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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    Of course, it also took the most horrific war in modern history to really end the depression. Fortunately, modern warfare should be different. This might not be the same ebb and flow that the lucky generation a few prior was able to experience on the west coast as they benefited from unparalleled asset appreciation and often gifts from thrifty predecessors.

    There are definitely storm clouds on the horizon related to the deindustrialization of the middle class, and the reverse style socialism the nation has engaged in (many sacrifice for the good of the few). There is going to be social strife. Eventually, there is probably going to be a guaranteed minimum income, as robot and 3D printing tech eliminate more jobs, and governments fail to adequately address the treacherous offshoring movement. However, I think other locations have even more worrisome storm clouds. Just like with politics, it might not be a game of the perfect place (choice), but the one that is less bad.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 60,952
    Jobs are probably only shifting from one sector to another, just like when buggy-whip makers became Auto Zone. :p

    There has always been social unrest---the 30s, the 50s, the 60s and the 70s in America were extremely violent. Veterans were shot dead in DC, college students shot dead in Ohio, millions demonstrating everywhere.

    You're actually living in a rather peaceful and prosperous time compared to most chunks of American history.


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  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    edited October 2016
    Unfortunately, new or shifted living wage new jobs aren't always keeping pace with population growth, and there's no real plan to keep pace with projected population growth. Hence the idea of a mandated basic income, although the "we built it" set (who often benefit more than anyone from inheritance or simple luck) will cry, and millions of their delusional followers will support them, at their own peril.

    True progress would see a reduction in that unrest. I don't see such progress being made yet, the unrest is just shifting a little.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMPosts: 7,476
    edited October 2016
    Even in the Great Depression, if you had just held onto your nearly worthless investments, (assuming the companies you were invested in didn't disappear) most people would have been made whole again in about 8 years.

    But Henry Ford had a car that they just had to have, or, a fixed-up used one that shone like a star to them. We've taken Dave Ramsey's course and think way, way differently than we used to. We're making it and saving as much as we can, but saving is never easy. Still, in 4 years, 9 months, 28 days, 3 hours and one minute I plan to retire from full-time employment. Gotta include this: That's if the Lord's willing and the creek don't rise. :)

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • berriberri Posts: 8,638
    edited October 2016
    Well, just got a notice from my bank that if I don't process at least one transaction each year in each account, the account will be considered dormant and subject to turn over to the state. The bank claims it is due to Congress and their new banking laws. Loot the middle class saver while Wall Street bankers loot the taxpayers! Yeah, Washington is getting tough on big banks because of the bailouts - NOT :@ How is that not outright theft by the government?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    Find a new bank B)

    "Loot the middle class saver while Wall Street bankers loot the taxpayers!"

    Has been historical record for how many decades now?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 60,952
    edited October 2016
    berri said:

    Well, just got a notice from my bank that if I don't process at least one transaction each year in each account, the account will be considered dormant and subject to turn over to the state. The bank claims it is due to Congress and their new banking laws. Loot the middle class saver while Wall Street bankers loot the taxpayers! Yeah, Washington is getting tough on big banks because of the bailouts - NOT :@ How is that not outright theft by the government?

    This law has been in effect for many years and is initiated by your state, not by Washington. Your state gets the money from "unclaimed" accounts. Nothing to do with Wall St. although I do share your contempt for them. What has changed over the years is the time requirement for seizure. Used to be 15 years, now, varying by state, it's usually 3 to 5.

    But whatever, it's still NOT NICE.

    Regarding Ford's move of production of all small cars to Mexico---Ford has announced that no jobs will be lost. All employees formerly building those cars will be moved to other production lines.

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  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,393
    edited October 2016

    berri said:

    Well, just got a notice from my bank that if I don't process at least one transaction each year in each account, the account will be considered dormant and subject to turn over to the state. The bank claims it is due to Congress and their new banking laws. Loot the middle class saver while Wall Street bankers loot the taxpayers! Yeah, Washington is getting tough on big banks because of the bailouts - NOT :@ How is that not outright theft by the government?

    This law has been in effect for many years and is initiated by your state, not by Washington. Your state gets the money from "unclaimed" accounts. Nothing to do with Wall St. although I do share your contempt for them. What has changed over the years is the time requirement for seizure. Used to be 15 years, now, varying by state, it's usually 3 to 5.

    But whatever, it's still NOT NICE.

    Regarding Ford's move of production of all small cars to Mexico---Ford has announced that no jobs will be lost. All employees formerly building those cars will be moved to other production lines.
    A lot of banks including Credit Unions try to steal money by charging an "Inactivity Fee!" Long before the State claims the funds, but after say a year of no transactions. They were charging an account I had little money in this monthly fee until I had almost nothing left (never mind the paltry savings interest rate). I was able to successfully argue that their fine print was faulty however, and get them to refund all the charges going back over 6 months before I noticed. This is a big problem with going paperless, you may never see something that is happening.

    Anyway, I was able to win the argument with upper management due to the fact their fine print didn't clearly define interest accumulation (which happened monthly at this Credit Union) as NOT a transaction. In my opinion, every time the bank deposited interest monthly, it was a transaction that changed the balance. In fact, you could probably argue every monthly inactivity charge was a transaction (but didn't go there). Anyway, I think they changed the definition of inactivity and "transaction" in the membership agreement shortly after they refunded my money. Nowadays, most probably spell out that a transaction is only defined as a withdrawal or deposit.

    This was with a Credit Union, had it been a "BIG BANK" I might not have been successful at reasoning with them.

    Bank of America got my wife and I to sign up for 2 credit cards (we like to keep separate accounts on expenditures), and we were supposed to be given $100 bonus once we spent $500 in the first 3 months. Well, we lived up to our end of the bargain, but it appeared their MO was to not pay these bonuses. When you call in to complain, they act like they don't know what $100 you are talking about. When you dig deep and really fight them, they claim the person that took my phone call and did my application failed to enter the wrong promotion code. They didn't want to do the right thing. I eventually won the argument as I appealed multiple times and threatened to go up the ladder more than a rung or two (my first appeal was unsuccessful). My wife gave up sooner and never got her $100 dollars.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • berriberri Posts: 8,638
    Banks, real estate - I always think the closer to cash, the bigger the crooks B)
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,164
    fintail said:

    The trend is what? Origin doesn't matter? That if you have enough money, you can buy rules? Of course it doesn't matter how much of a criminal or abuser you are, you can still profit. The most favored "partner" (some partnership LOLOL) has free rein. And then the embezzling homeland low level officials can come here and launder their dirty gold in our real estate markets.

    I wouldn't buy a Volvo or a Chinese Buick for political reasons alone.

    Oligocracy. For whom the normal person votes matters little.

    It sure seems that most people just don't care about where their stuff comes from as long as it's cheap.

    You need to only look at the current presidential candidates to see how bright the voters on both sides are in this country.

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,164
    berri said:

    Banks, real estate - I always think the closer to cash, the bigger the crooks B)

    I like that one. And undoubtedly usually accurate.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 45,142
    Of course they don't care, gotta make declining real incomes stretch somehow. Another fine side effect of deceptively named current "free trade" strategy.

    My greatest fear about the election is that one of them will win :)
    tlong said:


    It sure seems that most people just don't care about where their stuff comes from as long as it's cheap.

    You need to only look at the current presidential candidates to see how bright the voters on both sides are in this country.

  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    How the American Brands Perform in Car Reliability (consumerreports.org)

    For purposes of this discussion, I guess it helps that the worst performing American brand is owned by an Italian company.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 22,156
    edited October 2016
    Chinese company moving into US. Moraine Ohio plant that used to produce S-10s and then midsize SUVs has part resurrected by Fuyao.

    Several factual errors in article. This plant was built new for S-10s, not in the 1920s as article says. The unemployment is not 4.4% in the area. Closer to 10-12%. But what can be expected from newspaper writers these days. $10,000,000 in covert Ohio subsidies; who knows how much covert subsidies have gone into wooing the plant to locate there.

    The glass in your next car may come from here.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/10/26/a-chinese-billionaire-is-staking-his-legacy-and-thousands-of-american-jobs-on-this-factory-in-ohio/



    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,393
    stever said:

    How the American Brands Perform in Car Reliability (consumerreports.org)

    For purposes of this discussion, I guess it helps that the worst performing American brand is owned by an Italian company.

    I rather enjoyed reading this, my favorite part of the article, the short bio on the author, copied here for your convenience:

    Jon Linkov

    I owe my career to two fateful events: my father buying a 1965 Corvette and my purchase of an Audi A4 rather than a Chevy Tahoe. The Corvette jump-started my love of cars, and the Audi led me to automotive journalism, track days, and amateur car repair. In my free time I cycle as much as possible, no matter the season.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,393
    Is this thread dead?
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • berriberri Posts: 8,638
    maybe the better topic is avoiding Chinese ;)
  • berriberri Posts: 8,638
    ...and I think Camry is one of the highest, if not the highest, US content vehicles.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 60,952
    If NAFTA is revoked, this "border adjustment tax" invoked and more spending/fewer taxes goes into effect, the Feds will have to raise interest rates---all this will lead to a stronger dollar and U.S. exports will drop like a rock.

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  • berriberri Posts: 8,638
    Very valid point. Also it will be an excuse for small cars like Focus and Corolla to be dropped from the US marketplace. Their demand, particularly for small Detroit vehicles, is probably not sufficient for US investment. Mexico will join much of Latin America in tightening their ties to China and Europe. I believe Trump is right that some aspects of NAFTA need to be relooked and renegotiated, but an all out war with Mexico just seems stupid to me.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 60,952
    The strength or weakness of the U.S. dollar has both advantages and disadvantages, so if you don't know what you're doing, it's best not to mess with it for short term political gain. There's really no right answer here except "tread lightly whatever you do". In today's global economy, many industries, including the automobile biz, is very sensitive to what happens in OTHER countries as well.

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  • berriberri Posts: 8,638
    The word is called "moderation" and no one in Washington seems to understand that meaning anymore.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 60,952
    edited February 2017
    As with cheeseburgers and alcohol, if you don't heed moderation, you'll be reminded.

    So, mess around too much with medical insurance and interest rates, and you've rattled the two largest industries in America in terms of % of GDP----healthcare and real estate. (about 7% and 9% respectively).

    The auto industry is no slouch either in terms of GDP percentage--- about 2.5%.

    To give perspective, the shocking recession of 2008 dropped the GDP by about 5%

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    edited February 2017
    We've discussed this, but content percentages don't take into account location of final assembly, location of engine assembly, or location of transmission assembly. At least that's what a GM window sticker says. Those locations are on a GM window sticker and I have to believe they're on all makes' stickers.

    Spare the harping on me, 'cause I've heard it before, but I'll always remember the N.A.-head of Toyota looking like a deer in the headlights when asked about recalls in D.C. He deferred most everything to Mr. Toyoda.

    And to be fair, I know you've heard me say that here before, too. :)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,393

    We've discussed this, but content percentages don't take into account location of final assembly, location of engine assembly, or location of transmission assembly. At least that's what a GM window sticker says. Those locations are on a GM window sticker and I have to believe they're on all makes' stickers.

    Spare the harping on me, 'cause I've heard it before, but I'll always remember the N.A.-head of Toyota looking like a deer in the headlights when asked about recalls in D.C. He deferred most everything to Mr. Toyoda.

    And to be fair, I know you've heard me say that here before, too. :)

    My question would be do the listed places of assembly for the engine and transmission count for a specified percentage of the total percentage? Is it by part numbers or by part weight as a % of the total vehicle? I would think an engine and transmission would count for a high percentage.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 10,372
    I should walk out to my Cruze and look at the sticker, but I remember them saying something to the effect of "Parts content percentages do not take into account location of final assembly, engine assembly, or transmission assembly".

    I guess that really didn't add anything to our conversation, did it? :)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,393

    I should walk out to my Cruze and look at the sticker, but I remember them saying something to the effect of "Parts content percentages do not take into account location of final assembly, engine assembly, or transmission assembly".

    I guess that really didn't add anything to our conversation, did it? :)

    Well, in a way it did, now I'm better understanding the point, but if a car has final assembly outside the US, but still has or maintains high US parts content, that's a good thing for US manufacturing I would think.

    And Vice Versa, would be good for assembly workers in the US, but not the people making parts.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '17 VW Golf AllTrack SE 4-Motion AWD, Wife's '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,234
    I'm proud to say that I work for a company that offers four SUVs that are made in America; even better It can build one to order and have it at your local dealer in 3-4 weeks.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2016 i3 REX/2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • berriberri Posts: 8,638
    I'm not sure that assembly location is as relevant as it sounds because most of that assembly is in Indiana and Kentucky for Toyota and Ohio and Alabama for Honda. I believe GM is one of the biggest users of Mexican and Canadian vehicle and drive train assembly. Basically though, the auto industry is global and therefore can probably vary from time to time. Personally, I think a more relevant statistic might be where the vendors are located.
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