitting in that boat in the US right now.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    I was under the impression that the Envision and the 2017 Chevy Equinox would both be built in Oshawa. That would still make it an "imported" vehicle albeit from a NAFTA nation.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,356
    Chinese Buick will either sell to the expats who aren't buying new MBs in my area, or to fleets.
  • berriberri Posts: 9,742
    But you can argue that right now the automakers can't afford not to pay the workers well and face an extended strike - if they miss this current bubble of sales, they'll be playing catch up for a long time

    Very true and even more influenced by Wall Street short term focus. But long term they may have been better off letting the contract expire and advertising for new workers like Caterpillar did. That weakened the UAW there which still helps the company. The workers know that Cat could up and move somewhere to a port city in the south where it is right to work if there is labor trouble. Hiring new workers is disruptive for a bit, but much of the work isn't that skilled. I rented a new Traverse top of the line LTZ a few months ago. Had around 1400 miles on it. Put my elbow on the driver's armrest and not only was it loose, but the entire panel was flexing. I've rented many of those, so I know its not a design flaw. Rather the result of a lazy or bad attitude UAW line worker. I actually think if Detroit stood up to the UAW it might bring some new sales down the road. So many Americans have been burned by the UAW lack of work ethic in the past.

    Chinese Buick will either sell to the expats who aren't buying new MBs in my area, or to fleets

    I sure wouldn't buy one. Don't trust China quality or morals. They'd probably set it up to be hacked if they chose to attack America B)
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited November 2015
    lol, comparing morals to what - GM ignition switches or VW cheat codes or Ford/Firestone or Kia/Hyundai mpg claims?
  • berriberri Posts: 9,742
    Yeah your right, but I still wouldn't buy a car made in China. The country has hacked and stolen so much company proprietary info and US citizen data - I just don't trust their long term intentions. Of course, otoh they can be a bit xenophobic and maybe don't trust ours either.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,188
    stever said:

    lol, comparing morals to what - GM ignition switches or VW cheat codes or Ford/Firestone or Kia/Hyundai mpg claims?

    Agreed. And it's kind of funny that people who want everybody to "buy American" have GM who could be the first to sell a car from China. BMW and Hyundai and Honda and Toyota and.... all set up plants in the US and create US jobs. Yet the first to China might be a US nameplate.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,356
    edited November 2015
    Yes, cheat codes and mpg claims to the IP social and environmental wonder of the world. Nice comparison.

    Some just want their cheap goods, no matter the externalities or consequences.
    stever said:

    lol, comparing morals to what - GM ignition switches or VW cheat codes or Ford/Firestone or Kia/Hyundai mpg claims?

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,188
    fintail said:

    Yes, cheat codes and mpg claims to the IP social and environmental wonder of the world. Nice comparison.

    Some just want their cheap goods, no matter the externalities or consequences.

    stever said:

    lol, comparing morals to what - GM ignition switches or VW cheat codes or Ford/Firestone or Kia/Hyundai mpg claims?

    No love lost for China but what GM did and what VW has done are reprehensible.
    Toyota's SUA looks pretty tame in comparison.
  • berriberri Posts: 9,742
    Honestly, given the old GM it could have been management incompetence.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,356
    edited November 2015
    Yes, cheat codes and mpg claims to the IP social and environmental wonder of the world. Nice comparison. Some just want their cheap goods, no matter the externalities or consequences.
    lol, comparing morals to what - GM ignition switches or VW cheat codes or Ford/Firestone or Kia/Hyundai mpg claims?
    No love lost for China but what GM did and what VW has done are reprehensible. Toyota's SUA looks 

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,188
    edited November 2015
    Although no deaths are involved like the GM and Toyota fiascos, VW's behavior IMHO is reprehensible because although there are no personal injuries involved, the company's behavior was deliberate and dishonest - unlike GM and Toyota. VW tried up front to cheat and deceive. This speaks to morals; as far as I'm concerned they can quit selling vehicles in the US for a while. Like a sports player put on suspension, I'd give them a 5 year suspension. But of course not even sure the US has that authority, plus a lot of innocent dealers would be harmed.

    I find the recent VW vehicles almost all uninspring anyway, unlike a decade ago.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,356
    There are no morals in business. The only difference is that they got caught. 5 years seems a bit steep - if that's justice, then back when the banksters sabotaged the economy for personal and corporate game, the huge amount of guilty firms should have been dissolved, personal and corporate assets liquidated, suits given decades in prison, and the key wrongdoers put on trial a maximum potential of capital punishment - better people have received it for less. It doesn't work that way, however. (hell, we do business with China every day, who does worse virtually every day) They'll get some big fines, maybe some woefully overpaid arrogant prosecutors will try to make a few personal examples, but in time it will blow over. In the end, the golden rule wins.
    tlong said:

    Although no deaths are involved like the GM and Toyota fiascos, VW's behavior IMHO is reprehensible because although there are no personal injuries involved, the company's behavior was deliberate and dishonest - unlike GM and Toyota. VW tried up front to cheat and deceive. This speaks to morals; as far as I'm concerned they can quit selling vehicles in the US for a while. Like a sports player put on suspension, I'd give them a 5 year suspension. But of course not even sure the US has that authority, plus a lot of innocent dealers would be harmed.

    I find the recent VW vehicles almost all uninspring anyway, unlike a decade ago.

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,756
    tlong said:

    Although no deaths are involved like the GM and Toyota fiascos, VW's behavior IMHO is reprehensible because although there are no personal injuries involved, the company's behavior was deliberate and dishonest - unlike GM and Toyota. VW tried up front to cheat and deceive. This speaks to morals; as far as I'm concerned they can quit selling vehicles in the US for a while. Like a sports player put on suspension, I'd give them a 5 year suspension. But of course not even sure the US has that authority, plus a lot of innocent dealers would be harmed.

    I find the recent VW vehicles almost all uninspring anyway, unlike a decade ago.

    For me GM and other bailout takers have much more reprehensible morals than what VW has done. I don't give Chrysler and GM a pass for making crappy cars for years and years. I believe they deliberately made crappy cars because they didn't care about the end user one cent. They also were negligent and incompetent, which only made the deliberately designed crappy cars even worse than crap. There are no morals in taking zero pride in ones work.

    I know I get some resistance on these boards for saying it, but my belief is that every Neon sold was fraud perpetrated on the buying public. Disposable, temporary vehicle (like a BIC Razor) sold as a real durable vehicle. Imagine if BIC started charging $50 for a disposable razor.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '17 VW Golf Alltrack SE 4-Motion 1.8T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,188
    andres3 said:

    tlong said:

    Although no deaths are involved like the GM and Toyota fiascos, VW's behavior IMHO is reprehensible because although there are no personal injuries involved, the company's behavior was deliberate and dishonest - unlike GM and Toyota. VW tried up front to cheat and deceive. This speaks to morals; as far as I'm concerned they can quit selling vehicles in the US for a while. Like a sports player put on suspension, I'd give them a 5 year suspension. But of course not even sure the US has that authority, plus a lot of innocent dealers would be harmed.

    I find the recent VW vehicles almost all uninspring anyway, unlike a decade ago.

    For me GM and other bailout takers have much more reprehensible morals than what VW has done. I don't give Chrysler and GM a pass for making crappy cars for years and years. I believe they deliberately made crappy cars because they didn't care about the end user one cent. They also were negligent and incompetent, which only made the deliberately designed crappy cars even worse than crap. There are no morals in taking zero pride in ones work.

    I know I get some resistance on these boards for saying it, but my belief is that every Neon sold was fraud perpetrated on the buying public. Disposable, temporary vehicle (like a BIC Razor) sold as a real durable vehicle. Imagine if BIC started charging $50 for a disposable razor.
    Oh I don't disagree about C and GM, it's just that was a decades-long systemic deterioration of product quality. But not quite the same as "let's cheat the EPA regulations". I attribute the poor US nameplate quality more to cost-cutting and union-vs-mgt conflicts, but not to open malicious intent.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,450
    I also think cheating on emissions is a more grievous ethical violation, inasmuch as it affects every U.S. citizen.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

    Share Your Vehicle Reviews Here

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 4,819
    At the end of the day, all will be forgiven and we'll move on to the next thing. Owning two gas powered VW/Audi products for just over a year now, we are impressed with how good they both are and are enjoying the ownership experience. All the vehicles we've owned...domestic, Japanese, Korean and now German, they all have gotten better as the years go by and most of the major players have been involved of some nefarious business from time to time. Seems to be just part of the game and we all move on.
    Just enjoy what you drive is my take on the ownership experience. I made the big mistake of getting a vehicle I settled for and it was a mistake, a big somewhat expensive one which I hope to never repeat again. With just over a year of ownership, I had to cut it loose from the herd and ended up with something that puts a grin on my face whenever I look at it. Sure it was illogical, expensive, dumb...use any adjective you'd like but once I did it, I never looked back and to this day, have no regret. So my message is this, buy and drive what you really like and you will smile every mile down the road!!

    The Sandman :) B)

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

  • I made the big mistake of getting a vehicle I settled for and it was a mistake, a big somewhat expensive one which I hope to never repeat again. With just over a year of ownership, I had to cut it loose from the herd and ended up with something that puts a grin on my face whenever I look at it. Sure it was illogical, expensive, dumb...use any adjective you'd like but once I did it, I never looked back and to this day, have no regret.

    The Sandman :) B)

    Wow, only a year? What were you driving that was so disappointing?

    I had an Exploder that I dumped after 10 months because the 4WD locking hubs would only partially engage and then fully engage with a car shaking thud after taking a left turn from a complete stop. Then a bad O2 sensor and a rear wheel bearing at about 7k miles and I gave up. Traded it in at a loss for a Honda Accord...

    But this was the only time I have ever had buyers remorse with a new car.

    Cheers and Happy New year to everybody

  • berriberri Posts: 9,742
    I once owned an absolutely awful 99 Explorer AWD. It even had the old 302 V8, but reliability was not one of it's stronger attributes. However, I'd see very similar ones that ran forever. I guess quality was still an inconsistent matter back then.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,188
    I also posted the following in the "Us Auto News and Reviews" forum...

    GM bets Americans will buy cars made in China

    We've speculated about this for many years on these boards. While GM has had Chinese engines brought into the US (a first for any maker), now they are planning on going further. With all of the talk about "What is an American Car" and "I'm glad I'm buying a car made near me", what does this mean when our "most American of all" automakers is becoming (at least with some vehicles) the "most foreign of all"? Is the fact that "profits go to the US" enough?

    Discuss...
  • carboy21carboy21 Posts: 760
    tlong said:

    I also posted the following in the "Us Auto News and Reviews" forum...

    GM bets Americans will buy cars made in China

    We've speculated about this for many years on these boards. While GM has had Chinese engines brought into the US (a first for any maker), now they are planning on going further. With all of the talk about "What is an American Car" and "I'm glad I'm buying a car made near me", what does this mean when our "most American of all" automakers is becoming (at least with some vehicles) the "most foreign of all"? Is the fact that "profits go to the US" enough?

    Discuss...

    Don't buy iPhone. It is made in China. No cellphone is made in USA .
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,450
    It rather depends on the future political climate. Another Tiananmen Square and GM could be in trouble with that.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

    Share Your Vehicle Reviews Here

  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,702
    edited January 2016
    "Don't buy iPhone. It is made in China. No cellphone is made in USA."

    Some similarities, but in general, apples to oranges. Besides the 5-6 digit dollar investment one makes in a car vs. the three digit dollar investment in an iPhone, smartphones have not had a long tradition and heritage of being an American made product. Although the Amer. automotive industry has undergone a decline, there is a resurgence of quality. Chinese made goods have a prevailing opinion that they do not hold up well, which will have to be overcome.
  • berriberri Posts: 9,742
    ...but will the new Chinese Buick have Stabilitrak :p
Sign In or Register to comment.